Manipulative SD13 - please help
Hi guys,
my first post so hope I use the right lingo lol.
BACKSTORY: I'm in Australia and have been with a great guy for almost 4 years. His ex wife became a prostitute in the last 2 years of their marriage and convinced him they had to in order to keep their property portfolio. He has serious issues with relationship and love and still won't say I love you to me. He has 2 beautiful kids - and they are. Daughter has just turned 13 and son is 11 (same as as my son) but he is autistic.SD13 is Daddy's little princess. My son and his, get along so well and his son adores me. My ex husband cheated on me for our entire relationship of 8.5 years (2 years married) and he became physically abusive in particular after he was found out. I now have full 'custody' of our son. We live separately (which I like my own space too) as his son tends to destroy things and I'm not keen on that or living together until our kids have all grown and moved on. I've tried to make that as short as I can. lol
My issue is the SD... she has always exhibited quite sexualised behaviour such as sitting with her legs wide apart, wearing the tiniest shorts, bending over in front of her father and this was even at the age of 9. She's now 13. The other night I was talking to him in the kitchen and she decided to lay on the couch with her backside 'pouted' up in the air in the tiniest of shorts with her legs apart. I looked over and was mortified. No, before you ask I know this is a case of Daddy thinking his little princess does no wrong. I don't believe anything untoward is going on. I really don't. Last night when my son and I went over there, I was sitting on the bench stool talking to my man in the kitchen as he was cooking... she decides to lay down on the kitchen floor. No kidding... she was there sprawled out on the kitchen floor - no way I could walk around the bench to him. He's just stepping over her and talking to me like nothing was happening. I said to her "really SD laying on the floor?" and she said "yes it's nice and cool". She is never rude to me but tends to play a lot of sudden crying because she's sad about something when we are over there and her dad goes over and consoles her etc. She stands at the end of the bench he cooks dinner so he has to walk behind her (grosses me out).
Sometimes my boyfriend (I have no idea what to call him on here lol), will go into a weird baby talk voice when he says good morning to her and kiss her. I feel like there are no boundaries.
She grunts at my son when dad isn't in earshot. If my son asks her to play Roblox games with him (which she plays as well), she only wants to play the girly ones and doesn't want to play anything he likes. Then when she's done, she just says "I don't feel like it" or "Idunno" as one word and sits in a spot on the couching ignoring my son. He's sick of going over there and having some temperamental teenage girl who makes no effort with him. I don't blame him and feel bad.
My son and I have a great (and healthy) relationship. We are affectionate with each other and he knows how much I love him. He is so good (and always has been) about me having a new man (even 4 years later) and happily trots off to the car when we leave their place so I can say goodbye and kiss my man. The SD will stand right next to him and sometimes even 'hang' off him.
So now, it's the easter weekend and they were meant to come and stay here for the night and have easter all together and she has got her period (second one ever so I understand it's painful, etc etc) and she has asked if they can just stay home because she'll feel bad if there is an accident and she just wants to stay home. Of course... he called me and said he's so sorry but SD would like to stay home and we can "just catch up" tomorrow. So no sleeping together for us tonight (we are down to one night together a week if I'm lucky now and we only live 7km apart). Last weekend we didn't the night together because she was upset about her mother.
My son and I baked cupcakes and took them to their place a couple of weeks ago with a tonne of fun decorations so we could as a fam bam, decorate the cupcakes and have a good night. SD instigates an icing fight with her dad... both of them have fun laughing and trying to put icing on each other and completely ignore my son and I. We just sat and watched.
When I try to subtly and VERY tactfully bring things up, he says I'm sorry you feel that way about SD and that you don't like her. It's far from the truth. I am trying so hard to be there for her, have taken her out and brought her a beautiful skin care set to help her learn about taking care of her skin, sent her encouraging messages on FB to say have a great week at school (to which she mostly ignores) and whilst she is always polite to my face (not overly engaging) she never says anything about me to her dad either... so I'm stuck in this situation where I genuinely feel like she is manipulating the entire situation and he buys it.. but on the other hand, he makes me feel like I am being jealous of her. yes, he says I love you to her all the time which is great.. won't say it to me because he says when he does it will be special. It's been almost 4 years together.
