One more question...

I have read in a couple of articles that for the children who are victims of PAS, it's like they suffer an emotional "death" as the relationship with the parent they were once close to "dies". I wonder, do they go through some sort of grieving period when they are experiencing this as they would if someone truly passed away, or is the grieving period simply the years of their life they spend angry and confused?

DH raised his kids for 4 years with no support of any kind from BM. She left them 4 times before the youngest child was 4. She showed up one day and of course, while angry with her, they were thrilled to have their mother back. From that point on, they do everything to please her, I assume for fear if they don't she'll leave again, and she gives them everything they want to keep them from being angry with her. For the 8 years I've known him, DH has maintained the position that he is the parent, and he will discipline when necessary. BM has convinced SS16 that when DH disciplines, it is a sign of disrespect. Anytime DH disagrees with SS16, it means DH thinks SS16 is stupid. She has SD13 believing that because she was a thin child at 6 years old it was because DH didn't feed her. SS16 won't take Advil for a headache when he's with DH because he's been made to believe he can't trust him, or DH doesn't know what he's doing. It all just seems so crazy. He took care of them on his own for 4 years while she was running around living her life she didn't get to live because she chose to have kids in her early 20's. BM told them that DH took her childhood away when he got her pregnant and married her. Of course, she comes out to be the victim in EVERY situation. I have my moments where I get so angry about what's happened, but I think I've gotten past that point for the most part. I've accepted the fact that she clearly has issues. Her mother raised her with the same issues. Now I'm just trying to understand and cope with it the best I can.

When I get upset or consumed by it, DH's take on it is "Just don't think about it. Just try to think about something else." I don't feel like that's the solution. He's been to enough counselors with her leaving and single parenting and co-parenting, I feel like deep down he knows that's not the answer, but it's painful for him to focus on. I can understand that, but I don't think he/we will be able to heal from this and move forward with that being his solution.

I've been told by several people that I'm getting too involved in the situation because they're not my children. I do understand that. I know they have a mother and a father, but it still affects me. I don't have children of my own. When we met, because they didn't have a mother, I was their mother figure. I went from no children to having a 5 year-old and an 8 year-old for 3 years, and then pretty much overnight went back to having no children. We're really struggling with moving forward with this empty hole. Extra-curricular activities can't fill that void.

I keep telling myself (and DH) that as they get older and experience life themselves they'll come to feel that void as well, and they'll eventually wish for a relationship with him. Maybe it'll take experiencing children and divorce themselves to understand his position. Not that I wish his situation on them, but given what they've grown up believing to be normal in a relationship, it's what I imagine for them. BM grew up without her BF and now has a relationship with him. She has a good relationship with both of her step-fathers. I'm hoping her kids will take notice of that and see that it's okay for them to have a relationship with me as a step-parent and that they'll see that even though they're growing up without their dad in their lives, even as adults, it's not too late to get to know their dad again.

I think the fact that before BM came back into the picture, I did have a stable loving relationship with SD. SS was never thrilled about me being around and was very jealous. We have since worked through that and did develop...not a great, but decent relationship. It's all gone now. I did see that on FB SD has a picture folder set up with 1 picture of BM in it. The folder is labeled "(SM) sucks and Daddy too LOL!" and her caption under the picture says "This is my one and only mommy i luv her she is my world and daddy sucks with (SM) haha".

I first noticed an uncomfortable change in my relationship with her at SS's basketball game. She wouldn't speak to me or DH until after the game when BM was away talking to the coach. She came over and initiated a hug with both of us, and as soon as she saw BM coming toward us she quickly backed away, like she was afraid BM would see her hugging me. The couple of times we see them each year (at birthday parties) I'm not sure how to act with her. I want to hug her and talk to her, but I don't want to make her feel uncomfortable.

It does sting. I am sorry for your situation as well.

I don't think we have the option of attending counseling with the kids, but we certainly would have the option for myself and DH to go. From what I've read, though, a lot of counselors hesitate to acknowledge PAS. I may be off. I haven't done extensive research, as I have only been aware of it (as PAS) for a short time. I am still searchng for answers. I have accepted the idea that more than likely it will be into their adult years that they will be willing to look beyond BM for answers and realize that they do want their dad in their lives. Of course we'd prefer it come earlier, but at least there's hope for those later years.

In our situation, there is nearly no contact between DH and the kids. Both kids have cell phones. DH calls about once a week and leaves a message to tell them he misses them and loves them, but they never call back. He worries he's intruding, and is becoming more and more hesitant to call. Of course, I believe some of the hesitance comes from the fact that more than likely his call will be ignored again. I understand that the more times he's ignored the more it hurts. I do feel, though, like it's important that he continue to let them know he thinks about them, wonders about them, and that he loves them.

That sounds like a big part of the problem we're having with SS16, is that his mother has him believing that he knows best, and that he somehow has the power to call the shots. DH won't have it. He simply feels he is the father. SS16 is the child, and right or wrong, DH and myself will call the shots in our home. BM has convinced SS16 that any correction or discipline...anything SS does not agree with or like that is enforced is a show of disrespect from DH toward SS. Therfore, he believes DH has been mentally abusive and harmful, and these are the things that have been brought up in court and have, over time, led to DH having supervised visitation only. SS tells the judge his dad has broken him down and is mentally abusive. Judge doesn't ask anymore questions. Obviously, if the child says it, it's true. I have developed a true dislike for the court system, lawyers, and personally for the judge that handles our cases. I have not seen an ounce of effort made on the behalf of the lawyers or the judge to look out for the children. It seems everything has been about who has more money to pour into a lawyers pocket, the lawyer skewing stories and saying whatever has to be said for their side to win, and which lawyer has it in best with the judge, or who owes who a favor. DH and I have both given up on the court system, and that's what brought me here. DH is ready to give up. I understand his hurt. I feel hurt too, but I guess I've always been the one who would put everything I have into making sure I don't give the other person the opportunity to say I gave up, or I didn't give it everything I could have. I don't want these kids to grow up and have ANY room to say he didn't care enough or that he gave up on them. DH will not bend to begging for their love, but I worry that he'll give up and when they realize they do need or want him in their lives, they won't have it in them to let him know. I hate for them to spend their lives with regrets like that because their minds have been skewed as children. I mentioned maybe him sending a card and just telling them how HE feels about the situation. He has always stayed clear of letting them know that they've hurt him. He feels that as children, they shouldn't have to deal with that. I feel that as teenagers they are old enough to understand hurt feelings. They've felt them. I feel like they need to see that their actions and choices affect and hurt people other than themselves. Teenagers are selfish anyway. I think he has every right to express that to them. He refuses to do it, though, simply because more than likely whatever he sends will cross through the path of BM. Obviously he has shared personal feelings with her before while going through their divorce, and she showed his letters to family and friends and she laughed at him for what he shared with her. Because of that he can't bring himself to share or express things like that with his kids. He's convinced they'll think he's a joke. I guess all I can really encourage him to do is continue making phone calls. Even if they're ignored and not returned, it'll show on their phones that he called and it'll let them know he thought of them.

You all have offered so much in your responses. Though it doesn't change the situation, it certainly does help us in trying to figure out how to cope. It's overwhelming to have so many feelings and thoughts and have no idea where to begin some sort of healing process. I have been here only for a couple of weeks, but have found steptalk to be incredibly useful and helpful, if only for me to have a place to say what I feel like I need to say without being fearful of touching DH nerves or hurt his feelings. Thank you all.