I have my complaints about my dh, and yes I am guilty of rescuing him from some responsibility...but one thing you can not label my dh is a poor father. Additionally, I might complain about bm, but I do give her credit when credit is due...

My dh does dishes, laundry, cooks the majority of the time, goes grocery shopping with me, always invites me to "hang with the guys.." when he wants some man time, and changes poopey diagers too.

You have some valid points about accountability, but you are generalizing too. Furthermore, do you understand how difficult and unfair the legal system is to men? I have lived through the court system...and our bm who to this day is unstable for her now 13 year old son, still would win custody of ss, not b/c she is a good mom but b/c she is a mom. In fact, when we were fighting for custody, ss had 3 rotting teeth in his mouth, infecting his jaw bone, and according to our attorney, WA state doesn't see rotting teeth as a sign of neglect. There are many more instances I can give, but I would end up writing a book.

Another thing you might not realize in reading some of these posts, is that men sometimes shut down over the pain that they are going through. They don't necessarily know how to handle the pain, so they in turn avoid. It isn't out of stupidity, neglect, or laziness, they just avoid b/c they don't know what else to do. And men don't necessarily go to therapy...it's kind of "pussy" to go...unless they have a wife/gf dragging them.

Our therapists has enlightened me to the ways of how men think sometimes, ways that I never envisioned how my spouse thinks about his problems. One day, when my dh didn't respond to a certain situation like I thought he would, it really bothered me, and I brought this particular situation up in therapy. The therapists said to me about how his response was..."Candice...dh didn't say what you wanted him to say b/c you can't reason with insanity..."

I think it is good to bring up questions, and ask if us step-moms are enabling situations that in turn create resentment, and cause problems. But I think it is important to understand that a lot of us are in difficult situations b/c of immaturity, irresponsibility, emotional unstability, or unfair legal systems, or all of the above. I couldn't imagine being with another person, my dh is a very loving father and husband. I truly and deeply love being married to him, but that doesn't mean I don't get frustrated from time to time.

Hi, Jenny. Boy, do I ever hear what you're saying. My dear, darling, di*khead husband (henceforth, DH) IS a deadbeat dad. He has 5 kids with 2 different women and pays diddly in child support - only 2/5 of what's court-ordered (because his ex-girlfriend doesn't harbor the same cuddly feelings his ex-wife does and collects her 2/5 through the state!). That said, despite the mistakes he's made in the past, he IS the love of my life. Unfortunately for me, my soulmate brings not only 5 kids, but two bitter women who fought over him for 10 years of his 14 year first marriage, to the table.

Being Machiavellian as you are, you must admit, women DO have a stronger impulse for the well-being of children than do men. (9 months is way longer than 9 seconds.) If this weren't the case, we wouldn't have passed millenia watching women raise their own and relatives' children whilst men left for "newer" women, work and wars. Keep in mind, "father's rights" and shared custody are relatively new phenomena. (Remember "Kramer vs. Kramer"? It was GROUNDBREAKING less than 30 years ago...)

Grown men make happen what they WANT to happen. Period.

If that be careers or computer games or vacations or affairs or child-rearing, men are wonderfully transparent and "stupid is as stupid does." And the SAME is true of grown women. If we didn't really want the best for these kids, we wouldn't invest so much of ourselves in their upbringing. If we didn't think it would somehow endear us to the man we love, we CERTAINLY wouldn't do it.

Also true is the fact that hell hath no fury like a woman scorned and there is no deeper scorn than to see a man you rejected or worse, who rejected you, making a happy life with another woman. Enter bio-mom.

By way of a little background, I am the youngest of 3 tomboys raised by a tomboy Mom and an old-school, country Dad who taught us to not only work like boys, but to think like them. (Ever seen "The Quiet Man"? ) My analytical, pragmatic upbringing is constantly at war with my innately emotional nature as a woman.

