Ex is telling my kids not to tell me certain things......
My ex-wife yesterday morning emailed me to see if she could pick up the kids (daughter 10 and son 
for an hour (out of my parenting time)...I said that was fine. She came and got them and then dropped them back off an hour later as planned. So out of curiosity I asked my kids what did they do? They wouldn't tell me...my daughter who (guards her mom because mom treats her like an adult and treats my daughter like a best friend) said they went to mom's house for a meeting. I said a meeting, what do you mean? My daughter said never mind mom told us not to say anything.
I should mention that this happens ALOT...where mom tells the kids not to say anything to dad about certain things.
I then sat down with my son and said so what did you do at mom's house? He said we played...I said well your sister said you had a meeting...what was that about? He said his sister would be mad becasue she said not to say anything to you about it because mom would be mad.
So I went back into my daughters room and I said is that lady still living with you? (my ex has a lady and her daughter living with them temporarily). She said yes, but she is moving...I said oh...so is mom's boyfriend moving in then? My daughter then said well that is sorta what the meeting was about....Mom is getting married. Then she said we aren't suppose to say anything to you mom said.
So eventaully I got the info.........THE POINT OF THIS WAS NOT TO SIT AN INTERROGATE my children. I don't care that is re-marrying (feel sorry for the poor bastard but you live and learn).
I then told my daughter that lieing to me and not talking to me is not appropriate. I told her I don't tell you to not tell mom about things that happen or go on here do I? She said no.....then why do cover for mom and lie for her? She is setting a bad example for you and your brother...it's not right and I don't want you to lie to me or mom.
I am not sure if what I did was "professionally" appropriate...but I am tired of not being told the truth. I don't give two cents what mom does but I don't want to be lied to. It was a simple question...what did you do at your moms house for an hour that interferred with our time together?
YOUR THOUGHTS?????
What should I do? Ask mom to stop telling the kids to lie to me or hide things?????
This happens all the time
This happens all the time with SS16 - he can not divulge anything that happens at his mothers house. So to talk to him on the phone is like pulling teeth. I just try to speak with him once a month now. He is now getting ready to go to visit colleges and will not tell my DH any of the plans he is making or what school he is trying to get into. My DH told him last time he visited (we see him 3 times a year due to distance) that he could help pay and gave him a figure for school and told him that whatever he and his mom decided was fine but this was all we could contribute. He also told him he would like to be included in the discussions but SS told him that he and his mom have it covered. Funny because she keeps calling DH to give her more money for things.
When SS comes out here to visit I hear him on the phone with his mother constantly telling her all of the new things we got since last time or what is going on - it is so annoying. I think it sets a very bad example for the kids when they have to keep secrets and protect their parents - it takes away their childhood. Who cares if BM is getting married you don't - I would not be surprised if our BM was married and will not let SS tell us - quite frankly we don't give a rats ass - I think talking to your Ex may stirs things up - it seems as if the kids are young enough that you can ask them things and get it out of them in a round about way - but you may want to mention that your daughter feels bad keeping secrets and even worse when she lets them slip and that your Ex may not want to put that burden on her - sounds like that would not bother your Ex but it is worth a try.
Ugh, I can just see this
Ugh, I can just see this happening with my SS16. Im sure BM will be enrolling him in the most expensive college with no input from us and then dragging us to court to somehow pay for 1/2 of a tuition that we have no idea how to pay. Ahhhh.....memories....
Yes this is really pissing me
Yes this is really pissing me off - she basically told DH that he would have to pay for 1/2 of college and he said NO - look at the divorce agreement - he made sure 8 years ago that when they were divorcing that there was nothing about paying for college in the decree. I also have recently checked it to make sure. We don't live in a state that enforces that so we should be safe. We told SS16 what we could pay and that if he wanted huge student loans it is on him. We also told him that we could pay that amount barring any unforeseen job loss - if we can't pay what we agreed on so be it. We want to help him but if we can't we will not put ourselves it debt. No one help DH or I with college and we did just fine. We also did not pick $50,000.00 a year colleges either. This from a kid who refuses to get a job. DH had a big talk with SS this summer and laid it all out on the line so now SS has a very clear understanding of what we can afford. He must not have told him mother yet because we have not gotten the screaming phone call.
