18 year old running everyone's relationships
My DH has fallen into a terrible trap. He is letting his 18 year old rule our dynamic. First of all, I am so sick of hearing about her NON stop. She is not an only child, but you would sure think she was. Well, she's quitting college after two months and coming back home. She complains about mom's live in boyfriend always being there and having no time with mom alone. (They've been together 5 years.) Her first complaint about him was he never did anything with her, now she doesn't want him around. Now, I think my DH takes that to heart and anytime he gets with the skids, he wants to be alone with them. He thinks he needs just time with him and the skids. Like they're the inner circle and I'm on the outside. I get needing to do some things alone with them, but I'm talking everything. Like, they're going to breakfast, but sorry you can't come, we need time alone. I know it's all coming from the mini wife SD of his. I'm getting to where I don't even want to be around them because it's all so fake. They treat me one way in front of their dad and another way when he's not in the room. I just feel like our relationship has gone backwards, and DH is letting his SD18 run the show. He doesn't see it because she is oh so perfect! Any advice?
Darling don't blame your
Darling don't blame your entitled 18 year old SD for this one. Your H is actively excluding you from everything and he's the one also suggesting "alone" time with his kids. I get having quality time but if this is an every day occurrence than you have a problem. Yes your SD is problematic but the fact that your H isn't creating healthy boundaries is really blurring the lines here and this behavior is allowing the kids to continue dismissing and disrespecting you.
You need to address him!
Bingo, Siemprematahari! You
Bingo, Siemprematahari! You get a prize for the brilliant insight you just provided.
Sounds Like Guilt Driven Compensatory Behavior On DH's Behalf
That must be frustrating.
It sure sounds like since DH knows that SD doesn't like BMs "beau" of 5 years, that DH is trying to give her more attention to compensate what she's not getting at her BMs house.
Once DH's start (or we see the behavior for what it is) to respond and act on guilt, it will be very difficult to break that pattern, particularly, if SD keeps on him about it, which she will. There's a "payoff" for SD; she gets the unencumbered (you being left out) attention, having Daddeee all to herself.
What does your DH say when you bring it up? Does he get defensive? I'm sure he must.
Yes---Defensive is the
Yes---Defensive is the perfect word! Anytime the skids are brought up, the defenses go up. It's like, why??? Like you think I'm out to get your kids or something? That part really ticks me off. You married me for a reason. Don't forget that! It's a battle that I can NEVER win. I've been fightint it for some time, but the skids are definitely #1 in the marriage. I take the backseat if they are involved. He seems to think that the days we don't have them or aren't doing something with them, I'm #1. It's all a load of BS to me!
Stop fighting! He wants to go
Stop fighting! He wants to go and live a separate life and exclude you than make your own plans. This is not healthy and you sitting back and allowing it and not standing up for youself isn't helping. He wants to live life like he's single with no wife, than show him the door. This right here is crazy!
I Thought So
These men always get defensive, as a protective barrier. They attempt to justify their over the top behavior, in an effort to get you to buy into it. That is a form of emotional abuse, not to mention deliberately excluding you from activities. Does he not realize that he is the one creating the division, and who is not promoting or fostering a good relationship foundation?
It's one thing if YOU CHOOSE to exclude yourself (disengagement), but that is up to you to decide, not theirs. Nobody, (and certainly SDs) gets to tell you when you'll do something or not, and if you'll be included. For goodness sake, it's a meal. We all need to eat, don't we? And, what's so private that you cannot be included?
Many SMs here have been the victims of DH/SD collusion, and some choose to withdraw via disengagement, while others elect to stand their ground. Once you see the collusion light, it's very difficult to go back to the way things were.
Were the SDs always at the top of DHs list, even before your marriage? Just curious.
Also, how are things othewise? Are you still intimate, or have you gotten to the point you are just disgusted? When behaviors like this come to light, the feelings and respect seem to deteriorate rapidly.
You nailed it MissT
"That is a form of emotional abuse."
Yes, they were always at the
Yes, they were always at the top even before our marriage. Looking back now, I see the red flags. We dated and lived together for a year before I was even allowed to meet them. All our friends around us in the same boat, were kind of baffled by this at the time. I was new to divorce then, so I just let it go. He would leave me to go spend time with them. We are still intimate...not like we used to be, but we are. I feel like we've stepped all the way back to how it was when we weren't married. Like I'm not around the kids at all anymore. It's weird to me. This morning he mentions, he wants to take them Saturday to go do something. So it went from breakfast without me to the whole day. I have mentioned several times in the past to him, that it makes me feel a certain way not even being invited. I get the old "I need time alone with my kids." I'm assuming he read somewhere where that's healthy. And yes, we should all be able to have time alone with our kids, but it shouldn't become a normal thing...like that's the way you spend time with your kids now. Step mom is only allowed to come if it's a school function or something (which I would rather not go to! Lol) Fun stuff = dad only!
