Bathroom Saga of the 5 year old. (Long)
I've been writing about SO's son's bathroom issues for a while. The kid was potty trained over a year ago then in the spring for no apparent reason he stated pooping in his pants.
We have no clue how big of an issue this is at BM's because we get mixed responses from:
"It doesn't happen here."
"It only happens because he can't take off his pants fast enough."
And then she did take him to a doctor without telling SO but he found out because she posted on Facebook that the doctor claimed the child needed to see a therapist. SO called the doctor himself and confirmed this was the recommendation. BM refuses to take the child.
Now let's add that over the summer while the kids were with us the extended time the problem went away. Not only has it come back over the fall but this weekend the kid has pooped in his pants atleast 3+ times.
We're at a loss and the kid is "hiding" his underwear now.
We tried having him sit down try to go and not an hour later he pooped his pants again. Going to the bathroom is actually turning into a problem because anytime he doesn't want to do something it's "I've got to go to the bathroom," yet he still poops his pants. He can go to the bathroom 3 times while we're sitting at the dinner table then still poop his pants in the hour before bed. He has litterally gome to the bathroom then pooped his pants less than 30 minutes later.
SO is trying to get the kid to a therapist but BM is high conflict in general and worse when it comes to doctor visits. She absolutely controls these. Besides living an hour away and working nights SO has to deal with the fact that the kids insurance is in her name so she finds out everything. He would have to go completely behind her back and still have to get lucky to take the kid himself and that would only lead to hell.
Their divorce is currently sitting on the waiting list for a hearing so court isn't going to be helping any time soon.
We know this is a behavior thing but BM refuses to work with us.
We don't know what to do but we can't keep doing this. The kids poop makes us sick and we're literally playing sniff games of hide and seek.
Talking to the kid doesn't help of course but we do have him handle the underwear which right now involves it just being thrown away because we're not talking just tiny little bits left.
So other than still trying to get him help and not knowing what more we can do in our home we're trying to figure out how to handle the ruined underwear. We just bought new underwear last weekend and we need more again. I refuse to scrape crap out of a 5 year olds underwear and SO is litteraly puking just having the boy pick them up from where we find them.
I'm stuck between either making the child wash them out before throwing them in the wash. And putting the kid back in pull ups when he's with us.
I hate the first answer and it's more of just being desperate to fix the problem. I really don't feel a 5 year old should be handling poop like that.
The second answer though scares me too. I don't know if it's going to make it worse. Weather the boy will regress more or BM will blow a fuse and raise all hell.
And once more the kid has seen a medical doctor and had xrays and other test. This is not phsycial. He's going regurally trust me and it's not too hard or runny either. TMI I know but my point is it's normal poop just not in the toilet. The child has no mental issues or delays. In all other ways he's a "normal" child. He's happy (laughing and playing with his sister right now instead of cleaning the room as he's been asked.) He eats well, doesn't wet the bed, we don't notice nightmears nor does he say anything about them.
We have no idea why it started. There wasn't anything new with us really. I'd been with his dad for 9 / 10 months. SO had moved in eith me atleast 3 months before this started. We don't know of big changes that happened at his mom's as her home ehile hectic before had been rather stable as far as we knew. No deaths of family.
I'm sorry for rambling. I'm really at a loss this weekend. I'm trying to provide everything I know. I can tell SO is lost too. He's contacted BM again but that doesn't do anything.
Thank you.
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Get him Pull-Ups for his
Get him Pull-Ups for his weekends with you. Not your ideal, but they are meant to be thrown away. And don't get the cool looking ones; plain Pull-Ups that are way less cool than his underwear.
If he can still, SO could add SS to his insurance and take SS to a therapist that way. Until there is a CO, he has equal rights and responsibilities to his kids. BM could throw a fit, but as I've said before, let her explain to a judge why she is hysterical over Dad taking his son to see a therapist to help with problems in his home at the recommendation of a doctor.
