Parenting SD full time?
::deep breath::
I am engaged to a man that has a 6.5yo daughter. A year ago, we rented a place together and his daughter lives with us on a week-to-week basis. It hasn’t been easy, but it could be a lot worse. Her BM is a bit of a character, and we see some of those annoying traits in SD, but for the most part, she is a fine parent. My fiance doesn’t always agree, but I think he just resents the fact that BM takes time for herself while he doesn’t, and thus she’s being an “irresponsible parent.” As such, he dreams about taking full custody of SD so that we can be her sole influence and he’ll be sure that she’s being brought up to his standards.
Now I know it was my decision to get involved with a man that had a kid, and all the cards that we’re dealt pertaining to that. I take great care of his daughter - I’m patient, kind, help her with HW, play with her. He tells me this all the time, which just fuels his desire to want her full time, bc he thinks I’d do a better job than BM. He’s always talking about how much SD loves me and the influence I have on her. But for me, I don’t want to be her mom, bc she has a mom. My fiance is always looking for the day that I’ll love her like my own, but if I don’t treat her any different than if I had my own kids, what does that matter? We just started couples counseling bc I feel like we’re working on different projects - I’m the only champion for us as a couple, and his measure of success for the relationship is if we’re just like his first family, but w/o the failed marriage. He wants me to be her mom, even though fully acknowledging that we would never pressure SD to love me like her mom!
But I’m not looking for her to love me like her mom. I just want the both of us to treat each other with kindness and respect and let whatever relationship between us grow organically in whatever form it takes. I’d like to be a role model, provide support and guidance, but not necessarily be a mother. He thinks this is not enough - that if a random kid showed up on his doorstep that was now his responsibility, he’d take care of them like his own. Ah! Yes, he specifically said “take care of” vs “love” - I don’t know if he acknowledges a difference, or if there is a difference to him.
So my question is...is it wrong of me to want to keep the custody 50:50? I mean, I know that if something happened to BM we’d have to take SD full time, but that is not the case now. And I worry that bc I fear that ever happening, it means that I really shouldn’t be in this relationship. Fiance and I are just starting to really put in work on refocusing the relationship on us, so maybe I’d feel differently when I start feeling more like me and him are a team vs him and SD. I know some stepmoms complain about not having equal rights at parenting their stepkid, and here fiance wants to give me that (however delusional he is that BM would allow it, lol), but is it problematic for us that I don’t want that?
It's pretty selfish of him to
It's pretty selfish of him to want to take SD away from her mother, so he can "raise her to his standards." It shows a total lack of empathy for BM and for SD, quite frankly. Does he really think he's so awesomely fantastic that he can cut her mother, a "fine parent" in your words, out of her life and there will be no consequences? And does he truly believe that he can just replace her biological mother with you? How would he feel if BM proposed that very same thing in regard to him? That he just go away so she can replace him with her current boyfriend.
It's incredibly narcissistic and verging on parental alienation. AND, it's impossible. No court is going to hand him full custody if BM is a capable parent.
Yuck.
I think he realizes it's not
I think he realizes it's not a realistic possibility, but considering mom and dad still have a pretty antagonistic relationship, I'm not surprised one thinks they're better than the other? :\ I have no idea how honestly he thinks he can just replace BM with me, which just completely blows my mind.
You said yourself that BM is
You said yourself that BM is a fine parent. Why in the world would your fiance want to take his daughter away from her mother if BM is a decent parent? That makes no sense, and unless for some reason BM wanted to be an EOWE parent and agreed to it, it's not going to happen. I don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting to keep 50/50 custody so long as BM is willing and able to have half the parenting time. In fact, I think it is the right thing to do.
My SO has 50/50 custody of his daughters and I am A-OK with that. He would love to have them all the time, but he knows that even if BM would go along with that (she wouldn't), it wouldn't be fair to the girls because they love their mother and want to spend time with her. They love me and enjoy spending time with SO and me, but we would be delusional to think that I could (or should) replace their mom. SO also realizes that having a break from the kids is good for our relationship, and he's pretty good at prioritizing the relationship.
Because I'm the only one who
Because I'm the only one who thinks she's decent. He thinks she's looney tunes.
Good for your SO! That's so nice. :)
The time for him to choose
The time for him to choose the mother of his child was BEFORE he had a child with someone. He doesn't get to choose after the fact, and frankly, it's worrisome to a large degree that this is his philosophy.
I want you to take SD out of the equation for a moment and look at your own relationship, and your future. You're not incorrect in hoe you view any of this, so there is no need to focus on that. You're right, he's wrong, and it doesn't get more cut-and-dry than what you have described.
