You're not overreacting. The relationship the two of them have is not a healthy father/daughter relationship. The way your husband treats you is disrespectful. He can't do away with the questionable pictures but doesn't want them framed? He knows they're inappropriate but can't let them go.

He has no right to tell you not to get counseling. Obviously, he's not going to be concerned with your feelings on it. Talk to someone who is. Does he say "my wife" when he talks to her about you? That seems kind of cold. Why not acknowledge you by your name? They both know they haven't come close to going over the edge? What's that supposed to mean? In a healthy father/daughter relationship there should be no "edge" to come close to. The fact that he recognizes an edge in their situation indicates ugly. The fact that he refers to her as a "surrogate wife" is disturbing, & for NO reason, should he be discussing his marital problems with her.

I wouldn't be surprised to discover that his sexual fantasies revolve around his child.

I would seriously look into counseling for yourself. You deserve a fulfilling relationship/marriage with someone who appreciates you & who respects you, & enjoys having YOU at his side.

Oh my God. I am so sorry. I am at a loss for words. What he wrote her for #6 was basically admitting something. They have a sick, sick relationship, and you are not over-reacting at all. What are you going to do? can you live like this?

I'm stunned...your situation has red flags flying all over the place. Your DH and SD appear to have a very inappropriate relationship - by no means is it a normal father/daughter relationship. It's extremely close to incest and even though he states "You and I both know we haven't come close to going over the edge." I have to wonder what he considers the edge?

I don't know how long you've been married or your family situation but you really need to talk to someone about this before it gets anymore out of control. Is your sd's BM in the picture? What about other family members? With things being the way you describe, I can't imagine other family members not becoming alarmed at their behaviour.

I'm so sorry for you having to deal with this; good luck and please don't wait to take action.

That is gross and disgusting. They both need counseling, but I'm not sure you'll ever get them to see that. That would drive me away! It's annoying enough watching my BF's oldest act like she thinks she's his wife and I called him on it. That stops or I go. Not an idle threat.

You and I both know we haven't come close to going over the edge.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
:jawdrop: Oh my!! He is a sick man.

:jawdrop: OMG Claresjobe- I have read things here on StepTalk that make me sad, angry, worried, etc... but I have never felt this horrible sickness in my stomach that I feel right now after reading this. Your DH and SD are something to be V.E.R.Y. concerned about. This is not normal. The whole situation of being mistaken for her boyfriend/you as the mom - that is just plain insulting and I thought maybe he just really likes to have people thing he looks young. BUT....as I read... something is very wrong. Very, very wrong. I CANNOT imagine if my DAD sent me an email saying something about our relationship never being close to going over the edge - BLAH - I would wonder what the F he was talking about. CREEPY.

I am so so so very sorry. What a horrible discovery. Your gut is right. Keep coming back to this sight for support - I think you are going to need it.

Wow..I'm sorry for what you are going through...

but the statement "You and I both know we haven't come close to going over the edge" says it all, there is something terrily wrong here. I'm also very concerned about the fact that you state he became Violent and Cursed at you..this is a very dangerous situation for you and if it were me I would get out right away..

This is not normal and not right. You so deserve someone who will love you with his whole heart and be proud to call you his wife, his lover and his his best friend.

I wish you all the best..keep you chin up.. Z

I do agree with goforit. I would not, under any circumstances put up with that. I said about the same thing she did to BF once, and ok, it was a bit extreme and I was out of line, but it's nowhere close to what you are dealing with. That restaurant scene would have had me out the door.

UUUHHHHHHHH GROSS!!! Being close and still giving hugs and kisses is one thing; but being accused of being a coule in another.

I know in my life it feels like I am the daughter and SD13 is the wife (staying up later than me to sit on the couch with him - just 1 example) But to actaully think it's funny when people think you are. Unhealthy - completely. Not saying to play baby games; but is there anything else you can do to get the ball in your court and make him feel this way.

I know of one other case where the older child became the surrogate 'partner'. This was taken further and screwed up his life.

Your husband says he didn't 'take it further' which means the intention was there. People don't say "Well I walked into the bank with a gun and mask and didn't take it further." They say "I walked into the bank and decided this is wrong." The intention was there. She is playing along with the surrogate wife role because it gives her power and a place in his life. If her boyfriend is still around I bet you she never marries him because to do so will be betraying her father and he would not like some other man coming first before him.

What do you want to do? How much do you have invested in this lifestyle? Can you financially afford to divorce him and walk away?
Do you want to live with it and take a break when his daughter is around? Do you want an open marriage where you can take other romantic interest?