Sounds Like Guilt-Driven Compensatory Behavior
If BM can't come to school functions. He sounds like he is over compensating.
I completey understand how the intimacy level would not be the same.
What do you do when he spends the entire day away from you? This is not normal. How is the marriage supposed to survive if he's always with his kids?
As a man, I have to concur
As a man, I have to concur that agressively defensive is a go to position for me when my DW confronts me with my crap. Fortunately over the years I have learned to temper that a bit and rarely go there now. I wish I could say that I never go there.
But... after all.... I am a man.
As a man
As a man, what is the reason for being so defensive? I ask because this is my husband to a T. It is the major reason for our fights. We can’t communicate because anything I say, he gets defensive about it and shuts down. We are even talking stupid things. If I give an example of something and the skids are involved in the example, he immediately gets angry like I’m talking bad about them which I don’t do! Like tonight, we were out today and got a sofa at a gas station. He was at the fridge and I pointed which kind I wanted. I didn’t think it was a big deal that he grab mine when he grabbed his. 3 times today he brought that up, like I’m spoiled blah blah blah. After the 3rd time, as he’s laying in bed, I tell him, you like being waited on sometime, like I bring you breakfast on weekends while you watch tv, I brought you your dinner in front of the tv tonight. I said I know you like waiting on people because SD18 was here yesterday and he waited on her. I didn’t go into specifics. She did literally lay around all day while he brought her drinks, snacks, I cooked, she didn’t help clean up or anything. I didn’t mention any of that. I just said, you like being waited on, you like waiting on SD, what’s wrong with me being waited on sometime? Oh my! His eyes got huge and he went into a rant about me bringing up his kid. They are taboo period. I post on here sometimes and everyone tells me to tell DH how I feel. I try but if it has to do with the skids, I will always lose. They are taboo subjects...even if it’s nothing bad! He wonders why I don’t even bother to ask about them anymore. Well, because it will turn into a fight somehow. I’m kind of done with this crap. I don’t deserve to be treated this way.
Counselor
Your DH is going on attack mode because he doesn't want to make any concessions for the marriage. He only wants it his way. He is being a tyrant. In my opinion, telling him how you feel is useless at this point. He's had the upper hand for too long.
DH is the one who started an argument by repeatedly reminding you of the small favor he did for you. It was almost as if he was trying to antagonize you, so he could verbally attack you. He's being a bully. You were justified in your response to him. Please visit a counselor by yourself to build up your self-confidence and expectation for equal treatment. Also for some suggestions on how to deal with this situation so it is win-win. AND as suggested earlier, start saving up and formulate and exit plan.
Thank you for your response.
Thank you for your response. I am going to find someone to make an appointment. It sucks because I have no one to confide in...hence me being here. I know it's gaslighting, but he makes me feel like all these arguments are MY fault and I'm the one with issues. I was in an abusive marriage before, both physical and emotional. I'm starting to see the signs. For the first time this weekend, I looked at him and basically loathed him. I've never felt that way and I hated it! I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about what all went on that night...more of the same...just a different subject line.
Your Fault
"-- he makes me feel like all these arguments are MY fault and I'm the one . with issues." You're right - a classic case of gas-lighting. Please keep coming back here so we can tell you that it's just NOT you - other than it appears you made the same mistake twice. SO many of us do that when we have been exposed to abuse. Believe it or not, it's more comfortable to us to gravitate to something familiar even if it's more abuse.
Make an appointment with a good counselor / therapist to go to by yourself. One word of caution: Try out the therapist, and if they don;t seem to 'fit' go to another one. The first one I called was obviously a SD with SM issues. The second one was great, and helped me to gain the self-confidence to place boundaries on people who do not have my best interests in mind. It didn't take long before I stood my ground and gave DH the choice of working on the marriage or leaving.
For me it is more about being
For me it is more about being confident that I am right and defending my position than it is anything else. I have learned over the years to listen to learn rather than listen to respond. At least far better than I use to.
Things go much better when I listen and pay attention than when I attempt to formulate my response while she is speaking.
I think that part of the issue is also that my bride extrapolates a progression of message based on insinuations that I never even thought of during a discussion.."So you think........!".
Nope, if I didn't say it, I didn't think it.
Interestingly, this was a notable issue in our marriage for a number of years. So much so that he would get pretty irritated with me when I would ... as she called it... "defend myself". This made no sense to me since a natural thing to do is to defend one's self when being attacked.
