Emotional Emeshment...SD Crossing The Line Into Incest
23 year old SD has never been interested in boys and or men...did not have a boyfriend all through high school and college and is still single without ever having experienced any kind of relationship. She is not gay. Not sure she has ever been sexually active. SD is a pretty, intelligent female who should not have any trouble attracting decent males.
Here's the apple not falling far from the tree perspective: according to DH, BM witheld sex throughout marriage, albeit would overtly flirt with other men particularly when she was drunk and feeling attention-deprived. BM told DH that she had a difficult time with sex because she had been sexually abused by a family member (DH does not know if this is true). BM also had an affair on DH with a co-worker. BM is still trying to control DH through financial strings and poisoning the well with SKIDS. SD & BM like to call themselves BFFs.
SD is emotionally emeshment with both BM and DH. DH has been actively working on the emeshment issues this last year: clearly stating boundaries and calling SD out on unacceptable behavior, disengaging, supporting the fact that "our" relationship comes "first" with words and actions to prove it. However, I am wary and concerned of SD's continued behavior because over the last years I "feel" (my intuition plus SD's brazen behavior) like she is pushing the emotional emeshment with DH into an area that smacks of incest. DH is repulsed and repelled by these behaviors as well, but in the past has not known what to do when SD does them.
- She has aked DH to share a twin bed with her when he helped her move (he said "no" and slept in chair).
- There has been a sexually overt lap sitting incident where she was grinding on DH (read previous post).
- SD always pushes to sit next to him during times we dined out and has to have DH choose for her what to eat.
- SD has written DH letters specifically asking "only him" to come visit.
- SD left her panties and bra hanging over DH's robe at my home and asked DH to tell me..."that she left them because she'd be back" (this was right before she was moving out of state).
There's been other incidents, but I'm trying to keep this short.
DH is supposed to visit her in 3 months for a weekend and she has specifically asked him (at least 3x) not to bring me. He is supposed to stay in her apartment, but she only has a twin bed. He wants me to go, but I have no desire to play "nice, nice" to someone who has disrespected me and wants me out of the picture YET I feel that I need to go to make the statement..."US or nothing." Over the last 6 years, I have never halted or hampered DH visiting and/or taking short trips with her - thought it was a mentally healthy thing to do. It took 4 years into our relationship before I actually had dinner with her, DH and myself as she always wanted DH to herself.
I'm not sure how to ask this question except to simply shoot from the hip. Do you think SD has serious emotional emeshment / daddy issues that would result in her attempting to seduce DH with incestual intent? This kind of thing has never encroached on my world - it's dysfunction on a whole new level for me. SD competes with me on everything - it's a ridiculous no win situation that only makes her seem more desperate and deplorable. I have disengaged. DH is ready to disengage completely, but SD is is still playing games and we are up in the air about the visit in 3 months. Any SMs out there who experienced the same, I would appreciate input.
Geez, it's a wonder your
Geez, it's a wonder your husband would even WANT to be alone with this girl. Something is not right with her. Why on Earth would she want him to sleep in her bed with her? A twin, no doubt.
What does he say to her when she specifically asks him NOT to bring you?
I wouldn't want to go, either, but I might just have to, like you said, to make a statement (that your husband should have already verbally made).
If he goes alone, he should take an air mattress and a pump. Or, stay in a hotel.
Honestly, my husband would probably not go without me, even if I insisted. He just wouldn't go, if his daughter made him that uncomfortable.
I would not let your DH visit her alone.
Go with. And stay in a hotel. This young woman obviously has problems.
Your DH is ready to disengage FROM HIS OWN DAUGHTER which has red flags all over it. There is something very twisted going on, but only your SD can get help for herself. Which she probably won't do.
IMO, your DH should never visit her alone from now on. Suggest any visits be in a public place (restaurant) and make sure that you sit next to him at all times.
If she begins pulling any of her inappropriae behavior, you are perfectly within your rights to call her on it. Tell her exactly what she is doing, how inappropriate it is (for an adult female), and that she should seek professional help. And make SURE your DH backs you up! Figure out your gameplan of dealing with her, and the two of you should not waiver.
WT! I must live in a bubble
WT! I must live in a bubble or have been lucky to never deal with something like this. None of this is normal. Never leave this girl alone with your husband.
My SD was very similar.
My SD was very similar. Finding her thongs on the bathroom floor, bright red bras over the shower rod, she'd comment on how "cute" her father is making everyone cringe, cuddle with him on the sofa...the whole bit. It always seemed desperate and needy more than anything.
