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What is "too far" for co-parenting? Question from the partner of a co--parent

amberintexas's picture
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Hi all,

I hope I am posting this to the right section.  I really need some advice.  I've been in an increasingly serious relationship for a little over three years with a man who is co-parenting a young child with his ex-GF.   I am not a parent myself, although I would like to become a mother and have been trying to get pregnant (which is a whole different saga but may be relevant).  I have tried to be understanding with my BF that his child always comes first---for example, being supportive and even encouraging of him moving to a home closer to where his ex lives with their child (she's the custodial or primary parent?  I'm just learning the language and may not have it right).  I also feel like I try to be accepting that they will be spending a lot of time together especially since the child is young---I know that most days he will be with his ex and their child for many hours.  However, this past week was the child's birthday and they (not sure whose idea it was) had decided to go rent a cabin out into the wilderness together...with a hot tub...just the three of them for two nights and three days.  I got upset about this and told my BF that these plans (which he went through with) really hurt my feelings. He tried to reassure me that they slept in different rooms of the cabin and that it's "absurd" for me to question if anything happened.  He says that I'm "just being insecure" and that he will always put the child first no matter what set/setting it "happens" to occur in.....AND that if I can't accept he's going to be taking trips/vacatiions like this increasingly as the years go by that will be a dealbreaker.  I have told him I feel that this trip went too far---this is the kind of a trip that a couple would take and it seems weird to me that they both are okay with this (I'm doubting that the ex is with anyone) and I think it also is going to increasingly confuse the kid as he gets older.   Really my question is---what are the boundaries of co-parenting?  When does co-parenting start crossing over into couple parenting?  I understand with covid things are turned upside down in terms of travel plans and parties and vacations....should I just get over this recent trip or should this be a "red flag" for me? I also know this is his (and her) first time co-parenting and they are trying really hard to "get it right" and I've read that the better the co-parenting relationship is, the better the kid does.....but when does co-parent become couple parenting? And it's probably obvious but I'm just feeling really alone and left out of all of this---like he's already got his family and I'm a third wheel.   THANK YOU ALL SO SO MUCH FOR ANY THOUGHTS OR ADVICE IN ADVANCE!!!

SteppedOut's picture

This is more than a red flag...it's a great big red firey explosion. Their weekend away is a big wtf hell no. 

Time to move on to someone that is actually available for a relationship with YOU. Do NOT have a baby with this man. 

shellpell's picture

This is way beyond co-parenting! This is still being i a relationship. Leave him. You deserve someone who puts you first.

Rumplestiltskin's picture

No....just NO! He is gaslighting you. Nothing about this is ok. Normally i would advise people to set boundaries but his treatment of you goes so far beyond ok that i think there is no hope of you and this guy having a normal relationship, and even if you do, once your eyes are opened to just how bad he has been treating you, i don't see how you could get past the resentment.

This is your life. You CAN come first! Even with a child, the child's *needs* come first. Food, clothing, shelter, health, education, and emotional security. NOT vacations with just mommy and daddy and baby and a fricking hot tub! Not the 3 of them spending hours (hours?!) per day together! Needs can be met by mom at mom's house and by dad at dad's house. Communication can be short, to the point, and involve logistics and planning only. I have coparented with boundaries for 10 years. I did not need my boyfriend to tell me to set boundaries with my ex because i set those boundaries. If i did not want the boundaries i would try to get back together with my ex.

Your BF has told you where you stand. Do not accept a life of scraps! I seriously wonder if he is living a double life or if he is just the world's worst boyfriend. RUN!!!

amberintexas's picture

I honestly didn't even know what that term meant until I looked it up recently and I immediately thought of my conversations with him.  He basically had me *almost* convinced about this whole thing that I was just being mean and standing in between him and his son....I nearly apologized for saying anything!  That's actually why I posted to the forum because I just wanted to hear what some other people have to say.  Well thank god for the feedback.  I totally agree that the resentment is going to be a huge issue for me because it's already there and we haven't actually broken up (but as of today I've stopped contacting him---I may just leave it that way unless there has to be some final conversation).  

ESMOD's picture

Get yourself immediately on birth control then get on a backup plan.. and back that up.  Do not have a baby with this man.  How on earth is he going to navigate his "primary family" and you and any new child? 