Personally I would cut my losses and leave him. Divorce him because he is not the marrying kind. Seriously, he would marry his daughter if he could. But societally this is taboo. He probably thinks he was an ancient Egyptian in a past life so he COULD have married his daughter.

He doesn't put you before his daughter and won't even attend counselling with you in case he has to face his reality. In his mind he hasn't done anything wrong. But the idea ia there and that line may one day be crossed.

His daughter plays along with the game and that is sick as well. She cannot disentangle herself from her father and have a REAL relationship.

If you choose to leave (and I suspect you will) you didn't fail. He failed to treat you respectfully as a wife.

Like the other posters have said, you are DEFF NOT over reacting and there is DEFF something way way way wrong here. This is not an acceptable father/daughter relationship. Everything that you posted on there is just so so wrong. Please do something about this and don't second guess yourself, your gut instinct is right!!!!

I am and have always been EXTREMELY close to my father.

Never once has he said anything even REMOTELY close to any of the weird stuff your H says to his daughter!

He has also never had his hands anywhere CLOSE to my chest.

There was only ONE time in my entire life that I can remember my dad saying something to me that made me uncomfortable, that was after I had my DS. I was sitting on the floor and DS was between my legs trying to crawl towards me and my father said, "He's trying to get back in!"

That was NOTHING - NOTHING - compared to the inappropriateness of EVERYTHING in your H's relationship with his oldest.

No WONDER she hates her mom - BM was her first rival!

Oh Lord run for the hills! I was very close to my dad because I was an only child. My dad may say things like telling me that I was beautiful or I had pretty legs, things like that. But he NEVER EVER touched me! He would hug me and his kisses were on the CHEEK! He was paranoid about being cautious and respectful of me as a woman.

My dh used to piss me off doing "titty twisters" and "purple nurples" to my sd! And that at least was a JOKING kind of thing which some people would STILL have a HUGE problem with (hell I did which was why I talked to him and told him to STOP!)... I could NEVER live in the situation you are living in!

All of this... the rude restaurant remarks, the email... it's not natural. It's almost like Freud and all of his theories were based around this father/daughter relationship.

eeewww... yuck... that is just nasty. :sick:

Hun, I'm not sure if you have any close friends or relatives that you've spoken to, but I'm sure they'd all tell you the exact same things that everyone here has said. This is wrong, so SO wrong and you do NOT have to put up with this. I bet even the younger daughter would cringe--and might even have more to add.

This is highly disturbing. You are absolutely not overreacting or imagining this. I'm so sorry that you've come to this realization. Now that you have, good lord woman get yourself out of that marriage.

Thank you for sharing this.

It has made me contemplate something in the relationship between SS11 and BM but I will save that for another post.

If it looks like shit, smells like shit, feels like shit and tastes like shit it must be shit.

You are not over reacting. Though I can certainly understand a parent/child being mistaken for a couple, it used to happen with my mom and I when I was in my late teens through mid 20's. She was 19 when I was born and has always looked about 10yrs younger than her age for as long as I can remember. We occasionally still hold hands when we are taking a walk and I used to put my arm around her shoulders and she would put her arm around my waist occasionally when I was younger. She is 5'2" and I am 6'1" so that just magnified the potential perception that we may have been a couple.

We would get some nasty looks from the blue hairs back in the day. But, never did she or I allow anyone to retain the perception that we were a couple. I would very pointedly refer to her frequently and slightly too loudly as Mom! when we were out in public together when it was just the two of us. I did not want the hotties in the restaurants or stores to misinterpret the situation and not give me their numbers when I asked. }:)

My wife was 16 when she had my Skid. She is now 35 and he is 18. They will occasionally get told that they are a cute couple when they are out in public and it has even happened when I have been with them. We all laugh but my wife immediately informs the person that Skid is her son.

What is happening with your DH and your SD has every indication of being entirely inappropriate.

IMHO of course.

Best regards,

Using mom as

If you need evidence put a keylogger on your pc and read his emails to his daughter.

Totally inappropriate behaviour between a parent and child. I am wondering if the "I love my boyfriend" T- shirt wasn't more intended to keep dad's overly amorous attentions off her? He has crossed almost every parent child boundary that exists. Where it gets really dicey is the fact of him hiding certain aspects of their relationship which proves that he knows what he is doing is wrong, but he has no intention of changing his behaviour because it gratifies him, and be damned what it does to EVERYONE else in the family.

Maybe once he learns from outside sources that this “emotional incest” he has with his daughter is child abuse he may change his mind.

Here is the link: http://hugoschwyzer.net/2009/10/22/princesses-princes-daughters-and-dads...

