Some advice and wisdom would be appreciated
Hi all- what a fantastic community. I wish I had looked into this sooner. Could use some sage advice as I'm feeling rather alone and confused about my relationship and his children.
Backstory: I've been with my bf for over 5 years (I'm 31, he is 38). We live togethor with his 3 kids ages 17, 12,10, all boys. Half the time they are with us, half the time with biomom. I've never wanted children of my own, and when we met BF was everything I could have wanted, and I figured I could handle the kids as it's only half the time. We are both very hard working, I pay about 70% of the bills, and are good friends at the end of the day. Hell, biomom and I even get along now, although that wasn't the case for the first 3 years. They were married about 15 years, and when BF and I met I was just out of grad school, never been married. Although I was engaged and left after 3 years of abuse. Bc eff that shit.
Fast forward to now, I'm struggling to decide if this is where I want to be in my life. I am beginning to see a counselor next week and BF seems interested in going as well, as I think he also feels conflicted about our relationship, although we DO love one another very much.
To keep this somewhat succinct, here are the pros and cons of my situation that have me on the fence and utterly discombobulated.
Pros:
*BF is genuinely a good man, and a good father. He and my own dad are close friends.
*Hard working and self reliant. Refuses help from anyone. Self made and with high integrity
*Funny, makes me laugh
*Shared interests-hunting, motorcycles, guns... Anything outdoors. Although I love to travel and he doesn't.
*Generally friendly and calm demeanor 90% of the time, except for what I explain in the cons section.
*Reliable. If I really need something I can rely on him
Cons:
*Overall he is emotionally unavailable. Abused by dad as a child, and emotions are unsafe and a no-no. I hardly hear 'I love you' or receive much verbal or physical affection. He does make sure he is affectionate with the kids, but it is uncomfortable for him. (he was very affectionate in the beginning, but that's been long gone.) We do have a decent sex life though.
*He has admitted to this, and agrees he needs to change: is critical of me and doesn't appreciate me like he knows he should. I have felt like an outsider in the family, unnapreciated, and many times like he doesn't give a rip whether I'm here or not. Due to his... Emotional stunting he can be the most apathetic person I've ever met. Robotic in many ways. He has admitted between the kids and starting his new business the past 5 years I've been at the bottom of his totem pole.
*He is almost a hoarder, and admits it. It has been... Such an effort to clean up after him and get this house and property into somewhat of an order. He really let it go post divorce, and overall is super messy. Boy do I have stories. The boys take after him, and I'm an organized person with terrible anxiety and OCD issues. I feel ashamed to have people here, and the house is a constant source of anxiety for me. I've made a lot of progress, but I recently put my foot down and told him cleaning his shit up is a non negotioable for me anymore. He can have the barn and basement for his stuff, pile it up to the ceilings whatever, but I'm done with his shit thrown everywhere else. He will even just toss beer cans and trash in the yard. I feel like it's hillbilly central. I need my home to be a safe place where I can unwind. This and the kids are a big trigger of my anxiety issues.
*The two younger boys annoy the hell out of me. They are all truly good kids who mind me and I'm close with the 17 year old.... But otherwise I dread when they are here. Young ones are very high energy, and both dad and biomom are lax on rules, homework, and babying them. I swear the younger two still can't think for themselves. BF and I had a huge blowup fight last year. I verbally disciplined one kid at Thanksgiving, bc he was being rude to his grandmother (whom I'm close with and I think will kill BF if he "screws this up".). I was embarassed and BF refused to step in, so I did as it was ridiculous. BF freaked, told me I was being an asshole in front of his family and said 'if they didn't come out of my vagina don't say a thing.' Meanwhile I do laundry, clean up after everyone, half the cooking, attend all sporting events, play with the kids, help with homework, step in as a parental support when BF isn't there, take the kids to school, pay for groceries for the family, help them raise their 4-H lambs each year, etc. (Granted I feel like I could be more engaged, but I'm at the top of what I can handle). But he still doesn't think it's enough, and has said he thinks I'm not engaged enough with the kids.
*BF doesn't talk positively about me, and always likes to make jabs that he thinks I'm waisting my masters in psychology. Meanwhile I'm a very successful physician recruiter at a hospital. Love my job, and I do VERY well.
*Overall I struggle with a sense that while yes I know he loves me and is a good man, much of his upbringing and emotional ineptitude leads him to his critical nature. Most of the time he is just quiet and apathetic, but its also spotted with these criticisms every so often that cut me. Alongside the lack of affection.... It's hard.
He told me early on that marriage would probably not be in his future (although somewhat unsure) which was a hard pill to swallow. Although now we both agreed with the relationship as is, we wouldnt marry eachother without improvement. I asked him what can I improve on? He always answers I don't know. He just often tends to think this lifestyle isn't for me, and I'm a square peg being pushed into a round hole.
I just... I love this guy and I know he doesn't do this shit to be mean. I'm trying to figure out how many shit sandwiches I can eat for someone I love. But I've been... So angry and resentful for a long while. My Hail Mary is counseling, and I truly hope we can make improvements. Although, even if He does improve, will it be enough to offset my distaste for kids and the step parent life...