Coparenting does not mean spending hours together with your EX on a daily basis????? What the heck is he doing that for?  That is seriously messed up.

Coparenting does NOT mean joint birthday weekends in the woods (without you.. why couldn't his new partner be present... one that is so serious that he is thinking about having a child with that person???).

Co-parenting means generally that both adults have decided to try to work cooperatively to parent and raise their child.  They will mirror rules and expectations in each home (independently.. separately).  But it might mean that a "grounding" at one home can be continued at the other parent's home for example.

They will attend parent teacher conferences.. or discuss medical treatment options.. together.  

Now, they may even attend a birthday event at their Exes home.. but it would be a party setting.. with other guests. and CERTAINLY any new partners are welcome.

And.. you and he have the completely wrong idea about his child "always coming first"  NO.. to the HECK NO that is not right.

As his partner, you are a priority to him... you absolutely should come "first" at times.  Sure.. not all the time.. but his kid doesn't come first all the time either.  I mean.. kid wants chuckee cheese.. and you want to go to a less child centric place.  does his kid always get that pick?  What about riding shotgun in the car.. do you ride in the back (once the kid is legal in front seat)?  What if you and your BF have plans to go to a business dinner for you.. but his kid doesn't want to stay with the babysitter... does he get to ditch you?

Don't get me wrong.  His child is his number one obligation when they are a minor.  He created that life.. and is obligated to ensure that his needs are met.. and that he is raised properly.  But... number one priority?  You have a close family member pass ... does going to watch his kid's Tball practice get a higher priority over supporting you at your loved one's funeral???

This man is way to enmeshed with his EX.  If they are getting along so well... they should really try to get back together "for the number one priority" sake.. their child.

Sh413's picture

I couldn't even finish reading the entire post, I had to run to the comments no way is this ok! I feel awful that you would even consider this. They do not only not have to go on trips like this together they don't need to spend hours a week together. If he can't see this is not acceptable you have got to run not walk! 

hereiam's picture

 I know that most days he will be with his ex and their child for many hours.

However, this past week was the child's birthday and they (not sure whose idea it was) had decided to go rent a cabin out into the wilderness together...with a hot tub...just the three of them for two nights and three days.

I'm sorry, what? Surely, I have had too much wine and read that wrong.

Honey, that's not co-parenting.

He needs to remain single, and you need to bolt. And for God's sake, don't get pregnant by this jerk.

amberintexas's picture

Thank you all SO much for the feedback.  As I'm reading this I'm crying--but sometimes the truth hurts and it's so important for me to hear all of this.  One of my biggest strengths has always been undervaluing myself and allowing people to take advantage of me.....It takes a LOT for me to go "hold on that's not right" and it says a lot that it got this far.  He had actually mentioned this trip to me months ago and I felt upset but I didn't say anything.  It wasn't until it was approaching that I started to feel really annoyed and then I mentioned it to my Therapist who basically had the exact same reaction as all of you.  Now that it happened and he's not only unapologetic and instead saying that I should accept even more of the same......he's trying to spin it like I'm trying to get between him and his son--like by saying I'm upset about this trip that I'm trying to keep him from his son.  That I should actually be happy for him for getting to be with his son doing something fun???  I told him that I can think of literally 100s of other ways to celebrate a b-day that aren't offensive.  His response is "why do I need to check with you when I'm making b-day plans for my son?".  I can't decide if he's TOTALLY clueless bc he genuinely seems to think that this trip should be a non-issue OR if it is like gaslighting bc it seems so obviously hurtful.  I've always been amazed as he seems to have no ability to put himself in anyone else shoes or emphathize...  As I'm typing this and seeing the words it just makes me sick to see how I let myself be treated.  It's already been going on for way too long.   It really has to be the last straw.   I just need find the strength to stop seeing him and move forward--on my own.  It's so hard, especially since we have been trying to have a family---I think that getting stuck on that allowed me to put up with more BS than I normally would have.  Thank goodness I'm in therapy! Thank you all SO much for the feedback--as much as it hurts to hear I know in my gut you are all SO right.  Thank you all SO much---I can't tell you how much it helps to hear other people thoughts about this.  

hereiam's picture

You deserve better and will find it, once you let this jerk go. Be on your own for awhile, get to know YOU, and you will know what kind of partner you truly want and don't you dare settle for less.

