Questions about counselling
For those who have been following my sorry story I decided to go back to counselling today. I saw a different person and she was brilliant- she was so good that I began to see that I could maybe get DH to access some counselling too.
However, I still have some reservations about this so want some help from those who have had couples counselling.
Firstly, I have been to couple's counselling with my exDH- he saw it that it was me who had the problem not him- I left that course of therapy with the idea that I had to make the changes in my life. Although my ex had come with me, he didn't consider the counselling was for him and eventually the marriage ended. I told this to the therapist today, and that even now my ex has not changed.
So, my question is, what do I expect will happen to DH as a result of the counselling? If I don't expect some changes then why am I encouraging him to go? And if the only person who can make changes is me- then why does he need to go?
Ok despite that, I love my DH and know he is a deeply troubled person so I would like to help him because I care about him and want him to be happy.
So, anyone else encouraged their DH to go to counselling and did they/you get what you/they needed? Did your DH show that he was glad you had suggested it for him?
I realise that these are very personal questions, but would appreciate anyone's take on this.
I am going back for single-therapy a couple of times by myself, and she said that if I get DH to go alone then we can start on some joint therapy- so this is not a thing to rush. I just have a lot of water testing to do over the next few weeks.
Therapy has been very helpful
Therapy has been very helpful for us, but both have to be willing to go and do the work to make lasting changes. I wish you well!
Thanks beebeel- can you tell
Thanks beebeel- can you tell me if you asked DH to come with you? How did you go about getting him there?
We both decided it would be a
We both decided it would be a good idea and we were both in individual therapy at the time, so it was easy to combine a few appointments every month.
A joint decision- if me and
A joint decision- if me and DH could make a joint decision we wouldn't need the therapy!
DH and I both went together 3
DH and I both went together 3 times, and like you, he said everything was my issue. After that, I went without him for about 5 months.
I thought, too, that therapy would open his eyes to our issues or at least help him see my side of things. The truth is, everyone can only take care of themselves. I understand your wanting him to get help but he does not or may not think he needs it. My DH did not believe his interpretation of events was wrong. He said I was wrong. I said he was wrong. Who is right?
I will say up front that I no longer believe in couples therapy unless there is a common ground for resolution going into it. You can't go in with your DH and expect a positive outcome if he has no idea why he should be there and if he feels that these issues belong to you. It took me a long time to understand that and really get my head around it.
I do not expect anything now from ANYONE in my life. I do not have the right to expect change from others, I just have the right to not tolerate their behavior. Whether I have a relationship with anyone is based on my own tolerance of the situation.
Yes, you care about him and love him but only HE can make any decision to change. Most people don't change unless there is a pain point involved or an undesirable outcome to be avoided. Once avoided, the old ways can quickly come back.
Again, your happiness MUST be based on yourself and MUST NOT be based on the actions of DH, skids, parents or anyone else. If your entire happiness is going to be based on the actions of others, you will be sorely disappointed. You need your own strong foundation set up right first before moving on to other's issues.
ETA: If I had known all this before I lost all love for my DH, we might have made it. The changes I made in myself allowed him to open up to me and have a better relationship. Too many bad events, though, killed us as a couple. Still, it can work for you to only take care of you...
Veritas can I wrap these
Veritas can I wrap these words around my heart and carry them around with me? The therapist looked rather shocked when I told her my ex had just pretended to go along with the therapy- and even now his behaviour was exactly the same, it is just I no longer have to live with him.
Who is right? Is it more important to be right or happy? I really don't want to prove a point to DH and I certainly don't want him to think of me as a neurotic self obsessed old woman.
I think your comment about common ground is spot on- what is the common ground between myself and DH? It is bricks and mortar at the moment and a bit of companionship, but that's all.
There is no guarantee that even if DH tried to make an effort, it would soon dissipate if something came along he couldn't deal with- that also is spot on.
A few years ago I discovered mindfulness, and felt an affinity with the idea that you can only see the world from the perspective of your own experience, and that everyone has a different (although not always separate) journey to make.
I don't know why I sometimes find myself wandering away from this path, and then wondering how to get back on it!
I have a few weeks before my next appointment to concentrate on getting myself back to a position of strength and not doubt.
I have come too far to give up and pretend for DH's sake. It feels wrong.
