Hell hath no fury like a stepdaughter
I frequent another online forum for women which is heavily populated with those from the late 20s to mid-40s range. I always find it interesting when the topic of SMs come up.
As expected, it is a very rare occasion when anyone has anything positive to say about a SM. In fact, even the topic of a father beginning to DATE again is met with such venom it's amazing. Remember, most of these women are married and have kids of their own.
Their excuses for excluding, rudeness and vitriol are usually, "I didn't ask for this woman (SM) to be a part of my life. I don't want anything to do with her and she should accept my boundaries. She will never be anything but a stranger to me." A recent one that caught my eye said essentially, "My widowed father [2 years post wife's death] is going on a date. I am very upset about this. I don't want him to be lonely but I don't want someone else in my mom's place."
Keep in mind this is an adult talking. One who has a husband and kids of her own. The responses from others were universal: It's absolute hell when your father begins to date again. These women mab be nothing but gold-diggers so make sure you talk to your father about getting his estate in order! Make sure this "interloper" doesn't get a penny of his cash!
Conversely, and nonsensically, the same group will blast SMs who disengage and say they are cold-hearted and don't lavish time, love and gifts on their kids. They want them to act like grandmothers but only as they dictate, and at a very firm arm's length.
Yet there is a 100 percent expectation that their father should fully accept and embrace their husbands! So it's perfectly fine for them to bring a stranger into the family themselves and expect and demand their DH's be included and treated warmly. But don't even think about doing it yourself, Pop!
There are quite a few of us old-timers here that are now in the position of being decades into this saga called steplife. And it doesn't change.
With all the focus on mental health these days, I seriously wonder when and if the psychiatric/psychological community will begin to do serious research into why these adult women behave this way, and if there is any "cure" for it.
They don't want to admit
They don't want to admit their dad might have a sexual urge. They are used to viewing dad as a father and just dont see his other sides.
Glad you brought this up,
Glad you brought this up, 2Tired4Drama. I have done the same thing (read some views from the other side of the coin), though not for a while, and agree 100 percent with your observations. Bottom line for me is I probably shouldn't have married my husband in the first place. It's all about where DH's loyalties lie and what they will tolerate from daughters to keep them happy. To think this dynamic will change significantly isn't realistic. I do know of situations where a widowed man has married again and it has gone fine. But those stepdaughters were mature to begin with. And I believe that's the biggest partof the problem in many of these situations. The SDs are immature, the dads are allowing childish behavior.
I think it's more to do with BMs.
I think all kids (even adults) don't like to think about their parents as sexual beings. That even goes in intact families.
What I'm questioning is why there hasn't been significant research done on WHY daughters are so uniformly rejecting and critical of stepmothers? I think BMs have a significant role in that. This is where some fundamental studies need to be done, IMO.
To sum it up simply, when the BM is psychologically secure and encourages the kids to have a positive relationship with the stepmom, the kids (especially daughters) will do so.
Consider this: "According to a Pew Research Center survey from 2011 to 2015, there were around 14 million stepmothers in the United States, or about 12% of women. If the definition of stepmother were expanded to include stepmothers of adult children, the number would likely double."
That's almost 28 MILLION women in the US alone who have stepkids/adults in their lives! Almost 25% of the female population.
Yet there have been virtually NO detailed, scientific, peer-reviwed studies about the stepmothering experience, nor guidance on how to resolve problems.
BM's role
I agree that the BMs have a role. I think some BMs fear that the childrens" allegiance might be diminished by another woman, like the ex-husband"s allegiance has shifted. Kid's also fear the dad's allegiance has shifted to "his new family".
I think you're right.
It's often an allegiance/loyalty issue. A mother's bond with her children is primal and for the psychologically insecure, any other female is seen as a threat. And I think therein lies the crux of the issue with stepdaughters - they mimic their mother's attitude and will not accept any other female in their father's life.
But we can both think all we like. That's the problem! We think. We don't know. Which makes me wonder why there have been virtually no scientific or longitudinal studies on stepmothers.