What I want YOU to think about, though, is whether YOU feel like you are going to be THE wife or the REPLACEMENT wife. We talk a lot on this board about how we "second wives" should be treated as THE wife, because that is what we are. We are our own person with our own goals, quirks, upsides, downsides, etc. We aren't an upgraded version of BM. We may be an upgrade from the previous relationship, but we aren't "XW/BM Version 2.0".
It doesn't sound like your FH sees you as THE wife. It sounds like he sees you as the replacement. He sees his first marriage as a failure, and instead of cultivating a new relationship and growing from his mistakes that fed into his divorce, he is just going to replace the piece that he thought was broken - the wife/mother.
That is an unhealthy thought process on a multitude of levels. But let's look and see what that means for your future. It means that 1) when you no longer fulfil his fantasy, he'll replace you, and 2) if you have any children, he'll try to replace you with the next wife.
These are some serious issues that you all need to address - and you need to seriously consider what ACTIONS he would need to take to prove that he won't throw you away when he doesn't get what he wants. He needs to work through his own guilt at the failure of his first family before he even considers dating, much less getting married. He's not just raising red flags; he's a bright red, flashing beacon screaming "DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!"
My advice? Postpone the engagement indefinitely. Don't push the wedding back 6 months; make it clear what he needs to do to prove to you that he 1) has dealt with his guilt and 2) will treat you as a partner and not an accessory.
He has unrealistic expectations, and I implore you to keep saying no. Say no to helping him get sole custody of his daughter (he won't, by the way, and he'll dump any mutual money you have into an attorney for a fruitless effort). Say no to taking on more of a parental role. Say no to loving her like your own. Just keep saying no if it doesn't feel right. Your instincts are spot on, and it sounds like you know yourself well. Don't stop listening to yourself just because it will keep him around.
Applause for lieutenant dad!
Applause for lieutenant dad!
With his mindset being this
With his mindset being this way, I'd be amazed if this little girl doesn't end up alienated from her mother down the line.
"We may be an upgrade from
"We may be an upgrade from the previous relationship, but we aren't "XW/BM Version 2.0".”
May be an upgrade? Is there any doubt or question?
Very good point, and I have
Very good point, and I have told him as much. There's nothing he can do about it now, so we have to make the best of it. Obviously the first marriage failed for a reason, and all the communication problems that led to the downfall of their relationship, are still making them super angry and annoyed to speak to each other. Hence the ranting and raving about who the better parent is.
Amen to that.
We are definitely waiting to get married. What I often have trouble with is how hard it is to cultivate our relationship in the midst of parenting because unlike a first time family, we don't have all that couple time at the beginning of the relationship, and it's straight to work!
On the flip side though, for him, or if the roles were reversed, would I be OK that my partner is not that into parenting my kid? I obviously can't speak for myself bc I'm not in that situation. Bc just where does the stepchild fit into the family then if that's the case? Esp if biological children enter the picture later...
Valid point
He should be in love with you, want to be with you, want to do thing with you. You should not be the new 2.0 new mother for his child. Red flag. Child has a mother, doesn’t need two. Nothing wrong to have fun with the child, and guide her in your home. But you can not mother her, because she has a mother. You are with a person with a mental problem.
You need to be looking for a
You need to be looking for a better option for your equity life parnership.
You get it. He doesn't.
Good luck.
I guess my question is...is
I guess my question is...is this something he can learn to understand, or is the foundation already all messed up?
“Leopards don’t change their
“Leopards don’t change their spots”
”You can’t teach an old dog new tricks”
”The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”
Yes it is possible for DH to Leann and change. Highly unlikely but possible.
From your experience what is the likelihood that DH Will learn to understand?
Formal education through
Formal education through counseling is kind of my last attempt. I keep saying the same thing over and over, so that's obviously not working. He doesn't really have family or friends to help him talk it out...so, here we are...
his measure of success for
his measure of success for the relationship is if we’re just like his first family
Don't you think that is kind of creepy? He wants YOU to fit in to what he thinks HIS former family was? Why in the world would you want to have anything to do with that? He sees you as a puzzle piece, not your own individual person.
I hope couples counseling helps him with his totally unrealistic and unfair expectations. But, man, I'd be totally stubborn about keeping my own identity, feelings, and desires in tact.
Agreed, hence the counseling.
Agreed, hence the counseling. I'm hoping that with a little education, he can temper these expectations. It's not as much creepy as it is annoying and exasperating. -__-
You're doing it exactly right.
As a SKid from the '80s and a SDad who has a couple young adult offspring who still live at my Ex's house (and these kids are 20 and 23, still no drivers licenses because their mom "refused to allow" me to "rob (her) children of their childhood"), I have come to a lot of conclusions.
My ex wedged between me and my kids, and I look back and with I would have forced the schedule.
