my kid is a bully?
So after 6 weeks of letting SO have every other weekend visits with his son, without interference from my bs13 and I, I have had enough. I had to basically force a hand to deal with this situation, and stop pretending that there is nothing wrong with this arrangement. Out of ss8 mouth, he wanted more alone time with dad, and doesn't want me and SO to live together because he doesn't want to be bullied. Ok then. Whatever. My problem is, SO thinks this is legitimate. As in, 6 weeks ago, we fought about this, and the. Ss8 said he just wanted some alone time with dad. I thought we were past the whole bully thing. Obviously not.
My question is, how to you address a situation, where you have a 5 year age difference with two boys, either siblings or step siblings? We have told them multiple times to keep their hands off each other, don't mess with each other Blagh Blagh Blagh. And always, at some point, they play fight, and wrestle and have a good time. But when ss8 is in a mood, it becomes a nightmare. He antaganizes bs13, shoots him the finger behind dads back, calls him stupid, follows him around, says mean things. When my son has had enough, he gets pissed, and starts in on him. Ss8 will poke, pinch stuff like that. What annoys the hell out of me, is when comes up in my face and snaps his fingers. I don't know why, but that one simple things just pisses me off.
But anyway, when they get at it, its all fun and games until ss8 goes to SO and says he is being 'bullied' like my son kicked him out of his room (because ss8 was kicking him in the back) or tells him to get out of his bathroom. Leave him alone stop following him etc. What's a kid to do? Ss8 does not have any boundaries. And SO actually got upset because bs13 kicked him out. Wth? It's like he is not SEEING this kids behavior, and its happening right in front of us in a small 2 bedroom apt.
To me there are many different types of bullying, and I think it goes both ways. The bs13 is Bigger Than ss8, and when it gets physical, bs13 is always going to win until their sizes match. But if you knew someone was bigger, wouldn't you STOP being mean and harassing the bigger kid? My son tries to ignore this kid, but ss8 is not easily ignored, and when u ignore him, he gets worse.
I don't know what to do with this situation. I don't want my kid to bully an 8 year old but at the same time, I can see what happens. And we have tried the whole hands off crap, and its hard to define that line when they are getting along and play wrestling, and your just happy to see it.
Everytime I try to bring this to with SO , he starts getting defensive, and upset, and still thinks that no matter what, my son shouldn't be acting that way. It causes an argument everytime, and ends up with us defending and justifying our kids behavior.
And I feel like I'm the only one trying to find solutions, SO just seems to accept it as my kid is a bully, and keeping our relationship going, and just not seeing each other with both kids is a solution. But its not working for me. It's been 6wks, and we haven't moved forward on anything. We have barely even discussed. Guess it was working for him.
Any suggestions would be helpful. I'm not used to multiple kids!
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I wish you a speedy solution.
I wish you a speedy solution. I have the same thing (same age difference and everything ) and no real advice. It seems they expect the older KID to act like being antagonized in their own space is okay. Which, in reality just causes more problems with older child and dh/So.
Yeah, and I can't help but
Yeah, and I can't help but think that maybe the ss8 is creating this because he WANTS SO to dislike bs13. Or at least cause strife between them. Is that a stretch for an 8 yr old? Would he be able to come up with a scheme like that? I don't know. But I cat help but thinking it.
I actually mentioned that to SO during the first argument about this. He didn't seem to think that was the problem. But I have noticed that SO has made more effort to interact with my son. Maybe to show that I'm wrong. Who knows.
From what you have said your
From what you have said your ss and bs are winding each other up at times, however unfortunately your ss is not being parented appropriately when he continues to annoy and aggravate other people. Hes going out of his way to provoke your bs and you, to get a response. It seems to be that 1) he does it because its one way he is getting attention and a response from your SO by crying wolf 2) all children can become wind up merchants if they arent told to toe the line, your SO doesnt provide appropriate guidelines and consequences for ss so he is not learning anything about boundaries 3) he may be doing this because he wants to split you and SO up and knows his father will always side with him.
From where I am sitting, your bs is NOT bullying ss. Your ss is being a little annoying sneak and unfortunately your bs continues to interact with him.
I have found when you are in a situation where one person is completely blinded by bio blinkers then the ONLY thing to do is change how YOU and your BS interact with ss...by completely and utterly ignoring him. When ss acts out and starts picking fights with bs, then I would advise him to not fall into the trap of allowing ss to fall back into the victim role but instead come to you and tell you what is happening e.g. "ss will not leave me alone. Could you please ask him to stop annoying me....ss is making obscene gestures, I want him to leave me alone please"
If SO just tells you and BS to ignore him being rude, annoying and disruptive, then inform SO that you will not ignore a child disrespecting and picking on other people. That you and BS have the right to peace in your home and that SO cannot blame BS for reacting to constant and incessant harassment and provocation by his son. Being eight doesnt excuse him acting like a punk, and all SO is doing is making things worse by ignoring him and expecting you and BS to continue being his targets.