In the meantime all the hurt, anger, resentment, humiliation and disrespect you feel is very real. He is totally humiliating and disrespecting you continuously. You are NOT delusional, he is.

What you decide to do is based on knowing that first, his behaviour is very wrong and second, are you willing to continue being married to this man if he seeks professional help and changes his behaviour? Is it even possible? Problem is he has already gone over “the line” in my view.

Keep up your pursuit of the truth. It’s a long row to hoe.

I hate to say it but sometimes what you see on the surface in these situations is just the tip of the iceberg. I have personal experience. Does he comment on her appearance? Says she looks sexy? Do you get the feeling he thinks she is trying to look nice for him?

If there has been abuse, these are the sorts of signs (all the ones you have in front of you as well).

You see where there is sexual abuse, you don't see it happening. There are no photos of the actual abuse - just worrying signs. If it happened in the past but he "can't" now because he is married - that could be the "edge" he is talking about.

This is hard. It might be the hardest thing you have ever faced. We go into denial. There is a saying - when someone sneezes, you don't think it is cancer. We make up all these reasons in our head why it isn't abuse. But then one day we realise that if we open our minds to the idea that maybe abuse has happened, we see that all the signs fit that one explanation and we can stop thinking up a million different excuses.

I am so sorry. I am also very sorry for his daughter who will have been seriously damaged if there has been abuse. It may have started at an age when she was powerless and it has become a part of her life that she has never wanted to question (to do so would lead her to fall apart). Also, he is keeping her close and making her feel special so he can keep control and power. Abuse is about power not sex. If he was to put you first and show her he was with you now, he is afraid she will get angry and tell people what he has done to her.

I may be wrong and I hope I am but I urge you to seek some advice from a professional who knows about sexual abuse and incest and the effects and signs. Go and see someone. Do exactly what they suggest you do. Make sure you are well supported by your own family and friends through all this. Again - I hate to say it butit can be dangerous when a child abuser is uncovered. You are in my prayers.

Claresjobe - the picture that you posted is very weird - I have never taken a picture with my father where my boobs are touching his chest - never - all the things that you write are very disturbing.

When I was in High School there was a teacher there who seemed very inappropriate with his daughter another case of his wife left him and it was him, his daughter and a son - I remember when she graduated he handed her her diploma and kissed her on the lips for about a minute - you could see her trying to pull away and him just holding her and not letting her move - everyone was in shock -

About 17 years after that I saw her at a place that I was working and I just had to ask her about that kiss - she said that she no longer had a relationship with her father - she said that there had been years of abuse and that on that graduation day she about died that he did that in front of everyone. After that kiss I think he worked for the school for another year and then got caught having a relationship with a senior in the school (his daughter went to college about 2000 miles away) he got fired from the school.

This blog just reminded me of that poor girl - she had no mother to protect her and when I saw her all those years later you could see the damage on her face. I am not sure how long you have been married but I would get out - there is something wrong with your DH and his SD that goes beyond the normal father/daughter loving relationship where the father protects and loves and respects his daughter - like a daughter not as a girlfriend. Also if my DH ever asked a waitress if I looked like his mother he would be wearing the meal in his lap. Sorry you are going through this - I am praying for you!!

Also not letting you read the second email was very telling and he sounds really disgusting and gross and I quite frankly would have trouble letting him even get close to me anymore. His daughter is old enough that if she wants it to stop she can make that happen - also that the boyfriend took the picture of you in front and dh and sd together makes me think he feels something is going on as well - get away from this situation if you can!!

ok, where do I see this picture? Im lost.

Just EW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My SIL and FIL have been like this since my MIL passed away several years ago. It's disgusting. She literally does everything for him that a wife would. She buys his groceries and clothes, they are affectionate with each other in ways that are inappropriate, and she makes all his plans for him. She is the only family member with a key to his house, and every time I drive by (he lives on a very busy thoroughfare) her car is in the driveway, even though she has her own home about 5 miles away. People are always asking me about it. It's embarassing to the max.

You're not overreacting. I think it's some indication of a mental illness...a disconnection with reality, like what a sex offender has...thinking something is normal and natural because it's how they feel, when really it's very sick.

I really want to print out the above article and send it anonymously to my FIL and SIL. Soooo tempting.

Forget the fact that he is her father...if he were acting this way with another woman, would you tolerate it?? I love my dad....we are VERY close, but I would be mortified if we were ever mistaken for a couple...as would he!! There is no way either one of us would let the comment slide without correcting it. Just the very fact that people THINK they are a couple send off a HUGE red flag! They shouldn't LOOK like a couple...or act like a couple!

Then there is a letter. It smacks of, "My wife suspects us...we need to cool it." He doesn't respect you. I'm so sorry.

