If no contact becomes permanent
I have a question for others based upon reading I have doing on StepTalk. In my reading, I have noticed that some people have had adult SC go no contact for various lengths of time, from months to years. For most who have posted, the experience has been considered a postive, a relief, except as it concerns sadness to the biological parent.
If the biological parent put the marriage first, expectations for respect were outlined to the SC, and the SC went no contact permanently (until the biological parent died or the SC died) would you regret not tolerating the SC's toxicity in order to have maintained the relationship, any relationship, as difficult as it was?
I am very lucky in that my DH has put our marriage first. He outlined expectations for respect to my SD and SSIL. As a consequence, we have heard from neither of them. My DH says he is too old for their games. He intends to enjoy the time he has left being happy with his new wife (me). That sounds absolutely wonderful until my fears have me envisioning him on his death bed, having not spoken to or having seen his daughter in years. He says that if that happens, he will wonder what was wrong with SD and SSIL, not blame himself or me. That sounds wise and rational. My worry is that when the rubber hits the road, if SD dies unexpectedly in an accident, or DH is diagnosed with an illness that will sap his life away before SD and SSIL see fit to bother with us again, will all the wise and rational thoughts look empty compared to the loss of something that can never be redeemed - shared time together?
Personally I have not chosen
Personally I have not chosen to disengage. It really annoys me that my DH is ignored by eldest SD49 ( until she wants something) . Then it is I love you Dad. When I first met DH I assumed that he wasn’t invited for Christmas or other celebrations because BM would be there. Then I found she too was being shunned. When DH’s mother died BM was left sitting at the funeral on her own. Neither her children or grandchildren sat with her. It just looks like they are so absorbed in themselves they don’t notice anyone else’s pain. DH went over and spoke to her when I pointed out how she was being treated.
I am not sure if DH is shunned because he has remarried for the third time or they really just couldn’t care anyway. That is why I was so annoyed when DH 49 did come around asking about her inheritance.
DH thinks she is likely to turn particularly nasty if something does happen both to me and to DH’s second lot of skids to BM2. I am even contemplating whether it would be appropriate for me to have my own private funeral ( should the worst happen) and leave SD49 to organise a family one.
I am sad to learn, Wilheim,
I am sad to learn, Wilheim, that your SD49, and others, don't seem to have much use for their elders. I have seen that in the manufactured home community in which I live with other elderly people so apparently this is not unique. Maybe a small portion of getting no contact involves adult children being self-absorbed, or simply involved with things that are more interesting than we are. However, at least in our case, I believe SD and SSIL are withdrawing because we, as a couple, have not been compliant to how they wanted things to go. I think that we were both supposed to agree with outlandish accusations and apologize for ways they felt each of us had "f-d up." That didn't happen. Instead, my DH listed ways he felt ignored, listed ways he felt I had been treated unequally and stated that unequal treatment of me wasn't right. That letter, which listed ways he felt ignored, got him....ignored.
We love our DHs and it hurts to see them treated poorly, as if their feelings do not matter. I understand not wanting to share a funeral with a room full of people who seemed to have little use for your DH when he was alive. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes if that came to pass. I suppose that I would feel the lucky one for, no matter how fondly they remembered DH after his passing, I would have been the one to share the best thing of all, his presence when he was alive. No amount of callousness on their part could take that time away from me.
In your thinking you are
In your thinking you are forgetting that you can not control otheer people. If they choose to ignore their father and their father holds them to standards that most normal people hold, that's on them and it will be on them to carry any regret. Did he say I never want to see you again to them, or did he say, unitl you can treat my wife and I and our marriage with the respect it deserves, you aren't welcome. Those are two different lines in the sand.
I also have a DH that drew that line in the sand with his kids and 3 of them don't have anything to do with him. That's on them. Its an odd thing to carry with you, the knowledge that you are the "choosen one" but isn't that what being a spouse should be in the first place? I choose my DH and put up with a ton of crap from BM and the skids but did not tolerate my bios and family giving him any crap and they didn't. (not counting the average teenage mouthy that we both got) We make choices to hold boundaries and its okay that DH is holding boundaries too.
