Is this "Normal"?
First let me say that I am not making any assumptions or accusations and I'm not really interested in anyone's thoughts as to my "motives" in asking this question because there is none (frankly I'm a little irritated that I feel I have to even include this "disclaimer" on a site "where SPs come to VENT", but I digress...), I am just looking for genuine feedback based on EXPERIENCE in this area because I really would like to understand this better:
My SD will be 12yo in September. She has been developing breasts since she was 9yo (SLOWLY - thank God) and started getting visits from "Aunt Flo" about a week after her 11th birthday last year. She likes boys (Justin Bieber like all the other pre-teen girls these days) and I caught her once watching porn on the internet, so God only knows how many times she'd done it before she got caught (or even AFTER for that matter since H seems to think its still okay for her to surf the internet unsupervised and withOUT parental controls!)
Anyway, I see a lot of myself at this age in SD. I was also 9yo when I started developing breasts (but mine BOOMED and didn't seem to stop!) I was also 11yo when I got my first visit from "Aunt Flo", and would'nt you know it also had a "Guilty Disney Daddy" that I spent EOW with. However, this is where the similarities stop and what leads me to the question I have...
SD is VERY, well, "affectionate" with H. For instance if we are all sitting in the livingroom watching a movie she has to sit next to H, and at some point she always HAS to plant herself in his lap until he "jokingly" starts groaning and tells her she's too fat (she's NOT fat) and then makes her get up. When she's sitting next to him it seems she always has to be TOUCHING him. Stroking his hand or rubbing his arm or shoulders or something like that. Last weekend H was sitting on the floor in front of the sofa and she climbed onto the sofa in a way so that her legs were on either side of his body and she was sitting behind him, then she started massaging his shoulders then rubbing his head and she said "Daddy I wish you would grow your hair back long", H says "why", and SD says "oh *giggle*, because I just liked it that way". Mind you, SD KNOWS her Dad cut his hair off short because I like it THAT way, as he told her this after he cut it when she asked why he did it. This "affection" is not confined to the home either. When out in public she will often make sure she is walking next to him and either trying to hold his hand or even sometimes wrapping her arm around his waist and laying her head on his shoulder, meanwhile I'm usually holding my 6yo's hand to keep him from running off!
Let me note that SD and I are virtually the same size. I mean, she still looks like a "little girl" with no womanly curves like I've got, but we're the same height and I am only 10-20lbs heavier that she is (she's a size 3 jeans, I'm a size 5.) I would also like to note that I've NEVER seen H reciprocate this type of "affection" with her. He will hug her and kiss her on the cheek and tells her he loves her like any Dad would, but never anything more than that. As a matter of fact when she does this stuff I see him usually pull away (or get up in the case of last weekend's "head massage") and I personally think it looks like it makes him uncomfortable but he's maybe afraid to tell her that for fear of hurting her little feelings or something.
So if you haven't figured it out yet by the title and subject matter of this post, I'm simply wondering if this all sounds "normal" to those of you have have pre-teen and teenage SDs or even your BDs with their BFs? I say pre-teen and teenage because I'm also wondering at what age, if any, is it "inappropriate" for a daughter to interact with her father this way, or if it ever is appropriate?
I don't know because even though my "story" was very similar to hers at this age, I NEVER acted this way with my own father. I just know that this makes me uncomfortable, especially when, as I mentioned in a previous blog, my BS1 is being held by my H or my SD when this type of interaction is going on. A little strange to me, but then that's why I'm asking because maybe this is "normal" and I just don't know it?
I keep picturing this movie I saw where the daughter about the same age as SD basically "romanticized" the father and one day she finally tried to kiss him (like a "WOMAN") and well, the relationship between her and her dad was never the same (he REJECTED her of course by the way!) I know this was only a movie, but it really creeps me out!
Please let me know if this is "normal" so I can start trying to be okay with this (I guess if I can...)
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ACtually... with a daughter I
ACtually... with a daughter I think it is. My daughter (11) is always holding her daddy's hand, or giving him hugs when they are on the couch. She sits next to him when at dinner, etc. She is a "daddy's girl". He always just grabs her and gives her big hugs.