The struggle between step and bio-moms is a heart-rending struggle between what we know is best for these children and our (admittedly) irrational love for their "sperm donors," as disenchanting as they may be. We project our own instincts for child-rearing onto the man in our lives and he responds with the pat, coached lines of the '90's man... "my kids are more important to me than any woman..." "you divorce the woman, not the children..." WE believe this. They don't. They've convinced themselves they do, in the most altruistic fashion, but in their heart of hearts, if they could move on and forget about the ex and "her" kids, they would. After all, it's worked for GENERATIONS of men. It worked for my own grandfather and for my husband's father. The first wife's kids were forgotten... sad as that sounds... and may be.

Let me tell you... my Dad (he's 70 years old) told my sister recently, "If I was Blueberry's husband, I'd just move on. Forget about BM and her kids." She told me this in confidence, of course, but it struck home with me... Sometimes I envy the generation of women who raised our husbands. My MIL was the second wife and her sons never knew the "halves" who came before them. They knew OF them, but never knew them. Same for my own Dad.

My masculine upbringing tells my husband, "Just forget about them. You never see them anyway." While my nature says, "Reach out to them! Love your daughter! She'll never know how a man should treat her if YOU don't show her!"

You're right, in a way. It IS pathetic. Synonyms from Roget's Thesaurus: rending, heartbreaking, inadequate, lamentable, meager, melting, miserable, moving, paltry, petty, piteous, pitiable, pitiful, plaintive, poignant, poor, puny, rueful, sorry, TENDER, touching, useless, woeful, worthless, wretched.

Emphasis is mine on the word "tender." We, much as we like to deny it, are tender creatures. While my logical, hard-boiled brain tells me life would be easier if my husband could forget his kids like my own grandfather "forgot" the aunts & uncles I never knew, my heart breaks for these kids who miss their Dad. Especially his daughters, who have acted out in whorish ways, desperate for a man's love and approval.

By way of summary, and to make a much-longer-than-I-intended story short, women who struggle to find a balance between their love of a man and their nature to care for children (even the egg-donor's) are not to be eschewed as enabling weaklings. With the exception of this site's few wonderful male posters, I'd say most of the men involved in the conversations here are made better fathers by the women they are with now. Were it not for the "evil stepmother" many of the kids involved would have seen dad for a couple years after the divorce, pizza a few weekends, birthday cards every now and then... and ended up a Montel reunion story years later.

I admire these women. They are far better than I in that they do not begrudge these kids who their mothers are. They love them anyway. Even bio-parents struggle with terrible two's, pubescent mania and teenage angst. How much harder is it to share that with another WOMAN who cares just as much?

So, Jenny... I hope to one day be one of the proudly "pathetic." To put my stepdaughter's needs ahead of my own. To encourage my DH to call his son when he'd rather graduate to the next level of "America's Army." To reconcile this deadbeat dad I see in front of me on his kid's birthday with the dreamboat man I fell in love with.

I'm not sure what your story is, though your bio says "happily married with 2 kids." I can't really get a bead on where you're coming from. Are you a BM who loathes SM because she cares for your kids? Be grateful another woman, who has no obligation to do so, takes their lives so seriously! Are you a SM feeling put out by the DH and BM's history? Why not celebrate the fact that you're generous enough to love a man with "baggage" and care about his children?!? It makes YOU the better woman!

Anyway, Jen, this has been very cathartic for me and I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your post. Whichever side you are on, as the venerable Polonius once said "to thine own self be true." As trite as that sounds, it is always good advice. Stand as much as you can.

Blueberry's Baby

That is the ultimate benefit of the site. There is sometimes lack of acceptance or perceived lack of tolerance and sometimes rationalization for behaviours too.

Sometimes the spouse's get off the hook pretty easy. It is easier to be angrier at someone that we don't really want to like anyway, rather than this bloke that we married (even when he is irriating and seems rather thick about things!) With all this talk about "worries about spouses going back to their ex's, etc., tonight I was so annoyed with my spouse, I wanted to paste a stamp on his forehead and send him back to his ex. When he gets discussing our past disagreements shall we call them, he sometimes feels the need to suggest that the reasons that I state that something upset me isn't the real reason...it wasn't really to do with his kid's behaviour, rather it was due to some deep seeded concern that I had with my own children and was taking it out on his. Nothing gets me more irrate than him trying to prescribe my feelings and thoughts for past experiences. So tonight no beefs with an ex...but the husband may find himself in a large envelope that says "return to sender!"