Personally I think you have a nightmare on your hands and I wouldnt want to be around them, not only for my sanity for more so for BS because its unfair and wrong that your SO and his son are labelling BS a bully, when its his child causing problems. It sounds like you dont live together yet as ss is ruling his father. Well, if he is doing this now and your SO is allowing him to then this is what will happen throughout your relationship I am afraid.
If you continue giving everything to your relationship, allowing SO access to you while he treating you with such disrespect (allowing his son to act in this manner, control his relationship with you and actively supporting him behaving in this manner IS disrespectful), then you are enabling him because your SO is getting everything he wants on a plate. Personally I would be withdrawing from him, I would NOT want to be around his son (and if he uses this as a threat to end the relationship he is controlling you, and I would tell him to end the relationship then) in fact use his words against him, and I would be making sure I would be filling my weekends with fun and not being available when he snapped his fingers. Make him work for it, use the power YOU have = YOU. If he cares and wants you, then he will WORK for it and that includes stopping being a spineless twat when it comes to his son (he has no problems saying no to you and your son now does he?).
Hey there Delilah....great
Hey there Delilah....great answer. Well thought out, and full of good, real advice. I'm sure OP will see some results putting your suggestions into practice...and I am forwarding your response to a SM friend of my own that is having similar issues in her home. Your post is one of the major reasons I love STalk. You are an asset here.
If your son was the 8 year
If your son was the 8 year old, and SS was the 13 year old, I'd imagine you'd feel much the same way. That's a big age difference.
These kids aren't siblings and haven't grown up around each other. My sons are 4 years apart, and I don't have any of these kinds of issues. (Thank God.)
Can you find a way to give each of these boys some personal space? Do they share a room?
One of the most important things I've learned (much the hard way) through stepping is that just because the fella and I fell in love does NOT mean that everyone else (kids, ILs, etc.) just "fall in line." These two boys didn't ask to be thrown together, and if it wasn't for their parents, they would likely never hang out together.
Now, any kid that comes up in my face and snaps his fingers...well, he'd only do it once. That is just so disrespectful.
Yes 8 year holds can ce up
Yes 8 year holds can ce up with schemes. Ss7 has since he was 4 in regards to manipulating who is seen as the "good" kid. Plain and simple, he doesn't know how to promote himself, so its easier to show fault in someone else. Especially when it's provoked. Yes so SHOULD be saying what started it/ stop tattling / its his room he doesn't have to let you in. If nothing else, to show your son he does understand ss8 is being a pest. But reality, he probably wont. Ask so what if it were reversed and your son was doing it? Might get the he's older speech and if you do then you move on to the what if it was a classmate or neigher of the same age. Good luck!
I really appreciate the
I really appreciate the feedback. Maybe this will help make some improvements. At least give us a direction to go in...
Thank you!
Actually, physically they are
Actually, physically they are pretty close. The 8 year old cant even wear the 13yr olds hand me downs because they are too small. So you say the 13 is bullying? Even though the 8 year old is instigating stuff, and hits and punches and kicks the 13 ? Moat of the time, its hard to tell where it starts and ends. The majority of the 8 yr stuff is taunting and harassing, (not leaving the 13 year old alone when he asks him to) . The 13 year old has even went to his room and shut the door, and the 8 year ill will just stand outside the door, calling him, and talking, and etc, like there wasnt a door between them.
The 8 yr ill clearly doesn't recognize personal space, even with me. Like I said, he will come in front of me and snap his fingers right in my face, my mother and I both watched as he rummaged through jewelry my box while dad was in the bathroom. Stuff Like that, even to my things.
And no, he doesn't have a room here, my old house, I had an extra bedroom, and that sort of became his room, but I just can't afford to pay for a 3 bedroom for my bfs kid, who might be here one or two nights a month.
Yes, the ss8 is the visitor.
Yes, the ss8 is the visitor. We don't live together. I used to have a 3 bedroom home, and ss8 had his 'i
Own room' (but since he gets to choose what to keep there, it didn't have much in it), but both kids used to camp out in the den when he visited. He wasn't interested in his room. I had to move, and we have a 2 bedroom apt now. Bs13 actually tried to let the ss8 sleep with him, in his room, but ss8 would kick him, harass bs13 and not let him sleep. So ss8 ended up on the futon watching tv alone all night (SO does not enforce a 'bedtime' on ss8, he sleeps and wakes up when HE wants to)
If your SS is non resident,
If your SS is non resident, and your son now lives with SS's Dad, maybe there is a lot of underlying insecurity and competiveness fuelling the flighting. Subconsciously SS may feel that someone else has got HIS Dad. If he's staying in your son's room there's even more competiveness for space in his fathers life. I think this can be particularly important with boys because their relationship with their Dad is so important.