Also, I know it's not ideal, but you all may need to see about moving closer to the kids and/or their school/doctor/activities. If SO wants to be more involved, he's going to have to live closer.
SO's insurance offering is a
SO's insurance offering is a joke and does not cover anything. We looked at it in-depth and were actually able to modify the future CO to stop him from having to carry it for the kids. Even vindictive EX took a moment to understand how worthless it was.
As for moving closer it is in the works. We have every intent of doing so and then going for 50/50. If it all works out we will be within the school district by the end of summer.
The original move away was to handle her psychotic behavior while there was no court order in place. Its hard to explain how much it improved everyone's lives. Even the children. No more being randomly left at dad's door while mom sped away to go get drink with some random guy. No more calls to his work every 5 minutes there for leading to him possibly being let go. No more random friend of hers showing up where we were and then gettjng 30 text messages and 10 phone calls.
But yes we do intend to move closer and are working on the different aspects of a move.
I don’t think dad needs to
I don’t think dad needs to wait for BM to work with him. If there is no CO and he is still legally married to her, he has legal rights and legal responsibilities to take care of a child. He doesn’t need a permission. He needs to make an appointment and take a child to see a professional and perhaps either pay out of pocket or add him to his insurance.
I understand therapy is expensive. He might need to look for better paid job. He makes just above minimum wages (you said about 25k a year?), I don’t see how he can raise 2 kids onthat and he isn’t paying CS. How is he going to live when he has to pay? You said he was injured in the army. Is he receiving pension from the army? If not, why not?
I understand that he might have health concerns but kids cost money, my DH has a disability (not ON disability) and full time career is not easy but your SO can’t continue living this way. BM is crazy but dad has equal rights.
I agree about moving closer. No not next door with crazy BM but closer than where he is now.
If kids have issues, seing them 4 days a month is not going to help.
It's not just expensive it's
It's not just expensive it's that she won't let it happen. She has disappeared with the kids to prevent things from happening in the past. Or withheld the children before and for am extended period afterwards as revenge.
SO is waiting on his case with military to be reviewed. I know from experience this can take upwards of 2 years in extreme cases.
The child support is being placed in a savings account and will be paid as required by the CO as soon as the court provides the information needed to set up the account so that's not a relevant issue. Basicly he is paying as required she's just not getting it because the CO states it must be paid through the state. Does you partner have the ability to pay double CS for 6+ months? Oh all within a few weeks of a case being closed?
Fincial situation is improved but not something we can afford to put down over 150 every week until the kid is better. Well atleast not if we want to move closer to the kids in less than a year which is the plan.
His insurance does NOT cover mental health.
My SS is 4 and he is doing
My SS is 4 and he is doing the same thing. My SO thinks it’s because he is to busy playing to stop and go to the toilet but I disagree as sometimes he is doing nothing when he does it. I think it is an attention thing as he is very jealous of me and mine and SO 12 month old. When he poops himself he gets his dad all to himself while he’s dealing with it. Even though SO has started getting angry with him for doing it every weekend at least it’s 10 minutes where his dad is all his and I just get filthy looks from a four year old in the process.
We have no idea if he does it at his BMs house though as they don’t talk. He can’t go to the toilet without making an absolute mess of himself and he is meant to start school next year.. so that will be interesting. Does your SS go to school? If so does he have any problems with it while he’s there?
But if they aren’t to far gone, my SO makes him clean his underwear himself in the shower and then he puts them in the wash, to try and discourage him from doing it. With the mentality of If you are going to poop in your pants and not want to clean it then why should anyone else have to. I refuse to touch them or wash them with any of mine or my children’s clothes.
I understand your struggle! I hope you get answers as to why he is doing this!
Kid says he does it at school
Kid says he does it at school also but SO intends to find out for sure. The child is suppose to be kicked out if he's not potty trained. We have found out from a few other people that watch him that it's not just our place.
The kid claims he's too busy but what do we do when we have him sit then 30 minutes later he poops his pants.....
