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Manipulative skid update

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

Had his trial and got sentenced to a rather long term (don't want to go into details). Dh talked to him on the phone and he told his attorney he feels "abandoned." So dh and I got into quite an argument last night about whether him moving in once he's out is an option. Dh kept saying things like I need to change my attitude, and he NEEDS HELP (he said that loudly so many times he sounded like a broken record) and I'm gonna HELP HIM. He also kept going off about how he's not gonna "ABANDON HIM." Even though it's years down the line I am taking precautions to ensure I can legally prevent him from moving in here if dh and I don't come to a better understanding between now and then. Does anyone have issues with this type of situation? I am also wondering what goes into sentencing at a trial...dh said it was the extent of the dudes injuries but I have a sense that it's more than just that. 

Here's the manipulative part: Dh said skid has an issue with me because skid feels that I came between him and dad (didn't want him around the house when all he would do is show his ass when he came over, eat me out of house and home, and act like a complete jerk). As if he should be allowed to come around after beating the daylights out of dad and putting a guy in a coma. Does it sound like he's a sociopath?

sandye21's picture

Your SS feels 'abandoned'?.  That's pretty ironic isn't it?  SS didn't give your DH one millisecond of thought while he was beating another person into a coma.  I'm not a professional therapist but your SS defintely has anger issues which may not be addressed in prison.  It 'sounds' like he needs to go somewhere else besides your home when he is released.  You need to protect yourself first and foremost.  With SS's rages, the next victim could be you.  Stand firm and continue to say "No."  If DH goes into a rage, walk away from him until he calms down.  If your DH continues to go into his fits, maybe that's a sign that the apple has not fallen far from the tree.   You have a few years - save for an exit plan just 'in case'.

I think Sammi went through something similar to this so it will be interesting to see what her response is.

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

He put the guy in a coma with one punch...the incident with dh was seperate. Dh has mantrums (yelling) but doesn't rage. 

sandye21's picture

OK, I'll rephrase what I wrote:  SS didn't give your DH one millisecond of thought while he was beating his own Father up and sucker-punching another person into a coma.  I misinterpreted your comments about your DH.  Yelling is abusive too but at least he doesn't get physical.  Again, if DH yells at you walk away from him until you and he can discuss the situation calmly.  I'm on your side and am worried for you.  Please continue to stand firm.  There are other, healthier options for when SS is released.

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

I disagree that yelling is abusive. I yell too. That said what options do you know of? I am in the research stage and would like to arm myself with options to present to DH if he decides to be dramatic and play the "poor baybee needs somewhere to go" card.

Exjuliemccoy's picture

Are you saying this animal beat up his own parent?? How awful. I do remember one member sometime ago whose H moved his jailbird son into the home after he was released or paroled or whatever. The dysfunctional relationship between father and son caused a lot of strife, and she eventually left.

Does it really matter what disorder this criminal has? All that matters is that he has proven himself to be violent and dangerous. It's premature for your DH to be worrying about where the criminal will live when released, and hopefully he'll be less emotional as time goes on. I'd state my boundary if he brings it up, then refuse to debate the issue. 

And if your DH is old enough to have an adult son, he should have enough self control not to yell or tantrum. Mantrum is a cutesy word for unacceptable, angry behavior.  I can see why Sandye drew that correlation. 

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

Yes, if he truly IS a sociopath it absolutely matters. Pretty sure he's going to get out eventually first of all and seconldly I AM dealing with a DH that has feelings of guilt and refuses to see the truth about this guy (hopefully that'll change). Not to mention that if he is one, I need to learn best how to deal with his tactics (I got between him and dad, probably because I didn't encourage him coming around 24/7 like a revolving door). I don't care if the word mantrum is cutesy. This is a terrible situation with a lot of bad history behind it. I yelled some too. Is it the perfectly PC thing to do? Nope? Did I yell as well? No. And guess what-the world didn't end.

hereiam's picture

Honestly, I think this guy needs more help than your husband can give him. And, chances are, that he will come out of prison even more angry and more violent.