I would try these approaches:
1. Get out of the house more because that's quite a pressure cooker of issues. I think boys are like puppies, they need to be taken out to blow off steam, and they open up more when they're engaged in an activity
2. Support your SO in spending quality alone time with his son to reassure him he is important, just not all weekend, because you do need to work on being a family
3. Take the boys on some mixed age activity for a few weekends so they can spend time together not fighting and learn to get along and tolerate each other - bowling, movies, theme parks for example. Obviously every weekend can't be a party but a bit of intensive effort in the short term might pay off in the long term
4. Try to prioritise some space for SS, maybe he'd be better sleeping on a put up bed in the living room or other room, give him some stuff and space to store it that feels like his own ( you may have already done this but I'm just brainstorming everything I can think of)
5. Write down some rules about behaviour together: privacy, fighting etc, and consequences, then try really hard to BOTH enforce them on BOTH children fairly
6. Talk to your son, try to get him to see how SS might be feeling and see if he can try to keep a lid on his temper and walk away or ask for intervention if SS is provoking him
Hope this is some help!
We have tried some of this.
We have tried some of this. SO and I don't live together, and basically can't because of this situation. Even when ss8 had his win room, he didn't want to be in it. I believe a lot of the problem, is he just cat stand to be in his own space. He is always in someone else's. If I am sitting next to SO, and get up, ss8 jumps in the spot. If ss13 has had enough, and goes to his room to take a break, ss8 is outside the door. We tried to do the list of rules, but ah hmm, some of rules were violated, and SO did not Hehehe to the punishment, so I ripped them up because it was useless to have one doing it and not the other.
When we do go on outings, as long as its something ss8 wants to he doing, all is well. We once even tried to take a cheap outing to a park, and because ss8 had no interest, he sulked and whined and wasn't happy. I lost my patience and was like f'it, this is not a good time for anyone with this going on. He controls the entire situation, and how he feels about it, determines if we all have fun or not. And SO can't stand to see ss8 upset or unhappy, so then, well, he gets coddled, and promises made to .make it better.
And now, the ss8 is pretty much controlling my relationship and any plans SO AND I would have. Deliah pretty much hit the nail on the head with her post.
And its hard, because you either have to listen to it, and be miserable, or leave and he gets his way.
I guess I must be confused
I guess I must be confused then. Because a child is five years older HE must be a bully? Sorry, if a child is being told to get out of someone's personal space because he is being physically assaulting I don't see the person that told him to leave as being a bully. I see them as being smart by not resorting to beating the crap out of him. Regardless of size. At these ages, they don't have a whole lot in common. Kids need their own space, just like adults. The main thing is the 13 year old needs to remember to respect the 8 year holds space and things too. Doesn't mean 8 will respect that, but at least 13 knows he's treating like he wishes to be.
Exactly! But they actually do
Exactly! But they actually do have a lot in common, although that is dwindling as bs13 becomes more teenagerish. I have expressed this time and time again, that SS8 does not bring anything to do with him to my home. And the things that dad buys him (every weekend) never stay here. So ss8 does not have anything here. I had to pitch a fit because the swimming trunks that so bought again, because they came over without any belongings, needed to stay here, as we were swimming every weekend. It's like he just shows up, doesn't bring his psp, or toys, or clothes and we are expected to accommodate him. Numerous times, ss8 has had to wear bs13 shorts( like I said before, they are pretty close to the same size in clothes, so much that bs13 hand me downs don't fit) or something to go out to dinner because he has nothing here, and doesnt bring even clothes with him nice enough to go to dinner.
We discussed that somewhat
We discussed that somewhat last night. I tried to explain to SO that ss8 is always stuck up bs13 tail, and its not my 13 yr old responsiblity to entertain ss8. Bs13 is getting to the age where he spends a lot of time in his room, away from me even, and ss8 takes it personal, and starts getting mad, and thinks that some how, we are supposed to MAKE SS13 play with him. And if we don't, all we hear is, I'm bored, bs13 is being mean, I want to go home. And bs13 did this to me. Ss8 will sit outside the door, and yell at bs13 different stuff, or beg him to come in. It's maddening. But yet, the first thing on the phone, ss8 is asking dad what me and bs13 are doing, and wants to come over, and asks if they r coming over. Even at my grandmothers, we were visiting and SS8 begged SO to stay and spend the night with us, instead of going back to SO place. So things like that make me think this bullying stuff is a bunch of crap.
If you and you're BF aren't
If you and you're BF aren't living together, he's right about keeping the boys, apart.
No matter what SS does, as soon as things get physical, your son will be viewed as the bully because of the age difference.
I agree with you 100% when it
I agree with you 100% when it comes to family.
But when it comes to a BF's or GF's kids, if they can't get along, keep them away from each other.
Can you imagine what will happen when BM gets wind of this?
Biomom is a methhead, and
Biomom is a methhead, and doesn't have custody of ss8. She lives with SS8 and her mom, who actually has custody of the SS8. Grandma is supporting both of them, as BM doesn't work, have a license, or car. She actually told SO that he needed to see SS8 more often because he needs to be here. Basically so she could party more, instead of being a babysitter for the grandma. That, or because she was well aware of the issues (at least ss8 side of the story), and wants him to visit more so SO and I see each other less. Hard to tell the reason.