This man has NO respect for you.

Picardy III's picture

Sad to say, you should probably also get tested for STDs.

People planning cabin and hot tub getaways with a former sexual partner - it's not "former" anymore.

Wicked stepmo.'s picture

He knows exactly what he is doing. How would he feel if you planned a weekend trip away with your ex, just as friends? It sounds like you were used as a pawn to make the ex jealous of losing him to another woman who was willing to have kids with him.

tog redux's picture

Please don't get pregnant with this guy. Even the most secure woman would not be okay with her BF spending a weekend at a cottage with a hot tub, with his ex.  That's not about his child, at all, it only serves to confuse the child.

Whatamidoing10's picture

Please get out NOW. This same exact thing happened to me. A BF of mine was going on trips with his ex and their child. Spoiler alert: He cheated on me with his ex and slept with her multiple times during our relationship. I'm not saying this is happening here, but he is at minimum still emotionally attached to her and is manipulating you into believing there's something wrong with you for calling out his obviously inappropriate behavior. Don't let him gaslight you. Gosh reading this made me so mad on your behalf, lol!

Whatamidoing10's picture

Also, more thoughts - the fact that he'd call you insecure and told you that this would be a dealbreaker for him? This guy is a grade A a**hole. That is the same exact stuff I heard from my exBF too. Guys like this just want to have their cake and eat it too. Well guess what? You're worth a heck of a lot more than that! He needs to take his selfish and sorry a** out of the dating market. I'm so, so sorry this happened to you.

amberintexas's picture

I said that to him actually--"you're trying to have your cake and eat it too" and he seemed clueless about what I meant!

Thanks SO much for all of the feedback and encouragement and kind words everyone.  It's especially helpful to hear about what co-parenting is/isn't as I'm realizing I've been totally brainwashed into thinking that meant he was with his ex all the time everyday doing anything (he would say bc she's the custodial parent, if he wants to be with the kid, he has to also be with her).  I really do wonder if they are still together.  They've been 'friends" for 10+ years.  The whole situation just sucks bc I'm realizing when I first met him the ex was being keeping him from the child, so that's likely what lead him to start encouraging me to start a family saying "you'd be a great mom" and being in my late 30s anyway I totally was vulnerable to that and then the idea of having a family grew to great importance in my mind, and it actually became a big weakness that allowed/lead me to overlook so many lies and BS out of desperation.  Now that he's with the child much more he seems WAY less invested in us having a family, so it's honestly just pathetic that I've kept it going as long as I have.  I think it's mostly just fear of being my age having to start over and still wanting a family but being back at square one, especially in the pandemic, how in the world do I even meet people?  I just have to think of all of the ways that I will be happier without him.....and that there's still hope for me to meet someone and have a family.  Thanks again everyone! This is the motivation I needed to end this relationship.  

Winterglow's picture

I had my twins at 42 and they were totally unplanned!

I suggest you send your selfish oaf of a bf back to his ex seeing as they get on so great together. You deserve so much better and he is not worth your time.

Whatamidoing10's picture

Girl, you are not pathetic. :( He is the not the man that he portrayed himself to be, and he is leaving you to pick up the pieces. Not okay. Not fair. Completely selfish. This is such a hard situation, especially since you guys were together for quite some time.

Maybe if he feels you're not fighting that situation and accepting it for what it is, he would be receptive. He also needs to understand what he's going to lose (an amazing gal who has been extraordinarily patient!) ..."You have every right to go on vacation with your exwife and child, but I don't feel comfortable with it. I am going to walk away until you stop. The commitment I've made to myself is that I'm going to get married and have kids. But you have told me that you are going to maintain this type of relationship with your ex. It would make me feel like I'm investing in a shaky situation if I were to stay. To honor the commitments I've made to myself, I cannot see you or talk to you any more, and I will be moving forward with another man who will be a loving partner and father to my children. Okay?" And then WALK. Don't talk to him. Don't call him. Don't text him. If he's not responsive - not the guy for you. 