There's absolutely no way I would live in the same house as him.

marblefawn's picture

At sentencing, your SS's attorney will try to mitigate SS's crime by talking about what influenced him to do something so heinous. For example, "My client's birth parents were drug addicts. From the time he was 5, he was raised in a series of 14 foster homes. He had no good role models and violence was how he learned to cope with bullying." SS's attorney may bring up a learning disability or a mental illness that reduces SS's impulse control, which caused him to attack the victim. SS's attorney's job is to bring up anything that may sway a judge or jury to give him a chance by giving him a reduced sentence.

He may also bring up the extent of the injuries or anything the defendant did to provoke your SS -- such as years of bullying, an inappropriate sexual relationship, etc., but this is risky for a defense attorney to try, especially if it's a jury trial rather than a bench trial that is overseen only by a judge with no jury.

Now, that is the attorney's job, and while people abhor attorneys who defend people like Jeffrey Dahmer or Nazi war criminals, it is their job to work solely for their client's benefit. That's how and why the system works.

You should also consider this: If he or she is a good attorney, he or she will be working your husband for sympathy so your husband will join him or her in getting SS a reduced sentence. SS's attorney may be working up to ask your husband to speak on SS's behalf at his sentencing. Or he may want to use the fact that SS has a controlled setting (such as your home) for re-entry after he fulfills his sentence in an effort to convince a jury/judge to give him less time. Some parents even go so far as to get on the stand and testify that they were shitty parents who didn't parent the defendant at all in an effort to get the kid a reduced sentence.

If you remember, a defense attorney in Texas used a kid's affluent upbringing to get that defendant a reduced sentence after he killed 4 people when driving drunk. It was dubbed the "Affluenza Defense" by the media.

You may speak privately with the defense attorney to let him or her know that you will oppose SS moving into your home just so he or she doesn't play too much with that at his sentencing, but he may tell SS or your husband that you told him that, so it's risky if you want to keep it on the sly. And of course, the prosecutor will be parading anyone from SS's past and the victim's family before a judge/jury to make his case that SS's sentence should be longer than shorter. If there's anything you know about SS's past that would work against SS that the prosecutor doesn't know, well, I'll leave it at that and let you read between the lines. Be careful, though.

I would not want this person in my home. I would not stay in a home with a violent offender. So maybe you need to draw a line in the sand with your husband and tell him you understand why he may want to help SS, but you will not be part of it and you will leave if SS moves in (if you are that adamant about it). I would be honest and calm with your husband and tell him in no uncertain terms that you are objective because SS's not your blood and you do not feel SS is a good risk for your home. Your husband can help SS without moving him into your home and putting you in jeopardy.

I really wish you luck. I can't imagine being up against something like this. I would be terrified, but I am exceptionally sensitive to this sort of thing after so many years seeing it up close for my work.

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

He already was sentenced,. What makes the decison swing in the direction of a harsher sentence? Are you saying in your work you've dealt with parents/steps who disagreed about whether to move someone in after prision? If so how did it play out?

Do you have suggestions for how he can help SS without moving him in? If he tries it DH can be the one to leave. 

marblefawn's picture

Oh. You wrote: "I am also wondering what goes into sentencing at a trial," so I assumed he wasn't yet sentenced.

If he was already sentenced, it doesn't matter what swings a judge or jury. It's done. He got what he got.

No, my job deals with criminal and civil courts.

If he comes up for parole, or even when he completes his full sentence, you might be in a state where he must identify where he will be living and how he will find employment before he may be released. That's when you might have some power.

But in the meantime, a lot can happen, especially if he's locked up for a few years. He might reoffend while in prison, especially if he's violent and has no impulse control, which could add time to his sentence. He may lose touch with your husband, so he might not ask to move in with you. SS might come up with another housing plan for after his sentence.

I would spend this time telling your husband your expectations of what will happen when SS is released and finding out what your husband intends to do regarding SS. Tell him first that you will not have him live with you, then ask what help he intends to extend to SS.

