How long before kids should meet SO

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My ex-husband has MAJOR issues. Even though he only has supervised visitation, I have allowed my kids to stay with him on weekends off and on when I knew he was in a more positive mind frame. There have also been times when I did not allow them. Without going too far into the whys, he is a psychopath. My role in the past 7 years has been to protect my children without being "that mom" who keeps dad away. Sometimes I feel I'm not cautious enough, and I'm always trying to find that balance.

So he has a girlfriend of 7 weeks or so. Last weekend, he came to our son's baseball game (he NEVER comes to anything) and brought her. He wanted "them" to take him out to dinner. (Meanwhile, he didn't even bother to let my daughter know he would be there and didn't seem concerned about seeing her at all. She had stayed home.) He hadn't seen our children really at all for almost 3 months. I told him I wanted to wait some time before the kids spent time with her, not only because I feel it's wrong that he can't take time away from her to spend time with his children (he uses them to play Father of the Year), but also because the last time he brought a girl around them, she ended up committing suicide! He is not healthy and does not bring healthy people into his life.

I saw a message on kik from him to my son, stating that he and his girlfriend would be in town this Sat. So although he agreed to wait on all this, TWO WEEKS LATER he thinks is enough time, apparently, and doesn't feel he should ask me about it before going to our son (13).

How long in general do you think parents should wait before bringing SO's into the picture? How long in this situation? Kids are 13 and 11.

Relationships move much more

Relationships move much more quickly as we age so I'm not sure if there's an ideal timeframe that applies to everyone. Responsible parents will always make the best decision they can in the moment and as long as we have their best interest in mind and a history and pattern of doing right by them, then I wouldn't apply any timeline too them. Based on situation you described, I think your concerns are valid. Consider that he's making more of an effort than previously with his kids so GF might be a positive influence? I guess my question is why are you concerned with the introduction? If your concerned about their general physical and emotional health or safety, then be concerned. If it's anything related to you then you need to deal with those unresolved feelings and just be aware. They're only going to get older and you won't be able to control the relationship as they gain independence.

The problem with him making

The problem with him making more of an effort is that it *really* is only because he wants to show them off. He uses them to convince people that he is normal. It's a part of his con game. It isn't because she is a positive influence (although she might be a great girl, I was and once he is done with them, he will spiral down into his normal pattern and his life will start falling apart, whether she remains or not. As a matter of fact, I have to even doubt his intentions with her, because he is likely using her to convince his family, (or himself) that he is straight. His first wife's family and most of mine are convinced he is gay, but because of his religious upbringing, he can never come to admit it.

I definitely have NO feelings toward him at all. I absolutely cannot stand him and avoid looking at him when I do have to acknowledge his existence. We've been apart for 7 years and I've had two LTR during that time.

Meeting his gf's isn't going

Meeting his gf's isn't going to be the problem as long as you explain that not all relationships last forever and these are some that didn't. But the father coming in and out of their lives when ever it suits him...that's the problem. If it were me, I would stick to the supervised visits only, no extra, no surprise dinners and wait until he can prove that he's there for them through bad and good. When it's convienent and when it's not for him to be there. Don't let him teach your children that a wishy washy dad is the right kind of dad to be.

This is true. She isn't the

This is true. She isn't the problem. It's him using them that is the problem. I just recently have started having conversations with my kids about this. They have been conflicted, especially my son, who is the oldest. I let them know that what he has been doing is not okay and it has nothing to do with them. They go back and forth between anger and then it all disappears, because he's Dad, after all.

Wow now I'm beginning to

Wow now I'm beginning to understand why you want to protect them so very much. I guess all you can do is prepare the kids for the inevitable and find ways to delay the meeting - I would fill their calendars with so many activities, events, sleepovers with friends that they keep having to reschedule. Hopefully by that time his interest in them has passed and you spare them any distress. Good luck and sending you lots of hugs :).

