I wouldn't be comfortable with your situation either.

I feel your pain. Let me tell you this...if you dont nip it in the beginning it will not get any better.

My husband talks to his ex ALL the time. We have been married for almost two years. Though they do have a 12 year old daughter, but still the 12 year old is big enough to relay messages. But, we are not even going to get started on the sd.

I say have a talk with him and tell him how it makes you feel!

Here is the problem as I see it.

These "kids" are not little any more. While your future husband and his ex may have wanted to stay amicable for the sake of the "kids" while they were younger, that excuse is no longer valid.

And now, it bothers YOU. And your future husband is discounting how YOU feel about this situation. He is placing YOU behind his adult "children" and his ex-wife. You, who should be first in his life as his future wife, are placing 3rd. Is this where you really want to be in his life?

He needs to cut the cord. His behaviors are unacceptable and over the boundaries of normalcy because they make YOU uncomfortable. Changing at his ex's house? Having beers in her room with his kid until 12:30am? I wouldn't be happy with that either.

If he is not willing to listen to your concerns, I would NOT move forward in marrying him. It WILL NOT get better.

Have you tried counseling?

"So he chose courtesy for her over courtesy for me."
---------------------------------------------------

This is what I had to explain to my DH. He would go to BM's house for skids birthdays or sporting events...whatever. He be there for hours & hours. They lived about 2 1/2 hours from us & there were nights he didn't get home until 12:30 or 1:00am because he didn't leave until the kids were in bed. I would call & his phone would be off, or he'd leave it in the car. I cried about it everytime he did it. The last time it happened, he went to SD's cheerleading banquet & then they had a party at BM's house afterward. He'd taken the camcorder to record the banquet, & then when I was so upset about him not having the courtesty to call at some point he told me that him, BM, & skids all sat around watching old home movies together. I got upset & he said it was BM's idea & the kids wanted to see them, so he stayed. He didn't want to call while BM was around because it'd hurt her feelings. That's when I was finally able to put my thoughts into words & told him I was so tired of being the runner-up. He acted like he didn't understand, & I pointed out all the times that he was willing to hurt my feelings to spare hers. He got it.

The problem being is that your BF is not respecting your feelings. Have you conveyed your feelings reagarding these things to him? Because the issue here is not jealousy on your part, it's him being able to apply the correct boundaries toward his ex. Your feelings are justified here.

I had to have a male counselor tell my DH that he was about to be divorced and living alone with the dog if he didn't change his behavior. I still don't know why my DH would not listen to me and it took another man to make him see that. We had many knock down drag outs over these things.

I could give you a million ways my DH was doing the same crap. Wanting to ask BM to ride to soccer games, going out and cleaning BM's house (wanting me to also), going out to BM's house making dinner for the kids (of course BM got to eat too), fixing things at BM's house and paying for the repairs, mowing BM's pasture for her, doing her taxes, calling her 500 times a day checking and asking about his almost adult children who had their own cell phones, yaya yada all in the name of the skids. Going over there on Christmas instead of having them at our house because you know that is their family home. The list could go on and on but you get it, I know!

It took a few years to get him to change. We're past all that now, but he still enables his now adult children to continue bad behavior in other ways. Just not as bad.

I for sure would not consider marrying this man until you see he is capable of changing. You just need to tell him exactly how you feel about it and don't back down. He needs to draw some lines. Good luck!

Im probably pretty harsh in my opinion on this one, because I dont have any bio kids. But my harshnedd lies more with the ex issue than skids/kids.

In my opinion, ANY time with the ex is too much time. with the exception of a few things.

1. Anything with the kids well being. Behavior, school issues, doctor, being sick, getting hurt etc.
2. Anything with the kids sporting events. If you need to converse to relay times of games, place of attendance, etc. Sure thats fine. But the line draws there.
I think its great if you can get along at these events, have small VERY talk, give a head nod, etc. but THATS IT. You dont need to go together, talk abotu it afterwords over a nice little sundae cone at the icecrean shop. Youre divorced. GO to the games, youre supposed to be there for the KIDS remember?? Not the other ex whatever.
3. Dont call or email or text about inlaws either. Unless they are sick or dying, we dont need to know about it other than to maybe relay it to the child so they can see them, etc.
4. Dont call tect or email that you finally found the pizza cutter. No one cares.