Any wisdom or insight to be thrown my way?
The cons outweigh the pros as
The cons outweigh the pros as far as I'm concerned. He's reliable, likes outdoor activities and makes you laugh. And he works hard.
He's not a good father, he's a lazy and lax one. He may have fun with his kids and love them very much, but he's not disciplining them. He's a slob hoarder (my DH is messy, too, but he would not in 5 million years throw beer cans in the yard). He's kind of mean when he gets angry, rarely says he loves you, doesn't show emotion and doesn't want to get married.
I say get a dog. It would have those same qualities (funny, likes to be outdoors and reliable) without all the B.S you are putting up with. (And you are more than engaged enough with the kids' parenting - in fact, too much given how you are treated).
Agreed
I do agree, especially with the parenting part. That's an adequate distinction. And nice to hear the positive words on my engagement with the kids.... I've had so much self doubt about my worth in that realm. Its difficult as I was raised very differently ( chores and good grades were very important, consequences were consistent and there was 100% follow through, manners were non negotiable) ... Thank you for taking the time to reply, I much appreciate it.
I think when you're bio-free....
... The single dad better be pretty close to perfection in every possible other way to justify taking on that kind of baggage. If you want marriage, that should have been a deal- breaker from the beginning. Don't let him hold you accountable for mistakes he made with someone else.
Honestly, those are some pretty massive cons... And I'm surprised more of them haven't turned you off permanently to the whole situation. Also, if you really think about some of those pro's, you may find that they aren't entirely accurate. I think his detached nature is allowing him to see how mismatched you guys are and I think he's probably right.
Cons outweigh the pros
The cons out weigh the pros by a mile. What more could you possibly be doing for these kids? And why should you be doing any more? They have a mother and a father with whom they spend equal time.
"Meanwhile I do laundry, clean up after everyone, half the cooking, attend all sporting events, play with the kids, help with homework, step in as a parental support when BF isn't there, take the kids to school, pay for groceries for the family, help them raise their 4-H lambs each year, etc. (Granted I feel like I could be more engaged, but I'm at the top of what I can handle). But he still doesn't think it's enough, and has said he thinks I'm not engaged enough with the kids."
Why are you paying 70% of the bills? With 4 boys/men in the house your grocery bill alone has to be huge.
A supportive and loving partner would not constantly criticizing you. That has to be taking a toll. You do not deserve a partner who is is not loving and supportive.
Unless SO will actually go to therapy and work on some of the "cons" - I think you should move on and find someone who will love and appreciate you. Or at least move back to your own place and just date.
We talked last night and to
We talked last night and to give him credit, he owned up to everyt 'con' on my list and wants to do therapy. He legitimately is upset with himself, and I flat out told him he has a lot of work to do to keep me around.
My current renters are moving out next February, so I'm going to give therapy a decent go. If it doesn't help then I have zero qualms leaving and just staying friends.
Girl, please.
You two have been together for half a decade and honestly what do you have to show for it? By half a decade, with no ring on your finger, those are issues that should have been addressed and resolved earlier in the relationship. Otherwise it’s no longer an issue but a dynamic and a reflection of his personality. Stop wasting what’s left of your prime on some jerk who seems to have stopped investing in himself financially and psychologically after his divorce. Or maybe that’s why he’s divorced in the first place. His first wife probably realized she couldn’t spend a lifetime with those cons and got out while she could, like you should!
I hope I don’t come off as too harsh but I’m trying to snap you out of lala land. The dude publically humiliated you in front of family, to put you “in your place” for defending his mother’s honor when he and his brats wouldn’t. He basically told his children they can behave however they want and you are to sit there, shut up, and do nothing but still give them motherly benefits later on. And the condescending criticizing of your educational goal, which is amazing by the way, is an early sign of emotional and maybe even psychological abuse. He’s beyond old enough to know and be better yet hasn’t chosen to. This is who he is.
You aren't too harsh--just
You aren't too harsh--just honest. I think i spent my first 2 years trying to get him to confirm whether or not marriage was even a consideration, and all he could ever tell me was 'I don't know.' I told him it wasn't a deal breaker for me, but certainly something I needed to consider as it is something I would have to contend with in the context of the rest of our relationship. And you are entirely correct, it's a reflection of a dynamic and personality trait I don't think will change. You also hit the nail on the head about his divorce: it was a dynamic of he wasn't emotionally available as a partner, and she coped by multiple bouts of cheating. So after that, his walls were set even higher.
And the outburst in front of his family isn't something I've been able to get over. I think it was a switch that flipped and really led me to where I'm at now. Angry.
I know I bring a hell of a lot to the table, and I'm finally starting to prioritize myself. Which is ENTIRELY against my genetic makeup. I'm a 'Giver', to a fault.
Givers and selfless people attract leeches.
Never forget that. A leech can’t help it’s thirsty, needy nature but you can help yourself by stearing clear of them.
