Tension between D and H
Hello all, I am new to the forum and need a little advice. About 7 years ago, my childrens father left us for another woman. It was a very ugly situation. He was rarely a great father or husband - alcohol/drug problems rarely worked and didnt do much to support the family. There were a few years that he was ok, but overall not. Him leaving us was sudden and shocking and lead to a lot of drama for me and the kids. The kids rarely had a good relationship with him but continued to try their best.
Several years later, I reconnected with a high school friend. We fell madly in love. After a few months he met my kids. I had made it clear to him that in order for us to have a relationship he needed a relationship with them as well. He went to work on this and was consistent and loving to them. They all formed a great relationship. When it came time for him to propose, he talked to them first, and included them all in the event. Everyone was truly excited and happy.
In Nov of 2017, my childrens father suddenly died from a massive heart attack induced by a mixture of prescription drugs and illegal drugs. This was devasting to my children - especially my two younger ones.( they were 20 and 21 at the time). My youngest just pulled away a little but she eventually came back and has learned to deal with her sadness. My middle one has not.
Since that time, we have gotten married. All three kids were involved in the wedding and they were very happy. We are all living together now ( oldest is not quite ready to be on his own yet but working towards it, middle one is in graduate school and youngest is in college). Life is good but there is tension between my middle child and my husband. She is angry and sad and full of emotions that she cant seem to deal with. She tends to take it out on him quite a bit. Especially if he does something fatherly. Her and I had an arguement on Christmas Eve and she was being disrespectful to me, and he told her to stop. I have no problem with what he said, in fact that is what i would expect from him. She has barely spoke to him since. She ignores him and wont really come out of her room.
I know life is difficult for her right now. I think she feels guilty for accepting the fathering from my husband. But honestly he is more of a father to her than her dad ever was. I dont know how to fix this relationship. It is hurting both of them
thanks for any advice
He is not her father
You need to stand up for your self, and not depend on him. Frankly, he came into their lives so late, she will likely not regard him as a father. Does she live at college?
I did stand up for myself and
I did stand up for myself and i dont depend on him to do that. He was simply trying to defuse the situation.
No she is in a graduate school program that is fairly close to home. Adding the expense of housing onto the expense of school just didnt make sense when its only a 25 minute drive.
Defusing?
Defusing the situation is one thing, acting fatherly, as you said in the original post, is another. You need to accept that. I understand her living at home.
You may have made a bad choice for the actual father, and while you get a redo on marriage, you generally do not on parents. I think you need to go back to him, and say while glad there is a relationship, YOU are the parent, not him.
Have they gone to any
Have they gone to any counseling together? It seems like your daughter needs to attend a group that works through grief and addiction and loss. My receiptionist lost her son to an over dose in October. She meets at a local church for a group weekly and it has really helped her deal with the loss.
i completely agree that they
i completely agree that they need counseling. My son ( the oldest) seeks counsel at with his church family. My girls have not. I have talked to this daughter specifically about needing the counseling. She admits that she does but her excuse is her school schedule doesnt allow time for that. I will admit her school schedule is beyond grueling, usually 7 days a week of some sort of class and most days are close to 12 hours. i really think most of her issues are around guilt. Her fathers family has put a lot of guilt on my kids for his bad decisions. I think she feels guilty for having a relationship with my DH especially around the holidays
That is all understandable
That is all understandable but if she doesn't find a healthy way to deal with these emotions she is hurting herself and your marriage. Honestly if she cant be kind and respectful to your DH she needs to find other living arrangements. They don't have to be friends but she does have to be respectful of your spouse.
As I understand it, the grief
As I understand it, the grief cycle is a 2-4 year process for most people. Your children are grieving the loss of their dad. Though he was a toxic POS... he was still their dad.
I would suggest that you keep the grief cycle in mind as you navigate this issue with your voluntarily isolated daughter. However, I would also not tolerate her crap either. I would sit her down 1:1 give her your requirements for behavior while she is living in the home that you and your husband provide and let her know that she is welcome but there are behavioral requirments that for that welcome to continue.
