New & question on gifts and dollar value
Hi all I am new. I came here because I am at my wits end and need opinions.
My husband's children are very alienated against him and my husband has PTSD from 15 years of being with their very emotionally abusive mother. He has not seen his children in person or talked to them on the phone for almost 3 years, this is due to a sorry court system we invested 150k in and they never would enforce his custody order. The only time he hears from them is when they want money and then that is through emails. He continues to pay child support for the oldest voluntarily even though she is over 18 and graduated from high school. These kids are horrible to him and horrible to me. He doesnt get even cards. He doesn't have their phone numbers even.
Here is the latest quandary. Now my husband has declared we must spend the same at christmas the same amount on his three children for christmas as we spend on my one child who is still at home who has no father in her life and calls her step-father, my husband, Daddy. I get no child support from my ex unless his wages are garnished and most of the time he stays unemployed. He currently owes me and excess of 15k in back support. We make almost the same amount of money, within 1k annually of each other. I used to make a lot more than him but when the economy down turned my income has dropped by 30%. In the past when I made more I subsidized his kids when he couldnt all the time. CLothes, gifts, he overpaid his child support by 30% trying to get the ex to let him see the kids. Gutted my savings for his legal battles.
So I offered a compromise. FIne we split the bills and groceries down the middle, that goes into a joint account and you and I keep our own accounts. At christmas you spend for your kids, I spend for mine. If you want to buy for my kid, then that is your choice. He said fine, but it needs to be based on take home, I bring home much less than you because of child support. I said wait- now you are once again using my income to subsidize your kids. He says well to not take into account my child support is not fair.
So here are my questions:
1. should equal amounts be sent on the kids who have no contact with him or us as the one that is with us everyday.
2. Should gifts even be about dollar amounts
3. should he get get a credit and have the bill prorated because he pays child support to his ex.
Any feedback is appreciated
Linda
He (and you) should only
He (and you) should only spend what you can afford on gifts for kids. If he want to give gifts to his kids--they are his kids no matter how horrible they may be so that's understandable. Wanting you to pay for them, not not so understandable. He chose to stay with the horrible mom for all those years-those are the consequences of his actions and he is only one that should have to pay for that. If you've already exhausted your finances and security on his kids and battles, he should be grateful and not ask anything more of your money.
As for your child, well she is you and your Ex's responsibility and it's not your DH's role to pick up his slack. Nice if he does but not really a requirement on his part. So can't make him value your child more than his own just because your Ex is a dweeb and his kids are horrible. Likewise he can't make your child get LESS because he can't afford the same amount for his THREE kids.
1. No, forget equal amounts and spend only what you can afford. If you can spend $500 for yours and he can only spend $50 then so be it. If you choose to get them something, it can be whatever you wish to spend.
2. NO. Gifts should have meaning to the recipient and that means they can be free to extravagant depending on what the kids like, are into, etc.
3. No. If he wants to pay less, he can stop paying for the oldest girl and put that money towards the younger ones.
I never get why people get so bent and willing to be in debt to give kids something on a holiday, when they support them all year long anyway.
You make a valid point.My
You make a valid point.My sticking point has been that he is saying- if we spend 275 on your kid then each of my kids should get 275 spent on them. I am like so I get to spend 275 on my ONE kid and you spend 825 on you THREE kids out of our household finances. I dont think so. First we don't have 1k to lay out in gifts for kids. So does that mean that my kid gets a 1/4 of what we have to spend out of household finances. His thing is its not fair when we split down the middle because then I cant afford to spend as much as you..... Say what? My view is fair is not asking me to subsidize his THREE kids by taking away from my ONE kid.
Oh and reducing the money for CS because the oldest is 18, out of school and working is not an option for him. He says the stress would not be worth the couple hundreda month it would save. ut he sure is willing to create stress in our house over money around the kids.