Not so much with my son, but that is just a man thing. I think he doesn't want his son to think it is okay for him to be rubbing up on any man.
It seems to me that, at the
It seems to me that, at the root of this, a very young girl is crying out for affection from her father. It doesn't sound like she is "sexualized," which sounds like what you're afraid of. But that she is looking to her father for assurance that she is beautiful, special and loved. This young girl is not your enemy or rival. She needs and wants and, more importantly, deserves to have her father give her a starting place for her confidence as a young woman.
The best model for future relationships with a man is a girl's father. When she is older and looks for romantic love from a young man, she will measure him against how her father has treated her. A father needs to be able to be freely affectionate, tender and kind with his own daughter because that's what she will search that out and she will find it in the man who becomes her lover, best friend and hopefully, husband, when she is an adult. Or, if her father was distant and cold, she will look for that in her future relationships.
Which kind of future relationship would you rather her find?
JMHO.
Honestly I don't know what is
Honestly I don't know what is normal...I think it all depends on how people roll...me...I would have been mortified to be anywhere near my fathers crotch at age 12. Lap sitting was done with my kids by the time they were 6-7. Of course quick hugs and kissses still apply..I felt that is what was appropriate for me. My BF daughter is all over him all the time..sometimes he appears to be uncomfortable with it but he never says anything to her about it. If it makes you uncomfortable maybe you should gently ask your DH about it...kinda touchy subject though.
I have a SD11 who also is
I have a SD11 who also is very developed and has her period and would often lay on her dad and it sicked me out. I finally told him exactly how it appeared to me and he had NO IDEA that it looked inappropriate. In his mind it was his little girl laying on him on the sofa like she always had. Sometimes it doesn't hurt to point things out.
What's "normal?" Normal is
What's "normal?" Normal is usually related to how many people do something vs not...so it "might" be normal for many, but NO DOUBT this IS innaproriate... I would put a stop to it and quickly.
that behavior would turn my
that behavior would turn my stomach...... the only time i ever had to deal with it is when mil FORCED sd to climb all over dh, they were both uncomfortable.... we rarely go to mils anymore for different reasons and the shit doesn't happen here
Sounds like this can be
Sounds like this can be considered normal. I feel better already.
By the way - I don't view SD as my "rival". She is a little girl & I am a woman - I've never had any insecurities where that was concerned. The affection H gives me is DEFINITELY DIFFERENT than what he gives SD (as it SHOULD be) I was looking it more like it possibly being "unhealthy" for her if she was having confused feelings for her father that wouldn't be reciprocated.
...as I sit here "bird feeding" BS1 (this nectarine is a bit hard, but he insisted I share ...)
She asked everyone to please
She asked everyone to please not question her motives, but I guess some of you can't help it. I think she was just acknowledging that she's not threatened or jealous, because she knows where her husband stands . . . she's just not sure where her SD stands. She also mentioned that her husband doesn't reciprocate and seems a little uncomfortable. I remember my cousin, who was 11 at the time, would lay on top of her brother's friend. The friend politely told her she's too big for that, and it wasn't appropriate. And my cousin proved to need to be told what was appropriate. Apparently she told my aunt excitedly that she now grew hair on her pubes. Some girls need a little guidance. Because sometimes it won't stop. My half sister is 15, and she thinks it was appropriate to talk about Blow jobs with her brother and watch movies with naked strippers in it with our father (unfortunately my father is super inappropriate with children so that wasn't intervined).
I think it's a great idea for her to talk to her husband, because sometimes its an uncomfortable subject and he may not know how to go about it. This girl may be jealous of the relationship between her Dad and SM, and might have inappropriate motives. If she is truly going through puberty, I personally don't understand why she would want so much physical contact with her father unless she has an agenda. Some of you say it's normal, but I think it's just more common maybe with daughters of divorce (because they want more attention).
I agree counseling can never
I agree counseling can never hurt. However, she did not ask anyone's opinion on her motives (even if you believe she is jealous), she asked if anyone thought the girl's behavior was normal.
Seriously? Wow. SD11.8 is a
Seriously? Wow.