Dh and I waited 6 months. It

Dh and I waited 6 months. It is a BIG step! It worked for us. It is all too easy to turn your dating life into a parade of "not the ones"... I don't think that there is a magic number, but for the love, can Ya at the very least wait until it's MORE then casual?!

Warning.......I'm going to be

Warning.......I'm going to be a huge asshole and tell you that you won't get one iota of advice or sympathy from me.

You admitted that your exH is a psychopath and on supervised visitation. Then you went on to say you allowed your kids to be with him outside of the bounds of those restrictions.....because YOU felt he was in a good frame of mind.

Am I right so far? Yes?

Now you're asking advice on how to limit who your exH can introduce to your children?

Right again?? Yes?

Did you read what you wrote?? I want you to march to a mirror, look yourself right in the eyes and say "I have completely and utterly fucked myself and my kids."

Unless you're a licensed psychiatrist and are able to sufficiently judge the mental state of another human being, then you had no business whatsoever allowing your kids around your exH (outside the supervised visitation schedule). You have screwed your kids and yourself with your bad choices. Hopefully there will be limited consequences to your kids for your mistake.

Well, I can guarantee you

Well, I can guarantee you that after living with the man for 10 years, I know him better than any "licensed psychiatrist" ever will, so that's a moot point. The only reason he only has supervised visitation is because it was our starting point in court and he didn't fight it. Go figure. It's not like "the system" or judge found that he was SO bad that he required supervised visitation. Moms on drugs don't have supervised visitation, so I never thought in a million years it would happen. But it has been VERY nice over the years because I have been able to refrain from visits when necessary.

Who determines what affects the kids more... having NO dad, or having a dad with issues? LOTS of DH's here are really shitty fathers. Lots of them have similar issues. Some of them even have custody!

Psychologists have no clue

Psychologists have no clue what their patients do the second they set a foot outside their office door. They cannot say anything with certainty, and they do not follow their patients into the real world and see what they actually do/say/think/act. Psychopaths go to counseling for ONE reason only, and that is to get better at their game. While I have taken numerous psych courses for my degree, life has been a much better teacher than a classroom. And while he agreed to weekly counseling in mediation, I was told immediately not to push it because it would do me/my kids absolutely no good.

I have to agree with Echo,

I have to agree with Echo, though I have not taken any psych classes, my brother suffers from mental illness and so does my UIL. Brother does not want to get help, but does know exactly what to say to us to make us believe he is doing better. UIL takes five medications daily, one antipsychotic because he does not want to be the man labels as a psychopath. He wants to be a better man. Maybe your ex should want the same, and if he doesn't, then you should keep the kids away from him for their own good.

Nope, he was around. We lived

Nope, he was around. We lived a block away from each other in a small town. He literally showed up to court without an attorney and agreed to supervised visitation. At the time he was highly depressed (2nd marriage failing), and could barely take care of himself. That's why I started w/ supervised, but certainly didn't expect it to happen. Even the judge was shocked.

And he really is a psychopath. People know psychopaths in their day to day life and have no clue until they get close to them and see the behavior. They don't all murder and eat people, like the movies want you to think.

No dad will screw a kid

No dad will screw a kid up...a messed up dad will screw a kid up but most likely the kid will understand when he or she is older. A dad that is screwed up and comes in and out of their lives when ever he wants to use them will cause as much damage as a non existant dad. No, I don't have a psych degree, that's just my opinion. I also feel like it starts a pattern for your son to walk in and out of his future kids lives when the mood strikes because he has seen that that is what dads do and mom thought it was ok.
Dealing with mental illness in my family...I knew my brother better than any psychiatrist as well, but the problem was he knew me too and knew how to act so that I wouldn't think he was having his "moments" again.

"I also feel like it starts a

"I also feel like it starts a pattern for your son to walk in and out of his future kids lives when the mood strikes because he has seen that that is what dads do and mom thought it was ok."