It took a major shift for me to formulate my words in a way that kept her from feeling that I was defending myself. Ultimately it was pretty simple. I would just be blunt and start any rebuttle with "I don't agree. That kept it at a discussion level rather than a disagreement/defensive level. That kept us focused on the discussion rather than being defensive.
It is important for me to not go too far in the other direction. I have to particupate just the right amount or she feels like I am ignoring her. Not responding because I don't want to escalate a discussion is not an option. In those situations I have to be blunt and just say "We are just going to have to disagree on this one. I don't want to fight about it.".
My wife is extremely defensive of her family. When she gets agressive and initiates a discussion on my family I have to shut it down because if I defend my family it will get ugly. My ILs are universally not the sharpest tools in the intellectual shed, are all constantly on the ragged edge of bankruptcy, foreclosure, etc.... My family are all very successful and highly educted. My DW is the only one in IL clan the mix that is higly successful and educated. so when she tries to deflect a discussion by redirecting it to my family I just make sure to point out that she doesn't want to initiate a comparison discussion.
This is me being defensive.
IMHO discussion rather than defense is the way to go. Both of us have to participate from the perspective that we both care about the topic, each other, the SKid, my ILs, her ILs and the only demographic that either of us detest is the SpermClan. We both also recognize that there is a point when further discussion is not a smart thing. We both try to respect that transition poing.
It is far better when just realizes that I am always right.
The problem is your DH. You
The problem is your DH. You need to make it more painful for him to exclude you than his daughter makes it for him to include you. Tell him that exclusion doesn't cut it in your marriage and that he needs to prioritize you over his adult daughter if he expects the marriage to last.
I can see a RARE occasion of
I can see a RARE occasion of "alone time", but otherwise, I'm sorry, you are a family now. If you were the BM, would he be excluding you? I suspect not. He's essentially saying, Oh sorry, my children didn't come out of your vagina, so you get to take a backseat. Bullshit!
Yes!!! That's exactly how I
Yes!!! That's exactly how I feel! I'm never gonna be priority because I didn't birth the princesses!!!! I see no reason why he needs weekly alone time. As of right now, one day a week he picks up SD16 and takes her to dinner. I am not included. You would think every now and then I would be invited. Now this weekend SD18 comes home for the weekend. He's spending his Saturday taking her to breakfast alone mind you, and working on doing car maintenance on the car that is sitting at BM's house for another year waiting on the younger SD to be able to drive.
Do The 2 Of You Have "Alone Time?"
Are you and DH ever alone, or is it just DH and SDs who are afforded this "luxury?"
How does DH presume to run a healthy marriage when he has 2 mini-wives?
If my DH did something like
If my DH did something like this, I would be too busy to see him when he was available, and too tired to have sex with him.
Cut the B.S.
I went through that 'nice around Dad, not nice when he leaves the room B.S. for 20 years. It's not worth it to continue along this path, It's time to give DH a choice: He either cuts back on his private dinners and his exclusion of you or there will be consequences. There should be a certain percentage of time he should be giving to his marriage to make it top priority.. Is he agreeable to marriage counseling? If not, go by yourself so that you can get the confidence to take a stand and don't back down. Also, if, needed you will have the strength to tell him to get lost,
It’s your DH who causing your trouble.
If he wants time alone. Then he should move out and have all the alone time he wants. I would not let my SO do that to me. If we go to breakfast we go as a family, or I am the one who decided if I want to go or not. You have to make a stand This is the hill to died on. or it’s going to get worst.
It's already getting worse. I
It's already getting worse. I feel like I feel when we dated. We dated and lived together for a year and he "protected" the skids by not having them meet me for a year. I feel like I've gone back to those days. Literally lately, the only time I have seen the skids is at school related functions where everyone goes to dote on them for singing, etc. Anytime it's time for him to have them, he goes rogue...alone. The one about to turn 16 doesn't spend EOW with us anymore, so when he sees her or SD18, he "needs alone" time with them. I get the speech, I would be ok for you to have that time with your kids if you wanted it. Well, I don't even think that's healthy. Yeah, I may get a pedi with my daughter or something, but if it's a family dinner or hanging out, it's a FAMILY dinner! I want my kids to know he's MY family. I just think it for one, shows that we aren't a unit when it comes to his kids. They are the main source of our arguments. No matter what I say...I could say "Janie's shirt is blue" and he will have a knock down argument that it's pink. I've told him how I feel, over and over. Maybe he's just that dumb to where he forgets a day later??? I mean, we had a pow pow this week about how he has been making me feel unimportant lately. I wake up to a sweet text, where you can tell he's trying to make me feel better. An hour later when I talk to him, he springs, the alone breakfast one me. Today, I'm talking to him about our plans for Saturday evening, and he slips in there, I want to do something with the skids Saturday. So it went from car work, breakfast, to basically, he wants the whole day to have alone time with them. What really stinks is I have no family whatsoever here. I'm only living in this town for DH to be close to his kids. I don't have family I could go hang out with during these times of abandonment. DH is my family and this is how I am being treated...not of value. I should be ok, to just sit at home while he does whatever. I guess he will spring the plans on me at the last minute. I won't be able to plan anything for myself. It all just stinks, ya know???