Interestingly enough, DH and
Interestingly enough, DH and I don't ask what the kids what goes on in BM's house and we have asked her to apply the same logic. That way, they don't have to feel as thoughthey are betraying anyone by responding to a lot of interrogation.
I would suggest asking BM these questions so the kids aren't put in the middle...
I would talk to your ex wife
I would talk to your ex wife about this as it puts the kids in a difficult position being her "secret keeper" and thus in the middle of adult things. It was inappropriate of her to share her marriage plans with the kids before telling you and then asking them to not say anything. Our BM used to do this with SS and it made him feel weird about what he could or couldn't share with us. In our case, she got married a few days after getting SS for visitation and sprung it on him the day of the ceremony and told DH the day after. They were engaged for a month and were supposed to get married within a year. Claimed it was a last minute, spontaneous wish of her now husband. Anyway, my point is it's not right to put kids in the middle like this. They already have loyalty issues with their parents so why make them feel like they have to protect one more than the other or align themselves with one parent more than the other.
"It was inappropriate of her
"It was inappropriate of her to share her marriage plans with the kids before telling you and then asking them to not say anything"
Why on earth would she owe it to her ex to tell him first before the kids??? It's not his business or concern. If indeed my bf and I would choose to get married, our kids would know first. Not really our ex's bsns whatsoever!
I agree, it's her business to
I agree, it's her business to tell the kids first. she doesn't have to tell the ex anything.
i don't agree with her telling the kids not to say anything though. that's just stupid and immature.it puts the kids in an awkward position and teaches them it's ok to lie and be secretive.
Um, that's not teaching them
Um, that's not teaching them to LIE. Teaching them to lie would be having them tell him something else entirely. She just asked them not to volunteer the information which is not lying at all!
Omitting parts of the truth
Omitting parts of the truth is just a shade of lying. But maybe you're right in that she didn't outright ask them to lie.But asking them not to say anything is asking them to be secretive and that's wrong. they should be able to share what they want with their dad. what if they were excited about her upcoming wedding and wanted to share it with their dad? she put them in a position of not being able to share it with him even if they wanted to.it's not fair to them.
What you said is also true.
What you said is also true. But who knows what really was said to the kids. BM could've just as easily said "don't say anything to your dad yet because I need to talk to him about it and I haven't had a chance" which is not like "don't you dare tell your dad about our secrets". Either way, they could hear BM saying "don't tell your dad". :?
I still say dad drilling them the way he did is wrong wrong wrong.
oh absolutely dad is wrong
oh absolutely dad is wrong for drilling them.i totally agree with that and i cringe anytime i hear about parents doing that to their kids. i know it's tempting to know what goes on in the other house bc it involves your kids but I don't agree with interrogation.
I agree with this. We
I agree with this. We experienced a lot of secrecy with SS more than SD. BM would tell them not to tell DH certain things about who she was dating or what she'd purchased, where they went, what they did...etc. DH & I like our privacy & can respect that others do as well. We were never ones to pry or dig for information. However, BM making the point to tell the kids not to tell DH about things, we felt, put them in a difficult postition. What if there were things they felt they wanted or needed to discuss with their dad? In my opinion, kids should be able to talk to their parents (both of them) about anything. BM tells them not to tell DH she's dating a policeman. So, what if the guy is touching kids innapropriately or hurting them or BM? They've had to make this promise to BM, so they can't confide in DH because BM said they can't talk to him about this man???
I couldn't tell you how many times SD would start to say something (she's younger than SS) & SS would immediately jump in & tell her to shut up, because it was something BM didn't want DH to know. DH & I made a rule in our home that we don't tell each other to shut up. No one's words are any more/less important than anyone else's, & we are all allowed to approach anyone in our family with issues we want to discuss. It's important for kids to have adults they can confide in & feel comfortable talking to about anything. In my opinion, BM is putting up walls she has no business putting up with her kids.