Enjoy life to the fullest with him. Life isn't over until its over and who knows, they might reach out before then but if they don't, its on them. You had nothing to do with it. The toxicity was there before you came on the scene and any other woman that came along would have been dealt the same dish of toxic.
My DH wrote to SD listing
My DH wrote to SD listing ways in which he felt I was being treated unequally and told SD that neither she nor SSIL should send him gifts or even well-wishes unless they were willing to send gifts and well-wishes to me also. He did NOT tell them not to contact him or me.
I am not forgetting that I cannot control other people. I am considering my own options. One option is to apologize to SD and SSIL for whatever it is they think I have done wrong. If they think of something else I have done wrong, I can eat dirt then too. I can worship at their altar, proclaim their superior wisdom, my own inferiority, and listen with rapt attention as they ennummerate my supposed inadequacies and mistakes in life. Like a hard core politician, I can compromise my rigorous intergrity for the benefit of getting a softer deal for my district's beloved constituent, my DH, from these difficult rulers of a distant colony, SD and SSIL.
I read your response to my DH and he liked your last paragraph the best. He fully agrees that I had nothing to do with it and that another woman would have been dealt the same dish. I never wanted to be a "chosen one." I had hoped that we could all be "chosen ones," in our own right, one not loved MORE than another as if love were a limited commodity, but loved in different ways and having different roles. I had no desire or inclination to compete for top place in a man's heart with his child or children. I feel there should be room enough for both. However, I am learning that this vying for top place is common among stepfamilies. *sigh* Yes, it feels odd, Survivingstephell. However, I am happy that, pushed against a wall, my DH seems to have picked his marriage and hence, me.
So if any woman would have
So if any woman would have been treated the same, why would you want to apologize to SD and SSIL? For what - existing? That will just give them the pleasure of knowing they can get to you, and the silent punishing they are doing will get you to cave. And they will keep doing it.
What they really need to see is boundaries - that their poor behavior is having no effect on you. Live your life; you can't control toxic adult behavior.
Regret?
"-- would you regret not tolerating the SC's toxicity in order to have maintained the relationship, any relationship, as difficult as it was?"
No. I don't regret something that I had nothing to do with in the first place - something that began years before I entered the picture. I do not regret that I have had no contact with SD in 8 years. I am worthy of mutual respect. If a person can not give this, no matter who they are, why would I give up my own happiness so I could be subjected to continued emotional abuse? At the end of my life I would regret it a heck of a lot more if I gave up quality of my own life for someone who had so little regard for me. DH could have easily visited SD, and he hasn't. I'm sure he regrets it but that's on him and SD - not me.
Your post got me thinking,
Your post got me thinking, sandye21. I think you made a powerful point when you said, "At the end of my life I would regret it a heck of a lot more if I gave up quality of my own life for someone who had so little regard for me." You asked, "...why would I give up my own happiness so I could be subjected to continued emotional abuse." I have given up at least 2 relationships in my life that I felt were subjecting me to continued emotional abuse. There came a point in time when enough was enough and I felt I had to leave. I suppose that could happen not just in a romantic relationship but in one which had an impact on my day to day life at home and on my sense of self respect. If I reached a point of "enough is enough," I might reach a point when I felt I needed to remove myself from my marriage. Some people on StepTalk seem to have already reached the point where they see no other reasonable chance at happiness aside from leaving. In the end, that would be more emotional pain, for me and for DH, than no contact. Thanks for your thoughts.
In my case I am NOW thankful
In my case I am NOW thankful no contact became permanent.
My dh & I have been married for 14 years. dh has 3 adult kids. sd33, sd31, ss26. We have no contact with sd31 for 10 years and no contact with ss26 (this is his 3rd estrangement) for around 3 years now. I think the oldest sd33 only hangs around hoping for an inheritance.
My husband & I have bent over backwards trying to have a relationship with these self absorbed offspring. Now, I thank my lucky stars I am not having to deal with at least two of these haters. Why chase people who don't even like you?
I do feel bad for my dh but I can not make people love him or love me and now I am to the point that they are DEAD to me and I told my dh just that. He replied "well please remember the prodical son". I realize my words hurt him but apparnently I just don't care as my reply back was "the prodical son was repentant and said he was not worthly to be call his fathers son and was willing to become one of the hired hands". I believe I would welcome my dh children if the were repentant but to just open my doors to toxic haters is just stupid and I am done playing with stupid.