If there are approximately 28 MILLION women in the US who are stepmothers why in the world doesn't anyone have interest in their experience?!
Easy answer to your last
Easy answer to your last question. It's for the same reasons that most pharmacological studies and other medical research has been geared towards MEN and not women.
If something is important to men, they make sure to do the studies, invest in research and fund a solution. For many segments of business, science and society, women are merely a subset of humanity.
Slowly, ever so slowly, we are gaining ground, but not fast enough.
Science and medicine as a
Science and medicine as a whole has neglected to equally study women, especially middle aged and senior women.
Studies on the menopausal phase, hormones (a huge part of a woman's life) are scarce yet women often experience extreme discomfort before and after menopause.
A lot of doctors don't even understand that typical heart attack symptoms in women may be different than typical heart attacks symptoms in men such as women often have little or no chest pain.
Women have been 2nd class citizens for hundreds of years and SM's are at the bottom of the bottom of the pile.
Loyalty.
A husband should be loyal to his wife just as a daughter should be loyal to her husband. I believe issues with this are related to lack of maturity and when not dealt with, it's a lack of EQ. Many people do not have the insight to actually 'see' the problem, much less to define the 'problem' accurately and take action for resolution. It is easier to 'hate' on someone (SM) than to take a long, hard look at yourself and explore feelings that are tough to digest. What am I afraid of? What can I do to combat these feelings? Etc. Many people can not do this and are looking for shortcuts (probably unconsciously). If BM lacks maturity, this can definitely escalate the problem. However, we must remember we are dealing with adults and treat them accordingly.
As a mom of two adults, I knew it was my job to raise my kids with the tools to 'adult' effectively. Once adults, it is their job to use said tools. As someone who has a vested interest, I have no problem talking about issues I see; in a kind and loving manner, of course. I can still have teaching moments with my kids...and they also teach me! (I truly love this!)
The problem I see, and have seen through my reading and research, is that many dads do not want to have those crucial conversations. If they don't 'see' things they don't have take action. Is this guilt? General passivity? Lack of EQ? I also see that the longer a problem is allowed to continue, the harder it is to solve it. What is permitted is promoted.
Also, yes, I do realize that the gender roles can be reversed.
In the case…
...of a man with adult children, his allegiance should shift. To his wife. Adult kids should be 'adulting'. My husband told me that he had put in his time, devoting his life to his kids, while they were kids and up until the time we met. It is time for him to be happy, and he told his kids this. (SKIDS are in their 30s.)
I didn't have a BM issue but
I didn't have a BM issue but let me tell you - MAN oh man did the SKIDs treat me poorly...and still do (to varying degrees.) This is completely on their own. I can only blame their own behaviors on them (afterall they are adults) and society for allowing the horrible treatment and behavior. SKIDs and family have only costed me money, there wasn't any gold digging but the SKIDs still believe another reality even though its very apparent that is not the case.
I recently watched a lecture
I recently watched a lecture on Oxytocin secretion in men and women. Women get their biggest oxytocin release when being affectionate (hugging), and comforting their kids. Men get their biggest oxytocin release when playing with their kids (laughing, etc..). Kids get the same hit when being comforted/affectionate by/with mom and when laughing/playing with dad. Which is why when a kid gets a boo boo they run to mommy and when they want to play, the run to daddy.
A conspiracy theory only, when daddy has a new playmate as an adult, the kidult aged baby girls/boys don't like it because daddy is not giving them their daddy sourced oxytocin hit. Girls generally will go through a jealous of mommy phase when they are young children. Because daddy pays too much attention to mommy for the little oxytoxic crack heads to stand.
Kids who do not recognize their parents as each other's intimate partners, yes my usual judgment statement, are ill raised and are failures of parenting.
My parents were affectionate with each other. We just knew that intimacy was part of their relationship. That was part of their relationship, their example, and a priority within their relationship. When doors were closed, we knocked. Added to walking in on them half a dozen times over the years and it was no secret that mom and dad have an active sex life. Probably part of my major issue with my XW who was basically frigid within the marriage though as I found out at the end was riding every swinging extramarital Johnson she could get hold of the whole time.