Honestly he said something today that makes me think it is attention seeking in nature but from BM. Not sure since of course I'm not that kind of therapist.
Is he doing this at school?
Is he doing this at school? Don't ask BM, ask the school if you don't know the answer.
I'd let the kid sit on the pot for a while. If he's pooping within 30-60 minutes after he plays 'I gotta go to the bathroom' , call me mean, but I'd leave him sitting there for that extra 30-60 minutes. Let him hear sister out in the there having fun.
Might not work, if not , oh well, worth a shot. As long as you all are home and not going out, I'd leave him on the pot ... he's got to poop sooner or later since he always manages to poop 30-60 minutes later anyway. As you just said, kid is running around having a good ol' time. Maybe no good time until he poops. So what if he sits on the pot for 30 to 60 minutes? It isn't hurting him nor shaming him, it's just giving him plenty of time to get that poop out. You sit on the pot until you poop. So does Dad and big sister. Poop goes in the pot.
Poop in pot, then go play. If it's dinner time, surely you can warm up his plate in the micro. You might even have his favorite food for dinner one night. The quicker the poop hits the pot, the sooner he's done and ready to eat. I wouldn't be above bribing the kid to poop in pot. Wanna a cool new toy kid? Start pooping in the pot!
IDK. If you had two stools in the same bathroom, I'd tell you to put Dad on one pot and kid on the other and let them have a poop contest, lol.
Actually I'm clueless on what to do (I am aware my suggestions aren't overly helpful on this ) and understand how frustrating it has to be.
The kid did respond to a
The kid did respond to a bribe sort of over the summer. He was clearly told of he had accidents at day camp he wouldn't be able to go..... thing is it didn't last.
He might respond as we want but the second you stop rewarding him evidence shows he will stop.
AGREE if there is no co dad
AGREE if there is no co dad is on equal footing as mom.
Good idea with pull ups. We would have done the same. Also quick look see from doc.
Yep and BM can withhold the
Yep and BM can withhold the children as long as she wants and they can magically not be at school the day of the appointment.
Oh and the court can just tell her to knock it off as they are known to do.
If he starts up again once
If he starts up again once the bribery is over then I’d say it is clearly something he is in full control of.
Maybe making him deal with it himself (as gross and horrid as it may be) might make him realise hey this is yuk, I don’t want to clean my own poop and then he will knock it off.
Or use pull ups, we tell SS that we are going to get him nappies like his baby brother and he freaks out cause “he’s not a baby” then stop acting like one by pooping in your underwear! SO hasn’t followed through with them yet because I think he is also worried like yourself that he will regress further and just do it more and to a worse extent.
After he does it SO will make SS sit on the toilet till he goes but he usually will just shout I’m done and when dad goes in to check and nothing is there he says “it went down the drain” so he will have to sit there for as long as it takes.
It’s not a medical thing with my SS either. It’s starting to become really frustrating not being able to go anywhere without him doing it!
We are pretty set on the pull
We are pretty set on the pull ups. They may not in anyway fix it but atleast in the long run it will cost less.
Has he seen a pediatric
Has he seen a pediatric gastroenterologist? He could have a blockage that causes him not to have control of what leaks around it. This has been the case for more than one skid with poop problems on this board.
The boy has seen a doctor and
The boy has seen a doctor and had Xrays as well as a complete examine. SO called the doctor who stated there was no medical reason he could see nor did he have reason to think there was need for anything more. He said this is behavioral and the kid needs to speak to a therapist.
This isn't leakage. It's laziness. There are times where you can tell he was on his way to the bathroom and didn't make it. Then there are times you have to wash all of his clothes because it was so much the underwear couldn't hold it. There are times he makes it just fine.
Him having 6 weeks without accidents in the summer then going right back to the same thing doesn't help make it seem like anything medical also.