Facts are critical in grieving as they are in managing blended family situations and kid behaviors. Point out the facts regarding your deceased XH and the facts regarding your supportive and caring DH.
All IMHO of course.
Good luck.
If she is grieving, pointing
If she is grieving, pointing out facts (as in trashing BD and exhalting SF) isn't going to have a great outcome.
You don't think the 20-something year old in grad school knows her father had drug problems that led to his death? And led to him being a POS? She doesn't need reminding that. She has a dead father as a constant reminder of that.
I'm all for explaining necessary behaviors, but not at the expense of further pointing out how dead dad was a POS and SF should be held on a pedestal for not giving in to addiction.
The kids are all aware of
The kids are all aware of their fathers issues. She is in med school, she read the autopsy report and she understood it. For some reason, she still is putting him on a pedestal. I dont say anything, i just let her talk.
I also dont do comparisons between her father and my husband. ( atleast out loud to anyone).
There should be no trashing.
There should be no trashing. But discussion of the facts drives progress in the relationship struggles and in progression through the grief cycle.
Sitting down to discuss witht he 20yo that her father's issues were not caused by her, that his family piling guilt on her shoulders and the shoulders of her sibs is not right, and that she has no reason to feel guilty about her father's decisions or the results of his choices. Yes, she can and should gieve him but she should not accept more grief than absolutely necessary. She should accept zero guilt for her father's choices.
Continuing that discussion to outline that her current guilt feelings and the associated rejections are impacting her relationship with her very caring and suppoting StepFather should happen. Once it is on the table and no longer the not to be spoken off 500 pound gorilla in the room then healing and correcting can start.
I find that avoiding and ignoring difficult discussions produces zero improvment in any situation and that they are never as bad as they are built up to be before action is taken.
So, get it out, work through the tension and the tears and get on with life. Embrace the grief and that drives the healing.
My SS-26 has some lamentations regarding his dope smoking serial staturory rapist out of wedlock breeding POS SpermIdiot and the SpermClan. Associated discussions of that are always on the table. In fact I make it a point to ask regularly because I am concerned that his tendency to internalize and avoid is a suboptimizing coping strategy. He has sought counseling and it has helped him to embrace and enjoy his life. His therapist told him that his dad's (my) getting him to talk about it is a good thing.
I am a get it out, hash it out, and review it periodically until it is a non issue guy.
It works for me.
thank you for that. I think
thank you for that. I think i am more of an avoid it and hope it goes away type of person but my DH is like you, lets talk to out and work through the issues even if its hard. I am trying my best to more like that. Its frightening because i dont want to upset anyone. I dont want the hurt to resurface. But i do know that talking about it will help.
Empathy is an important part
Empathy is an important part of emotional intelligence. But... alone it is not effective in changing situations and without changing what is causing the pain the empath suffers even more than the one directly struggling with the issue.
The hurt is there simmering under the surface. Pushing it to the surface is a positive thing IMHO. It is hard, it is painfull but it is positive in comparision to letting it boil under the surface and impacting relationships with people who care and want to help.
So... take care of you. You can't help anyone else if you are not taking care of yourself.
First, you need to recognize
First, you need to recognize that this is THEIR relationship to work out, not yours.
As a SP and a SK, I'm going to tell you that you did a very big disservice to your kids by forcing your DH to have a fatherly relationship with them. Kids who have divorced parents don't want someone else coming in to be their Mom or Dad, even if their bioparent isn't a great one. And no SP really wants to come in and step on a BP's toes. When we do it, it backfires, like you're seeing nowm, unless the child invites us into that role.
You had the opportunity to choose the father of your kids, and you chose poorly. You don't have the right to expect your DH to step into the father role or to make your kids feel okay with that place you have given them. You can't fix the mistake of giving your kids a lackluster parent, and you can't assuage your guilt from it by trying to fix a relationship between your child and your DH that you forced upon them to make yourself feel better.
Basically, let them deal with their relationship, you deal with making sure your daughter is healthy and respectful to your DH, and you make sure your DH doesn't feel outted in his own home by your kids. Your kids are all adults now and don't need you meddling in their relationships with other adults unless they come to you specifically asking for help.
