Boundary question
Hi to all of you angels who have saved my sanity with these forums!
Quick version: married 7 months, BS 18,16 BD 12 and SS 11,8 (plus SD24,22, SS21 all out of house)
Question about boundaries: Last night at our dinner date, DH's phone was blowing up. I made a comment that someone really wanted to talk to him. I didn't look at his phone and couldn't possibly have seen it anyway. He says its the group chat/text with his ex-wife2 and their kids 24,22,21. He proceeds to rant about how he can't control it and it's not his fault and he's told them not to include him, etc.
I was just sitting there dumbfounded bc I hadn't said a word. In the past we've discussed it, not fighting but have been clear that I think it's disrespectful to me and makes me feel like an outsider. That I don't see why he can't just have a group text with his kids minus ex2.
Backstory: ALL he could talk about when we first met was how great ex2 was. Invited her to dinner at his house, invited her to parties at his place when we first started dating. It was like watching a car crash at first, you can't help but watch (my fault). Anyway, I eventually questioned him about it and he said he was just trying to be a good guy and show me that he didn't hate her and that it was best for the kids (youngest of which was 18 at the time). (Although the only nice thing he's ever said about ex3 is that she types fast lol). They've remained enmeshed in all kinds of ways. She holds the mortagage to the property he is pouring money into, and property is held in trust for their three adult kids. They were financailly enmeshed in other ways and he has slowly disentangled that, or is working on it. She moved out of state last year and lives with her SO and she doesn't have any romantic feelings for him.
I don't think he's in love with her, but it's just odd to me. Their kids are grown. I'm not sure why they are all in a group text. They still function as THE family. He once told me (while dating) that they were his real family, that he had never been a family with ex3 (despite having SS11, SS8 together). When I pointed this out to him last night, he said that was before we were married and now I'm his family.
Wow there are 50 stories going on right here and too much backstory, but my question is:
Is it out of line/ unusual/ odd that he carries on this type of relationship with ex2 and adult kids as if they are a family?
This turned into an argument that wasn't even about the text (which does irritate me bc if he told me something bothered him and I had the ability to change it, I would. I don't understand why he doesn't) Ultimately I feel like everyone is in line ahead of me, so this just adds fuel to the fire.
Sorry, that was long. There's just so much to this dumpster fire!
Does he respond/participate
Does he respond/participate in these group texts?
I'm not sure, I haven't
I'm not sure, I haven't looked at his phone. He talks to his kids several times a week if not every day...so it's not like it's the only communication he has with them and he needs/wants to hang on to that...
Extremely odd
But good news is she moved out of state. Did she leave kids with him? Financially enmeshed? Is he poring maritial funds into the house that will go to his kids? You might want to seperate financials.
I think it's weird. And if
I think it's weird. And if they keep adding him, he can simply turn off notifications for the group text and ignore it. If they are all talking everyday about life and what's up, then that's a little too comfy for my taste. But then again, I also am with someone who has had a really hard time with boundaries with his 'family' for many of the same reasons I suspect yours does too. I long for the day when they can figure out that divorce means that family ends.
Why can't he just tell them,
Why can't he just tell them, "Take me out of the group" or as you said, turn it off. I suspect because he doesn't WANT to...he's giving me the story I want to hear (I don't ask for this) yet continues what he wants. Cake and eating it too.
But yes, divorce to me means we don't function as a family any more. I haven't heard from my ex in 8 months, and that was just about a summer schedule. So yes, it's possible. He has his life, I have mine. We both love and take care of our kids. But we don't have to share pictures and stories in a group text...
Why can't he just tell them
Why can't he just tell them
THAT is the question. Why can't he and why doesn't he?
Frankly, he is waaaaay too involved with ex#2. I find it sad that you don't THINK he's in love with her and married him anyway. Hon, why would you marry someone if there was any possibility he was still in love with her???
I have no idea (why I married
I have no idea (why I married him). That's a ridiculous answer. Because he's nice to me and my 17 year marriage was so bad that I didn't know what it was like to have someone be kind? I dated around before him but..
At least I didn't legally marry him. He's pushing and last night I told him that ship had sailed. This is too big a mess to tie myself to legally.
If I tell him to cut ties (get out of the group), he'll pull the "jealous" or "controlling" card. I hate that game. If I have a boundary, that makes me jealous and insecure.
Ex3 used to text incessantly. We'd be sitting on the couch and I could see his phone sometimes. Things that were way too cozy and bordering on flirtatious. Lots of info about her personal life. I told him he had to put an end to it. So he agreed, blocked her and just emails, although I think he goes back and forth and there's more communication than he lets on.
He once told me he could have them back if he wanted (he was trying to make the point he doesn't want them bc if he did he would be able to). Starting to think I should give him the chance to try...ha
Wow this guy has marriages
Wow this guy has marriages and kids all over the place.
I assume x1 - no kids?
Then ex2 - his main family.
Ex3 - 2 kids but hates ex wife.
Now you?
My guess is that Ex3 had the same issues. She 'fixed' it by creating a new family only that didn't work - obviously. So she bailed and then along came you.