I have told him it is not okay or normal for a dad to do this. And I have told him it's not okay with me. There is nothing I can really do about it. They want to see their dad. I can't ban him completely from their lives. The best I can do is monitor and proceed, monitor and proceed. The sad thing is that their father is a genius and could teach them SO much about computers, building, etc. and it's just not important to him at all. I really screwed up picking him to marry and have kids. For the next 8 years I have to figure out the best way for the kids to experience the best possible given the situation. No matter what, it's going to suck for them. I want to make it suck less.

You've told your son, but

You've told your son, but with all your classes, and being married to a man with mental illness I'm sure you know that actions speak louder than words. He might here what you are saying, but he sees what you are letting happen. No don't ban him, but stick with your CO and don't push for the him to take the kids, and don't allow it either.

He can't hurt the children

He can't hurt the children physically because it would ruin his game. He literally would not. ALL his abuse is psychological. I know this is hard to believe because you have experienced a different kind of crazy. The only time I've been concerned about him harming the kids is when he was in a depressed state, that he might drive off a cliff with them in the car. But I have ALWAYS been concerned about the psychological aspect. Violence is not synonymous with psychopathy. He was not physically abusive to me, always psychologically abusive. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy_Checklist#The_two_factors

Again, dealing this with

Again, dealing this with multiple family members, psychopathy is synonymous with violence. Even if you trust him to not harm the kids you are putting them in a situation where they could be psychologicaly abused? Is not being labeled "that mother" really worth your childrens metal well being?

My Skid (SS-22) was on the

My Skid (SS-22) was on the first date that his mom and I had. He was only 15mos old so the situation was very different than the one you are dealing with but ..... that is how it worked for us.

If your XH is a psychopath and incapable of being a positive influence or bringing positive indluences into your children's lives then I completely support your caution.

There is no set time that this right to introduce a new SO to a kid. For each relationship and personality mix it will be different.

Trust your instinct.

I waited about three months.

I waited about three months. Would have been longer, but my family felt it was lying to my son. Different situation though, I was a widow and it had been three years since he died.

^^^THIS^^^ Great post and I

^^^THIS^^^ Great post and I agree with everything you said. Especially the point that the OP is not with her ex day in and day out, so how would she know what "frame of mind" he's in?

I also want to also add that suicide is NOT contagious. If it were possible, I wouldn't have thought twice about letting my children hang out with Robin Williams.

Yes, he was diagnosed at the

Yes, he was diagnosed at the end of his first marriage. She tried REALLY hard, in a "mother's state" to get supervised visitation for her daughter, but he got regular, EOWE/holiday schedule. And that marriage ended with him getting arrested for setting up cameras in their bedroom and bathroom. THAT didn't even help her case. Now, I didn't find out a lot of this until after, obviously, and during the marriage had no clue why he did the things he did until I spoke with her after it was all done and it made a lot of sense. She went through that whole "should I warn her?" phase when we first started dating, but then enjoyed the fact that he started paying his child support because of me (plus her mom told her I wouldn't listen...)

Anyway, I do agree with the fact that I'm not there day to day and don't know his mental state. I don't EVER think he is being sweet and nice.

I asked the question, because I would like to come up with a benchmark of what is a healthy timeframe, not to keep them away. After posting it, it actually occurred to me that he has no reason to EVER need to introduce them because he hardly ever sees them, they aren't going to his house, and it's not like he can't have dinner with them for a few freaking hours alone. I mean, it's one thing to have your kids all the time and never have time off with them and taking them to go do something fun with your SO, but he doesn't have that issue. Why would they ever need to meet her? I'm being told on one hand "don't ever let them go unsupervised" to "don't be a hypocrite" and let them go with whomever he wants to bring around. If his time with them is limited, why does she even need to be in the picture? They will never live with her, they don't need to get to know each other. Don't you guys ALL the time say "it's Dad's time" and go to your rooms and read or watch tv, etc.? Or go do your own thing to avoid the skids?