I think my comment to these flawed spawn is that they cannot provide what their adult father needs, in a life partner, in a confidante, or in a lover.. These "girls" also need this message from daddy and daddies need to be dropping flaming turds in those IL communities with clear call outs on these daddy's little girls.
IMHO of course,
I would also call them out on needing to stop thinking with their feelings and discuss the facts. SM may be a gold digger!!! Whaaaaaaa. Its soooooo hard when daddy dates someone!!!!!!!!! Whaaaaaaa.
"What proof do you have that daddy's GF/Wife is taking money from him? Maybe she is the one with money and your daddy is taking advantage of her? Hmmmmmm?"
Sadly so much in Social Media is a festering digestive tank of confirmation bias fed by fee fees instead of being questioned with facts and demanding cerebral activity.
Being a research nerd, I did
Being a research nerd, I did find one recent article addressing the lack of research on stepmothers: Psych 2023, 5(1), 209-223; https://doi.org/10.3390/psych5010016
It addresses the complicated and ambiguous nature of the role of stepmothers, along with the cultural stereotype of the wicked stepmother.
I would love to see rigorous studies of successful stepfamilies. I bet we would see family dynamics that include cooperation between bio parents, parental expectations of their bio children, consistentl upholding of standards of behavior, and healthy communication between spouses.
stepmothers are at a disadvantage from Day 1 due to cultural stereotypes (based mostly on fairy tales I bet) and basic mistrust by the children, the other bio parents, and sometimes even the spouse. As we say here often, sometimes love isn't enough to overcome the never ending obstacles.
I would love this kind of
I would love this kind of research focusing on the actual problems- BMs, SKIDs, disney land dads...get to the root of their broken families and squarely shine a bright light on the actual problems while also explaining and demonstrating how SM/SP are the scapegoats rather then dealing with the real issues.
I'd also add to your list that culturally it is VERY acceptable to treat the SM horribly - SKIDs and BM are given a pass in that department. I'd love to rip the lid off all the insidious behavior that goes on - really showcase all the garbage done behind the scenes not just the overt disrespect.
Researchers get on this!
Exactly
My sister is a bio mom and a step mom. Her kids relationship with their dad and his wife is great and his wife is excepted and even the grandkids call her a grandparent name. My sister is secure and encouraging that her kids now adults can feel free to love/like whomever their dad is with.
My situation of course gets to be the opposite. The ex wife has not given her kids/now adults the same permission to like me. She's always been in the background making sure her spawn were loyal to her. I never tried to be a mom to them but I did live with them. The son now has 3 grandchildren and it's seems it's going to be another generation heartache for us. The ex wife is making the play of biological grandparent to her son and he told my husband "their is a blood difference". I'm out. It's been 30 years now and I see I never stood a chance. So now I'm back to being ok with my fur family dogs. They are loyal to me like the step kids are to their insecure mother.
"You're not my REAL grandma"
As my 8yo step-grandaughter told me when I had her here to make cookies, "Grandma BM and Mom said you're not my REAL grandma". I said "Right" and thought how kind of them to bring it up.
When my
husband's first grandson was about three he referred to me as Grandma when he climbed up in my lap and asked me to read him a book. His mother about hit the roof and pulled him away and said "I TOLD you not to call her that!" He got upset and started crying and mom said fine, then we're leaving which got him more upset. Then she told her father she didn't know if they could visit so often (about twice a year and they lived an hour away) if "your grandson" was going to get so upset when they did.
It was really bizarre. But even better was the time we had scheduled a visit with them and she deliberately put the little guy to bed because she was mad at her dad about something. He'd already had a nap and it was three hours before bedtime and you could hear him crying up in his crib. She was actually willing to hurt her child to punish her dad. Fortunately her husband refused to let it continue and brought him downstairs.