This time it's different though right? He is a great guy. All the other wives were at fault. He shows you this dog and pony show, got you hooked now he is back to the same old bullshit.
I have no idea where you go from here. But thought it may be helpful to see the picture on the wall. I could be wrong and hope I am. But he doesn't seem to be all in when it comes to your relationship.
You nailed it.
You nailed it.
(And actually there is a kid (31) from ex1 but I've never met her bc she doesn't speak to him...)
That is what I've come to wonder, that ex3 had the boys "accidentally" bc she wanted him to be a family with her but he was wrapped up in ex2 family and that didn't work out. He's said she's (ex3)crazy, but I've always wondered if really she was driven crazy by the situation. I can see how it would happen. Just can't let it happen to me. (And there will be NO children from/by me! Ever.)
It's like I can see the picture on the wall, but haven't quite wrapped my head around it. Even I can't believe myself...
Thank you for holding up the picture for me. It helps. I need it..
Kids are 24, 22, 21 and all
Kids are 24, 22, 21 and all out of state but he has been sole supporter of all and still is to some degree (college tuition, car insurance, cars, phone, "allowance" in college(??), etc.)
The financial enmeshment: he was shielding his assets so put property into trust for his kids with her, she took the mortgage and he was paying her monthly for it. Also some equipment for it, etc. Until last December he was paying her back child support and interest on it (bc he had given her a business in lieu of child support and they had a legal document but did not send it through family court so years later she sued him for child support during that time plus interests...to the tune of somewhere bw 100-250k- I never could get a real answer. I told him to clean it up so he made her a deal for a lump sum and they sent it through family court). All kinds of things over the years.
He is not providing any money to me. At all. His monthly income is 7x mine. He moved into my house (and brought along his two kids which is now almost half time bc it's in the city near where BM and boys live and more convenient to take them to school when he has them), I pay my own mortgage, bills, car, everything. He continues to build his hobby farm (for a sport) and pour money into it to pass on to three oldest kids. We have nothing joint. He offered to venmo me 1300/month after we first got married. I was so offended (given his income and the fact that he and each of his previous 3 wives had much nicer homes, fully funded by him of course). I'm being taken for a ride. The more I type and think the stupider I feel...he's a nice guy. He's good to me and my kids. But I feel a bit humiliated the more I think about it...
I'm sorry, but he doesn't
I'm sorry, but he doesn't sound that "nice" to me. He sounds like someone that wants people to think he is though and maybe even says it so many times you start to believe it. Or maybe he is just nice to some ex-wives, but not all and certainly not his current wife.
Bleh.
By the time a guy gets to the 4th wife
He may not have much left. And who was he shielding his assets from? Did Ex2 get the mortage? sorry I am having trouble following all this. Not certain why you turned down the 1300, instead of countering
Kinda want to hug you right
Kinda want to hug you right now. So sorry you're feeling all this.
Thank you, I needed that
Thank you, I needed that
Some people are "collectors".
Some people are "collectors". Once they have collected someone, even a former spouse, they hang on to them like a piece of their collection.
You may be dealing with a collector as far as your SO is concered. None of his aging collection should interfere with you and your marriage being his priority. If his collection is interfereing... it is time to give him clarity that this is no longer acceptable and it needs to stop NOW.
Good luck.
In a marraige, if you are not first to your partner, you are last. Minor kids are the top relationship responsibility but never take priority over the partner or marriage. Adult kids don't rate and for damned sure X's are not even on the map as far a priority.
Oh my this is so true, he is
Oh my this is so true, he is definitely a collector. I've even said that before! Exwives, ex girlfriends, everything. He is quite jealous of me (not anything I've ever done but if a man speaks to me) yet he hangs on to everyone- social media, contacts in phone, etc. (Including ex2's brother and invites him to all parties, gatherings, kids bdays, everything. Even the two younger kids who he's not an uncle to...go figure)
He opened an instagram account and followed the last woman he dated long term before me. I asked him about it and he said he didn't do it, it just automatically did it and he has no idea how to control it. Um, really??? But after I brought it up he magically figured out how to unfollow her. Same woman he opened his facebook at dinner to show me something and her video post was playing. He said it just "came on" and unfriended her when I got mad. This was a couple years ago. And she was smart enough and young and pretty enough not to get wrapped up with him.
Ok at this point I'm just typing because it helps me see how crazy this all is. Seems I need to figure out what's going on with/inside me that I'd accept this or settle for this.
Your responses are always so helpful and clarifying. Thank you.
Well, just hold up a minute
Well, just hold up a minute here. He offered to contribute $1300, but you turned it down. Why? I know no one likes to talk about money and it seems vulgar, but at the same time, you aren't being "taken for a ride" if he offered to contribute, right? If you didn't think it was enough money, that's another discussion.
On this ex thing...he says he doesn't want to be part of it and you don't want him to be part of it. That's the point you start from. So after you negotiate his contribution to the household, why not negotiate this too? Ask him if he could just communicate with his kids. Remind him that he said he doesn't want to do the group chat so he's only losing something that doesn't matter to him anyway, but it does make you feel awkward that he still talks regularly to his ex.