It sounds like you feel like
It sounds like you feel like I do when you say that you feel bad for your dh. However, you are further down this road than I am because you say that you and DH have bent over backwards to have a relationship with your SC. I feel that bending over backwards and putting up with outrageous accusations is what it would take. It is informative to hear from someone who has tried this route and found that it too is a dead end road to familial peace and happiness. Sounds like I'd better not put my back out trying to bend over backwards when it won't, as you rightly note, "make people love him or love me." It is just sad to me that stepchildren would seemingly rather try cut a new person out of their dad's life or choose to go no contact than try to work out any adjustment or look for the good in a stepparent.
I’ve never spoken to my
I’ve never spoken to my husbands daughter, I have no idea what her voice sounds like. She’s still a minor, 15, and DH has only met her in person a handful of times. She’s been alienated the vast majority of her life, and initially I felt sorry for her & hoped DH could have a relationship someday.
Last year she reached out & DH was ecstatic, only to find out she was trying to hit him up for money, and not a small sum! I know her mother put her up to it, but at her age she’s old enough to know what she’s doing. DH declined to pay & hasn’t spoken to her since.
If I never in my life meet this kid or even hear her voice, it won’t bother me in the slightest. She is her mother’s daughter & I have zero room for that drama & BS in my life.
Luckily DH agrees (I’ve never told him how I actually feel about his daughter, just try to support him as best I can). He’s told me he’s not going to chase ghosts or be used as an ATM, and his priority is here with me, the boys, and our baby on the way.
There is a part of me that actually hopes she stays away. I don’t see how at this point he will ever be able to have a normal/healthy father daughter relationship with her, he’s missed out on her entire life to date, with no end in sight. Luckily again, she lives nowhere close to us (we’re in Scotland & she’s in Germany), and I would draw very hard boundaries at welcoming a stranger into my home at any point if she suddenly decided she wanted to ‘visit daddy’.
That was a huge rant haha, I rarely talk about her in person & it feels good to get it all out!
Monkeysee, I am glad it felt
Monkeysee, I am glad it felt good to talk about your situation a bit. This does seem like a relatively safe place to do that and I know that in just the short time since finding this site, posting and reading has been very helpful for me.
My ex-husband had a similar situation as yours with a son he had from a very short-lived first marriage. He finally got a DNA test ordered by the court to determine that the high school age young man was indeed his son after child support was sought years after by the BM. My ex was very excited and nervous about meeting his son. It became apparent within a short time that the BM had no interest in HER son getting to know his father. Taking care of the needs/wants of a growing boy were just getting expensive and she needed money. BM wanted to get my ex's son a car, but not just any car. She felt he had to have exactly what he wanted, a new and expensive sports car. Her rationale was that my ex had not had to pay anything for so long, he owed it to his son. You could make an argument like that, I suppose. However, she was infurriated by the idea that my ex wanted to get to know his son and did all she could to prevent that. Of course, the son's opinion of his dad was long ago poisoned by the BM. It ended up being all about money and that relationship went no contact also. In that marriage, I really never considered myself a SM. My ex, believing for years that the son was the product of his ex-wife's infidelity and nobody ever having had that assumption checked, made it so that he had as much role in his son's life as a sperm donor.
My current situation is a lot different. The man I am married to now was a responsible dad to his daughter throughout her life. Having SD and SSIL go no contact in this situation feels like something is being lost.
If you have a DH who supports
If you have a DH who supports your marriage and affirms your feelings regarding his family drama, you are very fortunate.Most of us live with perpetual daddeee blindness, even if they are fabuluous husbands to us every other way. Some men do not have the backbone or emotional understanding to see how jealousy destroys their own family; they have no parenting skills because these brats have always made all the rules. They are scared of their own adult kids. You tried, but you were doomed to fail before you walked in this distorted picture. The guilt belongs to daddeee, not you.