What is the matter with
What is the matter with people. Who does this? I think that's what is difficult about these situations when they happen. Healthy people are caught off guard when somebody responds in such a bizarre way. I can only speak for myself that, due to lots of issues in my background, I'm not the best at handling these situations if I feel I'll be "thrown under the bus" and scapegoated. Problem is, I typically behave in a passive way, or aggressive. Which I know I shouldn't do. But in the moment it's difficult to find that middle ground, especially when I constantly feel like an outsider and that my mere presence is a problem for two of the three people in the room.
What is the matter with
What is the matter with people?
What is the matter with
With so many of us seeing similar dynamics, (and divorce rates of second marriages when step kids are involved are between 65-75%) it makes me wonder if step-families are just doomed from the start.
Where are all the pleasant
Where are all the pleasant and reasonable step kids? I know my kids get along well with their step mom and I've not interfered with that. I also know my X has her back. Hate to be crass but the "my mom was a raging alcoholic and died by suicide" card does kind of trump everything here. I should have seen that coming. He's always going to feel sorry for his kids, as does everyone else who knows their situation.
Feeling sorry…
...is not helping those kids.
When life gets tough, we need to get tougher!
The goal should be to help kids pick themselves up; give them the tools to effectively 'adult'. THAT is LOVE, as in "I want you to be the best you can be and I will assist you in getting there." This sometimes means 'tough love'.
The HCGUBM legacy lives on
Infuriating! These women are absolutely juvenile. I never tried to throw a wrench into my DD and her SM's relationship. I also had a Stepgrandfather we called Grampa [his first name] who gave me a rangefinder when I was a kid. He saw I had an interest in science.
I didn't realize my grandma
I didn't realize my grandma in PA was a "step-grandma" for years. And when I learned she was Grandpa's third wife, it didn't effing matter! She was my Grandma! I didn't call my "step-grandpa" in FL anything but Grandpa my whole life. This is part of the reason I JUST DO NOT GET THIS BEHAVIOR! It's sad!
Sadly your SS is correct that
Sadly your SS is correct that there is a blood connection. But, even the liquid in a cesspool seeks it's own level. Shit "blood", creates shit people. So to speak.
I would make that message a regular response to their toxic bullshit. They are shit, so their kids far more likely than not will be shit as well. And so on, and so on, and so on.
Doing nothing changes nothing. These types think that the stench of their shallow and polluted gene pools smell like roses. Delusion produces countless generations of the delusional.
Nothing is more pathetic than these types of people who have to breed their own followers. They are incapable of forming healthy relationships or friendships. That leaves them only the option of engaging their gonads to create minions.
KISS - Call them on their crap and go zero tolerance for their bullshit.
Live your best life in spite of them. Afterall, living well is the best revenge.
"Conversely, and
"Conversely, and nonsensically, the same group will blast SMs who disengage and say they are cold-hearted and don't lavish time, love and gifts on their kids. They want them to act like grandmothers but only as they dictate, and at a very firm arm's length."
This quote really hit home for me. It became obvious within a few weeks of meeting my SDs (who were young children at the time) that they had been instructed to hate me,. Yet many years later I get pilloried for disengaging and "not making them feel welcome" in our home. Sorry, you can't have it both ways!
When you realize you will
When you realize you will lose either way, it frees you up to do what you want. If i can't do something without feeling resentful, i don't do it. Except at work when i'm being paid to do it and fired if i don't lol.
Agree completely!
Losing is the one and only outcome, no matter what you do, especially when dealing with stepdaughters who are either enmeshed or trained by BMs.
My SD (in her 30s) is completely enmeshed with her mother who indulges her whims and funds her expenses to include purchasing primary house, vacation condo, multiple vehicles, boats/ATVs, and I'm fairly certain BM has funded all the fertility treatments and adoption costs for SD's family-building efforts.
When SD got married her DH was quite vocal about how important "family" was to him - both his parents and siblings, as well as extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins). Both my SO and I thought maybe he might be the catalyst to turn SD around. Surely he would envelope his father-in-law (my SO) with open arms and draw him into his close-knit family, right?
Wrong. SD's DH is just as uncommunicative and alienating to my SO as SD has been. He does not contact my SO, he does not send him pics of the gskids, he does nothing - just like SD.
