We've reached a compromise...
DH and I had a very logical discussion last night about my issues regarding BM. I explained that I feel like he is putting me in a no-win situation: he doesn't like me disengaging, he doesn't want to fully separate finances (I don't either because it feels too tot-for-tat), he doesn't want me addressing BM directly, and he doesn't want me blowing my frustration and anger at him.
I said that I don't know other options I really have, other than give in and feel like I have no control or say over things that stir up a lot of drama and cause issues for us. For him, things are so much better than they have been that he feels content with things are. It felt like we were at an impasse yet again.
But as we talked, and actually talked/listened, we were able to nail down a few things that cause 60% of my issues that are within our control. Most of these issues deal with us spending money on things that CS should cover and having these long lists of items dumped on us at the last minute.
So here is the compromise:
1.) We no longer buy items for the kids that cost less than $20 that are needed for their daily care or that BM should have bought. No more socks and underwear - CS pays for that. No more putting school projects off until the last minutw so DH has to go out and buy all the poster board, markers, etc that the kids either already have at BM's or that BM should have purchased when they found out about their assignment. That is what CS is there for.
2.) No purchasing anything over $100 on a whim. Very rarely does something just "pop up" that should cost that much, so no more asking for $200 deposits on school trips on the Friday before it's due.
3.) Anything over $100 needs to be discussed with BM and she NEEDS to contribute to it. I don't care if it's only $10, but she can't just keep expecting to tell the kids yes to everything and then let DH bankroll the whole thing.
4.) The kids are responsible for keeping track of what they need and telling DH. If they need new shoes, that's fine. They need to tell DH, though. Not BM. They are teens now and know what they need.
5.) Absolutely no more funding of any church events. Their toxic teachings are 100% perpetuated by BM and can be 100% supported by her, too.
6.) DH needs to tell both BM and the kids that these are the new rules. Not sure how he is going to do it, but it needs to be done by him and my name shouldn't wander out his lips when he does it.
This isn't 100% what either of us want, but it's a good start. Really, what it comes down to is US deciding when and what we want to spend money on, not BM making promises to the kids then showing up with her hand out.
We'll see how this goes...
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Can he stick to this, though?
Can he stick to this, though? When his kids show him their holey socks and their puppy dog eyes? Or when they say they reaalllly want to go on that school trip next Monday that they knew about for 3 months but never mentioned until 45 minutes before the deadline for the payment, and BM is sooooo broke?
Seems like he will have a very hard time with this.
Oh I agree it will be hard,
Oh I agree it will be hard, but it is what we have agreed to. If he doesn't stick to it, then I'm back to where I was before ready to make the same decisions I was going to make before, be damned if he likes it or not.
I do sort of get where he's
I do sort of get where he's coming from - he doesn't want his kids to be punished because BM is a crappy parent, but it's hard to strike that balance. My DH would have told SS (and did) to talk to his mother because he paid her money every month that covered those things. But she used that to alienate, too.
Ugh. There's no good answer.
If
the kids were little and had no skills to keep their supplies and schedules organized, I'd agree. However, as they are older and closing in on adulthood, it doesn't matter what kind of parent BM is. Will their college professor or future boss need to liaisonwithBm about skids responsibilities?
Edit-Maybe have DH phrase the refusal ina waythat put the responsibility on the skids rather than BM? "Well junior, I wish you had said something a month ago about this fee/extra cost. It would have given me and your mom time to discuss it. Unfortunately it's too late for that. Next time please remember to give us more warning." " but, but mom says it's ok!" "Ok, then, I'll driveyou to the gas station by your moms house and she can giveyo the money." " she doesn't have any!" "So you andyur mom discussedthis and she made promises for my money?" "Don't you love me?" "Absolutely I do but I feel very uncomfortable that you and your mother are deciding how I spend my money. I already give her x dollars a month to cover costs like this so you will be more comfortable. "
This is exactly what we did
This is exactly what we did when the skids were finally old enough to be responsible for their own activities/clothes, etc. If they "needed" something last minute that they had known about for weeks or months, tough. They learned we didn't jump up and buy them x,y,z if they can't bother to communicate or plan ahead.