I guess i wasnt specific when
I guess i wasnt specific when i said i expected a relationship. I never expected him to become their father. Even though i didnt think highly of their father, he was still their dad. I expected my husband to have a relationship with them, get along, enjoy each others company, trust each other. I didnt want him to exclude them from our lives and vice versa.
Im not trying to fix their relationship to make myself feel better. I am trying to fix our family unit so that both my daughter and my husband are happy and comfortable in our home. It was my husband who came to me specifically about this relationship.
And you need to march him
And you need to march him right back to your daughter.
Whether you wanted him to be a father figure or not, you had no right to push a relationship. Your DH and DD are their own separate people who need to choose who they allow to be part of their life. Even with bio kids, there comes a point where they get to choose what kind of relationship they have with their parents, and vice versa.
Even if your DH wants a relationship, that doesn't mean your DD does. All you can expect from either one is that they are respectful to one another. If she cannot manage that, then she needs to find new housing. Your loyalty should follow your husband, and his should follow you.
Dont understand
In your OP, you referred to your DH "fathering" your DD. Now you say you never expected that. Possibly you are unclear to all parties. Maybe family counseling would help. You have to decide, what do you want, your DH to be another adult, or a father figure? And make certain you communicate it clearly. What does DH want?
Expectations
Sit DD down and let her know what your expectations are as far as her behavior in your home - with emphasis on the fact that you and DH are a united couple. DH doesn't have to try to be a 'father' to her but she should be expected to practice mutual respect and honor your relationship with him. If she can not agree to this, she needs to find somewhere else to live.
You keep talking about your
You keep talking about your expectations of your DH to get along be part of a family, etc. Don’t you have similar expectations of your “children”. These are all adults not toddlers.
Sounds like your daughter is the one causing problems.
When my adult SS was hostile and rude to my DH (he was in his early 20s) I called him out on it NOBODY is going to be rude and obnoxious to my husband in my home
Yes one of the expectations
Yes one of the expectations of the man i was going to spend the rest of my life with was to become a part of my family. And absolutely my children are expected to be respectful of my now husband.
My daughter is not hostile, but distant and not engaging with him at this time. I understand that we need to deal with this. My question was how to do this without causing more problems?
Why not let her grieve the
Why not let her grieve the way she feels she needs to. If that means she is distant and disengaged while grieving then just let her be. You can offer help but it’s still her decision on how she will deal with it
But if she is pouting because he called her out for being disrespectful to you his wife that’s different. I do not think his actions were being “fatherly” or “parental”. I just see it as upholding the basic standard of conduct expected. She is an adult not a child.
There are behaviors that I do not tolerate in my home. If someone is being blatantly disrespectful to another person, if someone is making bigoted remarks, etc. in my home I will say something. Not because I need to parent that person but there are things I just will not tolerate in my home.
You have a DH who has taken
You have a DH who has taken on the role of a parental figure, who felt the need to step in and correct a behavior that was inappropriate towards his wife in your marital home.
And your adult, disrespectful DD is now sulking.
It may be time for you to stop trying to 'fix' the issue and instead begin demanding respect from the adult child living for free in your home.
"Hey DD. I understand you have all these feelings surrounding the sudden death of your father. And I am advising you to make the necessary time to seek counseling in order to better deal with those feelings. However, being that you are an adult, you need to begin acting like one if you want to live within our home. You will treat me and my DH with respect at ALL times. Understood?"
Time to stop pussyfooting around the actual issue.
Stepmothers are advised to disengage all the time
Op says her DD is not rude, just distant. We still dont really know what happened. And OP needs to revisit her DH taking on a parental role. It seems her kids do not need it. Her DD is a success, in medical school. What about her DH? Is he working? Paying rent? Are they living in OPs home. According to DD, her kid is civil, she wants them to be more friendly. You cannot force that.
Yes he is working and we own
Yes he is working and we own a home together so we pay bills together.