amberintexas's picture

Well I don't love the situation I am in, but I love your comments and advice.  We have been together for a long time (this is the longest relationship I've had in ages) and it's hard to walk away especially at my age and in a pandemic when it's not so easy to meet people....I keep trying to think of excuses FOR him or things he maybe could say that would convince me to stay....I even asked him to read my original post here and tell me if I characterized anything incorrectly or if there's something I should have added to clarify the situation.  Not surprisingly, he refused and says he wants nothing to do with anyone saying how he should be co-parenting.  He's always been super defensive about his co-parenting which I've always found strange bc I would think if I were new to something SO important I would want to learn as much as possible about it.   He still is saying it's "absurd" for me to even consider him being back with his ex, that their time together is completely focused on the child--that he has to be around her (including in a hot tub in the woods) bc she is the custodial parent (not sure if that's the right word--but she has primary custody legally) so wherever the kid goes, she basically has to go, and if he wants to spend time with the kid she comes with him.  Regardless of if something is going on romantically/sexually with them---the 1000s of hours the three spend together now topped by the "camping" trip topped by his seeming inability to empathize with how I feel topped by his saying it's a "dealbreaker" if I can't accept more of this....well it all adds up to me saying enough is enough.  I had almost been brainwashed but thank god for this forum and the 100% clear feedback everyone has given me.  Honestly, it surprises me there's no disagreement, not by a single person posting, but that really tells me how far this has gone.  

I love the way you put it---that I've made a committment to myself and I need to honor that.  I really do want to find a good person to have a healthy relationship with and hopefully have a child with....and posts here and other stories I have heard also are giving me some hope that that is still possible at my age.  Heck, eventually I may just even gain the confidence (and money would be another thing I'd have to gain;) to have a child on my own through the miracles of science.  I have walked away (as of last night), and I'm just entering the avoiding talking to him or texting him....it's really tough especially with the "loose ends" 3+ years leads to (he owes me $$$ in particular that is bothering me) but I'm trying to figure out ways to manage that with the least contact possible.  Thank you so much for your comments and encouragement!!

Winterglow's picture

WTF!? If you won't tolerate him screwing his ex, it's a deal breaker for him?? Who TF does he think he is?! 

Whatamidoing10's picture

I hear you there, it can be SO so hard and heartbreaking. This year has just been very hard in general...

The fact that he's getting defensive might mean that he doesn't feel accepted and respected for who he is as a parent...it could also mean he's trying to redirect you from the truth that something inappropriate is going on, which was my initial gut reaction when I read this lol, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt here for a moment...

What stands out to me here is that he's not even showing you empathy and trying to offer a compromise...so frustrating and not okay...

I don't know if there's anything other than him not doing these trips that would be acceptable to you. But....If you really love him, and this isn't his usual response to conflict and he's shown his ability to emphathize with you in other situations, the only other thing that comes to mind is maybe telling him you would feel happy to hear some alternatives that he can think of. These alternatives should *honor your feelings of discomfort with the current situation*. If he feels it's a problem that can be solved and he's in the driver seat of how it gets solved, that could make a difference (it might not)...all of this depends on YOU though and what YOU need. E.g. What if you were to go on these trips with them, and you and him stayed in a separate space, but met up with his child/her for timeboxed activities? I know some remarried couples do this, but this may not apply to your situation if you don't feel this is acceptable. The BM in my situation is terrible so I personally couldn't, but everyone has their own way of doing things.

If he's still not willing to compromise, good riddance to him...again, this really comes down to you, if you know you can't compromise, then you've done what you need to do by telling him how you feel and doing what's best for you! it can be easier said than done. 

A long time ago, I went to a therapist after an awful breakup...and she encouraged me to start asking the questions, "What am I getting from this situation? Am I loving myself first before this man, and then sharing my love with him?" It really stuck with me. Conflict is inevitable of course. No one's perfect. And some battles just aren't worth fighting. But he needs to be able to work with you.

