Communication for pick up/drop off
Hi all,
So I have a 5 month old daughter. Her father has been coming sporatically to take her for 2 hours, only when family wants to come see her. He has never come alone to take her for a visit.
I communicate with him about how she is, what she needs, her naps, feeds, diapers, etc... but he doesn't say anything.
When he returns her, he barely says a word.
What is a list of appropriately things he should be telling me upon dropping her off?
- diaper
- sleep
- feeds
- mood/temperament
- basic understanding of what she did/where she went so as to understand if it was a busy 2 hours being handled and carried or relaxed pushed in a stroller
Basically if communication doesn't increase, I'm going to have to reinforce the court order that says I get to choose a third party member to be there to supervise visits.
He also keeps giving her formula, and so this time I fed her just before they left, and supplied 3+ounces of breast milk. There is NO reason she would get hungry during their visit as she consistently goes 2-3 hours without feeding no problem during the morning hours.
Any thoughts on all this? Any advice or "been there, done thats?"
Thanks!
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Comments
Well, I don't think he
Well, I don't think he "needs" to tell you anything at drop off. I think if you're telling him everything down to her diapers and naps, you're communicating way too much with him.
Have you moved on? Are you still emotionally attached to him?
I don't understand why you are demanding that communication increase. People, once they've stopped being in a relationship, communicate (or should) only about what is absolutely necessary. Him telling you she peed a diaper and ate mashed bananas doesn't count.
Why does the CO require a supervisor?
He already appears to be
He already appears to be having a 3rd party (his family) around for visitations. Unless there is a good reason, such as child abuse/neglect that the CO was put into place, the father probably is fine without handing you a detailed minute by minute blow of his 2 hours. As you say they are sporadic I can't imagine a 2hr visit now and then is enough to toss baby into an upset schedule. Do you insist on a blow by blow account of baby's every second of daycare if you work?
Not to sound accusing, but it sounds as if it's more of an issue that you're not controlling the entire 2hrs and Dad/his family may not be doing something exactly how and exactly when and what is occurring during the visit. I could understand a judge allowing for a 3rd party as a newborn, young infant, if Dad was very young and very inexperienced...but Dad isn't doing alone time now. Many men aren't 100& comfortable around babies and his decision to have his family present to 'help' him out should be enough until his confidence builds.
Being nosy and controlling isn't reason enough to do your 'demand list'. Come on, if you sent three diapers and two come back in bag, yeah you can pretty much bet he changed her diaper. Same with bottle. There will either be some left to see for yourself or a full bottle. This baby is five months old. Dad and you have 18yrs to go. It's your choice I guess if you want to be a demanding crazy BM, but it's likely not in the best interest of the child. If I were you I wouldn't go down that path unless there is a serious and real problem.
Good point. It sounds like
Good point. It sounds like there already is a third party present for these incredibly short visits.
OP, it's two whole hours. After two hours, you're expecting/demanding to know: if/what she ate, if she peed/pooped, what her mood was, if she napped, etc.
That's kinda crazy. I think it's too demanding after a whole weekend, but definitely after two whole hours.
You are going to need to learn how to let go of some of this need to control. You didn't make this baby alone, and you have a long, long time of co-parenting/sharing this child with him.
When parents spilt up they
When parents spilt up they automatically RELINQUISH certain rights to dictate how the other parents spend time with the children. The law can step in if there is abuse or neglect happening, but other than that, you have no rights to demand to know and control HOW your ex parents. IF its important to you that he communicates with you, your going to have to find another way to get what you want, my advice (this is what worked with my ex) be nice, be understanding, be patient, praise him on anything he does do right (no matter how small) if you're nicer to him and less controlling, he'll be more inclined to 'chat' to you about his contact.
Come on guys. We're talking
Come on guys. We're talking about a baby here. The first four items on the list seem pretty normal. The last one is pushing it a bit.