DW's ex seems HAPPY to give away his kids, seems to WANT that. While we take them in, there are times I really think this bastard needs to have his kids around so he HAS TO have a relationship. But there's something about leading horses to water, so..... If he wants us to take his kids MORE, then I'd say, "COOL. Say it. I'll happily agree, and I'll happily be an integral part of their lives, however you'll need to cough up some additional child support." Which I know this bastard won't do because he's a cheap sumbitch - which brings us back to square one... So I'd love to tell him, "Take the time and enjoy your time with your kids, fool. Believe me, my daughter is so manipulated by her mom that I consider her lost in the woods. You could lose them to a crazy person, and then you will really hate that you didn't do more."
To this end, I say to all who would hear me, as a parent... as a step... don't be selfish. this is about the kids developing healthy relationships, too, and your SD needs that with her mom. She needs to be able to do 100% of her half. You need to be able to do your 100% of your step half. Doing more would come at the expense of others.
Just as an aside... I think your husband's wishes for you to become essentially the replacement mom is unhealthy. Even if the biomom was in prison, you should not be seen as a replacement. The last thing I'd want is an expectation to be superdad to a couple of kids I hardly know, and for them to be superkids to me. Woahhhh, hold those horses... I'm awesome, but those kids need to know their dad as DAD, and me as the guy who keeps mommy's wine glass full and stuff like that... Anything I do is BECAUSE I LOVE AND CARE, not because it's my court-ordered responsibility. I choose this, and I think it says a lot about Steps who do it anyway (shout out and a fist bump to all my fellow steps who see the open door but choose to stay and do the important stuff as long as there's a healthy chance to make it work).
Thank you for your insight :)
haha, love this. I just don't want to be her MOM, whether 10%, 50%, or 100% of the time, and if my fiance and I could come to an understanding on that, then I wouldn't be burdened with all these expectations. But I think he translates me not wanting to be her mom = me not liking his child, or not wanting to be involved?? I think having me fill that mom hole helps him feel like this is a "normal" family and he won't have to deal with all the baggage that comes with a blended family.
You have the interesting position of seeing multiple sides. As a parent, what DO you expect from your signficant other in terms of your bio kids? I feel like my fiance expects me to feel on par with him about his daughter, loving her like my own, ie loving her LIKE HE DOES. Expecting the same level of love and care that HER MOTHER has for her, but in a partner that he'd rather be married to now (me) - the replacement issue again. I don't have kids of my own. I have no idea if this is just a natural desire any birth parent would have - for their child to be loved wholly and completely, so is it not that ridiculous of him to want this?? ::shrug:: And as adults, we can acknowledge the complexities of the relationships, but for the child, who am I? Not their mother, but again, what do they expect out of a stepparent? As a stepkid yourself, what was/did you want your relationship with your stepparents to be?
Trying really really hard... :) We'll see...
My situation is different...
...ALL situations are different - as I'm sure you know. So, I'll let you know what I'm in and what I'm doing, but as with everything here, you can read, then accept, modify, or reject what any of us say. Each of us has to make the personal choice, and not get too worked up about it - as I'm sure you know. So there's the disclaimer.
You said:
My biokids are adult aged and don't visit much at all, so they're really not much of a factor. Anything they need from me, I can handle without any expectation of DW. I'm definitely more objective about her kids, which stands to reason because they aren't mine, and I didn't know them when they were born, so I have no real *blind love* like bio parents have. For instance, DW sees her son as the best son EVER. I see him as a brown-nosing kissass who is all affectionate with mommie, because it works out well for him when he does that. He's a good kid, but my objectivity allows me to see it more like a manager at work than a parent at home. DW thought I hated her kids because I could see negative stuff, so I had to point out that, NO, I don't hate them - I'm more like a Dutch Uncle who doesn't love her kids to the point that I'll do their chores for them (DW does, and I see this as problematic!).
Not ridiculous. However, it's not realistic for him to want this. You can love them - though it seems to me, to work it more like an uncle-nephew/niece type of relationship. You won't shower with her, you won't sleep in the same bed when she's sick, etc... This is more normal, because courts oftentimes specify in custody arrangements, that sleeping arrangements may never allow non-blood relatives to sleep with the kids. That'd include you in your situation, and me in mine. Sorry, dear SO, I am not your kid's parent, and I can't be. I can be a mentor, a role model, a teacher of awesomeness, etc... I can't take the place of anyone. And while you can take the position of his wife, you can't take the position of his child's mom. Don't deprive the mom or daughter of that, THEY WILL NEED IT; and I'd recommend that you find a way to discourage his notion that this ought to be the plan.
Perhaps at her age, for her, you are daddy's friend; daddy's very special friend.