How about no underwear or
How about no underwear or diapers(i know i know buck naked is something many of you balk at)
The idea behind commando is that thw first times he does it it will feel ao gross just running down his leg that he will go to the potty next time.
We do not feel safe having a
We do not feel safe having a half naked 5 year old running around in the house.
We are pushing privacy EXTREMELY hard because we also have his older sister in the home as well as me.
We take all precautions to make sure there is NEVER anything that BM could twist and get CPS to come in to our home and find true. Forcing the child to run around pretty much naked seems like asking for trouble.
Sounds like a real control
Sounds like a real control issue. Especially as he uses it to avoid things he doesn't want to do etc and it seems he's getting a lot of attention (albeit negative attention) for it. It's very difficult to work with problems like this in a divorced family, especially with a psychological/behavioural aspect there. Bm might be handling things very differently that his father would etc.
I think Chasing has some good suggestions there. The more that is made of it the more he will do it though. Maybe he is trying to stay a 'baby'. I think I would use a reward system for keeping clean.
Every time we use a reward
Every time we use a reward system it comes back to hurt us. The kid will "get better" then the second you stop the reward he retaliates by stopping the good behavior.
This is not something we think will happen but we know and have repeatedly experienced with him. The child had 6 weeks of no accidents while he was in our home over the summer. As soon as he returns to BM the behavior comes back. Given it was minor but it keeps increasing.
Here's what we used to do
Here's what we used to do (old fashioned approach)
"Junior, we know you are not getting to the toilet on time, which is something a baby would do. From now on there will be no more big boy activities. No more video games, screens, etc. (no more privacy in his own room)" Get creative. Is there a fav food he likes? Nope because babies cant eat it.
"Junior, when you're ready to stop acting like a baby then we have even more big boy fun planned (trip to bowling alley, fancier vid game, fishing trip, etc)"
Be consistent. Kids need to know their parents are more stubborn than they are. Goes a long way in ending bad behavior. Of course, Dad needs to back you up 100%. We had to deal with this with our BM, the Girhippo. Uber high conflict and skids had to be put on her insurance (I'm pretty sure PASed out skids are now on StepDaddyBigBuck's insurance as she quit her CPS job and he works for a fortune 500 company.)
BM will be pissed that you are treating "her son" (TM) as a baby, but with a high conflict BM, there's no way to avoid that. parallel parenting is a must.
I agree. It's a similar
I agree. It's a similar approach that many people take with teens, too, when they don't handle their newfound freedom well. "Oh, you can't be trusted with the car? Looks like you're going to be riding the bus with your little brother and the other young teens."
OP, if you don't like the idea of calling him a baby, then go with the approach of, "since you can't pull yourself away from X, Y, and Z activity long enough to use the restroom, you won't get to do it anymore." Then take the video games, tablet, ability to play alone, etc. Ask him every 15 minutes if he needs to use the bathroom, and make him go every 30 minutes to one hour. Add all that with Pull-Ups and he will (hopefully) stop the behavior pretty quickly because he's going to get bored only being able to play short games and getting pulled away to the bathroom all the time.
SO kind of started this on
SO kind of started this on Sunday. The boy wanted to play video games and in between pulling the stuff he needed out he had another accident. SO said no video game because of him not listening to his body. I can talk to him about keeping this up.
If the child poops
If the child poops inappropriately the child cleans it up. All of it. No matter how long it takes or how disgusting it is. He will wash his underwear out in the sink, he will put his underwear in the washing machine, he will empty the lint trap on the dryer and dry his underwear. Then he will fold it and put it away. If poop gets on anything, he will scrub it until its clean to your standards. The idea is, make the fact that he poops in his pants HIS problem, not yours. If he does it, he is going to deal with it, no matter how long it takes him and no matter how much standing over his shoulder you need to do.