Well. To slightly relate here. I "once" had a half brother say to me, " If you were not my sister, I would do you." :jawdrop: (note: "once")

This is one of the sickest posts I have read here yet. I would not stay in a twisted relationship like this.

You are not over-reacting. It sounds like now is the time to say goodbye-you've mentioned you have children who are preteens? If he is as creepy as I sounds, it can't be healthy for him to be around them.

Please excuse the blunt ness of my previous post. Even if it was only his ego that made him act like this to his daughter (which admittedly is doubtful), he is still not a good example of a loving husband for your kids to be witnessing.

Run. Run for your life.

Not just from his inappropriate relationship with his daughter, but because you KNOW that he is only using you.

You deserve better. So do your children.

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this very unpleasant issue. I wish you the best. Since the man has no money of his own and only debts, another reason to kick him to the curb.

I noticed that the original post is from 2010. Claresjobe, are you still around? How are things going? I wish you well:)

i could have written the op myself.

sd would sit on the sofa with her legs over her fathers lap while he massaged her feet. she would also sit behind him as he sat in a chair and massaged his shoulders. she would cut his hair (she is a beautician) and then razor his back and neck of hair.

sh would have her father take her for rides in the convertible then out to lunch where she must have looked like a young mistress.

certain things are ok with a child or teenager but not for a grown woman.

i told dh this was inappropriate and dh got violently angry and defensive saying it was natural and normal and he and his daughter are just showing love.

even after the girl married and a young mother sd still calls her father at least twice a day and calls him her bff. i feel sorry for the young womans husband. he screamed that i was jealous. dh also gives lavish electronic and designer gifts to the skids while he buys me cheap gifts that are almost life after thoughts.

these situations are sick beyond words. this daughter also has major sibling problems with the other skids and had called herself her fathers first princess.

You are questioning and questioning because you don't want to believe your own eyes. To do so would mean your marriage (and vows by him) mean nothing. It's painful. Please get away from him. He does not respect you.
' I find there is an erosion in my emotions that continues to gain momentum.' - LISTEN TO YOUR GUT.
Go on to find a better life xx

Do you really want your teenage daughter around this person?

Claresjobe: I am sorry your are going thru this; I also went thru this for a period of time, when SD and SIL moved to the same town. SIL gained employment and they moved to where we lived. Then DH and SD's romance began; they have always been close, but I always viewed it as father/daughter closeness and nothing more. We now live 150 miles from SD.

Of course I was trying to keep a "Brady Bunch" family for DH's sake and was putting up with the embarrassment. It just kept getting worse and worse and SIL didn't like it either. One day I open my email to check it; there was a two page hate email addressed to me from SD, telling me to divorce her father, she hated me, I was mean to her Dad, blah...blah...blah. Ok, I had enough now!

I printed this email out and took it into the next room and handed it to DH. Quote: "You read this, take this copy to SD and put a lid on this shit, right now". He took it to her and they discussed it, but I didn't ask. It didn't seem to curb it; so one day I received a telephone call from one of "my" family members, wanting to know what was going on? I'm like what? DH and SD had been gossiping behind my back to "my" family. I hung up the phone, calmly went out in the car, drove to the Police station, wrote up a request for a protective order, with a Victim Advocate, drove back home, called for an Officer to come to our address with a keep the peace, remove DH and send him up the street to SD's home to live. They escorted DH to SD's with nothing but 1/2 bottle of whiskey, which he requested; this is how bad he was becoming. Later that evening, I received a call from the Court, the Judge had signed the Order and it was to be served on DH the next morning; which prevented DH, SD, or any third party to DH to contact me or come on the property. DH could not have his toothbrush without my permission, thus he had to be escorted by an Law Enforcement Officer. I also had the locks rekeyed the next morning and applied for a property retention order, which the Judge signed.

Long story short, I gave SD and DH what they wanted, time together, for each other, forever if they so chose. :sick:

Because I put my foot down, in my case; our marriage is much different. It is not good, but SD no longer is involved with my DH in my presence; DH no longer sees her often. I never accused them of "over the line" behavior, I just gave them each other. SD didn't want another man in her house to wait on, cook for, or do laundry for. DH didn't like living out of his comfortable home. For me, it solved the problem.

They can see each other any time they wish and always have been able to do so. SD never calls, never comes and takes DH to lunch; when she visits, it's less than an hour. They were only gaslighting me for years and I stopped it. They know "I don't care about their relationship"; I don't want to know. It is like forbidden fruit in my case. They don't want it now, because they can have it, who cares. I don't need the BS in my life and I REALLY DON'T CARE.