SD11.8 is a LITTLE GIRL! The "size" comparisons were used to highlight the fact that SD is NOT a "little" girl in HEIGHT/WEIGHT compared to me (so you can picture what it might look like for SD to be sitting on H's lap) but she is definitely still a "LITTLE" girl from a "development" standpoint (thank God for her parent's sake!) I can see where some might mistake that for "jealousy" though, so I wanted to clear that up.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I've never had any reason to view ANY WOMAN as my "rival" (and DEFINITELY NOT my H's CHILD) although I've never had a shortage of women who view me that way...
Lol! You DO realize we are
Lol! You DO realize we are talking about my H's 11.8yo daughter here, right? Um, yeah, since I'm pretty sure my H is NOT an incestuous pedophile, I think we can safely avoid wasting our precious counseling time on this topic (we have too many other REAL "issues" to deal with!) Lol!
I think you mistook my "discomfort" with SD's behavior the wrong way. It is not uncommon to be uncomfortable with something you are unfamiliar with, especially when the only "experience" you have either tells you that its NOT "normal" because you've never seen it happen in your own similar situation, or WORSE that it COULD be "inappropriate" because the only example you have seen suggests this to be the case (i.e. the movie I referenced in the OP.) That's why I came here to see if others thought this was "normal", because it was NOT for me with my own "guilty" daddy whom I visited with eow when I was an 11.8yo pubescent girl (ahem...hence the comparisons to SD.)
"Rival"? Yeah I had to look that one up because it's not something that is part of my vocabulary. Unfortunately I suffer from high self esteem. I know...I do realize that may be a "problem" people don't see very often anymore, but I have accepted it and decided to live with it. Thanks for the concern though.
My use of the word 'rival'
My use of the word 'rival' was only in response to the tone of your initial post, mommylove. It just seemed that you were comparing yourself to your SD in your descriptions of how you developed compared to how your SD is developing, as well as how you may have acted as a child compared to how your SD is acting, your SD's specific affectionate actions toward her father and how she pretty much "competes" for her dad's affection - that there was a kind of "sizing up" of your SD; that you were comparing yourself to her, as well as how your DH reacts to her affections compared to how he reacts to yours, which is what rivals do. If that is not what you are doing, then please disregard my use of the word.
The father/daughter dynamic is difficult to understand, especially when a daughter begins to transition into a young woman. And many men turn away from their daughters at that point - they stop being affectionate, they feel uncomfortable being around their daughters, like they're a different creature. And we kind of are! But that's when girls need them their dads most, to show them how very valuable they are, how special and worthy of positive affection and attention. And if a girl doesn't get that positive reinforcement, she will go looking for it from others who will inevitably use her and abuse her need for that attention and affection.
I know. I was one of those little girls.
No problem. Thanks!
No problem. Thanks!
I don't think its "normal".
I don't think its "normal". I think it sounds creepy.
I think that when something
I think that when something starts to make you uncomfortable is when it becomes not "normal."
There is appropriate and inappropriate touch, behavior and affection. Personally, I cant relate to you SD in the terms of EVER wanting to touch my father that much or in those ways. I was always taught boundaries and adhered to them. Having boundaries didn't hurt me. They helped!! When it comes to my husband, I give(and get) all the appropriate and inappropriate touching I could want-(wink wink, Chicka Chicka Bow Bow...lol) It's part of what makes our marriage OUR marriage. We have to share each other with the world -except for that....it makes it special (not to sound corny)
Personally, I dont think kids these days are taught clear enough boundaries...I think it would do her good- especially if her dad is feeling a bit uncomfortable...maybe there's an underlying issue?
Good luck !!
I think it is inappropriate
I think it is inappropriate for her to be straddling a male at her age (shocked to hear this is ok)? and her dad needs to tell her, that is not nice and don't do it.
Sammy you are very lucky to
Sammy you are very lucky to have a DH who acknowledges that there is her time and your time and communicates that with her...that is what functionality is all about...if some of DH's were more like yours than there would be a lot less discontent.
I think it's weird. I have a
I think it's weird. I have a bio daughter who is 18 and that never happened in our home when she was younger teen, pre-teen. Only the 'I love you' a kiss and a hug. I can't even recall them ever sitting on the couch together holding hands, even when she was little.