Agreed
Agreed
Ok-some honesty here. I
Ok-some honesty here. I understand your frustration, but honestly that was an overstep-and you kind of forced the kids to lie by demanding they tell you. They dont' HAVE to tell you, you really shouldn't be trying to pull info from them and should have respected their wishes from the getgo. I think it is very wrong to put kids in that position or to try to gather info in a sneaky way or demand it. Please expect that there will be some loyalty to their mother as well. I get it that you don't care what she does (remarriage) but it is HER right to ask the kids not to say anything. Perhaps she wants to wait to tell you herself-or announce it formally, and of course the kids will be included in this decision but it's frankly none of your bsns. So even if you disagree w/her not telling you-that's her right, and you are her EX and it is not your place to drill the kids about it. I find it very offensive honestly. It's a very destructive thing to do to kids. You can't control your ex and what she does-only yourself-so on that note I have this as my opinion.
Here I'm gonna highlight the issues:
"They wouldn't tell me...my daughter who (guards her mom because mom treats her like an adult and treats my daughter like a best friend) said they went to mom's house for a meeting. I said a meeting, what do you mean? My daughter said never mind mom told us not to say anything. “
Bam-right there you should have respected your daughter enough to know she gave her word to her mom and let it go. I think it is extremely disrespectful to keep trying to demand something that is not your place to know or hear from them.
“I should mention that this happens ALOT...where mom tells the kids not to say anything to dad about certain things. “
And really that is her right-and from the sounds of it and the fact that you pump the kids for info I understand her position a bit.
“I then sat down with my son and said so what did you do at mom's house? He said we played...I said well your sister said you had a meeting...what was that about? He said his sister would be mad becasue she said not to say anything to you about it because mom would be mad. “
Again-very very manipulative and wrong. You forced them to lie and be disloyal to eachother.
“So I went back into my daughters room and I said is that lady still living with you? (my ex has a lady and her daughter living with them temporarily). She said yes, but she is moving...I said oh...so is mom's boyfriend moving in then? My daughter then said well that is sorta what the meeting was about....Mom is getting married. Then she said we aren't suppose to say anything to you mom said. “
So-you go back and forth trying to pump info and confront them-making them uncomfortable because you have to know what’s going on. Not your place. That is your ex's bsns, not yours. You were being sneaky and manipulating info from them. And also causing them anguish by feeling they had to lie because you were demanding to know.
“So eventaully I got the info.........THE POINT OF THIS WAS NOT TO SIT AN INTERROGATE my children. I don't care that is re-marrying (feel sorry for the poor bastard but you live and learn). “
Really? Actually that seems to have been exactly your point. If you don’t care then why pummel the kids for info?? Do you know that experts recommend to NEVER do this to kids? It’s very damaging. Unless you suspect abuse or something big, let it go.
“I then told my daughter that lieing to me and not talking to me is not appropriate. I told her I don't tell you to not tell mom about things that happen or go on here do I? She said no.....then why do cover for mom and lie for her? She is setting a bad example for you and your brother...it's not right and I don't want you to lie to me or mom. “
So, in addition to you being completely in the wrong-you now want to guilt your daughter for not telling you what wasn’t your bsns in the first place….you were wrong to demand she tell you, or call her out on lying when she WAS trying to keep her word to her mom-see how you’re being hypocritical? Ok-be disloyal to mom but not to me? AND attacking and demeaning the mom in the process-she has a right to not have to tell you about her life. It’s not about covering/lieing…it’s her right to her privacy in her love life. She doesn’t have to tell you a thing.
"I am not sure if what I did was "professionally" appropriate...but I am tired of not being told the truth. I don't give two cents what mom does but I don't want to be lied to. It was a simple question...what did you do at your moms house for an hour that interferred with our time together? "
You’re right-completely UNPROFESSIONAL. Tired of it…what makes you think you have a right to know about it? You put the kids in a position to lie to you. A simple question? Really then why not let it go? Perhaps she interfered in your time because it just happened and she wanted to tell the kids first and quickly-she does have that right. Perhaps someone else found out and she was afraid the kids would find out from someone else so she was proactive…who knows. You didn’t have to say yes to the hour, but you did-that doesn’t give you the right to put your kids in the position you did.
