Taking our daughter on a cruise without my consent?
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My daughter's father just emailed me that he is going to take our 3 year old daughter on a cruise in August and wants me to sign the paperwork to get her a passport. We currently have 50/50 custody but for the first year of her life he was on supervised visitation. I am not comfortable with him taking her out of the country at this point...can I stop him from taking her on this cruise? We were never married...can he still take her even if I say no? He also said she doesn't have to have a passport for this cruise but he wants to get her one anyway...any advise or similar situations?
Oh wow. Why was he
Oh wow. Why was he supervised (if you don't mind me asking)?
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
Not to sound like the
Not to sound like the paranoid person on here, but if the cruise does not require a passport, but he wants to get her one anyway...couldn't that be a red flag that he's planning on taking her out of the country more often (with or without permission, either way)??? That would be my first question. If she doesn't need a passport, why get one NOW?
no offense, but every cruise
no offense, but every cruise I have looked into requires a Passport, because they all seem to leave the country and enter a new country at some point. What cruise is this? We wanted to take the skids on one, but know that we would never be granted passports.
In the United States if the
In the United States if the cruise is "closed looped" they do not require a passport. I went on 3 cruises...2 without passports using my birth certificate and driver's license. The last one I got a passport card. The passport card was cheaper than a passport book. One cruise left Miami and returned to Miami. The other were Orlando to Orlando and Galveston to Galveston, TX
The cruise will recommend you get a passport book. Reason being you can not fly back into the US without a passport book. It's an extra precaution in case you get hurt while abroad or get left behind by the cruise ship.
If you are going on a cruise that leaves Orlando and returns to a different destination like Italy...then yes a passport book is required.
Not to mention, why would
Not to mention, why would anyone WANT to take a 3 year old on a cruise? I'm thinking that would be NOT fun at all!
Exactly!!! I sure would not
Exactly!!! I sure would not want to take my 2.5 year old!!!
Sincerely,
G
"I will die on my feet before I live on my knees"
Oh.. really?? Disney
Oh.. really?? Disney Cruises are AWESOME, and totally geared toward children.. I would take a toddler on one of them in a heartbeat. now.. if your talking Carnival.. yeah, I would pass!!
Ok, but since i have only
Ok, but since i have only been in carnivals, I assumed it was something along those lines.
She didn't specify what type of cruise it was...
Sincerely,
G
"I will die on my feet before I live on my knees"
Michele: She is your
Michele: She is your daughter, if you HONESTLY don't feel comfortable letting her go with him out of the country, then you are in your right.
Sincerely,
G
"I will die on my feet before I live on my knees"
If he is taking her on a
If he is taking her on a closed loop cruise, she does not require a passport.
If you don't mind me asking....why are you uncomfortable when her going?
I think most mom's would be
I think most mom's would be pretty uncomfortable letting their 3 year old go on a cruise with an Ex, no matter how good the dad may be. I would say no flippin way.
Michelle, You do not have to
Michelle,
You do not have to let them go -- consent of the other parent is required. Now, of course, if the cruise line or whatever doesn't check, or if there is no customs control, then I'm not sure whether he would be stopped. I would contact your lawyer about this. My SD is 17 and we are taking her out of the country this summer -- and we are having to get a signed, notarized letter from her mother saying she consents to her daughter going with us.
BB
You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. - 2BLoved
I had an order of protection
I had an order of protection against him when she was born for domestic abuse. Also, I found some photos on his computer that he had taken of young teenage girls that were on his boat that were VERY inappropiate. Unfortunately he got wind of it and that computer disappeared before I could get a court order to retrieve the hard drive...
In this case I would fight
In this case I would fight this tooth and nail.
"A pessimist complains about the wind, an optimist counts on the wind changing, a realist adjusts his sails"
Not to mention she has had
Not to mention she has had THREE UTI's in the last 6 months because he doesn't properly bathe her...if he bathes her at all, when she is with him. Also, she had to have three surgeries putting tubes in her ears within the last year because he wouldn't keep her ears dry & clean from the lake water & they kept getting infected & the tubes would come out etc. The doctor finally told him AFTER the third surgery that she cannot be in water period. She's not even allowed to get her ears wet in the bath tub.
I don't know how to go about
I don't know how to go about stopping him though...I don't have a lot of money to spend on an attorney & he does...plus I'm scared of him still. We currently going to therapy (same therapist but separate visits) & she is trying to help me get over my fear of him & stand up to him.
Simple, call the cruise
Simple, call the cruise line, give them his name and your child's name, and tell them he does NOT have permission from the mother for this child to go on a cruise. They should look into it and tell him he is REQUIRED to provide a note from you saying she is ok to travel.