One can only wonder why a man who professes to love family and prioritizes familial relationships above everything, has nothing to do with his FIL.
Hmmm. Doubtless BM and her passive-aggressive alienation efforts were directed to him. Her fat purse dangling in front of his eyes also had something to do with that.
It just goes to show that many people can, and will, be bought. I'm sure this guy enjoys his suburban home, vacation abode and all his flashy vehicles, as well as the creation of his own children via BM's largesse.
The last time I saw him, he went on his spiel about the "importance of family" and I thought I would gag.
So again, it's a lose lose situation. There is no way my SO nor I can, nor would want to, be able to compete with BM who has absolute financial and emotional control of SD, SIL and the gskids.
It is BMs show, it will always be BMs show, and there is no use challenging it.
Which is not losing. Rather it is clearly winning.
They will never recognize that we win. But we know. They do not possess the intellectual capability or personal clarity to recognize that they are the shit that they are.
I like winning. It is a huge part of living our best lives. They will never win because they do not recognize what winning actually looks like. Winning is living well. Committing to living our best lives. Which drives them nuckin futz.
Yet many years later I get
Yet many years later I get pilloried for disengaging and "not making them feel welcome" in our home.
So true and is liteally what I have been going through. Its like they have this tick in which they just refuse to accept the fact that they cant have their cake and eat it too in this life.
Sad to read this and the
Sad to read this and the responses, Jealousy is UGLY.
Eye Opening
I love psychology and science.
Read through the entire thread....the one resounding thing for me? The concept of BM being insecure and what comes with that. It's exactly what I dealt with. Several times during the course of our early married years, the BM would tell DH things like "please don't take my kids" or "ya'll don't take my kids." WTH??? I was within a year of empty nesting and READY to enjoy that time. I did NOT want BMs kids or anyone's kids.
Me? I was always fine with my former husband re-coupling and hoped he would find a nice lady to "do" life with. And when he found her, the kids were told sternly...respect your SM (just as they were told about my DH). Fast forward almost 20 years....we all get along fine. We've celebrated our kids' life events together and if the "mom" title is honored, I always get her to stand with me. SM has great relations with the kids, too.
I might have insecurities but none in the "mom" area. I'm confident another woman can love my bio children without it detracting from their love of me. SMH
YOU should be the subject of a study!
Seriously. A proven case in how to do it right.
It Was Always....
about the kids...for both me and my former husband.
While we couldn't figure things out, we were determined to not let it affect our kids or keep those affects minimal. We did some really unconventional things early on but it worked for us. I stayed in the marital home but the kids didn't leave for visitation. I did. Packed a bag and went to a friend's house for the weekend. (Neither of us were dating at the time). Fully open communication between me and the dad, the school, sports, etc. Their dad was kept fully abreast of all activities, grades, etc and we co-parented well.
I thank God for what we did and where it's brought us....to peaceful relations. I seriously do not think I could have handled TWO toxic sides.
Bravo. It's better for
Bravo. It's better for everyone this way.
Totally agree with this. Our
Totally agree with this. Our BM is secure in herself and it shows. I believe this has been the biggest factor in our family succeeding. We've certainly had issues with all of our kids over the years but they've turned out to be fairly normal and pleasant people overall. If BM is against you, I think you're pretty much sunk from the get go.
There is no BM in my
There is no BM in my situation, as she died (by suicide) when kids were 10 and 13. This trauma, and the trauma bonds of DH and his kids, has made it nearly impossible for his kids to let anyone in. Trust is an issue, abandonment, and just the grief and loss. DH could have handled some things differently as they were growing up and going through grieving, but there's no rule book for how to handle such things. He pretty much gave them carte blanche to do whatever they wanted and was extremely lenient with discipline. Also SD was a bit parentified as she took on some mothering role for little brother and became DH's confidant. Bottom line I should have looked before I leapt as I've been targeted as the problem (ie evil step mother) and that's not likely to change. DH is good at avoid, deny, deflect. I don't think the three of them really want another person in the mix. My husband wants a mate, but they do everything separate from me -- I'm not invited.