"YOUR THOUGHTS?????
What should I do? Ask mom to stop telling the kids to lie to me or hide things?????"
Nothing, you shouldn’t do a thing-you should stop demanding your kids tell you their bsns w/their mom.
Yep, all of the above, I
Yep, all of the above, I completely agree. I do not drill my SDs about what goes on at BM's house and I don't drill my DS about what goes on at his dad's. If they choose to tell me, that's fine, but if not, well fine because I hope they aren't being drilled about what happens at MY house either.
I agree too. You're going to
I agree too. You're going to push your children away from you with this controlling behavior.
You have to be able to let go and let them come to you. Interrogation is just that - inTERROgation. Notice it's quite close to having the word 'terror' in it. They will be afraid of coming to you with anything if they know they're going to be treated like this.
I agree with this, in that
I agree with this, in that parents shouldn't insist on knowing every detail about what goes on in the other household. I do feel, however, that it's wrong for BM to put the kids in a position where they have to withold information from one of their parents.
But he's the one on this
But he's the one on this site-not the BM-so since we can only change/control ourselves it makes sense to address the OP behavior doesn't it?
It may or may not be wrong-there may be a reason she doens't want her ex knowing her bsns-we really dont' know. I know I don't want my ex knowing my bsns-and my bf doesn't want his ex knowing his bsns. We have never said-don't say anything to mom/dad..but somehow they are smart enough to not go running with stories. Perhaps because we respect them and don't drill them for stories at their OParents house so they automatically give us that respect.
That said-people are entitled to privacy and not sharing-akward a bit to put your kids in the position-but even worse is to try to drill it out of them IMO when it's not your place to know in the first place. And two wrongs dont' make a right kind of thing, kwim?
Yes, the OP cannot control
Yes, the OP cannot control what BM does/says. He can, however, address HER with his questions & allow HER to be the one to tell him it's none of his business. That can be his effort. If she chooses not to share, he should not continue to question the kids for information that really is none of his business.
I think regardless of the outcome in this particular situation, the OP needs to address the whole secrecy issue with BM.
I dont necessarily think he
I dont necessarily think he did anything wrong. This is another symptom of a divorced family. In my family, if my kids went ANYWHERE and would not tell me what they did I would be P.O'd. Those are my kids I have a right to know what they are doing. When your child REFUSES to tell you what they were doing that is just wrong. This problem originated with bm-she should not tell her kids, dont tell your dad. That's the problem. Now, dh doesnt grill ss about much of anything and I certainly dont either. But if dh asked him a direct question such as why did mom need to pick you up early-then he should directly answer it. However, I also think he should have asked the bm when she asked for them on his time what was going on if he wanted to know.
I think the questions
I think the questions should've been aimed at BM BEFORE he allowed her to take them on his time. Seems like it would've been a natural reaction when she asks can she pick them up for an hour on his time & then bring them back to say, "What's going on that you need to make a special trip to pick them up & bring them back on my time?". He didn't do this. He waited until it was done & he waited for the opportunity to question his kids. My guess is because he felt he'd get more of an answer from them. It was wrong for BM to ask the kids to keep a secret from their dad. It was also wrong for him to direct his questions toward the kids. They are his kids & he has a right to know what they're doing on his time. Had she told them her news on her time, he wouldn't have known he was missing anything...& it still wouldn't be any of his business. I'd hate to think DH & I were obligated to give BM a rundown of our schedule of activities & shows we watched & what we had for dinner & what times the kids last pooped & peed because it's her right to know, & I would hate to think that she would have the nerve to drill the kids for the information.
NO I DISAGREE He's their
NO I DISAGREE
He's their father and has a right to know what living situation his kids are in, just as the BM has a right to know to. COMMUNICATE!!! Sure, he shouldn't push the conversation if the kids are uncomfortable but if he feels like there is something he should know, he has a right to find out.