No matter what happens - you will get through this!!! Choose yourself first. :) 

Peach's picture

Thank your lucky stars that you didn't get pregnant.  Gaslighting is the right word.  He is trying to convince you that something is right when it is very wrong.  The ex is controlling him, and he is letting her.  I guarantee you that they have some type of physical/emotional relationship going.  No one goes on vacation together to a cabin in the woods like that.  It is ludicrous.  Value yourself - cut him loose.  If he had balls, he would get a parenting plan and see his kid out from under the eye of his ex.  The problem is that she is not really his ex.

The_Upgrade's picture

When he said “co-parenting” he really meant “open relationship”. Then he gets upset at you when you had a problem with co-parenting when you really had a problem being the spare wheel in an open relationship. 

ndc's picture

What you have described is not normal co-parenting by any stretch of the imagination. My DH has a great co-parenting relationship with BM. They see each other in passing maybe once or twice a month and text once or twice a week at most, all skid and mostly logistics related.  If he had the contact with BM that your boyfriend has with his ex, I'd be long gone.

Harry's picture

He is still having a relationship with the ex and you.  If you want to stay then. No vacation together. No spraying at her house.  He drops off child and picks up. With no contact with the ex.   Vacations are you him and child

onky communication between the two of them is email what he saves , or it's goes to your phone also. 

I believe he is not going to cut contact with the ex.  So you better start getting an exit plan in place . Start saving money in your own account. Start looking for a place to live.  You are not the first being in this type of relationship.  I could never do it. Personally.  Once they break up, there are broken up.  Only have contact that is a must. 
with the number of divorce people with kids. Most places understand. Like schools, 

Rags's picture

Regardless of kid biology.

The death knell of any marriage is putting kids, or anything or anyone else, above the adult relationship and the partners in that relationship.

Kids are the top relationship responsibility, but not the top priority.

 

Picardy III's picture

Coparenting joint presence, IMO:

Necessary: ER visits, meetings regarding serious health or behavioral issues.

Fine: Parent-teacher meetings, neutral-location birthday parties and graduations (only with other SOs, family, friends), civil interaction but separate seating at kid spectator events.

Ok IF both parents are sane and have moved on: birthday parties and graduations at each others' homes (with other family, friends, SOs), occasional joint seating at kid events IF not alone.

Everything else: no.

BethAnne's picture

This story sounds familiar. Back when my husband and BM were younger (and I was not on the scene) my husband was living with another woman in a neighboring city and would then go and visit BM on weekends to "see his daugther". He was sleeping with them both. Bm knew (according to my husband) but was ok with it because it felt exciting....The other woman did not know what was going on. Fortunately for me my husband has matured a lot since those days. 

Make sure you get a full sexual health screen and use barrier protection if you do have sex with him again.

Dogmom1321's picture

Do NOT fall for this - leave him! And please, do not have this man's baby. He should in NO WAY shape or form, be "hanging out" with BM. No reason for him to even step foot in her house. He gets HIS custody time and she gets hers. It is SEPARATE. The only thing they should be doing together is making decisions. This can be done via email, text, calls, etc. NO NEED to do in person. It should strictly be about, school, health, or the general well-being of the child. He is totally trying to pull a fast one on you. RUN. 

BethAnne's picture

The reasons this man would legally not be able to see his child without supervision would be if he was a potential threat to the child's wellbeing. It would have to be something pretty bad to have that as a legal requirement. Even then it is usual that a third party (not the other parent) would do the supervising and unless things were super super bad there would often be a plan to work towards him having un-supervised visits with his child. 

Now if by saying that he cannot see his kid without the mother being present he really means that he hasn't established any parental rights through the court or established a formal custody agreement then that just adds further proof to the fact that this man has no interest in moving on from his ex. He is happy to run to her beck and call with no plans for fully moving on from his relationship or fully committing to being a divorced father. He wants to play happy families while getting to bed whomever he wants. 