If the OP comes across to the
If the OP comes across to the father the way "I" took her list, it comes across as controlling and questioning his abilities aka inferior to what her own motherly ways and preferences are. It was the 'did you push her in stroller' 'how was her mood' (aka was baby 'happy' with you) thing mostly. But as to the other items in demand list, as I stated elsewhere on this blog already...lady doesn't need to ask to know what is or is not still in diaper bag. Communication is important but the 'you tell me this or I will demand 3rd party' threat ? He already has a 3rd party, his family. A 3rd party of her choosing reads more like a 'spy'.
Without any actual proof or serious suspicions , we're talking a two hour visit with Dad and his family and a sporadic nature...OP read to me (as written in original post) as insecure that someone besides herself is the parent also and domineering in how she expects things to be . This isn't a daily or even weekly one day occurrence and from what was said in OP there is no indication this child isn't arriving home well, happy and safe and sound. Dad just isn't standing there chatting up answering 20 questions.
I don't understand I mean he
I don't understand I mean he was good enough to have a kid with but not good enough to be trusted to take care of the kid? Just b/c your relationship didn;t work doesn't mean he isn't a good dad. if you trusted him with the baby while you were together why is he not trusting now?
Sorry but even with a baby parent is a parent no matter if that parent is mother or father. Just b/c the mother is a woman doesn;t mean she will auto take better care of the baby then the father. Just b/c he doesn't tell you the things you want him to doesn't mean he should have to see his kid less. That is using the kid to get what you want, for the father to tell you certain things that he may not see as important.
Perhaps talk to him and see if he will tell you certain things instead of just reducing his time. If he doesn't want to giver you a detailed list well frankly he doesn't have to. But he can tell you when she was last changed and fed. That should be enough., I do think that you demanding a play by play of the babys 2 hour visit is controlling. It is just 2 hours!
if you are giving him a play by play account well you need to stop just update him when he picks up the baby about her progress such as is she sitting up crawling things like that. But to tell him her mood 2 days ago? That is a bit much.
I know it is hard with a baby I get that but you need to take your feelings out of it and see what is best for the kid. Using your kid to demand something from your ex is not best for the kid.
I think people are being too
I think people are being too harsh on you. It is your 5 month old baby and you, just like every other mother is making her baby her world. And might you be over thinking things, maybe, but I don't know any new mother that was not an antisocial psycho that didn't want to know these things.
My sister had a similar problem with her ex not communicating. She simply put a peice of paper in the diaper bag with the date on it and the same message every time saying something like:
Let's keep an open line of communication going about our child.
Name of child. Date.
(then she filled out)
Prior to 12 noon pick up time:
Last feeding was _________.
Last nap was ___________ for ____mins.
Last diaper change was at ____________ time Circle AM/PM
This diaper was: Circle: Solid/ Liquid #1/ #2
Level of Activity:_____
Additional notes:_______(here she wrote medication information or rashes or such
(THEN she wrote)
EX NAME parenting time: ______12noon-2pm Sunday_____
Last Feeding:______
Nap:________
( and so on)
She then had written documentation of what she was providing him AND at first the dumb butt just sent the papers back blank!!!!
So she brought them to court at the next hearing he requested to lower child support payments,... and she had months of proof that he was NOT cooperating or communicating with her!
That is psychotic. And what
That is psychotic.
And what does "level of communication" have to do with child support???
Does this father still have visitation?
Documenting behavior is NEVER
Documenting behavior is NEVER psychotic, it is factual NOT emotional.
When the dad in this case brought up the issue in court about child support, the mom's attorney was able to counter with the fact that the dad was not even attempting to co-parent and was even ignoring the mom's attempts to open ANY line of communication.
And no, this father no longer has visitation, a few years ago he just stopped coming to pick up his kids for visitation completely.
Actually the piece of paper
Actually the piece of paper was the only communication she ever asked for and that stopped as soon as the kids no longer drank bottles and were out of diapers. There were never ANY face to face confrontations at the mother's request and VERY few phone calls, only to say that a child was in an emergency room receiving treatment...
Yeah, I stopped commenting
Yeah, I stopped commenting after she posted that because my response would have been "mean." I don't think parents should ever "give up" on their kids, but some people just can't handle that psychotic golden uterus control freak thing well.