The dysfunction, in most cases, started long before any new wife walked in the door. Dadddeee can fix it or wife has to get out of it altogether--- one way or the other. Many fathers are too frightened of the spoiled brats to parent them. Solve your own problem if you have no support by staying away the craziness you never created. Let them blame you, who cares? You have to protect you....
I am very fortunate,
I am very fortunate, CANYOUHELP. I don't think my DH is scared of SD or SSIL. I think he just didn't anticipate any difficulties with his adult and married daughter and son-in-law when he got married again. I ordered a couple of books, "Making Adult Stepfamilies Work: Strategies for the Whole Family When a Parent Marries Later in Life" and "Stepmonster: A New Look at Why Real Stepmothers Think, Feel, and Act the Way We Do." My DH has listened to me read aloud from these book and has looked at them himself. We are both learning.
I took the "we" out of DH and
I took the "we" out of DH and my relationship with ss's, now "he" has a relationship with HIS sons. If I demanded respect from ss33 I'd be waiting a long time and DH would never be able to force it, and who wants fake respect. I prefer distance and peace. DH can have whatever relationship he wants with his children but I don't participate anymore.
There was a stretch of 6 mos where ss33 didn't talk to DH because DH gave ss a speil about adulting. It had nothing to do with me but of course I got the blame as to why they weren't talking. I just shrugged it off and didn't participate. Not my fault your son refuses to keep a job!
still learning, I liked what
still learning, I liked what you said about "who wants fake respect." I admit that I would rather have fake respect over outright animonsity and ugliness. However, I can see where fake respect, which becomes so obvious over time, isn't pleasant to live around either. I am guessing that I am getting all the blame for my DH outlining ways in which he would like me to be treated as his equal. What good is a wicked stepmother if not to blame for everything?
I asked DH if he ever wished
I asked DH if he ever wished he had stayed with BM to possibly prevent some of this alienation/damage that has occurred to SS19.
He says he would not have been able to stay in such a toxic situation, it would have killed him - and he thinks she started alienating SS the minute he popped out of the womb. He knows that she very early on set up the "Dad's an ogre" dynamic, and made herself the "nice parent". Plus she was fooling around on him, and everything was a crisis.
DH has made the decision that a peaceful life with me is what he wants, and that he won't chase his toxic son or buy his love. SS does speak to him, but barely, and is clearly controlled by BM still at 19.
The only thing I'd disagree with, OP, is that I don't see why your stepkids have to include you in gift-giving, etc. SS can have a relationship with DH and not with me, I don't care about that. He likes me, but I wouldn't be offended if he sent DH a gift and not me (he doesn't get DH one, either).
tog redux, I guess I have
tog redux, I guess I have heard of one parent trying to alienate a child from the other parent. I am sorry that it happened to your DH and his son. It is so selfish, robbing the child of the full experience of both parents. I guess there are plenty of selfish people in the world. I would agree with your DH, living in peace on a daily basis is better than living with a toxic person. It can impact your health, in addition to your mood, and I think he did the right thing by getting away from BM.
My DH felt that is fell into the realm of bad manners and lack of fairness not to include me in gift giving since I sent SD and SSIL gifts. Since he felt it was unfair, I wasn't going to argue with him over it. DH wrote the letter and I did not interfere. Although, unless it was a gift of dead rat, I don't suppose I'd mind getting a gift. That would be nice. Of course, people can think of all sorts of sad ways to gift someone whom they do not wish to buy for, as I've read about on StepTalk. I've read about the used thrift store items, the convenience store items, the re-gifted items and so on. We shall see what happens, or if anything does.
OP you wrote: will all the
OP you wrote: will all the wise and rational thoughts look empty compared to the loss of something that can never be redeemed - shared time together?
--------------------------------------------
Answer: NOPE
LOL! OK. Thanks.
LOL! OK. Thanks.
My OSD went no contact (it's
My OSD went no contact (it's now little contact) when my DH finally showed her he valued our marriage, and he expected her to treat me with respect. She couldn't handle that, so off she went into PunishDaddy Land.
What kind of relationship is it where a middle-age women is welcome to be rude to her father's wife and her father is expected to pat her on the back for it? A really toxic one, that's what. And it's a toxic relationship that I have no responsibility for. Why would any sane adult want to be part of that? The manipulate and reward/punish routine was established long before I showed up. OSD bragged when she was a young adult about how she could manipulate people to do whatever she wanted. What a prize she is.