The situation was a little crazy, we had about 15 people in our home for Christmas Eve breakfast. It was hectic and not going as smoothly as I had hoped. Daughter had asked me to do something and i said as soon as I finish eating. She reacted as if I snapped at her and I didnt ( atleast i didnt think I did). She started grumbling to her cousin and i just gave her the look that meant enough. She started yelling at me and i yelled back. My DH said her name and to stop. She then ran up to her room. Honeslty it was a minor incident but she became very emotional after that. I tried to talk to her calmly, it didnt help. She totally lost it. Since then she has barely spoke a word to him. She is definitely sulking. She was and is wrong. But as a mother and a wife, i want to help fix the issue without causing more disruption to our family. Normally everything is pretty good. This is only the second time since we have all been living together that we have even had type of issue.
I am so sorry
It sounds like too much was going on. Give it time. She is entitled to stay in her room, study, whatever, as long as she is polite. You have spoken to her, Tell DH next time, let you deal.
I am very sorry to hear about
I am very sorry to hear about your ex-husband.
After reading through some of the posts, it appears you wanted a Martha Stewart Christmas with a perfect Brady Bunch family, and it did not work out that way.
So, why did it not work out that way? Because your DD had a temper tantrum like a spoiled 5 year old on Christmas Eve in front of 15 guests. Calling her out on it and your DH telling her to stop still did not calm her down and she ran upstairs like an overgrown spoiled brat.
You are asking for advice on this forum. If someone in my family acted this way to me or my DH, especially during the holidays with a bunch of guests , they would be asked to apologize to EVERYONE in front of EVERYONE asap. If this rude, inconsiderate person could not apologize to my guests, myself and DH, that person would be asked to leave, period...end of discussion.
it appears you are making tons of excuses for your DD's behavior -vs- holding her accountable for her behavior.
Is she being rude to your DH? Of course she is. Sulking and ignoring him. Honestly, your DD needs to grow up and treat people with respect. I believe I read she is going to medical school. What do you think will happen if she has a temper tantrum and is rude to a professor, a colleague, or a patient? Stop babying her, seriously. Time to grow up and act like an adult.
your DD is living in your and DH's home and needs to be respectful. Sure, not everyone gets along all the time. But on Xmas in front of guests is unacceptable. I cannot imagine what she is like when they are not guests around. My DH use to make excuses for the adult skids rude behavior, until he realized just because someone is related to you doesn't make them perfect and no they do not wear halos. He now holds them accountable for their rudeness.
as far as forcing your DH to play happy family with, what sounds like, a disrespectful, spoiled adult stepdaughter, STOP. It sounds like your DH has been polite to her and has tried for a very long time to be a good stepparent. You need to make it clear to your DD that disrespect toward your DH will not be tolerated in your home.
good luck to you going forward.
I second this alot
She is working towards becoming a dr or specialist of some sort i assume. Thats a highly stressful environment and if she can’t maintain basic diplomacy and civility at home, how prepared will she be for her medical career when she is a recluse and snappy at others. What bedside manner will she have?
its your job as a parent to help her grow and encourage that development otherwise she will be a graduate with a medical degree but not able to rise the ranks because she lacks basic skills or attitudes like stress management, empathy, civility,
the question you need to ask your daughter is why she behaves this way to a man that you have seen to be welcoming and loving/accepting of her?
my husband asked my 20yr old ss that because i did nothing to deserve the same treatment of him being a recluse, living in our home treating me and the 2 young kids i had with his dad, not acknowledging us, talking and referring to us disrespectfully, even going so far to tell his dad that he doesn’t know how to show affection to kids ao his dad shouldn’t force him to in response to hubby saying how upset and hurt that his eldest son would treat his siblings like outsiders and not a part of his family when they share DNA. Ss couldn’t care or give a stuff. 4 years on after marrying hubby, my husband resents and hates ss and has disengaged the past 2 months.