I'm not surprised AT ALL that the father no longer sees his kid...and by extension, no longer has to deal with his crazy Ex of a BM.
SO sexist. And it's NOT a
SO sexist.
And it's NOT a father's job to be proactive and take care of their (equally) baby? It's not a FATHER'S job to protect their child?
Seriously, the kid is gone two hours. Not two days. Not two weeks. Two hours. OP doesn't need to know what/when the baby ate, if/when a diaper got changed, what it did/who it saw, etc.
Op is being a total control freak, and there are 18 years of this to go.
Sorry, I'm not buying.
Sorry, I'm not buying. According to you, it's "ok" to be a psycho golden uterus as long as the child is young enough in your mind.
TWO HOURS. Cut the f'n cord.
Well, it's not exactly true
Well, it's not exactly true that there was no communication. OP seems to know that on the previous visit Dad gave baby formula. She would not know that unless he told her aka communicated. My hunch if she went off the wall. This time she sent a 3oz bottle of breast milk.
Ok, so who is not communicating? Was it Dad who told her he gave baby a bit of formula or was it BM who didn't send 'food' and didn't inform Dad baby only drinks breast milk? And the diaper thing is ridiculous. If three diapers went and none are used obviously Dad didn't change diaper. If one is used, he changed baby once. Does it frickin' matter if it was at 1:15 or at 2:05? Is there any sign that indicates child wasn't changed in a timely manner of nasty in diaper?
Baby is five months old. Not a newborn. Baby's schedule isn't going to go all to h*ll if baby napped for 45 minutes or giggled and smiled for two solid hours. Again, it's a sporadic two hour visit and OP has stated it is only when Dad's family is also around wanting to see baby. If this baby is anything like when my children were babies, they started snoozing the minute they hit the car seat.
Wow, Thank you for all the
Wow,
Thank you for all the responses!
I did learn a lot! I wanted to post because I was trying to gauge what was and wasn't appropriate.
I was a nanny for 10 years. I also did daycare. If there was a child in my care under the age of 2, I would report on all of the things I listed on a daily basis to provide the parents with any information that would set them up for success and an easy transition from one caregiver to another. So it is natural for me (having done it for YEARS) to have this professional dialogue as part of the "delivery" of a child to someone else, and I do naturally expect it upon "delivery" of a child into my care as that is what I've come to expect. Did the child have breakfast, sleep well, get up early, play for hours, etc... A quick blurb really...
My "spiel" goes like this "Johnny had a great day today! He ate well and I was sure to give him lots of water because it was so hot. Spent lots of time in the potty as a result! We walked to the river this morning and spent the afternoon building a fort. Johnny slept for only 45 mins but read books until Billy woke up. Johnny be sure to tell dad about...."
I suppose in my professional capacity this was my one shot to show the parents I took excellent care of the child, that I was really in tune with their needs, and to say 'dont be surprised if you see poppy seeds in his diaper after the bagel he ate this morning, or you might want to beeline for the kitchen when you get home because we know how johhny gets when he hasn't eaten"
I guess I don't see why it should be any different between my ex and I. I guess expecting information about what they did together is pushing it a bit - since I have her 24/7 and he doesn't ask about what we do. Not that I wouldn't be happy to share what I do with her and what she's all about. What first time mom doesn't love talking about their baby!?
I also posted initially leaving out any details.... but here's some background that makes me concerned.
My daughter is exclusively breastfed. When she comes back from his visits, she spends the rest of the night throwing up, gassy and miserable. It's becoming a problem so this is why I'm concerned. I have told him this, but he says he is giving her the same formula we gave her when she was an infant and he says she had no problems then, which is not true. Communication between us stinks and I feel it is in her best interest if we get with the program and be civil!
I provided the breast milk, and she came home with formula all over her shirt and in the bottle I provided. He has always been against me breast feeding (he calls it tit feeding and says that its emotionally unhealthy that I'm only doing it for my own pleasure and not for the child. That formula is the same as breast milk with added vitamins like d that breast milk doesn't have (I give her d drops), etc... He hates that I breastfeed. He would not "allow" his ex wife to breast feed and made both her and I sleep in separate rooms, never got up with the babies in the night, etc...