If a man says, “I don’t know” two years in, five years, it means he either doesn’t want to marry you specifically or he’s not marriage minded at all. And in your case, because he is divorced with children factoring into his finances, you are susceptible to be outright used. It is not beneficial or advantageous for your journey for you to be playing house with some single father prick who can’t even pull his own weight financially. You cannot just sit around hopefully having expectations from a man, love. You get what you demand. You get what you negotiate. But in this case, you run away and don’t look back for a second !!!
If a marriage is what you want deep down in your heart, you’re settling for extreme scraps. Don’t let him drag you to a life of emotional scarcity.
Like many often say here
He is not a good lovely man when he says rude things like shut up if they didn’t come out of your vagina
for starters some babies and born via csection, some are adopted but that doesn’t make you any kess of a mum. He allows his kids to be rude and not polite making home an unharmonious environment
bio mum neglected parenting her kids, pas’d them out and also abandoned ss for 5.5 years. Any issues with ss i tell hubby and he takes it onboard to address. He relies on me as the sahm to our 2 kids to tell him when ss is out of line and rude etc or makes home unbearable to live in. He doesn’t ever say “shut up if they never came out of your vagina!!” There was a time he told me to be patient, gave me lip service for 4 yrs until i told him in 2 months that i wanted a divorce several times.
So don’t say your man is lovely because from what i’ve read he does not respect you. Sex can be amazing but lets face it, men relieve their stress through sex, its even been researched and a relationship in order to succeed needs way more than mind blowing sex
Some nerve !
I can’t believe he had the gall to say that to her, at a family event of all places, when it’s her financial earnings that helps him stay afloat. I wonder what kind of food he could afford without some generous woman pitching in for two brats who didn’t come out of her vagina.
Inadequate life partner?
That’s kinda how he seems based on your post. You seem like you are at a point in your career and life where you shouldn’t be wasting time on a counterfeit version of what you deserve when you could be prepping yourself to be a matriarch for a better man who’s got less baggage. Overall, what he’s got to bring to the table is lacking in comparison to the abundance of things you are offering up. I have a strong suspicion you would be cheating yourself out of life and a certain level of companionship to keep entertaining this guy. There are plenty of eligible single fathers but one who is a hoarding, apathetic, robotic, lazy disciplinarian who publicly barks at you because you didn’t birth his brats yet put them in their place when he wouldn’t is simply not a prospect. He basically suggested you be a doormat while his brats can be as nasty and rude as they’d like and your place is to keep your mouth shut because you didn’t create them but then you need to make sure you stay engaged with them. He’s already showing he wants to dominate and cherrypick which mothering parts you play. This man is not a prospect.
You’re barely 30; you still have plenty of time to find everything on that pros list and more with another man! Love can be a fading emotion if you let it and sometimes you should.
Yeah you summed it up-
Yeah you summed it up- 'cherrypicking' the mothering parts but keeping me separate in other ways is a good way of putting it.
And I definitely have been struggling with my thoughts of being cheated out of a level or partnership I want. Marriage isn't a deal breaker for me and I can do without it for the right partner, but so far BF hasn't been able to fulfill the role of 'right partner'.
Thank you for your response!
Undeserved sacrifice and compromise.
You are so very welcome! I want you to go down the right path !
Thing is, he keeps showing you he’s the wrong partner and has even admitted it. By the age of 38 and a whole failed marriage...especially after a whole failed marriage...a man has had plenty of time to take initiative and correct the behavior you’ve shared with us. Hence I can’t help but feel he just doesn’t want to or feels like he doesn’t have to maybe because deep down, he knows he can manipulate a certain type of woman enough to get her to pay over half of the living expenses outside of a marriage. There’s nothing wrong with needing therapy but the deliberate, blatant jabs at a huge educational/career goal is something else....him mocking the way you earn a living that sustains his grown ass looks like a red flag of psychological abuse. You’d probably be a high risk for financial abuse should you take his name.
Nothing wrong with moving out
yoi can stay over when you want, when SK are at BM. You can still have fun, go away, do things . But you don’t have to put up with spend a majorly of your money on ungrateful kids, unfortunately all kids are ungrateful when they are younger. But these kids have a BM and BF your are not one of them. Your place in the family will always be odd.
Yes BF would bevunhappy having his income cut, and having to parent his kids. That his job as a parent
Just out of curiosity, why do
Just out of curiosity, why do you spend 70% of your income? Also, you've been with him for 5 years, how much longer will you give him to see if he changes his ways and seeks help to improve? Please don't waste another 5 more years..... Before you know it a decade of your life will fly by and you'll be left wondering what the heck happened.....
Start by only contributing
Start by only contributing one fifth to the bills, and see how your boyfriend reacts. This will tell you if attending counseling with him is worth it.
Personally, I think you can do much better than this cold, often mean, somewhat selfish man. You're a catch, you just need to work on your issues with codependency.
It is absolutely 100% okay to
It is absolutely 100% okay to admit that your relationship isn’t what you want and separate on good terms and with a friendly kind of love towards one another. Not all splits have to be crazy. It’s quite nature to sit down and reconize “hey we gave this a go, you were great but I’m ready to move on now” and be done with it.