if you want to continue tiptoing over this issue instead of addressing it full on.... say hello to an adult in a worser situation that will make home life so unhappy and unhealthy and potentially cause the demise of your marriage
believe me just over a month ago i was ready to walk away with my 2 little kids. I didn’t want them exposed to ss toxic behaviour and the other 2 sd22 & sd13. Hubby kept tiptoing around accepting ridiculous excuses from ss for everything and anything for not behaving as a basic civil human and the 3 sk openly trying to play happy family excluding me and our 2 young kids aged 1.5 & 3 and expecting us to drop everything for their self centred selves. They lack empathy and have ended up as exact replicas of narcissistic mother unable to accept fault for their part in things
i get she is still grieving and this is an adjustment, but its an excuse for her to use this as a reason for behavingg the way she does at home and to your husband
I really do not understand
I really do not understand the people who are saying that her DH should not have said anything to her daughter. I personally will not let ANYONE be an ass in my home. That’s not a skid thing. I would not sit back and allow my DH’s nearest and dearest or anyone else to be obnoxious to him. There are behaviors that I will not tolerate in my home. If someone wants to attack or dis my DH they can do it outside of my home on their time. Then it is on him. But make me witness it and be a part of it - well then be prepared for my reaction.
Their father who died was
Their father who died was their father, their only father, the best father they had. You chose that man to father several children. He can't be replaced by your new husband. Insisting that he needed to have a relationship with them was misguided if you meant that he needed to be an upgraded replacement version of their father.
Your husband needs to step back and stop doing "fatherly" things that are obviously intrusive to your middle daughter. She's a grown woman and is letting him know to back off and let her be. How about the both of you respect her wishes.
IMO, here's the biggest problem in this scenario.
It's you - to be perfectly candid. You laid all these (unrealistic) expectations down. You wanted everyone to be one big happy family when the fact of the matter is they are NOT family. Like someone else stated, you wanted Brady Bunch (as though your children are still children) when the reality is these are all ADULTS we are talking about.
Reading between the lines, and although unwritten, I get the feeling that you subconciously want your DH to do "something" to fix this situation. Like he has to be the one to mend the break. That is also unrealistic ... and unfair.
I would be interested in hearing your DH's side of this. I have a feeling like many steps, his perspective would be different. If your DH were to post here he might say, "I have done all that my DW has asked of me and more. I have welcomed these THREE ADULT kids into our marital home and am paying more than my share of living expenses to support them all. I've tried to reach out to SD but she ignores me and is distant. My DW sits around and wrings her hands wishing for 'happily ever after' but she is also ignoring the building emotions. One of those emotions she is ignoring is MY resentment over this situation. It is very difficult living in a house where one of the ADULTS treats you like you are invisible even though you are supporting them. To make matters worse, when I set up a reasonable boundary of no disrespect to either myself or my DW in our home, I get iced out. I am beginning to think maybe I made a mistake in this marriage."
If I were you, the first step I'd make is to go to marital counseling and find out how to keep your marriage intact. That should be your priority, not your ADULT daughter's grief. If she is mature enough to read the autopsy report, then she's old enough to know she needs to deal with her grief and figure out a way to do so.
Although grief over a parent is an extremely difficult burden to carry, as adults we need to learn how to carry it. Grief never really goes away, we simply learn to manage it. You can talk to 80 year olds who will still tear up over the loss of their parents. So your kids (and especially this daughter) have to figure out how to hoist it upon their shoulders and carry on. People lose loved ones all the time, most only get three days of bereavement leave and then have to go back to (often crappy) work and back to life. In their quiet moments, they learn how to cope with loss.
Not to overemphasize, but next time the trash collectors come by your house consider their situation - these are decent, hard-working people doing dirty, honest work that no one appreciates at a wage that is probably poverty-level. And yes, maybe one of them is grieving the loss of a loved one. Maybe one of them even has a CHILD who has died. But are they sitting around and moping about it? Nope, they don't have that luxury. They get up, do their work because they MUST, hope to get by from paycheck to paycheck, and know their future is not going to be much brighter.
Your daughter is embarking on an incredible lifetime profession most people only dream of. It probably wouldn't be possible if she didn't have a roof over her head being paid for by a man she (now) won't even speak to.
Makes me think the best advice you can give her is the ancient dictum, "Physician, heal thyself."
Finances
I see no indication that the DH is paying more than his share of living expenses. We have no reason to think that OP is not paying most. What was she doing before she was married?