I plan on having nothing to do with her unless she can provide me a remorseful apology that is insightful as to why she behaved the way she did, treats her father and I with respect both individually and collectively. And overall just stops acting like a scorned lover when she has a DH and children. But I know these things will never happen.
I have zero guilt feelings about this too. I at one time still wondered the "what if" because it's nice if people can just get along, but reality is your friend. There is nothing you can do to have a good relationship with some people, and some of these people just happen to be related to your DH (and mine).
Let it go. Give your DH permission to have a relationship with his DD. If he chooses not to, that is not on you. Your DH seems that he understands where the problems lie. Be grateful for that and live a peaceful life with him. My DH loves his peaceful life and is done with chasing his middle-aged DD who still needs to be first with daddy.
You made me smile,
You made me smile, SacrificialLamb, when you called it "PunishDaddy Land." That is exactly what it is and it would seem that it is for exactly the same reason, a father valuing a marriage to a woman who is not DD's mother, and expecting DD to treat SM with respect. If it were merely "LickYourWounds Land," I don't think it would last as long and it would think it wouldn't have so much of the ignoring of her father's feelings that I see. So yes, it does seem she has gone to PunshDaddy Land.
Thank you also for saying that you also at one time wondered., "...'what if' because it's nice if people can just get along..." Even if there is no good answer when a SD is determined to create dramatic situations in which DH is then forced to choose, it is nice to know that I am not the only SM out there that had these thoughts.
Guess I need to find that "Let It Go" song from the movie, "Frozen" and put it on repeat for a while.
Your DH may have been setting
Your DH may have been setting the bar too high expecting the skids to be gift givers, but he is an adult and that is his choice. His letter to them was not just based on their treatment of you, but also their treatment of him, so it is likely he reached a point where he gave up on his relationship with them for his own sake. If he wants to have a relationship with them outside the home, he could do that, it's not like you are stopping him. And if they loved him, they could make more of an effort. They sound toxic and it doesn't sound like they are good material for a healthy relationship with him. But at any point in the future, if he wants to try, outside the home, he should. For closure, at least.
He is an adult, and he can manage his own relationships.
You are correct, ipsofacto,
You are correct, ipsofacto, that my DH wrote to his DD about a few things that were bothering him regarding SD and SSIL's treatment of him. I don't think he had given up on his relationship with them when he wrote as much as he was hoping for some answers and some improvement. He has been feeling as if they are ignoring him and snubbing him for some time. As I mentioned above, SD and SSIL ignored his letter. I agree that if they loved him, they could make more of an effort. If my dad had told me that he felt ignored, I wouldn't handle it by ignoring him further. Even if I didn't like somebody in my father's life, I wouldn't ignore my dad. That's just me though.
Yes, my DH is an adult, and a pretty wise one too, I think.
You are way over thinking
You are way over thinking this. Your DH is a rational confident man of character. He knows exactly what he is doing and why he is doing it and he khows that his child and her husband are infantile non adults.
Don't create angst in a situation where the primary player has none.
IMHO of course.
I don't know how or where,
I don't know how or where, Rags, but I think you've met my DH! He is absolutely every good thing you have given him credit for here.
You are likely correct that I am overthinking things. I understand women are more prone to do that than men. I have wondered myself why I am so bothered by this. I think it boils down to two things.
First, what first brought me to this board were words used by SD and SSIL that were deliberately intended to hurt. This was no accident or oversight.
Second, those words were directed almost exclusively at me. It feels personal because it was presented to be all about me. Even if any other woman may have eventually been subjected to something similar, it was still me.
I usually do OK with blowing off people who act like jerks. In this case, it is SD and SSIL's relationship to my DH that I must learn not to worry about, I guess. As you aptly point out, the primary player isn't worried and life is better without added angst. .
I think it's worth pointing
I think it's worth pointing out that it's not just blended families where the kids never visit or call their parents. Lots of intact families have parents living alone and never speaking to their children.
In a step situation it's just easy to put the blame on the step parent instead of admitting that you're a terrible child who has no time for your parent/s.