I was/am the same. I wish my
I was/am the same. I wish my ex well as far as moving on and am friendly to whoever he is dating. I know they won't replace me. The kids have always had good relationships with their dad's girlfriends. Part of it, too, is he never expected them to parent. He paid for half of daycare (the only thing he paid for lol) so there was never this pressure on them to play "mom." If he wasn't home, the kids weren't home. Same as me. That's one thing i can say he did well. He also had behavior standards for them.
CajunMom. You are a quality person.
Quality people demonstrate that quality in all aspects of their life.
Quality people are not perfect and certainly can and often do have insecurities, but they are solid in who they are and in their quality.
I have never had to deal with a COD situation myself either personally or with kids of my own. My own background pre first marriage was so ideal and in many ways sheltered by geography that what should have, in hindsight, been obvious was not. That continued to dating my DW. It did not dawn on me that an 18yo would have a nearly 2yo kid. When DW told me how old she was (18) I was a bit taken aback. As was she when I told her I was 29.
It should not have been beyond comprehention to me. My mom and dad married at 17 and 19 and had me at 19 and 21.
Here we are nearly 30 years after our first date. Making it work without any of the history either of us lived prior to meeting destroying the life we have built together or the lives of anyone else. Our life experiences are in significant part what made us the right person for the other all those years ago. Unlike n our blended family experience the lives that the insecure side of the equation where the SpermIdiot has ruined the lives of his own kids and a couple of his baby mamas who went on to repeated relationship trauma after him.
Enjoy your life!
Don't overcomplicate it.
IMHO, the core of this entire problem is that people over complicate this shit. It is simple. Behave, and be respectful. Particularly of your parents and their mates. Whether their mate is your other parent or not.
Kids, do not get to behave how they wish. They do what they are told when they are told or they bear the consequences of their choices regarding their behaviors and their performance. Once they become adults, they earn trust and care. and treatment according to their performance and behavior. It is no longer a given as it was when they were minors and the responsibility of their parents/SParents.
Whiny brat-dults that are so pathetic that they try to stand on their corrupt character and shit choices defining them as "boundaries" are a write off. They should be written off by anyone of quality. Even their own parents. Assuming that their SParents were and are not toxic. Pure probability indicates that SParents are far more likely to be of quality than not. Hurt fee fee whiny brat-dult CODs can whine and cry to each other but should not be tolerated by anyone else. These hell spawned breeding failures have to be held accountable. Particularly as adults. They do not get to stipulate who their parents re-partner with. They do not get to choose shit for anything except to STFU and learn. Or not. Their choice. If they refuse to learn, they choose to suffer. It is the quality couple that delivers according to the brat-dult's choices.
I struggle to understand who so many SParents and blended family couples choose to have hurt fee fees over the behaviors of shit spawn.
Easy for me to say I suppose. Since I have not struggled with this problem. None of it. I have not struggled with a coward partner because my partner is not one. I have not struggled with an ill behaved minor or adult spawn. Because my spawn (acquired by marriage and adult adoption papers) was raised with standards and boundaries, was held to those standards, and supported by his mom and me to live a life of character and honor rather than a life of whining, wincing, unearned specialness.
IMHO, it is never to late or early to set and enforce the standards we demand for ourselves, our mate, and our children, or theirs. Don't get me started on any toxic X that may be in the picture. Those are nothing but fertilizer to be used to set the example to kids of what will be brought to bear on their shit side parent who mistakes themselves as being important beyond what they earn by their behaviors and choices. Shit stinks. Treat it accordingly. Regardless of who the source of the stench may be.
Don't over think it, don't over care. Defend the gates against the proven enemies. If they learn and correct their crap, things can improve. If not, they get no consideration.
IMHO of course.
I never understood the “I didn’t ask for her “ comments
Like, seriously, no one asked to be born. No one asked for or had a say in their biological parents. So, no, of course you didn't "ask" for your step-parent. Just as your parents didn't ask for who your spouse is either. It's an absolutely non-sensical statement and the only reason for saying it is for someone to justify leaving someone out and not even trying to themself.