I feel so down that I won't have my man here for the night to wake up for Easter (my 11yo still believes which is unreal!). My son is furious. I feel deflated and sad. I just look like a jealous girlfriend and maybe there is a part of me that is. I would welcome any helpful advice. Even if you think I'm just being a bitch (pardon the french lol). I just don't know how to feel, whether it's ok that I feel this way and what to do about it.
Thanks so much for reading. xoxo
PS - Happy Easter everyone. xxoo
My advice to you would be to
My advice to you would be to go on dates together and not to move in with this man for a very long time (or never, if things don’t change).
Some men seem to enjoy being worshipped by their daughters, and in turn daughters learn to get what they want. The dads do not see this for the manipulation that it is.
This type of behaviour is very difficult to change - I repeat THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOUR IS VERY DIFFICULT TO CHANGE.
What are you getting from this relationship if he doesn’t say I love you after 4 years? Is this really worth your time and energy when you could meet somebody that appreciates you?
When I try to subtly and
When I try to subtly and VERY tactfully bring things up, he says I'm sorry you feel that way about SD and that you don't like her.
He is also a bit manipulative, I see. That statement is a way of him to not deal with your concerns, while at the same time, putting it back on you and putting YOU in the hot seat. Not cool.
Very smart of you to not move in with him, however, he doesn't seem emotionally available, either.
Four years and he won't tell you that he loves you? Do you feel that he does? Well, doesn't really matter, if he doesn't say it, that can't feel good.
Personally, I feel that you deserve better. This family has some healing to do and he really had no business getting into a long term relationship. Everything seems to be on his and his daughter's terms. You shouldn't have to settle for crumbs.
Do we have the same SD?
Do we have the same SD?
Mine is also 13 and wow. She sounds a lot like yours. It helps me personally to understand the reasons why this behavior happens--it allows me to have empathy. I still want to throttle her frequently, but hey--I'm human.
I understand that my SD hasn't grown up with a strong woman rolemodel (perhaps sounds similar to your SD?). Her confidence is low. She in particular compensates for this by talking way too big for her britches. She compensates for her perceived weaknesses by being tough. She displays incredibly annoying attention seeking behavior and manipulates situations to her advantage.
She's an oxymoron. She wants to be "sexy," but doesn't want to brush her hair, teeth or take a shower. No one has done a proper job of teaching her these things.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to be sexy per se, but rather it depends on where it's coming from. I can tell that, to my SD, being sexy equates to being pretty and she craves the attention she thinks she'll get from it. Those are not the right reasons. But she gets this from her mother, who seems to carry the same ideals.
I too, have tried to give my sd tools to help her out with all this "girl" business. I've bought many things and given much advice. To no avail.
She is her mother's daughter, not mine, and she will continue to behave in all of the ways she has been conditioned to so far in her upbringing. I thought maybe I could be helpful. But it only exhausts me. It's annoying to me. People should have done better by this kid. But what can I really do? Everything good that I do try to impart ends up falling on the deaf, stubborn ears of a seriously messed up 13 year old little girl.
At the very least, my husband hears my thoughts and concerns and does his best to take my advice or meet me halfway. I think he'd just been a weekend dad up until I came into the picture and didn't give a lot of these things much thought in the past. He does now and wants to do better. So that's something. But if this guy of yours is unwilling to see any error in his ways or is unable to take constructive criticism from his partner...well, it's probably not ever going to change. He's allowing himself to be manipulated by a 13 year old and that makes me question his intelligence. I can't tell you what to do there, but you can disengage in some ways from his daughter if you choose to stay. I've still got a long ways to go on my journey as a stepmom, but I can tell you for definitely damn sure you can't help (or fix) people who don't want to be helped.
Good advice!
Thank you so much for that great advice. I think as a start, I'm going to disengage in some ways from his daughter... she needs to learn that I am not going to be a doormat for anyone. So glad to hear I'm not alone in this situation and there may be light at the end of the tunnel so as per my reply to everyone, I've not brought her behaviour up with him in about 2 years, I've just grit my teeth and shooshed up. I'll try to get some time with him alone and talk to him, if he cuts me down or dismisses me then I have my answer. Thanks hun.
Best of luck to you!
Best of luck to you!
I'm still stuck at 4 years
I'm still stuck at 4 years and won't say he loves you. You deserve much better then this.