I do think the quiet wisdom of many posters on here makes me see more clearly that I can do this- DH is almost 65 years old, he doesn't need the additional stress of talking about his shitty past- he needs a mate that is there should he need her, and a sense that they can make something of a future together without the interference or mediation of a third party.
I don't know what the future holds- who ever does? But I do know that DH having to confront his painful past isn't the way to go.
Thank you so much.
I did couples counseling with
I did couples counseling with my exH a couple of times. Note he is now my ex, although the counselor did encourage him to work on his anger issues and that was at least helpful.
My DH and I did individual counseling. Helped us both tremendously, but we were both willing participants and we each saw different therapists. We both still go back occasionally for "tune ups." Our marriage is stronger and happier than ever because WE are both stronger individuals.
My DH is 67, so I don't think your DH is too old. It was some of DH's shitty past that led him to some of the behaviors that I found hurtful, and DH loved me enough to face some old demons in order to live in the present. I had one foot out the door, so he had to make some big changes or lose me. He chose me, and it is the biggest show of love that he did this for me. I could not have predicted this outcome when we set out.
All you can do is take care of yourself, and continue to grow as a strong, independent person. If your DH is willing to take the journey himself he will benefit. But if he is not, well, you can't force him to. Ultimately you decide what you can and cannot live with.
It is really heartening to
It is really heartening to read that it worked for you and sometimes still does. I think the clue to your success lies in the words 'willing participants.'
The bottom line is I'm not sure that DH would love me enough- and I'm not prepared to give an ultimatum. I think we both know we have no where else to go.
I am quite prepared to go to counselling alone to sort it all out in my own head.
I know I can live with it, but the question is whether or not I choose to.
Hi Fairyo, I’ve been browsing
Hi Fairyo,
I’ve been browsing this forum for a friend, but I read this post, and looked at a few of your previous posts, and decide to create an account to respond to you.
When I read about your situation, my heart broke, as it completely reminds me of my ex-husband, and our failed marriage.
In previous posts, you mention that he now:
-avoids you by going to work early and coming home tired
-sleeps in a separate bedroom
- no longer works on any intimacy, not just sex, but kissing, hugging, etc.
-will not discuss his issues with you
-appears very passive in his relations with family
- no serious issues are resolved in your relationship, only silently avoided
As for yourself, it’s clear that you:
-still love him
-will not divorce, due to love and monetary concerns
-do not wish to start a conversation about these issues, due to your decision not to separate or.divorce
When I read this, all I can think is that your husband is Passive-Aggressive. In saying this, I mean more as a personality disorder, rather than an occasional action.
My marriage devolved into no sex/intimacy. He also refused counseling. After 5+ years of no physical contact with the man who was meant to be my partner, I left. (I might add that our situations maybe different, in that I was the breadwinner in my family, so leaving was not a burden money-wise.) all I can say is that I shouldered most of the adult responsibilities in our home, cleaning, yardwork, bills, etc., and was rewarded with a passively angry man, who destroyed our intimacy.
I highly suggest you read this book: Living with the passive-aggressive man: Coping with hidden aggression - from the bedroom to the boardroom by Scott Wetzler
In my estimation, if you do not both go to counseling, and address some of your issues, particularly your intimacy, you marriage will wither on the vine. But, you maybe ok living as room mates. If you are, that’s great, but it’s unlikely things will go back to what they were without you both trying.
Personally, I started counseling myself. I recognized that a was co-dependent, and had ended up as a mother figure in my own marriage. My husband refused counseling, and I realized I yearned for a true partnership, so I left. I might add that counseling resurrected my old self, complete with self-esteem, which made the decision and process of divorce much easier.
Ultimately, what you do is your decision, but if I were in your shoes, I would continue my counseling and pick up the aforementioned book for strategies to help you deal with your husband.
I wish the best for you in your path forward.
Thanks PrairieSky it really
Thanks PrairieSky it really does help to know that others have been where I am, and I read your post with interest. I really wish I could label DH as passive aggressive- I hadn't really thought of it that way- maybe I had just been thinking of him as passive/passive!
I'm up to my neck in relationship books just now but will do some reading up on this. I know enough about myself to know I'm not co-dependent, I'm just a grown up woman wanting a grown up relationship. I didn't think it was too much to ask- but DH is stuck somewhere knee deep in quick-sand and I know I'm not going to stand in that quick-sand and try to get him up. Maybe I can offer a very long stick, or maybe just say,' you got in there now get yourself out!'