And Dad needs to emphasize
And Dad needs to emphasize that the X amount he pays is what the judge says is only his portion, and that BM is expected by the court to pay her portion, too.
Too many CODs grow up thinking their mom somehow gets a pass on support, while dad is viewed as an ATM.
Agree with uggh, no easy answer
The problem is that as long as the CP is feeding and housing the DCs, the NCP cannot direct how CS is spent. The NCP may think that CS should cover all school supplies, the CP may say no. I agree that OPs DH needs to work on a better answer, but it is not easy.
No, my DH can't make BM spend
No, my DH can't make BM spend the CS on this things it is supposed to be spent on, but he can refuse to buy those things when she mismanages her money. I don't appreciate BM saying she can't afford underwear then says she going on a shopping trip with her mom. Clearly the money exists; BM would just rather spend it on herself.
They are already being
They are already being punished. Even when he gives her money or buys them stuff, it's never enough. It never stops. It's literally visit after visit "needing" things. BM can't manage her money and it burns a hole in her pocket, so if DH will buy essentials for the boys, then she'll spend whatever little money she has elsewhere. Even when DH was paying her rent, utilities, cell phone bill, car insurance, AND CS (before my time), she STILL couldn't be bother to buy her kids meds when they were sick. She is a black hole that I want to quit throwing resources into.
I agree putting the oweness
I agree putting the oweness on the kids especially as they get older is important. My BD does this and we finally had to start letting her fail and she was not happy about it, but now she makes sure she tells us when fees are due or when there is a trip for school.
Pssst ..."onus".
Pssst ..."onus".
In a normal family you can for sure put it on the kids. I think this is a long-term pattern in this family and it will be hard to break. The kids will be mad at DH and that's going to be hard for him. BM will play the victim and they will feel sorry for her.
(No subject)
Question?? What is the compromise?
Where is the Compromise
Is he going to tell his kids he can not get them socks ? Or they can not go on a school trip ? Or They are going to get a failing grade in school because said project is not done, because dadddddy did not buy them poster board ?? You know this is not going to happen. Definitely see talk about things over $ 100. How about $99.99 ?? Or two $55 ? Game
Only when you give DH a harder time then BM does, will this stop. Either DH starts doing what you want and are paying for, or you have to make life hell for him. As separating your money, so by week two of the month he broke because he’s buying his kids all type of thing. He is paying CS, maybe he needs a second and third job to pay for his hearts wants. BetterThen sitting on his a** and making life hard for you
Yes, I expect him to say "no"
Yes, I expect him to say "no". You're right about the $100 thing; we do need to talk about that so it's not $400 worth of $50 things.
Really, this comes down less to a dollar amount and more down to what he has already paid for through CS. He has ALREADY paid for their socks and underwear. He has ALREADY paid for their school supplies. It's not like he contributes nothing, and if BM chooses to spend all the CS on rent and utilities, then she needs to foot the bill on the other stuff.
This comes from having the kids show up with lists of things they need on weekends that total $100-400. One weekend it's money for band, new socks, new pants. The next it's haircuts, shoes, school trips, and supplies. No discussion with DH about any of these needs. No lead time to figure out if we have the money. Just a list of items and expectation that it gets paid.
The FIRST time he renegs on this agreement and says "okay" will result in me saying "no" in front of BM and the kids. He doesn't WANT me to do this because it makes him look bad and causes discomfort. Too bad. If DH finds my behavior that abhorrent, he knows where the door is. And so do I.
I'm not saying DH can't buy things for his kids. What I am asking for is no longer just blindly agreeing to it because they ask. If BM can't afford the basics with $1000 a month in CS, and DH and I paying for OSS's phone, and DH and I covering their insurance (which, if used appropriately, comes with ZERO OOP for BM), then BM needs to get a second job. But I'm DONE bankrolling every fracking thing because she won't. Not can't - won't.
Does
the CS agreement outline what CS is used for? Or does the state website have those guidelines? Maybe the next time the kids come to him for socks or whatever he shoots an email to BM "per state guidelines, CS covers clothing. Skid1 needs socks. Would you like to buy them or should I and deduct that amount from next month's support amount?"