If this behavior still continues after a few times of having to clean it, then each successive incident will result in the removal of a privilege in addition to him having to clean it. Prior to him going in his pants, explain to him that IF he chooses to go in his pants, XYZ will occur. Start with one thing, like losing his bedtime story for the day. Once he goes in his pants, then explain that he lost bedtime stories because he chose to go in his pants, and the next time it happens he will lose bedtime stories AND video games. After it happens, explain the third time will be bed time stories, video games, and the TV. Continue on with this. Next his toys one by one, then juice, any preferred foods, start moving his bedtime earlier, you really can keep going with this until he just sits alone in a completely empty room all day eating nothing but porridge. Believe me, even if dad only has him 4 days a month no kid wants to spend 4 days a month locked in an empty bedroom with nothing but oatmeal and plain water.
I'd put him in a freaking
I'd put him in a freaking diaper.. not a pull up. Make it uncomfortable and annoying for him. Is he is school?? I'm guessing not? Does he want to go to school? I'd start reminding him that kids who poop their pants can't go to school.
Does the kid play video games? Is it the classic too lazy to get up and leave his game crap? (pun intended) If so time to take the mindless video games away too.
The kid is in school and I
The kid is in school and I have no clue how he hasn't been kicked out because yes that is a requirement of preschool. Very clear "MUST BE POTTY TRAINED."
We talked to him and hes impossible to get any sort of clear answer from but we believe he is having 'accidents' at school.(SO will be asking next pick up.) At the same time we know BM is up the teachers butt and always in the class room so she may be hiding it.... Or hell the boy hides it himself as we've seen.
I've got to work with SO on this. He agrees to pull ups. Also I don't think we can get a dipper big enough for the kid. He's 5 after all.
The kids do play video games but this isn't only connected to them as we do limit the time they can play. It's ALL THE TIME and even after he has just went to the bathroom. About the only normal thing is that TYPICALLY it doesn't happen outside of the house for us.
That's part of what makes me wonder if this really does have something to do with BM. I wrote about this. A few visits ago we had a party that BM was suppose to be working during but she showed up anyways. The kid had just been in the bathroom with dad for like 10 minutes. Then less than 30 minutes later and right as BM showed up apparently he pooped his pants again.
I just wish we could get an answer out of him for any of this. I mean when I found the underwear behind the toilet he first tried saying he didn't know where the laundry hamper is... I can't tell you how bullsh*t this answer is except to say you walk right into it when you leave the bathroom. Ask him why he hid them and he repeatedly says "I hid them behind the toilet." I KNOW THAT BUT WHY..... You can go round and round with him for 30 minutes and you might get some tiny little piece of the truth. The isn't mentally delayed or anything so this drives me insane.
The kid needs a therapist is what is going on. Something is wrong. SO feels he might have BM finally blocked in where she has to take the boy. She has the kids all week and only works weekends so she has no reasons other than she doesn't want to for some reason. SO sent messages about talking to the doctor. Repeated what he was told by family members who watch the kids. What the boy told him. How many accidents we had. Returned her own words to her. So on and so on.
Again somethings wrong and I really think its BM. I truly think she did something or is doing something. The kid acts wrong when he's "in trouble" and there's no reason for it. SO has NEVER harmed the boy or gotten anywhere near abuse. Yes there are consequences but both of the children just fall apart even if it's just being talked to about their behavior. The boy can't give you a straight answer for ANYTHING. The girl falls into tears for an hour when she's not prefect. I think BM has blocked the therapist because she doesn't want the kids to talk to someone. As soon as SO finds out who she actually allows to see the kids he will be making phone calls and he will be present.
He's tried making his own appointments to things in the past and she's stopped it so the best he can do is make sure his concerns are heard. If BM's therapist doesn't work he will see about setting something up when the kids are in our care again for an extended time but that's next summer.
Believe me they have diapers
Believe me they have diapers big enough I have a photo of soon-to-be seven yss who is easily the size of a 12 year old at that age in a pull up
That is a pull up which is
That is a pull up which is different then a diaper. They may make diapers that size but they aren't sold at Wal-Mart. Pull ups come in almost all sizes.