I once asked the simple question after finding out the BM moved back in the boyfriend (who the BM stated was mean and lost his temper alot) "How do you feel about that" He says "I've been told not to talk about it" Obviousbly this kid is in a home where some things are not let's just say questionable behavior and the kids are in a home that could potentionally hurt the child emtionally and phsically.
SO TELL ME. IF YOU SUSPECTED SOMETHING WAS WRONG OR AMISS IN THE OTHER HOUSEHOLD AND THE CHILDREN ARE TOLD NOT TO SAY ANYTHING ARE YOU GOING TO JUST DROP IT???
THE BM IS WRONG HERE NOT HIM....
I agree with the father
I agree with the father having the right to know the living situation. I will probably get flamed here but when one of the parents get married I think the other should know. Especially if that person had custody. My DH let his Ex know before he told his son. She was giving up custody of her son 3 months after we got married and he wanted her to know that I would be in the picture. I know a lot people feel that they have to keep the marriage a secret because of how the other person will react but that person has a right to know who will be in there children's life.
I would not put the kids in
I would not put the kids in the middle...i.e mom is saying "Don't tell Dad" and Dad is saying "Tell me" means the kids are damned if they do damned if they don't and that's not really fair to put children in that position.
My opinion would be that if you were concerned enough about what they were doing with their BM that you should have addressed it with BM. Maybe BM wanted to be the one to tell you that she was getting married, rather than it coming from the kids and was planning to do it in her own time?
I think if you needed to know
I think if you needed to know what was happening in that hour, you should've approached BM with it rather than waiting for the kids to come back to question them.
We just had this same issue
We just had this same issue as well. The BM got married and is 4 months pregnant and she doesn't want my Skids telling us.
I am not sure why she wouldn't want us to know because we are THRILLED!!!
Also, she posted it (along with the baby's due date) on Facebook, which she doesn't have marked as private so - hello??
I apreciate all the
I apreciate all the comments/suggestions. While I disagree with those that believe this is not lying...I believe it is and my ex-wife is setting a terrible example for my kids as they grow older....they are learning that it is OK to not tell the truth and lying.
What I learned from this and all of you is:
I know that I made a mistake by asking my children to let me know what they did for this hour with my ex-wife and I won't do that again.
I should have asked what this was for in the first place - but as one person pointed out she either would have told it's none of my business or said it's a family meeting I imagine. Which I have no problem with and more than likely would have still agreed to letting the kids go (because I do ask for favors from her on schedule adjustments).
I believe I do need to let my ex-wife know that this is not appropriate to be doing to our kids. How would you phrase this statement to a person? (keep in mind she does not think rationally, she acts like a teenager most of the time and she's 40 years old!).
My thought would be to say:
Dear Ex-Wife
The kids are having a difficult time with not being able to share things that happen in their daily lives that they do want to express. They are being told to not share certain things and are afraid of recourse from you. It would be great to refrain from telling our kids things that you don't want repeated or shared. I do not demand or threaten the kids to keep secrets or lie to you and I would appreciate it if you would do the same. Thanks
Your Thoughts???
I don't think you did
I don't think you did anything wrong - if your Ex had been mature and adult in her behavior you would not need to ask the children. People need to grow up. You have every right to know if she is getting married and to who - this person will be around your children and it is your right as a father to know who they are. Our BM wants us to know nothing but then sends her kid out to spy - it is annoying especially because we don't care what is going on in her life as long as SS is okay. Apparently from phone calls I have heard SS having with her she is very interested in what is happening here.
And when you tell your children not to say anything and if asked they need to omit something or outright lie to avoid getting in trouble by the parent that asked them not to say anything it does set a bad example for them. Keep being the good parent that your are.
ROCK ON TIGER900 you've done
ROCK ON TIGER900 you've done nothing wrong and you came to this site to find a better way
I really don't care what
I really don't care what happens at the other house, and if there anything I don't want the other house to know, I would talk to my husband in secret.cause I know, kidds' mouths leak, they can not keep secret, and I don't want them learning to lie. even if the other house knows some of our secrets, as long as they don't use it to hurt us, I am fine with it.(Cause it's impossible to keep everything secret, you can not, then, let it go).