What your husband should do now is promise SS future support IF he takes advantage of prison programs: that's free education so he has some marketable skills and a chance for a job when he gets out; anger management, so he has some control and can keep his job when he gets out; church services - sometimes people find god in prison and it helps them connect with decent people who can help them when they get out; there are even prison programs to train service animals, which gives prisoners comfort when they're inside and helps them learn compassion and caring for someone other than themselves.

Do some internet research and ask around about employers willing to hire ex-cons. If you find some potential employers, SS will have income and might be able to find a rooming house he can afford. Usually, there are places where landlords are willing to house ex-cons, but they are cheap and seedy and will put SS around the wrong element for success. But it's better than landing in your house. 

The problem with prison is it puts ex-cons further behind -- now they have a record so employment and housing are harder to find. That increases recidivism. Then they go back to prison and come out again even further behind.

The best thing for all of you is to position SS as well as possible for his release so he has options other than moving in with you. It won't be easy. But if SS wants your husband's help, now is the time for your husband to hang that future help over SS's head to demand SS takes advantage of prison programs.

Use this time to tell your husband what you are willing to do to help SS and what you won't do. Negotiate it now before SS is on the scene.

Survivingstephell's picture

You didn't say how long SS would be locked up for but I would suggest getting some counseling for you both so that you as a couple can figure out if its worth staying together and if it is, being a team in the face of SS coming out of prison.  Take this time to make your marriage stronger or allow it to fall apart.  It already sounds fragile and at least you have a deadline to come to a decsion about SS.  

My DH is a corrections officer for 30 years.  A lot can happen to SS when he's inside.  Good or bad.  If he acts all cocky inside, it will catch up with him and he might very well earn more time.  He might find out he has a mentall illness and get medicated for it.  So many things that might change the outcome.   

Try not to dwell on the future and work on now.  You will drive yourself nuts trying to figure out a solution to every possible outcome.  

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

I'm asking what goes into it because I am trying to get an idea of what he is really like.- and knowing info that would've swayed the judge to give him prison is likely info that would help me figure out how this kid ticks and how to deal with him. Idk why they bothered with the "90 days observation" though-seems to me it was a waste of time. Does it sound to you like we may be dealing with a sociopath? Good info, btw, it's appreciated.

marblefawn's picture

Didn'tsignup, you said like three things about SS. How could I possibly know if he's a sociopath? The good news is, it makes no difference. At the very least, he's violent. He aggressed on his own father -- do you think he'd hesitate to take out his SM? It's like this...you need to buy a dress and you see a dress at the store and it's hideous. Does it matter if it's your size?

Surely YOU know SS better than a couple of lawyers and a judge! Do you think he's dangerous? Have you never met him? Have you asked your husband about possible mental illness in his kid? You said something about him beating up your husband. What were those circumstances? Did you witness it? If you saw it, what did YOU see in SS? 

You know the essential information to make your decision about SS living in your house: those who judged him deem him so dangerous, he must be locked in a cage like an animal. Society must be protected from him. He put someone in the hospital. Will you sleep at night with him in the next room?

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

Pretty sure  I don't expect you to know whether he's a sociopath or not. I asked if it SOUNDED LIKE he was one. I agree with your other points, and no I don't think he'd hesitate to attack me. I just have no idea how to get DH to see the light when he's claiming that skid will be changed when he gets out. 

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

Dh knows how I feel about him moving in. If he's smart he'll tell skid that nope, moving in with us WILL NOT happen, and to find his big boy panties and pull them up in a hurry. Dh can help him if he wants but skid also needs to learn the art of helpiing himself. 

oneoffour's picture

I think DH is dealing with this situation in the 'shock and awe' stage. His son has been put somewhere where Dad cannot save the day for him and as a father he probably feels like he is helpless.

Just reiterate "No, he is not moving in here, I do not feel safe when he is here. I am not budging." Quietly and firmly.

DH will settle down and visit his son from time to time if he is close enough. Or he may goa year or so before seeing him again. Let your DH settle down into the routine of knowing where SS is and life goes on. I bet in a few years he will not be so keen for SS to move in.

didn'tsignupforapunk's picture

I sincerely hope you're right. What makes you think he won't be so keen in a few years? Do you have personal experience?