We get a permission slip from BM anytime we take the skids away. I wouldnt take them otherwise, in case she changes her mind.. say, while we are on vaca.
Are you in the states or in
Are you in the states or in teh UK. I am a UK family lawyer so i can tell you the law here (in teh UK where i am) if you are also here...but let me know as there is no point me waffeling if your in teh states with a differnt legal system.
Much love
LC
I am in the states. Is there
I am in the states. Is there any attorneys on here from the states that could tell me what my legal rights are on this?
He has not told me any information about the cruise besides that they are going to the caribbean. He at first just texted me and requested the dates for his vacation time with her but didnt mention what or where he was going. Then he sent me an email and this is his exact wording from the email...
"Hey I didn’t get a response on the text that I sent you regarding my vacation schedule with xxxxx this year. I want her from aud 6th thru the 12th and we wont be back in town unlil 14th probably . We will be takeing a cruise. I would like to geet her a passport to be safe and I will have to have your signiture to do so. She doesn’t have to have a passport but it is a good ideal in case of emergency."
I replied asking him where he was wanting to take her on a cruise to and he replied...
"And our cruise is going to the caribbean .it would be safer to have a passport with her but its not required, I would feel better as I think you would also."
He is not giving me any details unless I ask specifically...
Michele-he needs your
Michele-he needs your consent period. He can't take her on the cruise without it. It's the same as taking a child across state lines. If there isn't written consent given then that parent can be charged with kidnapping.
Like other posters said, try and get as much info as possible. That response he's giving you is BS....way too vague. Another red flag. Given the history you've mentioned there's no way he should take her on a cruise. But, for the sake of getting info needed to contact the cruiseline and whatever else you need to ask for:
the dates
the cruisline
Destinations including ports along the way
copy of his tentative arrangements
who else is attending
He can't give you too much hell. You're the one that's doing him a favor.
Keep us posted dear.
sounds weird to me....maybe
sounds weird to me....maybe im just skeptical....but it doesnt sound right.
if you have a court order, it should state what ages you or the dad is allowed to travel with the child?
i might be way off, but to me it seems the uti and ear thing might be being blamed on the dad wrongly...if you had an order against him, he didn't see your daughter, and now you have 50/50...just doesn't add up to me. some one who cares enough to take his daughter on a cruise, doesn't sound like a dad who wouldn't try to take care of his daughter.
we have 50/50, our court order states that we can take him out of state any time we want, with out permission so long as we notify the other parent of the itinerary. when he is 8, we can take him out of the counrty with out permission, and we have to give her a full itinerary.
here is the thing, next year, while im prego, we want to take ss on a disney cruise, he will only be 5. bm wont let us because she is jealous because we can afford things she can not. im sure she has made up all kinds of things as to why dh and i shouldnt and im sure her and her stupid little circle believe them all....but obviously there is two side to every story!
You didn't read the comments
You didn't read the comments closely...the order was in place at the beginning when I had an attorney who could speak for me. When I couldn't afford an attorney anymore, that is when he was able to get 50/50. I am no match agaisnt his attorney in the court room. I do not know what to say plus I was so scared of what he would do to get back at me. Once he started seeing her unsupervised everything started happening. I have put clean panties on her and marked them before she leaves with him. She comes back from his place wearing the same panties I sent her there in and he has not washed them or her. She will have a very bad vaginal odor & rash down there. This has been documented and seen by her daycare and the hospital. Not to mention what she has told numerous therapists, doctors, etc when they interviewed her. I am currently in the process of working with a case manager from the hospital to see what I can do to take custody away from him. I'm affraid he has gotten wind of this and may be planning to leave the country with her...does it make more sense now?
all you have to do is go to
all you have to do is go to the court. file an emergency court hearing. you make a statement of why you need the court date immediatly. they will give you one no later than one week. you show cause. show the judge the emails and texts, that bd is infact trying to take your daughter out of the country. the judge will make a decision. take pictures, letters, any proof you have of whats going on. his lawyer can not stop an immediate court hearing and will be blindsided. its up to the judge if you are able to show enough cause, he will not be able to take her.
my friend, got knocked up at 20. the father said he wanted nothing to do with her. the baby came, he saw it maybe once every two months.... then one day his mom convinced him the boy should live with her (shes the grandmother) My friend had bought two round trip tickets to take her son with her to georgia to see her family. NEVER had she ever denied the dad from seeing her son, they had "she thought" a working relationship, the dad really just didnt want to bother to be in the sons life.
well, the dad, with no lawyer, filed an emergency court hearing saying my friend planned to kid nap the child. the child was immediately removed from her custody, and FULL custody was awarded to the dad. the child lives with the grandmother, and to this day my friend cant get custody of her son.
