These kids who lie, bully, demand, manipulate, lack compassion and so forth grow up to become people who lie, bully, demand, manipulate and who lack compassion, don't they?

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Yes, they will have the same attitude towards people and things. They won't change unless the do some internal soul searching which most people of never considered or done. Most of these children (to be adults) believe it's not their fault it's other people who have made them who they are. That could be true. For the most part, I believe it's the patents and other adults who set the wrong example and as a stepparent we are one person fighting an up hill battle.

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I guess what I'm asking is this - Do you believe that we should just accept bad behaviour because they 'can't help it, they haven't been taught any different'?

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I don't believe we do have to accept it. I feel some of us do accept it because we value our relationship with SO more than the relationship or lack of one with stepchildren. However, I believe if you stand by your moral convictions and standards (supposedly those were the same ones SO loved about you to start) you will make the right choice and act in good faith. Children need structure and discipline. They also need love and understanding. But to allow and accept behavior that in the 'real world' would not be tolerated by an adult should apply to the child as well.

That’s really heavy…
And all I keep coming back to is what MY mom would say if I sat across the table with her and asked… and what she’d say is “they can be what they were “raised” to be anywhere else… but not in MY house!”

And that’s really the only answer… jerks will be jerks but what you *allow* around yourself and your loved ones really depends on you and how you handle the situation. I think about this all the time when it comes to our BM… that she makes the decisions she does and parents the way she does because of how she was raised, and what are ya gonna do? But that doesn’t mean she can say harmful things around me or DH, and that doesn’t mean that we won’t be honest to her about things when she asks our opinions. My mom taught me to control what I can and try not to sweat the things I can’t… ultimately it’s the rotten persons problem, not mine.

*laughs*
Another Momma-Moon favorite was always… *when looking at a bratty little shit in public*
“That kid just wasn’t raised right…”

We shouldnt accept it, but we make life a living hell for ourselves when we try to fix it. So, really it is a generational cycle, sd/ss takes on bm's personalities, that we all know sm's cannot change. All we can do, is drip, drip, drip a little advice to dad, if we have the energy left that is, and hope some of it sinks in and he, and only he, is able to correct. Yes?

This is one of the biggest struggles DH & I have had with his kids. Kids learn by example. When they watch a parent lie, cheat, use, & deceive, & get away with it, that's what a child learns is the way to be. Of course, we're all taught...in school, if no where else, that those things are wrong to an extent. If they see mom or dad lying & getting their way, they learn that that's what works. If mom is asking them to keep secrets from dad, they're doing what they're expected by their parent to do. Different parents take things to different exptremes. After living years of their lives this way, they become a mini-mom/dad. An adult is encouraging & supporting for lying to a judge or the other parent to get their way. It's what they're taught IS acceptable.

One of the reasons my DH took BM to court repeatedly after BM told him his kids didn't want to spend visitation time with him was because we didn't want to give BM the opportunity to tell the kids that DH gave up, or that he didn't try hard enough. He tried until the judge left it up to the kids. Now, them not having DH in their lives is on them. At 14 & 17, they will be held accountable for that choice.

It really is hard though, to witness what they've experienced & been taught by their mother, to hold them accountable for every choice they've made.

Poison Apples - it's a catch 22. Skids are a product of their upbringing BUT we shouldn't have to accept it. I think that many women on here are in the difficult situations they are in because at the first sign of "you're just the stepmom" they didn't bolt or stand up for themselves. It's really hard because it's a balancing act. And I have always believed that some of this stuff is completely and 100% worth fighting over with our spouses, even being willing to walk out over... and some of the stuff that is vented about on here is just too small to get worked up about.

But in a nutshell, the skids need compassion, but they don't need to a free pass.

but they cannot play the victim forever like their parents tend to. There comes a point where life is shit, families are shit at times but get over it, move on, do something positive instead of being the whole “oh poor me my whole life i’ve had it rough and caught in the middle between 2 fighting arguing parents so now the whole world must show compassion and not wrong me for my shitty behaviour/attitudes” 

these same kids have usually seen a bio mum milk daddy for everything, guilt him and manipulate him that those behaviours are ingrained without them realising and if its clearly noticeable you’re manipulating or guilting your parent, you see it as the norm.

These kids lack soul searching capabilities where they one day say to themselves, “mum and dad weren’t happy, they divorced, mum has been vindictive against dad, robbed me of my normal childhood but i can change for the better and whatever i do and achieve is because of my choices, my actions”. 

It annoys me they have excuses for everything and can’t just shut up when being disciplined and told off.

where my hubby is from, by law he must give his daughters away at wedding, they cannot bypass him unless he is dead or unfit in the eyes of their religion (none of which apply to him), knowing his ex and kids mentality they will expect hubby to cover wedding costs but if the ex says me and our kids are not welcome, i hope hubby backs me up and says he’s not coming because of how disrespectful they are being

i have contemplated all the toxic behaviours of these stepkids and especially ss, i won’t attend his engagement or wedding and wouldn’t force our kids to purely to save face and give an impression he’s a great person and real family man when the truth is he is so far from it. I wonder then when i tell hubby that, will he finally put his foot down and say how ashamed he is this kid is his son and did he really fail him this bad for him to treat us all this way that it had to get to this final point? How does he explain to his family why we don’t want to br present and play happy family

These kids have a flawed view of reality and need a good kick up the arse. Tip toing around them doesn’t fix anything and saying poor them they’ve had a rough life is just an excuse. These kids don’t break the mould till they get tough love I think