I think SD mite be jealous of
I think SD mite be jealous of her Dad and SM relationship, and just acting out, there is a place and time for everything,SD need to back off a little,and SM need to speak to her, or H.
If your SD11 is any sign of
If your SD11 is any sign of how my SD6 will be in years to come, I am packing now. Your SD maybe just like my SD where her boundaries are all jacked up. This comes from BM telling SD to hug everyone, tell everyone you love them, miss them, want to be with them, everyone means something and she needs to remind them she is special too... affection for affection sake and not because you really feel it. It’s rather sickening when I think about it too often.
I would feel very uncomfortable with how you describe the interactions with your H. There are certain things that are not necessary for children to do. Excessive touching and what not, is that all really needed at her age? I can see a baby or toddler that is still very dependant on knowing mom and dad are there and not going anywhere, but at almost 12? Does she not get told she is loved and showed she is loved by the action in the home? A peck on the cheek, a hug but what else is really needed? And with the porn thing... perhaps she needs some therapy to find out why she needs to watch this at her age? I wasn’t even thinking of boys at her age, I was climbing trees, and riding dirt bikes.
There must be lines drawn for boys and mom and daughters with fathers. I do not believe in the term "Daddy’s girl"... is that term the same as a boy being called a "Mommas boy" which for the majority of boys would be like spitting in their face. Girls need to be raised to feel loved and know they are loved, but to be fawned over by a father and given a false sense that Mr. Right will be just like "daddy" is rather mental in my book. I don’t want anymore remotely like my father, that’s just nasty.
Good luck, I do hope it gets better.
I think it all depends on who
I think it all depends on who you ask as you can see here with the responses you have already gotten. It boils down to this, how does your dh feel about it? If he is uncomfortable he needs to start winging her away. He needs to starting saying things like you are too big to being doing this. You need to talk to him about it and see how he feels and if he is only not saying something to her to not hurt her feelings then he needs to step up and start backing her off. If your dh is fine with it then leave it. good luck. I know I would be very uncomfortable with it as I'm not a touchy feely person anyway.
After reading the rest of the
After reading the rest of the responses I have to say that I don't in any way think mommylove sees sd as a rival or anything of that nature. I just think she was wanting to see if this was normal since she doesn't have much experience with it. There is nothing wrong in confriming what you already feel to be an uncomfortable situation. And as she already said her dh she felt is uncomfortable with this.
Mommylove as I already said if your dh is uncomfortable with this then it is time to tell sd that she is too big now. He needs to put a stop to it. It doesn;t matter if we or anyone else thinks it is normal but what he and you are comfortable with.
My sister and I never did
My sister and I never did this kind of behavior with our dad. My daughter did not do this with her dad. I have never seen my 13 yo stepdaughter do this. If she did I would be freaking out. I would have a talk with DH to explain why and how this would need to stop. Ditto above. I have only ever witnessed I love you and a hug and a kiss on the head. No sitting together.
I do not think this is normal
I do not think this is normal at all. I have a 9 year old daughter that does not act this way with her biological dad or step dad. She loves both of them but the head massage, sprawling of legs, constant touching, etc is NOT normal.
It sounds to me like she is actually jealous of you and looks at you as her rival, not the other way around like someone before me mentioned.
I would tell my husband exactly how this looks and that it is very unhealthy and not normal at all.
I also want to add that I
I also want to add that I grew up a Daddy's girl. Myself nor my younger sister ever acted this way towards our father or stepfather. Once again I agree with you that it is not normal.
Not "Normal"
I am in the same situation.. My SD is 16 but acts 11... She is constantly rubbing H hair and shoulders and inner locks fingers when holding hands and strokes his arm, lays her head on his chest etc.... I personally think its very wrong. I have 4 kids of my own my oldest a 14 y/o son and I couldnt imagine him touching me like that. There are ways of saying no without hurting feelings. My H wont say anything to his daughter either bc in his eyes they never do wrong. But it turns my stomach to watch my 16 y/o SD rub on her dad like that. She has even begun sending him weird text messages and constantly tells him how much she miised the times he lived in another town and it was just the 3 of them (her, her brother, 17 and their dad) idk what to do about it either but I certainly can't handle it much longer.