I just felt like that the
I just felt like that the split the bills the middle was a reasonable compromise. You spend what you can afford, I spend what I can afford. If you don't want to buy a gift for my kid (who is 16) then you can deal with her feelings being hurt and explain it to her.
With the Child support, I felt like he cant say - "oh you have to compensate for what I pay in CS out of your income,including me paying extra on CS so my oldest can have a car and paying 100 percent of their medical insurance." But I was like you aren't compensating for what I DON'T get in CS, and me being the sole supporter of my child, you cant have your cake and eat it too. His response was if the bills are split down the middle then that set him up to not having a whole lot to spend for them. I was flabbergasted. He just keeps saying- it's whats fair. My attitude is you weren't so concerned with fair when it's my money. And how is it fair for me to offset money that goes to their support out of my pocket that has to support my child?
When I pressed him he said- you not wanting to spend on them makes me feel like you are saying they are not part of our family. I was sitting there thinking, they aren't. They are biologically your kids, but a family is a unit of people who love each other and care about doing what is best for each other. They are his family but they are not part of this household because they choose not to be. Whether it is because they are brainwashed or not makes no matter. and if we did the bills the way he wants, does that resolve it because it forces me to give to them?
They cant suddenly want to talk to him when they want money and then ignore him the rest of the time and it be a "family." the last round was because the 18 year old wanted 1k for a car down payment. A car that the only name on the title is the BM. We didn't have it and told her wasn't paying for a car that would be only in her mothers name. When he said no, well that was it. No contact again.
To me gifts and money aren't entitlements. I have a grown child who doesn't live at home. I spend less on him than the child who is still at home and still here for Christmas morning. But part of Christmas for the one who lives at home are clothes, pajamas, things she needs. Not indulgences or junk. If she needs clothes (cause we know how teenagers are outgrowing everything left and right) and it is close to Christmas, I try to buy the minimum and then give her clothes as part of her Christmas. Last year the majority of what she got was clothes and pajamas. Because she had outgrown everything and needed them. And she was grateful for every single thing.
And its not even about giving to his kids. In the past I bought their gifts, I wrapped them. I treated them equal when they were at my house. I remember taking my daughter back to school shopping and then having to go buy them clothes because they felt left out. Never mind there mother and grandparents had taken them back to school shopping. So I had to go out and buy them clothes to appease him. The BM wouldn't even let them bring their clothes or toys with them before she started withholding visitation. I bought them clothes, I bought them toys. And that is when our finances were totally separate. And I did it without complaint or hesitation because I could afford to and I loved him and they were his kids. Then last year after 5 years of this court battle and crap and abusiveness from them. I finally said- look you want to get them gifts, you get it. just don't spend money we don't have. At Christmas he did nothing for them. He talked about it, but never got around it. To be honest I think it was just too emotionally painful for him, but it was his choice. But what is wrong with me saying: i have given enough and now I cant afford to give without my kid coming up short so I am not going to give anymore? I dunno I guess I am so blown away with all of it I am just venting at this point. I feel like giving to his estranged kids is more important to him than this marriage. I guess I am just so hurt by all of it too.
Thanks for the opinions though. I very much appreciate them. It helps to know someone else doesn't think I am nuts.
I think you are right, I did
I think you are right, I did make some very big mistakes.
Thanks
I'm confused, if DH hasn't
I'm confused, if DH hasn't seen his kids in 3 years and doesn't have their phone number, how is he even going to GET a present to them?
I agree with Sue - you've let him take advantage of you in the past and now he feels entitled. Just keep saying it over and over like a broken record - "I've done it in the past but I can't anymore."
He saying stuff like 'you make me feel like they're not part of our family' to guilt and manipulate you into giving giving. Don't do it - call his bluff. When he says stupid stuff like that say No, They're NOT part of our family.
Either he'll realize which side his bread is buttered on and shut up - or he'll man up and leave. Either way you'll be better off.
he has their address.
he has their address.
His child support obligation
His child support obligation is his fault, not yours.