Standing you up
"Today, I'm talking to him about our plans for Saturday evening, and he slips in there, I want to do something with the skids Saturday. So it went from car work, breakfast, to basically, he wants the whole day to have alone time with them."
This is just like having a date with someone and they stand you up for someone they think is a better date. Considering that this man is supposed to be married to you makes his behavior beyond unacceptable.
There is more than one issue here: One, DH seems to prefer the Skids' company to you. Two. the amount of time he spends with them. Three, he does not honor prior commitments with you. This is a hill to climb on. He needs to be pressed to make a decision; does he want to be even a part-time Husband or a full time Father? When a man marries a woman he is a little bit of both. I don't mean to be cruel, but it is time to ask his reason for marrying you because he sure isn't demonstrating that he has any value for you what-so-ever. Start saving and make an exit plan.
I don't get it either
All our kids were adults when we met. Now all but one of mine live out of state, so it's not an issue anymore but that kind of stuff used to happen with him and SD (it's always SDs, isn't it). Now if I would suggest to one of my kids that we go out, it's the opposite: their first question would be "is H coming?" (As in, they want him to come too) And the answer would be, yes, if he wants to.
I don't get this "alone time" with the adult kids except for the occasional father-son or mother-daughter bonding activity.
Yes! My kids would think
Yes! My kids would think something is wrong in our marriage if we went out to dinner and purposely left DH sitting at home! There's just no reason for it. They have accepted that we are a unit. There was a time, they would have been happy if I excluded him at the beginning, but I quickly put my foot down, because I know that's a slippery slope. Now they recognize us as a couple and think it's natural that we do things as a family. Burns me up that he lets things get to this point. He will never do ever do anything that he thinks could hurt SD's feelings. He's rather hurt mine than theirs!
Happycamper what are you
Happycamper what are you going to do about is blatant exclusion??? I can't begin to tell you how much it bothers me to see another woman being manipulated and walked on like this. I know you don't have family and it seems like instead of making your H part of your world, you have MADE him your entire world. You don't need family in order to go out and enjoy life. You can go visit a museum, park, cafe, movies, pumpkin picking, art gallery, plan whatever in order to enjoy life and not sit home waiting for him like you're at his mercy.
Don't you see that he's making plans and making decisions without you?? I know you do, so what are you going to about it???
This is not healthy or normal
This is not healthy or normal. They are just pretending you don't exist, including your DH, and actively living that fantasy. He's hiding you like he'd hide a mistress.
You're good enough for your DH when his kids aren't around, but you're not good enough when they are. That would be intolerable to me.
The only real option I see is couples counseling where a neutral third party can help both of you work through this. And if your DH won't go even though it's important to you and to your ability to stay in the marriage, well then you have your answer. Nothing will change, unless you make a change. And only you can decide if that is right for you.
Exclusion is unacceptable
Sounds to me like DH has unrealistic expectations for the "old realities" to stay in place. From my personal experience with two blended families, step family situations will always exacerbate each family member’s secretive wish to exclude some members of the family from the inner circle. Unfortunately, SMs always seem to be the favorite target for exclusion especially by SKIDS.
Notice I said SKIDS and not DH? In your case, excluding you seems to be a common goal of your DH and SD. That is completely unacceptable. Your DH must rectify the exclusion problem, not the 18 year old. More likely than not, he is emotionally invested/enmeshed with SD and excluding you is part of the patterning. Unfortunately, you are never privy to what is said between DH and SD when they have "alone time." They are not being honest with you. I have no doubt that DH is a wet bag of guilt, but he needs to man up to your marriage.
This is obviously an issue that colors everything else and it will be up to DH to address and change the boundaries. Your marriage/relationship should be priority over the "time with children." YOU should be the priority over SD.
So many women allow this kind of behavior to slide for years. The sooner it is stopped, the bettter. It is emotionally abusive to you and if your DH had any integrity, he would put emphasis on appeasing your relationship.
I had the same problem with
I had the same problem with my DH, she thought that she found her twin flame but I didn`t agree with her and every day we had the same situations, we argue at everything. She said that she wanted to have 18 years old to leave us and to live with him. One day I found a blog http://twinflamez.net/ where is written all about twin flame and I gave her to read this article and after 2-3 weeks she came to me and said "Thank you" because she understood that he isn't her twin flame but a fake one and he only used her.