I think I have made my point and the last two are more personal I guess.. but valid nonetheless.
YOU ARE DIVORCED. Be cordial, fine. I get it, but there is a line.
If you want to be with a new person, you better figure out the boundaries, or youre going to find yourself divorced again, buster.
That is all.

well, hopefully now that youngest has graduated -- it's over! until weddings and shit -- but you will be there...

if he pulled any more of that extra time with the EX on my ass, i would tell him to learn how to suck his own dick, b/c the honk on bo-bo days are over! apparently, i wouldn't deal with it well, either.

good luck!

To answer your question,

Too much time is whenever DH and BM do things that resemble a "family" or even "friendship" think of it this way. If they are acting in a non-business manner, then, that is TOO MUCH CONTACT.

Ex partners should have a business-like relationship, nothing less, nothing more. Spending time in the same room while drinking and such is definitely NOT business like.

Oh wow...I can SO RELATE!
My bf just finished f'ing his BM last Sept and they still have the nerve to plan 'financial meetings' to discuss support payments/budgets and their kids every couple of mths! He bends and bows to her wishes, and neither respect my feelings. He says he does, but so far I haven't seen too much evidence of this at all. I tell him I'm really not sure why they're separated at all if they get along so well tbh. He gets mad at me and says she's the mother of his children so she'll always be a part of his life- meanwhile the kids are all teenagers and nearly grown. Really? When does a man finally realistically need to just let go of his ex's apron strings?! It's pathetic.

Does the BM know you exsist? If she knows her ex has a fiance', then she is just a self-centered, inconsiderate b*tch and she's LOVING the power that she has and you DON'T have over your man. She wont go away and it's your bf's fault. I would forget about him. There is someone out there who would treat you like your feelings matter.

Am getting married on Friday to a wonderful man. He has adult children ages 23, 25 and 28. One lives out of state and was going to be coming to his siblings on the weekend. He wanted to see the son but got a phone call over the weekend saying "they were not comfortable" with our being there with the BM. I say BS. His ex initiated the divorce. In reading the posts previously, I agree that we set boundries by which we will be treated by others, and this will ultimately include his children. I will wait to see what transpires after the marriage, but in reading the posts, if this continues to be an issue with baby showers or wedding showers we both may be at, I will be gracious. Thanks for this site, it is excellent.

~~ My bf will not call me and rarely texts when he is around his children. He tells me it is disrespectful to them. ~~

I do think his kids have an issue with you, and he has perhaps minimized your presence in his life. You're casual.

A friend of mine was 23 when her folks split, and her dad's new gf showed up a little while later. My girlfriend was so against the relationship, her dad made it seem inconsequential. Then he married the gf a few years later. They remained married for about 12 years. My gf caused drama the WHOLE time, and the marriage eventually collapsed and my gf was happy about it.

The whole time he was married, he spent ime as a family with my girlfriend and her mom, even so far as christmas dinners and SPENT the night. Sure, his own room, but still. NUTS.

I don't think he's seeing anyone else, but he is being led by the nose by his ex AND the kids. When a man wants to be with you- he will move mountains.

I've been dating a divorced guy for 2.5 years, with grown kids all over the age of 21, and he has recently suggested we try living together.
My ground rule is that he needs to have the family home sold before we embark on a partnership ... That home was required to house the kids until 21 so now it's eligible to be legally sold.
So, he went ahead and told BM (who has a volatile personality and who has always been daggers drawn with him...even though she ended their marriage by cheating...that she needs to move out this summer so the house can be sold. She has had the 25 yr old son and his GF living with her to "save money" even though they both have full time professional jobs. This was not likely welcome news for them.

It has been glaringly obvious since then that ex wife has been trying to make nice with BF ... And its obvious to any fool that she knows the only way to stay in the mansion is to have XH move back in. She would have a serious standard of living downgrade otherwise.

So this week, their son who is 25 had his birthday and insisted that his wish was for his parents to join him for dinner at a restaurant and get along. The GF told someone I know that their plan is to get Mom and Dad back together. They in turn told me this. These two, BF and Ex, have barely spoken in 14 years.

So what does BF do ... He happily went to the dinner and did not tell me about it. I waited four days then asked him...he didnt mention the ex being there until I spedifically asked, then his reaction was anger that someone had ratted him out! I simply said I felt it was dishonest of him not to have told me, since here I am planning to give up my job, sell my house and leave my city to move to where he is, while he is out wining and dining the ex? He says he would do anything for his "kids" and fine, while I understand the sentiment, I think it is peculiarly coincidental that he too is suddenly friendly to her.