I remember those early days of marriage when I confronted
Hubby that there were major issues with skids affecting the harmony and environment of our household and hubby claimed they’re just being their normal reclusive self and they love me blah blah blah when we haven’t even talked for several yrs despite ss living in same home as me, he just pretended me and my kids were invisible
once we were married 3.5 yrs hubby was dumbfounded how bad things were and saw the dysfunction. He had his head buried in the sand a long time and even his siblings saw that and confronted me about skids. All i could say to them is “you’ve got no idea how bad they treat others and their dad is nothing but an atm. They do not care how hard he works to make life comfortable or appreciate how easy life has been for them compared to others. They just love playing the cod card but they have severe mental issues courtesy of bio mum, her whole family are bloody nutters.
op, this man hasn’t seen anything wrong, he isn’t changing anything whatsoever and if you do a full on confrontation he will be in major denial... he doesn’t see his daughter dressing inappropriately etc.
so sd had her period, she could have stayed home and your bf come to you for a few hrs but we all know she’d have a meltdown at that.
there are better guys out there than this and you’re at the stage now of evaluating your relationship and whether you are willing to tolerate this which it looks like you aren’t
Thank you so much guys
Thanks everyone. So far it seems like from what you all say that there really isn't any chance for me to improve this. :( I definitely am at the stage where I am evaluating my relationship with him. I haven't tried to talk to him about SD for a couple of years now so I will try and chat to him (if I can get him on his own and not at bed time which at the moment is the only time lol) one last time. If he claims that he sees nothing different, I'm going to ask him flat out, how often does she lay across the kitchen floor blocking the entrance when he's cooking? lol They have come over today and are apparently going to stay the night but it's 1pm and she's saying she has 'severe cramps' and isn't feeling too well. *sigh* So I'm guessing they will end up going home but we'll see...
I guess at least I am not overreacting as I strangely enough do not hate her at all. I just feel she has not been given any appropriate boundaries by her father and this needs to happen immediately for anything to change.
Thank you so much to everyone for commenting so far. If anyone has anything else they can suggest I try, I'd love that too. If I'm going to walk away from someone who I know I love, I need to know I've done everything I can. But I do know in myself that I'm growing very tired of the crap and deserve to be loved and put as some kind of priority.
You guys rock. Ange
Yeah I don't hate my skids
Yeah I don't hate my skids either. I find them quite enjoyable sometimes. Or at least the times I don't want to throttle them lol. When SD doesn't have her giant chip on her should and just relaxes into herself every once in a while, she's super cool and funny. I wish I could pull that side out of her more. Much like you--mostly I just wish she had been taught better boundaries and social skills.
The fact of the matter though is if he wants you around for the long haul, he ought to be accepting of your thoughts, especially when you have something helpful to offer. A good parent will recognize when their kids are behaving inappropriately and call it out. A good parent AND partner would definitely call out behavior that makes their partner feel uncomfortable because their partner should also hold an important place in their life. Otherwise, he's just reenforcing a wedge in the relationship between step parent and step kid. And saying the words I love you shouldn't be so hard. I mean, he either does or he doesn't, right? It's not that complicated.
I'm sorry you're in this position though. You are definitely deserving of great things in life!
I wrote a long response, but
I wrote a long response, but I had to go away from my phone. So it’s a bit more blunt than I would like.
a) a short break
b) ask how he feels about counselling.
I mainly wanted to say that I can see you were badly treated by your ex. At the end of the day your life is up to you.
As you have managed to establish a relationship with his son who has autism (my daughter has autism), I would suggest you have strength of character and kindness that you aren’t aware of as people don’t seem to have fully appreciated you. Therefore there definitely would be other people out there that would see this and appreciate you, so try not to get stuck in this for years and years more unless you are happy with your decision...,
Thank you!
Such great advice. I am trying not to just give up without exploring the best options. I love my partner very much (even if I never hear it from him). His little boy is the most beautiful little man and we are very close. He just turned 11 yesterday and he absolutely LOVES to draw. So me, being an illustrator often sit with him at the kitchen table (something I also do with my own son), and just draw. I never get in SS face or anything, I praise him for his awesome drawings as he is genuinely VERY talented. I love his precision and attention to detail. If I see he is struggling with drawing something (I notice his 'stimming'), I subtly draw it on mine and show him how I do it. Every time, he does more drawings using the same technique and proudly shows me. I also got him into the habit of making sure he writes his name on the picture and the date so we know it's finished. He loves that I take a photo of every artwork he does and I made a cool little video of his artwork and showed it to him one day and he gave me the biggest hug and said "Thanks Ange". He's adorable. I agree with you wholeheartedly that I don't think my partner appreciates those qualities in me that allow me to have such a great relationship with his son. My little one (who is the same age), gets along with him so well too. Initially he used to get aggitated but when I explained to my son how autism can sometimes work in a child's mind (I explained it is like a super freeway in his mind and everything is so loud ALL the time). My son is unbelievable with him and very protective of him which I really love.