I will return to the counselling on my own as I liked my counsellor and who knows what might happen meantime? Thank you for taking the trouble to respond and welcome to the site- you should post more helpful stuff like this!
Thank you.
urg you can't teach an old
urg you can't teach an old dog new trick IMHO.......
I'm not going to force SO, I went on my own and I asked for help dealing with situations, not to blow up and have a heart attack, that helped me allot and when SO started to see I'm not bothered by him any more, he can't push my buttons anymore, I truly give a shit about his daughter and his whole family and I am capable of living my own life, he started changing....
See I decided , I'm going to do the changing, and if he does not like it then tough.... oh after 2 months he's slowly been slipping back to his old ways again lol, previously I would be hurt and angry but past week-end I simply laughed at him and said... go and take your mantrum out on the person who pissed you off, then call me when you act like an adult again and I left..... he send me a couple off nasty text, accusing me of not loving him anymore blablabla wanting out of the relationship blablablabla, I simply ignored him. Then he changed his tactics, I made dinner you want to come over.. I replied no thank you already in bed it's too late.... The next day he was all snotty again, I ignored him... then he came by my place to take me for ice cream, as soon as the wheels where rolling he started again up with his shit, block further at the stop sign I simply got out of the car ans started walking back home.... eventually he came back and apologized for his behavior... then everything went smoothly till last night lol...
I figured it out... Princess is nailing his ass and balls to the wall, he can't say NO, cause he's a Disney Dad and I'm not interested lol... he told her last night to stop her crap and grow up, then he hung up on her and ignored all her calls...
Exactly this!!!! Acra, this
Exactly this!!!! Acra, this is a perfect example of changing yourself to stop the madness. You took yourself out of the dance that happens in any imbalanced relationship. His nasty texts are actually begging you to "dance" again as that feels safe and normal to him. It's what he knows. Giving in to his fits and demands would only perpetuate the dysfunction, as you found out and changed.
Fairyo, this is what happens to all of us who step out and dance our own dance....you are able to teach others to dance your way and no sore toes
Acrat I thought it was all
Acrat I thought it was all going too well for you, but so admire your stance with DH and your SD. These things are seldom really over, and I am feeling much stronger and determined every day goes by. I think you are getting your message through and who knows? One day I may hear DH say no to one of his entitled offspring, but I'm not holding my breath!
Fairyo - it's going very well
Fairyo - it's going very well on my side, simply because I decided not to allow SO to treat me like he use to, simply because him trying to push my buttons is not working anymore, simply because I value myself more then I value him.
Veritas- I've just found my
Veritas- I've just found my old dancing shoes and they still fit- here I come!!!
You always make me smile
You always make me smile
This will make you smile even
This will make you smile even more- DH came home in a grumpy mood. I didn't ask about his day or anything, just finished making dinner and not let him drag me down.
When we sat down to eat he told me he would be busy at the weekend as MSD needed a new front door and that her partner (who I always thought lived with MSD,) also needed a new front door on her house.
My response-' That's ok, because if you give me a lift to the station first I'm going down to the spend the weekend with my daughter and my grandkids.'
What a jerk- running around after those entitled kids when he could be relaxing on his weekend off, and now he's even running around after his daughter's girlfriend too. Nothing to do with me- I'll be having a great time. Didhe want some sympathy from me? Yes, I think he did. Too bad...
Oh what a perfect
Oh what a perfect response!!!!!!! And I bet you are right. Wait until he finds out that his moods, no matter which one he decides to bring home, have no affect on you...HA! And grumpy face??? Oh no, you won't bring me down, especially when I have an ENTIRE FUN FILLED WEEKEND PLANNED!!!!!!!!!!
He wanted sympathy, yes. That is the learned response. He knows how the tape plays and your lack of an anticipated response really threw him off, I bet. Keep throwin' him
The sad thing is DH really
The sad thing is DH really enjoys being with my family- in the past I might have said that he can go do the doors the weekend after, can't he? But the answer would always have been no- he really would deny himself having a relaxing time than saying no to his offspring (and his off-springs friends/partners etc- I could tell you some stories!) even further in the past I would have challenged him even more with-'Why do you always have to say how high when your kids say jump?' but that would have led on the road to nowhere...
Now he can have his pity party all on his own, and you are right I will have a great time with people who don't want to play games and just get on with enjoying life...