CO doesn't outline, but I'm
CO doesn't outline, but I'm sure there are state guidelines somewhere. And those are ultra-important because his CO has him responsible for anything "above and beyond", which gives him A LOT of latitude to say no. However, BM interpretted that to mean "I tell you what to buy and you buy it", which isn't the case. She doesn't have the legal authority to that, though.
However, that just reminded me of the CO, which may mean our rules need to change anyway. I need to look into the CS guidelines. My proposal will be anything listed on there is her responsibility, and anything else has to be discussed with me (since he wants to keep our finances semi-entangled) if he is going to spend over $100 total. Then I'm not the one saying "but CS pays for that!"
Maybe
Anything above CS gets discussed with you anyhow. If you give any wiggle room. it seems your DH will use it as a loophole around having to talk with you and then make you the bad guy when you are upset.
What is CS for?
I dont think most states will say what CS if for. If kid not being fed or clothed, DH can complain to CPS. He does not get to tell his ex what CS is for. He can say, I am not paying for extras, but he needs to stay away from telling her what to do.
Sounds like an AWESOME start
Sounds like an AWESOME start to me Lt_dad. Congrats on getting some rules out there!!! I can't even imagine how stabilizing that feels!!!
I think he would be wise to
I think he would be wise to sit the kids down and tell them now - "Look kids, here's the deal. I give your mom 1K a month to help with clothes and school stuff and haircuts, etc. Somehow, though, I end up paying for them again even though she's supposed to help. So going forward, I'm not going to do that anymore. I will buy x,y,z and not a,b,c".
He should also tell BM the same thing.
What will he do when the kids show up shaggy- haired and pissed off because no one will pay for their haircut? Plan in advance for that stuff. BM is going to refuse to pay and won't care how they look.
Also - we were told that the NCP is responsible for clothing at their home, it's not covered by Child Support. So you might not want to die on the socks and underwear hill.
ETA: Meant to reply to the OP, sorry.
I'm perfectly fine with
I'm perfectly fine with buying socks, underwear, and clothes for our house. If that's the game we have to play, then she needs to return every shoe, pair of pants, sock, underwear, belt, and shirt (minus the few they got for Christmas and their birthdays) because we have paid for ALL of it on top of CS. In 6 years, she has bought ONE pair of shoes. That is it.
DH buys school supplies every year at the start of the year. He does their haircuts (because BM will literally buzz cut them nearly bald when it's just her). Each has an electric razor and toiletries at our house. They each have their own bedrooms, computers, and televisions. It's not like DH doesn't care for them under our roof. They do tale clothes back and forth because it would be a waste to keep them just at our house. But, WE BUY IT ALLLLL.
I'm tired of buying it all, sometimes as a double payment. I'm fine with keeping our house stocked, but I'm not fine with also financing hers. If she were gainfully employed and trying her damndest but still falling short, I'd be inclined to help. But she's and she doesn't, and I'm too tired to continue the BS.
ETA - I think having that conversation with the kids would be great. They are starting to view and act like DH is an ATM, and that needs to stop. They need to know the specifics about how much money goes where.
yup
everything you buy stays at your house. everything BM buys stays at hers. That way the skids have supplies when they are with you and can see the difference between yours and BMs house.
My BM had that rule from the beginning which was fine with me but we were all a little lax about it until SD took a DVD I purchased for her to watch to BM's and kept "forgetting" it. Not sure why such a small thing rubbed me so raw, but that was the end of inter-house stuff.
This is certainly not the end
This is certainly not the end-all-be-all. This is the first step, and we even talked about it last night. This will give us something to try and modify versus him doing whatever and me hitting outraged levels when nothing changes.
All of this is a massive shift backwards for DH. He used to tell BM no. He used to not always just give in. Then we (yes, we) got more money and he thought he would just do whatever because we "were fine".
Well, we're not as fine anymore. We have NEEDS in our house that aren't being met, and those come above subsidizing BM's inability to adult AND the boys inability to express their needa in a timely manner.
It's time for everyone to grow up and take on their own responsibility fully.