I never thought it was sexual on my husband's part, and really not on SD's part either. Flirting is how she communicates with all men -- her cousins, her dad, the cop writing her a ticket, her uncles. She's an only child and the only girl in two generations making it all the more "normal" for her to be the coquette among her harem. I've often wondered if it got worse after I came on the scene and she felt threatened. She's be hanging all over him and I'd just be sitting across the room feeling like I should look away.
I once made a comment that my parrot, who was very attached to my husband, screamed so much when SD was around because they were sitting on the sofa like lovers -- it did not go over very well with SD. It was as if I called her out on something everyone else had chosen to ignore.
Husband and I addressed this and other things therapy. In short, the therapist told my husband he has to put a stop to the physical stuff. For example, the therapist told him never to sit on the sofa when SD is at the house so she can't snuggle up to him and end up on his lap. He was told to always specifically choose a chair so she has no access.
It's ridiculous to think he had to be so strategic about where he put his ass, but it worked. Your husband can do the same: position himself physically to be out of her reach. This "rejection" of the physical with SD can start the ball rolling on breaking the emotional enmeshment.
Stand your ground
A similar situation happened with my SD. She was fine, but territorial when I was dating her dad for two years. When she went off to college, we got engaged and then married. After our marriage, she moved in with us and started doing weird things that started out as always wanted to sit next to her dad, and have private jokes and conversations, to flirting and then overtly sexual behavior. It did not stop until I kicked her out and DH became disgusted with her non-stop flirting. He has to let her know that their relationship is father / daughter and not dating and mini-wife.
He needs to skip the trip or take you to show her that you are not divided and that you are his WIFE and top priority. It took us two years to straighten out this mess she started and I wish I had put a stop to it sooner. I wanted to give them lots of alone time, as I thought that was what she needed. But in reality, she somehow wanted to show her dad that she could be the wife and not me. After lots of work and boundaries, things are getting better but it’s her dad that must set the boundaries, not you. And for a long period of time, you should always be with your husband to show her that you are a team and to support him. My husband was so appalled by his daughter’s sexual coming on to him that he froze. He needed support when he was with her to stop the weird behavior. Once she sees that is doesn’t work, she will stop. But it takes time, clear boundaries and consistency from both of you.
I would treat the entire
I would treat the entire issue, as you would any other woman that is coming on to your DH. If your DH is uncomfortable with his DD and her actions, tell him you can stay in a hotel and you will go with him anytime he wants you to go.
Disengage and ignore this sick lady. Support your DH as long as he is in your corner.
What is the purpose of the
What is the purpose of the upcoming visit in 3 months? If he's going there to help her with something I would suggest DH let her know he can't make it and hire it out to a local handyman, mover, or whatever she needs. Just visiting, catching up, seeing her? Make it a short passing through day trip where you all grab lunch, see a sight and are on your way to a romantic couples destination. Avoid her apartment at all costs!
SD obviously has enmeshment problems that are likely fueled by BM. She claims she was molested by a family member so maybe in her mind it's okay for SD to be overtly sexual with her father, especially since it's serving the purpose of driving a wedge between the two of you.
ss33 has come over and sat with thighs touching DH. It's like he has to take up the space so I can't sit next to my husband. He wins, I leave the room and let DH deal with his emotionally crippled spawn.
Obligation calls
I like your suggestion about...pass through...grab lunch...see a sight and head towards a romatic couples destination. We would more than likely have to go see her apartment though. She also has a roomate and it's 700 sf so I would think that asking DH to stay is an inconvenience to roomate and would be very uncomfortable for all. SD has been beguiling for many years about putting DH in situations where she could be alone with him.
SD relocated to the northeast last October when she graduated. BM, who is living vicariously through SD, has visited 4x (maybe more) since move. DH, although he dislikes big cities, feels obliged to visit which is understandable because BM has been playing "I'm the better parent." When BM visits, she and SD act like BFF's out on the town partying - complete emotional enmeshment. Last January, DH received a letter from SD saying..."I will buy YOU a ticket, just let me know when YOU are ready to visit." Since then there have been ample texts implying that DH should come alone. DH and I always intended to visit together and get a hotel room while we were there.
Due to my work constraints and hesitation to visit because SD has made it clear I am not invited, DH decided to buy a ticket a for October and visit for a weekend. SD's first question was, "who is coming?" When DH replied, "just me." SD's response was, "Great! We are going to have an awesome time together." If I were to tell my mentally healthy BD (who is the same age and also lives in another state) that I was coming to visit she would assume it was both DH and I and be happy about it. DH's son is the same.
DH told SD last weekend that he is "uncomfortable with the way she has behaved." This was right before he told her that, "J is my priority." He told me how the dialogue went and my response was, "the ball is in her court now...let's wait to see how she responds." I think it will be silence until she can come up with a manipulation she thinks will work. We will most likely go and visit, have our own hotel room and take up your suggestion.