amberintexas's picture

It's true it's complicated as to why their set-up is how it is.  I'm not sure of the full story but I'm very doubtful that he did anything that ever threatened the child's wellbeing.  To give him some credit, my impression is she kept him away from the kid and immediately lawyered up after the kids birth to try to get full custody (they were not on good terms, obviously, at that time).  I'm very curious as to why she did that and I've only heard his side as he keeps me as far as possible from all of this.  As time went by and he pushed to be present more and more in the kid's life and although she remains the primary legal guardian of the child she has become much more flexible with allowing him to see the kid and even spend time alone with the kid.  Honestly, I have been really impressed with his committment to be a part of the child's life despite all of her manuevering to keep him away.  My understanding, though, is that she still legally has the upper hand (but I'm not sure of the details) and she has the resources at any time (much more than he does) to yank away the tiny rights he has if he so much as annoys her.  Part of the deal is that he has been very slow about getting his life together enough to have the kid over at his place...but on the flip side I think she's very attached to the kid and doesn't want the kid away for more than a few hours.  Overall, my impression is that she has him wrapped around her finger....although when I've said that to him he likes to insist he's more in charge than I realize.  So I have no idea what the actual dynamics are.  At first his primary goal was to get joint custody, but as the years have gone by and they seem to be getting along great (too great IMO) he seems to have lost interest in this and seems fine with their current arrangement even if that means it's basically the three of them most of the time.....I just wish I knew what the actual story is but he keeps me out of all of it, even though we've been together for years.  In part, I blame myself bc a long time ago I told him I wasn't interested in being a step parent but the key part of that statement that followed was that I was most interested in being a parent....ever since I said that though he's used that as a reason to keep me away even though I've tried to correct what I said and emphasize I really would like to spend time with him and his child.  So much drama.....I had no idea what I was getting involved in. 

Winterglow's picture

"immediately lawyered up after the kids birth to try to get full custody"

So there's a court order then? If so, then she cannot take any of his visitation rights away from him. He can go after her for violating the CO if she refuses to give the child up during his court-ordered visitation time. Also, he can go back to court to have the order amended/altered/adapted. It's not uncommon for parents to have 50-50 these days. He doesn't have to grovel if he doesn't want to.

If I were in your shoes, I'd be very bothered that he wouldn't be straight with me about the child visitation stuff (nor about the rest). Why doesn't he trust you? If he doesn't trust youi then why does he keep you around? (Just playing devil's advocate there.)

At the very least, he should let you read the court order.

And if there is no court order then it's time he went and got one to protect his rights concerning his child and stopped sucking up to his ex for the crumbs she throws him. Doesn't he see that she totally runs the show and his life?

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I am in a situation now that started similar to yours. My SO had the kids with him almost every day, paid child support, and it was the BM who would "visit" the kids at his house. Nearly every day. He never gave me a straight answer as to why they had this arrangement or why he was paying for it. I got "She's just not very maternal so they don't sleep there." "There's a problem with her husband." The kids would rather just stay here and have us all together." Idk what the real reason was.

I put my foot down and told him i wasn't coming over if BM treated the place like she lived there, too. She would cook in his kitchen, walk in and out as she pleased, hang out for hours. So he stopped it.

But then he started holding it over my head that i made him change. It was me coming between him and his kids by insisting i wouldn't move in without a custody schedule. His 9-year-old son also still coslept and after having him see me naked several times i told him i wouldn't sleep there unless that changed. Now i'm the double bad guy.

His resentment started to come out in other ways too, like seeking attention online from other women. He wanted to go to bars and play pool until closing time and wanted me to watch the kids since BM wasn't there. Finally we are, i think, done. It was too much to try to change. His baseline was too far from what i could tolerate. It sounds like your SO's baseline is also too far from livable. Also, your SO doesn't seem willing to change at all. Please move forward knowing this was not your fault. You tried. I tried. We will have better luck next time because we will be smarter and make better choices! 

Sotheysay's picture

He is sleeping with her in a relationship with her and you are the side peice sorry but that's the truth they are a family if she was truly an ex he was co parenting with they would not spend hours together or go on vacations alone no matter how young the child is 

Sandybeaches's picture

This post is a few months old but someone just brought it to the front... I am hoping by now you have packed your bags and your vacationing by yourself somewhere!!!  

Almost everything you said was a red flag and this guy knows it too!!  No one co-parents like this.  

He told you, you would never be first, he also told you that his ex is before you too.  He mentions that if YOU can't accept it, it is a deal breaker.  This should all be a deal breaker for you!!  I am sorry very sorry but his man is playing you.  Please do not tie yourself to this situation by having a baby with him!!!