My daughter is 5 months now, and can go longer than 2 hours without feeding. He is cramming her full of formula so that he and his sons (ages 10 and 13) have something to do with her. He knows of no other way to soothe her if she is upset. He does not know how to get her to sleep unless it is to get her over full and drive her around.
I was with this man for 6 months before "Whoops" my birth control failed. I did not plan to have his child. I left him twice during my pregnancy but gave the relationship one final chance before leaving him a month ago. He is a control freak. He is extremely manipulative and I was emotionally abused. He verbally abused me in front of his children, he tried to keep me away from family and friends, he lied about me to his family and friends. He tried to take over all financial control of my ie and whatnot, but would not give me any information about his finances. He would say I had no right to use the lights, tv, hot water, etc... even though we were "in a marriage like relationship" because I did not pay enough towards his mortgage etc... (I made 1400/month and his mortgage was 2600/mth) Since leaving the relationship I've learned he has a criminal record including 3 counts of uttering threats against his ex wife, guilty of impersonating of a police office, and while he was a cop, he was guilty of causing brain damage to a handcuffed college student when he took the individual down and hit his head on the floor of the jail cell. He "retired" early to avoid disciplinary action due to a domestic situation. His exwife reports he had NOTHING to do with their two boys when they were infants, and that the boys report saying the only reason Dad is trying to visit my daughter is because they ask to.
He has shown up to visits 3 times now, twice with his sons and once with his parents. He has declined 3 visits. This time he brought my daughter to see my biological father and his wife just to piss me off. I was not raised by my birth father and have chosen not to have a relationship with him. My reaction to this is simply that if he wants to share his parenting time with them - that's his decision.
He's just trying to be a jerk. He did email and told me basics about Emily's care, but did not say anything specific about what she ate. All he included was for court purposes and included a line about how if I continue to pump breast milk it will save him the formula cost.
He does not use the items I provide for her, including diapers.
She wears a size 2 and he sent her home in a size 4 - purposefully so that if I don't notice, I will have a mess to clean up. She has his sensitive skin, so when he doesn't use the bib I provide, her shirt gets wet and the rolls under her chin get red and sore. I'm grateful as it's only a two hour visit so this doesn't become more of an issue for her. I change her before he gets there as part of our routine so she really doesn't even need a diaper change and needless to say she gets a dry shirt when she gets home.
I'm the one trying to work through this stuff amicably. He is the one taking me to court trying to say I'm not fit to care for her (despite the fact that I've been caring for her alone from day one, was a nanny for 10 years and am now a teacher) He has had more interaction with her in his 3 - 2 hour visits this last month than he has her entire life!).
The supreme court order HE went to a judge for - said I was not allowed to take her from our general area, that I had to provide him medical information, I had to give him my address, and that I had to allow him one 1 hour visit supervised by someone I chose. He had gone to the judge asking for full and immediate care of her to which he was denied. So it isn't ME that was saying his visits should be supervised but rather the judge HE went to.
We go to court again this week after there was no judge to see us on Friday. The ex took his sons, ages 10 and 13 out of school against his court order with his exwife and brought them to the courtroom - so that he would be able to show them that he was trying to get their sister. He had been for years telling them that he would be going to court to get them 50/50 which he never ever pursued. So now that his parents are paying to try to get our daughter, he's using it to show his boys "See, dad's the man!". You should have seen how absolutely TERRIFIED his sons were. I took our daughter over to the kids and let them have a visit. I can't believe how he doesn't hesitate to put his kids in the middle!
I should also add, that while now I am a BM - while dating this man, I came to this site for support often as a SM to his two boys. I was concerned that my relationship was toxic and I could see how it was affecting his sons. You all were wonderfully supportive and helpful. And supportive and helpful does not mean always agreeing with me
I can take the criticism too 
Thanks all!
Oh wait, but I'm left wondering - How do I bring up the "she is throwing up, gassy and is grumpy as though she has a tummy ache" without seeming controlling? I want to exclusively breast feed and practice baby led weaning but he has not been on board. How do I navigate this???