I like the idea of asking my partner about talking to a counsellor as I am genuinely starting to get very conccerned about SD's behaviour and my partners' lack of appropriate attention to it. Yesterday when they were here, I was on the couch next to my partner and SD was on the couch on the other side of the room. The second I got up to get a drink, I came back and she was on my couch and I had to sit where she was. He said nothing at all. I spent the rest of the night until we all went to bed, on that other couch where all her blanket and hot water bottle (because she was feeling sick right? lol) was.
I am grateful that he and I have a better relationship nowadays and we communicate really well. I haven't brought up her behaviour in a couple of years but I think it's time. From the laying on the kitchen floor last weekend so I couldn't walk in the kitchen (I assume that's what that was all about) to taking my seat yesterday, it's starting to get too much. She wouldn't leave us alone at all for one minute yesterday so I did not get one minute alone with my partner on the easter weekend. She is next to him the whole time. She'll sit on him, next to him, lean on him, jump on him (like a piggy back) randomly. It's just getting a bit ... well possessive really.
I am trying to just stay strong, I am still always very kind to his daughter but I don't suck up her backside. I was tempted to say yesterday "Hey I was sitting there so how about you pop back over on to the couch you were sitting on lovely?" but I was a bit taken aback as I felt it was quite brazen that she even did it.
I'm so glad my son hasn't pulled any of this crap. But I guess I have brought him up to know I love him very much and that there is a difference between parents love and partner love. I want my son to learn how to conduct himself in a relationship by being open, honest and to communicate always. He and I talk about everything and he comes to me easily whenever he has something on his mind. But he also respects when I say, "ok cutie, you go with SD and say goodbye to her at the car while I say goodbye to my other half" and he happily trots off to give me space. But SD... nope.. when we leave their place, she is all over him. It's really awkward.
I think Im going to go and chat to him after work one night this week for a cuppa and chat just the two of us and if I feel he is resisting talking about it or it's not a productive chat (he used to get very defensive if anyone brings up his daughter at all), then I will absolutely take your advice and suggest counselling together or if I don't feel that is received well I will take a short break to re-evaluate where I am at. It will kill me because I know I love him, but I also need to love myself more.
It's great to hear from a parent of a special needs child that seees someone who genuinely cares - even though the SS is not my own, I do love him so much and enjoy being on his journey with him. I hope my partner starts to really acknowledge and appreciate the effort I go to with both of his kids soon. I really appreciate your advice and that you took the time. Thank you so much. Ange
These Behaviors Will Probably Get Worse
Happy Easter, I sympathize with you, that sounds awkward and demoralizing. I would move on, or at least demote him and date other people. He either thinks this behavior is fine, knows it's creepy and enjoys the attention, is a creep, or doesn't have the balls to stand up to his daughter. I suspect he doesn't have the balls to correct the behavior, so it will mosy likely get worse. It also sounds like the girl may have been abused, maybe by someone in mom's circle, or watched bioho in action. You have to protect your son and yourself. This man is not worth ruining your life. Also, I would recommend you get counseling for yourself, a bad marriage can wreak havoc on your self-worth and cause you to accept subpar treatment in subsequent relationships.
Have you considerd changing
Have you considerd changing tactics and asking him if she dresses skimpily for the sake of your son? Bet he reacts to that (wicked grin).
Love it!
I giggled my backside off when I read that! It's funny you say that as a few years ago, my partner asked me whether I thought my son was looking at his daughter "that way" and I was mortified. My son is only just about to turn 11. He was 9 and even now girls are as far from his mind as possible - he's a fortnite kid (video games) lol. I reassured my other half that no, my son just really loves his daughter as a mate to hang out with and nothing more. I was quite taken aback by his suggestion at the time lol
Have you considerd changing
Have you considerd changing tactics and asking him if she dresses skimpily for the sake of your son? Bet he reacts to that (wicked grin).