I know someone with a
I know someone with a similar story. She took her kids to visit the grandparents in another state. She got a call from the police saying she had 24 hours to put those kids back on the plane home. She was charged with kidnapping, the kids were taken away, except for a supervised visit once a week and that's after she spent her savings on lawyer fees. What's crazier is they weren't divorced, not even filed.
There is a form on the
There is a form on the website for passports that allows a parent to sign a form to issue notice to the passport agencies so that a passport is NOT issued...I would think all these databases are linked and he would not be allowed to take her out. With that said, no matter what Mexico says, my DHs ex ALWAYS took their daughter, although she was require to have two parent's signature, etc...and never did...so, there you go.
No way in hell. Nope, nuuh.
No way in hell. Nope, nuuh. Not gonna happen sucker. I'd go to prision for murder before I'd let that happen.
Unfortunately I'm slowly
Unfortunately I'm slowly losing faith in the court system. Back when he was on supervised visitation, I caught him with her unsupervised...I had store security video & pictures of it. I filed an emergency court hearing, but they did nothing to him or the people that were suppose to be supervising the visits. I didnt have an attorney for the hearing and didnt think I really needed one but somehow he didnt get punished. His attorney was there and I couldn't get a word in edgewise to the judge. I'm scared to death to walk in the courtroom again without proper representation.
I have documented everything
I have documented everything that has been going on...I even have every conversation we have ever had recorded (this was suggested from my previous attorney). But I dont feel I can go up agaisnt his attorney in the courtroom by myself...I get too nervous when I have to speak to him.
I was going to use my tax refund to pay an attorney and he has even messed that up for me. He e-filed and claimed our daughter on his tax return this year, now I have to file by mail and can't get my refund for another 6-8 weeks since we both claimed her. I personally spoke to the IRS and I have the right to claim her but he did anyway. Just another way, in my opinion, he found to make things more complicated for me and stop me from being able to afford an attorney.
x
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I was threw a similar
I was threw a similar situation...If you do not sign a consent form he can take an itinerary to the court and have them approve it, as long as he in on the birth certificate. He also only needs to give you two weeks notice.
In your situation, you
In your situation, you definitely MUST do your legal homework. The passport laws changed very recently, like July last year or so? I believe for any cruise that even crosses foreign waters requires a passport CARD at minimum, which I see others mentioned and this is for land and water only. Therefore, if air transport is needed for any reason, it could not happen without an actual passport book. I went on a cruise this past January and I opted for the card simply because it's cheaper, and nobody had mentioned the idea of emergency flights etc.
The fact that you were never married is actually to your benefit, and his ONLY rights would be specifically spelled out in your paperwork. The problem is, he out-lawyered you and god only knows what's in there! I WAS married, and therefore had to jump thru MAJOR hoops with my husband being an alcoholic/addict...they were all telling me that with no prior record of child endangerment, they didnt care what else was on his long record, he had the exact same rights as me! And his parents could afford to out-lawyer me...I was screwed. I kept manipulating him (womanly talents) and cancelling the divorce until I got him in a position to let ME write our papers! Now, no matter what happens, all he'd ever get is 5-8pm two days a week midweek! No weekends, no overnights, no holidays...I even have that nobody is to smoke cigarettes or drink around them, and nobody is to DRIVE them without my prior consent. Those papers are EVERYTHING.
The fact that he's even asking your permission tells me that he NEEDS your permission to take her. It doesnt sound like it would go over well for you to "get ugly" about it and accuse him of having some sort of ill-intent, so it would probably be best to just blame it on yourself, say you are just not comfortable with it, you're sorry that you just feel protective and worried, and you really just prefer to wait until she's older. Whatever you have to say, say it. Maybe hone in on the fact that a Caribbean vacation for a child with ear/uti issues...they'd just have more fun without bringing a child? Maybe you could say how you just want her to outgrow these medical issues before she leaves the country without you (many of those islands ARE out of the country)?
Ok, I just did a quick google search, and it said that kids under 16 only need a birth certificate with an adult, but it's a good idea in case of emergency. I have a feeling this case is going to mostly rely on what's in your papers regarding permission needed. I didnt specifically put anything about this in my papers, I know that, but my DH would hardly ever have the kids anyways without my permission. I think you should just say you're not comfortable and dont sign it, then cover your bases in the event he tries to forge your name or something. Filing for emergency custody happens all the time (even without lawyers, or even good cause) but it sounds like he'd make you "pay" before it was all said and done if you did that.