And where I live, santiation people are union, and get paid well.
You nailed it 2tired!
I agree. We don't know if DH is shouldering the financial load of his SD's college but if she is allowed to stay in a home he is paying part of, SD owes him at least mutual respect. If one of my DH's relatives came into our home and got obnoxious in front of my friends you can bet if DH remained silent, I would chime in. I have a right to entertain my friends in our home without that kind of drama. She's an adult and should be expected to act like one.
If SD is having problems accepting the death of her Father she definitely should go for counseling. But she should not be allowed treat DH disrespectfully in the home he lives in by treating him as if he is invisible and snubbing him.
Glad to see you are like-minded, Sandye
I actually wonder why the OP is seeking advice on a website which is FOR stepparents! This is a matter that might be better addressed elsewhere - like a site for bio parents who have issues with their bio adult children. It is only natural that most of us see this from a step-parent's perspective and will be sympathetic to and supportive of her husband's predicament and position as the "step."
This is not directed at the OP... but IMO, there seem to be growing numbers of posters here who are barely closeted step-haters. Their posts make it pretty obvious. Again, other than stir the pot and cause controversy, why are they even here?? I'm sure there are sites out there for "I hate my step(fill in the blank)" - why not go there and find the like-minded community they will fit in with? The names may change but the tone of their input is always the same.
It's kind of like going on a website designed to support dog lovers when you secretly hate dogs but love cats. If someone says something you perceive as negative against cats, then of course you will take offense and respond with a back-biting challenge to the poster.
I find ignoring them is best.
I've noticed the same thing
"IMO, there seem to be growing numbers of posters here who are barely closeted step-haters. Their posts make it pretty obvious." It's like some people who lurk on an Internet site for the opposing political party and get their kicks interjecting sarcasm.
Poor widdle Skids are so misunderstood, so torn up with Mommy and Daddy's divorce. They will milk it forever for attention and overlooking rudeness to other people in their own home. So we're supposed to walk on eggshells and kiss a$$ until they see the light and 'like' us -- maybe. Not anymore! Been there, done that.
Welcome!
1. Welcome to the site. You'll find a lot of things in here. Some not helpful. Some helpful
2. Please don't listen to negative people. They are all over this site.
3. Counseling or Al anon meetings would be great if she could fit them in. But it sounds like she can't.
4. Have you tried just talking to her by yourself and letting her vent? I'm sure she has some venting to do and she probably is not sure if how she feels is normal. Anything she is feeling is normal and let her feel that way.
5. She does need to respect your husband. Just a simple, "If you can't be friendly, go to your room until you can be." will be fine. But just make sure you back that up.
I'm sorry for your loss and the stress it caused your children and you. I do agree with you that when you marry with kids, you look for a certain person who can be a father figure for your kids. I don't understand a lot of people on this site who believe it should all be seperate.
Honestly
I have read through your post and all I see is, l expect, I want, I demand, etc. You seem to expect this perfect, happy family, but here is the newsflash, they don’t exist. Even in intact families people argue and disagree. Your husband is also allowed to have expectations and he is allowed to reprimand one of your kids when they cross one of his boundaries. Your daughter is at fault here and the sooner you quit making excuses for her behavior, the better for everyone. Your daughter owes everyone that was sitting at the table a sincere apology and you should be the one to tell her that. Sitting in her room pouting, sulking and ignoring your DH is not a solution to her problems. Your DH did nothing wrong. Her dead father is an entirely separate issue and as an adult she needs to sort that out.
It sounds to me like you have
It sounds to me like you have a perfectly normal daughter who's going through a rough patch. I'd just give her time. I like what one of the previous posters said about letting her know that she has nothing to feel guilty over and any of her father's family that say so are just wrong. But they're hurting too so it's OK to be generous with letting go.
But if it goes on too long or if she's confrontational with the family that is frankly supporting her then I'd shut that down. It just sounds to me like they're finding their way.
She's not grieving the father that she lost, she is grieving the idea of the father that now she'll never have.
Duplicate post
Duplicate