Anyway, I've already gone NC with him since I think the writing is on the wall. What a friggin waste of 2.5 years, but at least I hadnt quit the job yet. Just feeling sad and needed to vent. This time last week our relationship seemed perfectly happy. With this situation though, my gut tells me I dodged a bullet.

In my opinion, as the kids in question are now grown up, anytime your BF spends with his ex and not with you is too much time! Some men want their bread buttered on both sides. In our case, I tried for three years to talk to FDH and explain how hurt I felt every time he put his ex's feelings over mine. Now in our case its all out war with DH and BM but then again, their anger at each other was very emotional and that in itself was a red flag for them still being invested in each other. A red flag I turned a blind eye to. It took me moving out of our shared home and breaking up with him for him to realize that he could either stay a lonely man in the house (without the dog even) and pandering to his ex's tantrums and nonsense or go to counseling with me. Like one of the posters above, it took a couple's counselor to state "what the heck did you stay around for three years for!!" to me, in front of FDH before the light dawned on him. I had blocked his phone, moved away and he could not contact me. He turned up at my job asking me for a second chance and I did agree to go with him to counseling. That was two years ago and we are much MUCH happier now. I gave it time before I moved back in. He had to prove to me that I am always first in his life. I was so hurt and upset but did feel validated when we went to counseling. Our BM was in other relationships but still wanted to dangle FDH on her little finger. I think we put up with way too much crap and stuff our emotions down or shake off these feelings of jealousy. He used to say to me......you are too sensitive, too emotional, blah blah blah. No, today I own my feelings and I own my absolute God given right to be the first in my chosen man's life and not some bit on the side while he panders to his spoiled dramatic ex wife. Talk to your BF and if he doesn't listen, do the talking with your feet........by walking.

Thanks, Anna. I think the difficult issue for me is that DH's mantra of "my kids will always come first" is applied as a blanket policy that allows him to just be swayed by whatever whims strike them. He works incredibly hard at his own business, then spends gobs of money on the lazy ass 20 something kiddies who are driving sports cars but dont have enough spare change for rent. I am absolutely sure they are so shallow that they would rather ruin their father's relationship with me than have to finally be independent by moving out of the family house.

Of course, i cannot control DH being manipulated by them, except to point out how he is being manipulated. He told me it is a "ridiculous notion" that his kids and ex would conspire to stay in the house. This is after the DIL/son's GF specifically said this was their goal!

I guess I can only observe DH's disappointing behaviour and kick myself once again for ignoring any misgivings I might have had at the start. Any guy who tells you his "grown kids will always come first no matter what" has NOT moved past his divorce. His wife cheated 14 years ago in a most horrible and publicly humiliating way and he thinks the kids somehow need to be compensated for the "trauma" forever. Th "kids" have made it quite clear that they could care less how their mother behaves. She's had several volatile relationships with local men in the past 14 years, and quite frankly looks like the used old whore she is.

DH suffers from guilty Dad syndrome; he wants everyone to like him; he avoids conflict even to the point of not defending his own future; and I suspect, has never allowed himself to hate his cheater ex just enough to dismiss any notion of magically finding himself back at Disneyland with the kids & ex. Sort of a weird kind od Peter Pan. Yuk, what did I see in him. We had a lot of fun when the rest of them were not aware of our relationship becoming serious...but now I'm a threat...so the knives are out.

I really suspect that DH is in fact passive enough to not man up and save our relationship. He would probably tell himself "I there, I've made another sacrifice for my kids and so that makes me a good father".

Oh my gosh, you are serious? This is just simply not OK. You are not jealous, you just have marital/replationship boundaries. Pretty sure that if you get you another man and start drinking beer and watching movies at his house, or going on outings and trips and not contacting your husband as not to upset the other man you would dang sure hear about it!

Gesh! No. Just no.

I don't know if you have ever been a step parent before, but this has horrid disaster written all over it. Lot's more drama in the future with this man.

I'm sorry, there is just no justifying his relationship in this manner with his ex. Even worse, he KNOWS this already and is DOING it any way despite YOUR feelings in the least. He doesn't need you to tell him this is appropriate. He knows it already, he just simply doesn't care.