If he's not telling you the truth (that group chats don't matter to him), this is where it will show.
When you have this chat, make sure YOU don't ramp it up into a fight at all -- stay very calm while you talk about it. If he turns into a fight, then you know he's probably not being honest about why he's participating in group chats he says he doesn't want. That's the time to say, "You're fighting with me about something you said you don't even want. What's the truth? Why do these group chats matter to you?" Then it becomes another discussion.
I know you feel like a chump. I don't blame you. I often feel that way in my marriage when my difficult SD comes into play. But before you blow this up into him taking you for a financial ride and still carrying a flame for an ex, slow down and see if you can get to the bottom of it. It might not be as bad as that. Remember how nuanced human emotions are. Remember how bad men are at getting in touch with their real feelings and expressing them. And on top of that there are your feelings coloring how you view this.
I would be interested in you exploring (gently, casually) with him how his 3rd marriage went wrong and if any of this was part of what ended it. That would probably be telling.
Great advice/points, all of
Great advice/points, all of them.
There are so many discussions that we need to have. As you said, calmly and rationally and just really get to the bottom of things. He is the most confrontation-adverse person I have ever seen in my life (regarding personal issues, no problem with it professionally). "I hate drama" is what I hear a lot.
I think at the bottom of it I don't trust him to be honest. I think he lies to avoid confrontation so at this point I don't really believe anything he says.
And I want him to want what I want, which isn't possible (to make that happen). To put me first, to create a household together and not offer to venmo me a random amount of money.
We woke up this morning, went to the gym together and it's like nothing ever happened. Guess we're both good pretenders. I need to get my thoughts together, decide what I want, and then as you said, calmly lay it out.
My husband is the sole income earner
when he was married to exwife and just a manager/vp after they married as worked at same place and she was such a crap staff member with poor work ethic and many mistakes and it was a bad image on him so he asked if she wanted to be a stay at home wife and gave her $2000 spending money per month which was more than what she was earning
hubby paid all bills in the house and trips etc, she regularly maxed their joint credit card (in his mind they’re a married couple so joint credit card was a given).
when we got married it was a bit difficult opening a bank acct as i’m a foreigner and there are strict rules and you need to be vetted or recommended by a premium client (which my hubby was thanks to his masisve salary)
early last yr i finally opened a bank account in my name hubby initiated transferred 3500 per month (savings for when i move back to my country as we intend to have our kids school there) but his 2 adult kids were getting $1000 each allowance and sd14 got child support sent to her mum (500 per month) and so i asked hubby that he intends to retire early but no savings was set up for our kids so he agreed to send more money to me each month because whilst he has a good income, its smart to have money kept for our kids just incase since exwife is a greedy pig and using hey typical my 1 minor kid is the only kid hubby should care about and then has eldest sd guilt hubby that she supports sd14 too so hubby needs to continue with the allowance
despite all this hubby pays all bills even before i opened my bank account (3 yrs after marrying hubby and moving overseas) so if i needed to get anything expensive or say buy tickets for our yearly trip to my country i would always tell hubby and had his credit card details to do the purchase etc.
In my case I suspect hubby is still traumatised by the crap exwife pulled on him and stealing money from his personal savings acct which in their country it was illegal for her to hack and steal everything so for now its separate.
Once hubby has cut off the adult kids maybe thats something i will bring up.
in your case i do not agree that your husband lives in your home with 2skids but doesn’t contribute anything financially. I don’t know the specifics of what he earns monthly but in my case i get about 21% of his monthly salary, but hubby is buying diapers, formula, meat from the butcher (i normally do online ordering for our usual groceries), he’s paying all utilities, home loan and car loans too.
Any spousal visa or long term visa costs he pays and any trips to visit home and see my dad with the kids every year and hubby comes on these trips, hubby also buys a ticket yearly for my dad to fly over which is about $3000 so it works out ok for me
i didn’t like initially getting only slightly more than what he paid exwife when they were married and she didn’t do any housework or nurturing of the kids. I do everything here and home cater his family gatherings and parties at our home or outside so yeah i told him it felt real unfair. After sulking for 2 days he reflected and said he agreed with what i said, he accused me of being greedy but yet adult sd22 guilting daddy and telling him he better not cut her off as she helps financially support her sister isn’t? Especially when hubby already pays mandated child support to cover basic necessities that court ordered (they don’t live a rich life, neither do we, we still savw money and spend wisely), but skids spend money on useless wants/crap and guilt daddy to fund it so why shouldn’t i do the same for basic things i feel me and our kids should get too. Its not our fault his kids with ex aren’t saving money but wasting it
Dream marriage
You support him and he supports his EX and kids. Looks a little one sided. If he has money to support the EX he has money to support you. If you don’t want support, then that money should go into a vacation fund for theTWO and only the TWO of you
A little
The group text I dont think is strange. But at dinner he should be muting the convo a minimum.
The pouring money into a property in only her name is insane...doesnt matter if it's meant for the kids. I'd tell him to get his name on it as well or the money tree stops. That to me is insane.