At her age, she doesn't have a lot of choice, so you and your SO need to lead this. His expectation needs to start with removing the rose colored glasses. Seriously, he needs to tweak his views a bit. You'll figure it out together, which will be GREAT for ALL OF YOU. Spoiler alert: You're right, and he'll need to adjust his aim a little - and with that, you'll all do GREAT.
I wasn't sure at the time, and I have to say, in retrospect I'd say a few things that all need to be inter-related:
FIRST OFF... KNOW AND TEACH the difference between WANTS and NEEDS; between IMPORTANT and UNIMPORTANT; and URGENT and NON-URGENT. The difference between a FAVOR and a DUTY. You'll need to avoid giving this kid what she wants, and leave that all up to the parents as they choose (and steer your SO from sacrificing needs to give wants). Your time, your moral support, stuff like that... it's unbelievable how great that goes. A lot of kids will try to "see what they can get out of you" (DW's kids did that with me, it's to be expected) - so don't allow that unless you want them to become entitled poo-heads.
If it's important, be there with your SO as he's involved.
If it's urgent, this is a tricky spot because SKids typically try to drag their folks and their steps into helping out with an urgent homework assignment that's due tomorrow, that they knew about for six weeks... sorry, kid... "A Lack Of Planning On Your Part Does Not Constitute An Emergency On My Part." Looks like you'll be up late working on it, or maybe you'll get a big red F on it - either way, you'll learn to ask me for help before it becomes an emergency. As a step, if you help, you won't get credit from the SKid; if you don't help, you'll be called evil stepparent. Damned if you do, damned if you don't - might as well save yourself the trouble and not do it. If I help, I make sure they know that I won't do it for them, but my help IS a FAVOR, and they will OWE ME A FAVOR or THREE. If they don't make good, next time they need help, I'll just tell them they didn't make good on the favor I did before, so, NO.
And, lastly, if it's not important, well... sounds like nap time.
You're not a friend. You have authority and need to take that role. You will not be taken advantage of. You are a stepmom. As a woman, you will be the female representative to your SO's daddy role, but HE HAS TO BE THE MAIN PARENT on his custody weeks.
You're not a parent. Maybe "Parent Lite" - you've got this kid's back, but really, you're your SO's support as HE parents.
As I re-read, I see I'm listing off things parents do, but the boundaries don't get messed up because we steps don't get blinded by the same degree of emotions bios feel. Funny how doing the job gets you such a bad reputation.
BONUS:
I met a man named Lou Mancini. Smart guy, said something that changed my life. You can Like, Respect, and Admire people. It's possible to do any one of those three things (or none) with anyone you know, but these are independent. I add you can also Love.
So you can Like, Respect, Admire, or Love - anyone. My dad: I like, respect, admire, and love. I had a neighbor I liked, but didn't respect or admire or love. My brother: I love, but I don't respect much, don't like much, and damn sure don't admire. My Marine Drill Instructors: I respected and admired them, but love or like? Ha! Hopefully my graduation, I had earned their respect, at least a little. See how it works? So ask yourself, in your relationship and your step-relationship, what do you have - and what do you want along those lines? Your answer will be in that delta between those two.
Good points!
So accurate!! I deal with SD in a much more objective way - a logical approach to problem-solving - whereas SO is much more subjective. And yup, being too objective then means I obviously have some kind of negative agenda. -__- The irony of my SO wanting me to treat his kid like my own is that I would not coddle and overanalyze my own kid, and just tell them to cut it out if they're being ridiculous.
Well, we know where he currently stands on what role he wants me to have... I really do hope he learns to adjust his expectations, for all of us, bc I'm pretty sure he's going crazy bc I don't do/say/feel all the things he wants re: SD, and I'm definitely going crazy that he expects that of me. Although, I do think we both need some education/discussion/whatever on how to make this work for us. For example, I hate that he thinks that he can just agree to take SD whenever BM asks w/o consulting me (bc I know for him, he likes/wants to be with his daughter, she's his responsibility, so of course he would say yes). Or that I'm just the default babysitter if he's busy (that WAS mom..I'm not mom). BUT, at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm still being a "team player." And "IT'S MY DAUGHTER" needs to stop being his default excuse for everything. Yeah, OK, and...?
Yes, yes, yes...we are also finding out in therapy, that it's pretty obvious he needs a TON of support, but he doesn't know how to ask, or what would be satisfying for him. I suppose all he knows is what mom used to do. So he just gets frustratingly upset that I'm not being a mom. Well, I'm equally frustrated that this is NOT what my life used to be either, but I'm not so delusional to think that I can revert him back to a child-free state...so it is what it is and we need to work something out.
Very true. As it stands now, it's mostly Love that's keeping me with SO...bc he sure is doing and saying tons of things I don't like! Maybe he feels the same. ::shrug::