ALLLLLLL that said...obviously I've not had a problem with him bringing them around other girls before. I actually feel sorry for this one. But I'm more worried about keeping HIM at a distance due to some recent shenanigans, not because I all of a sudden decided to be a bitch. Keep in mind, he is psychologically abusing us all, and sometimes it is just too damn much to deal with on top of being a parent 24/7.

Honestly, I think most

Honestly, I think most posters have a point.

The girlfriend is irrelevant. Whether he wants to "show off" to her or "look normal" or whatever his motivation is, is irrelevant. Whether the kids meet her after they've been dating 7 weeks or 7 months is irrelevant. If Dad had regular custody time (even EOWE) it might be a bigger concern, but given the irregularity with which they see their dad, some random chick coming to dinner is a non-event.

No, the bigger concern is what you glossed over - is your exH a true psychopath? As in, "a diagnosed medical condition for which he should be on medication"? Or is he just an asshole who treats people badly? Is he an abuser? Has he ever - even ONCE - hurt the kids? You?

Obviously you don't have to answer those questions, but the answers to those questions would dictate the advice you get on whether to allow your ex to see the kids more frequently, or for this dinner, or ever again. The girlfriend doesn't matter one little bit, but whether the kids should be allowed to go to dinner with their dad is entirely dependent on his past behavior with them (which you haven't told us).

we waited 14 months before

we waited 14 months before telling SD of our relationship.

everyone is different. i think longer is best, but at the same time, you really cant dictate to him when and who to bring around his kids.

YOU have to follow the court

YOU have to follow the court order. Don't give visitations beyond that. If he is only allowed supervised visits, that is all he gets. If there is some sort of schedule in the court order, that is what he has to follow. Period.

Now, unless the court order limits who he can bring to the supervised visits, you have no say in who and when he introduces them to anyone.

YOU have to follow the court

Now, unless the court order limits who he can bring to the supervised visits, you have no say in who and when he introduces them to anyone.

An FYI on the CO: If your ex

An FYI on the CO: If your ex gets a wild hair & decides to challenge the court order, by allowing him unsupervised visitation, you've given him leverage to fight with.

The courts have given him supervised visitation based on the thought that he is not stable (from the sounds of it). By voluntarily allowing unsupervised visits, you're sending the message to the courts that there is no cause for concern...no reason to restrict his visitation.

Now, if there truly is cause for concern & you've sent the message to the courts that there is not, you're creating a potentially dangerous situation for your children.

CO's exist for a reason. Be responsible about it.

I know, this has been an

I know, this has been an issue of mine since the beginning. The truth is, if he ever wanted to take me back to court in the past 7 years, he VERY likely would have gotten the supervised removed no matter what I had done. So my goal was to be as generous as the court would have forced, with caution, so we did not have to go back to court. Also, so that I did not lose my ability to tell him no whenever I felt I needed to.

But here's the thing, his actions show/ed he has NO interest at all whatsoever in being an active dad in their lives. Realistically, he will never fight for them. He would have done it by now. He wants to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it, without being saddled with two kids, no matter how awesome they are.

Thank you everyone, for your

Thank you everyone, for your comments. I don't intend on sending my kids to their dad's house anytime soon, so don't worry. Also, I think most of you have a misunderstanding of what psychopathy really is. It can be a thug on the street or a CEO of a million dollar company. The better their upbringing, the more they have to lose, the less likely they are to get violent. Consider this accurate assessment: "Successful psychopaths - corporate high climbers who tend to have had a relatively privileged background with little risk of legal penalties. Unsuccessful psychopaths - involved in regular crime who tend to have had less privileged backgrounds and much higher risk of legal penalties." They can't be medicated (successfully) and they can't be cured.

If you have seen the movie The Other Woman, the "man" in that movie is a classic psychopath. If you haven't seen it, it's pretty funny. RedBox it! ("Blended" is even better, although largely unrealistic for most. But funny!)

I think you are confusing

I think you are confusing psychopathy with sociopathic personality disorder. Maybe as one of your teachers about that.

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How long before kids should meet SO