Clutter,
I did have a summative skype call with DH about this situation the other night. I started out by saying that since we are contemplating cohabitation, that it was time to agree on some boundaries and guidelines so the kids understand that some sorts of contact are not wanted, i.e. Optional dinners with the ex. I cannot believe that a 25 yr old's birthday wish would be for old cheater mom and chump dad to finally smoke the peace pipe.

DH's 25 yr old son is in fact a bit of a candy ass, someone my own sons would likely laugh at. Fortunately they all live 3000 miles apart so will hardly ever meet. He is a poser, sits in the cafes and preens in his sports car...and lives in mom's basement with his GF, who is a mid 30''s import from an Asian country (not to disparage immigrants, but she is clearly there for the free ride). They now have decent jobs but it is very expensive to live here so they wouldn't be able to live high if they had rent to pay. Total users. And Mom just enables it. Dad will not criticize...he says "my kids wil never suffer poverty like I did"

DH had all sorts of comebacks to my very reasonable requests for a discussion, and during this, I basically watched him with growing disdain, since any guy who cannot even have a rational discusion without taking offence is a waste of oxygen to me. He tried any number of gaslighting, blame game, straight out bullshit, until I gave up and hung up the call. Have not contacted him since.

Ugh, why am I even thinking about this, leaving is a no brainer. Just sad and need to find something to keep my pea brain busy.

I totally get it. Sometimes we get wrapped up in "love" and trying to "understand" their situation with THEIR kids. We want to step up to the plate, and be the bigger, supportive person. We don't want to nag, we will just stay in our place and understand that we are outsider. It's OK, because our H (or future H) will come around, right?

Well, I know I did that prior to marriage. It seems embarrasing to admit that now, but it is a slippery mindset.

The reality is that the man is not going to change. If they are doing things like this in the beginning...JUST THINK of how much worse it gets.

My H and I have had to scrape and dig out of a HUGE ditch based on the importance he put on his ex and disregard he gave me. I thought I could handle it and it was harmless (for some reason at the time). Truth is, it never changed. I was actually pitiful enough to beg, plead, cry, pitch fits to get his attention. None of it worked because his "kid came first" and he would do whatever it took to keep BM happy.

Let's just say...our marriage was over.

We are still together but it hasn't been pretty. It's full of resentment, pull and tug, reminders, ultimatums, disengagement, insecurity, fear of the future, depression, anxiety and sadness.

I am trying to be hopeful because we do have a BD together.

Makes me think just being married with a man without a prior kid would be a CINCH compared. I was never married before, so I got an instafamily.

My advice, just don't be sucked in. Stick with your boundaries and just remember you are a GIFT to him. If he doesn't change his ways...like TODAY. I would seriously beg you not to marry him.

Oh...and I have to also add...

if this marriage of mine doesn't work...

I. WILL. NEVER. EVER. EVER. EVER. BE A STEP PARENT AGAIN!

Trust me, you will find something to do! ANYTHING will be better than putting up with this mess and getting in the situation.

I PROMISE!!!

Go to bible study, watch netflix, read books, tour vinyards, vacate to beautiful beaches, take long baths, join the gym and get super in shape, learn to cook fancy meals, REST IN PEACE at night. I mean the list goes on...and I'm actually getting jealous that you have all these options ahead of you should you leave him LOL!

Have already cancelled my ticket to see him first week of May. Going on a cooking course in Sicily instead. He can suck eggs. Sounds harsh...no, he will never change. The clunker: when I asked him the other night what he saw as the advantage of living with me, he replied, totally straight faced...your BJ's and your cooking. I almost came through the screen of my iPad at him. Stupid moron,

This is a guy who has actually treated me very well for the past two years. Not sure what's happened, but it ain't pretty!

It's shocking to see the pathological level some people go to, in order to defend their offspring. Dumb like an ox.

It was very hard for me to leave because I loved him. But I will say that things changed completely for us. FDH realized he was letting a wonderful woman go (and modest!) and this was exactly what his ex and kids wanted. She told him she wants him to die a lonely old man. I still have to put up with skid stuff and BM drama but these days it's us as a couple in it together. I don't put up with crap from the skids and FDH takes control when they revert to type. So I guess what I am saying is that some men can change. Stay strong, you are worth having a wonderful man who puts you first in his life.