BlueberrysBaby for the upcoming StepMom Award...

Everyone is cordially invited to join me in the 'conference room' for refreshments... just look for the word 'new' in red listed in the upper corner... please check all baggage at the door...

Jenny-

Whew girl, did you stir up a hornets nest! Well, honey, after reading all of the other posts above and catching up... I really only have one thing to say... my husband is fully and completely involved with SS's life and he has NO CONTROL over his daughter's life not because he's lazy, but because BM in that situation is elusive, and defiant.

I don't know what you're reading, but what I've been reading doesn't tell me that the fathers aren't involved. Only the mother's...

Now no he does not come online and post and stuff. He keeps alot of emotions inside- a man thing I think. However I do not enable him to not do things- I didn't make or tell my husband to spend 2 years fighting for permanent custody of his children- ( he previously had temporary) And for that matter he is an amazing father- no he is not only there for them in the good times- he spends his life trying to make their lives better. He is hands on, diapers when they were little, cooking, teching, reading, discipline, baths, and play time, when they are sick we are both up at night cleaning up puke, rubbing backs, giving medicine, Now I do help him but I have been their mom since they were little so its like the have a full family at home. But this is a man that does nurture his kids. It is not all men especially not my husband. Now maybe this is not the norm- but I am damn proud that my husband if the father that he is-and he works a FULL time job and does all of this too.

My DH is no simple sperm donor. His ex booted him out of the house when his daughters were 2 & 3 years old. EVERYTHING was his fault.
She is bipolar and for 10 years has made life hell just for the fun of it.
I don't wage wars with the BM. I feel sorry for her. Her only happiness comes from making my DH unhappy. He has always wanted a closer relationship with his daughters, but he has be conditioned to realize that by trying to be involved (calling, trying to visit outside of his court-ordered visitation, attending school functions and meetings) - all these things were just an opportunity for his ex to mentally and verbally abuse him. She made it so hard that it was just a relief to have a weekend without the SD's, because that meant no contact with BM. Yes it is a cop-out, yes he wants to fight for his daughters, yes she wins when he gives up - but sometimes it's all you can do. I feel sorry for the SD's too, they missed out on alot with their Dad over the years because she is so vindictive. A couple of months back he asked her "why do you hate me so much?". Her response was because he didn't take the girls to doctor's appointments when they were little, she always had to do it. HELLO - first he has to know they even have an appointment. Her job lets her take time off with pay for these things and he works in another town 50 miles away! Even when they want to be involved some fathers are sidelined, and the courts are extremely biased against fathers.
A big part of the reason I come here is to get support when dealing with a nasty BM. Plus, now that my SD's are 13 & 14 they are becoming typical teenagers. The other weekend the DH was laying down the law because the SD's were caught excessively swearing in public. DH told the kids they had to stay home that evening instead of going out with friends. The yougest called her Mom on the cell phone to cry about the punishment. The BM calls my DH and SCREAMS "WATCH IT OR I'LL TAKE THEM AWAY FOREVER!!" Now we both know she can't do that and that she is totally ridiculous, but this kind of harassment is what makes it so easy to limit our contact with the kids. We'd rather have peace than constant drama. Sometimes we secretly look forward to our time alone together without the B-S.
End line is everyone's situation is differnt and men express themselves differently from women.
Just my 2 cents

Before I met my husband I did not want kids and certainly did not want to date a man who had one or had an ex that would be forever in his life. Surprise Surprise...that is who I feel in love with and that is why I feel in love with him. A grown man who could care less about how silly he looked making stupid faces just to make his little girl laugh.

He is wonderful dad and husband. We have a baby together now and yes he gets up in the middle of the night to change a diaper, to console a crying baby.

He fought with all his heart and money to get more time with his daugther...his own doing with my support. He gives of himself daily to us his family. Sure maybe I do more laundry or more loading of the dishwasher but he cuts the grass, takes the garbage out. In my previous life I did it all. He wanted me to have a housekeeper just because he hates doing it so why should I do it.

Yes, he is a sperm donor and that I am thankful for because without that I wouldn't have my beautiful son or my beautiful SD and the one on its way.

I know there are good dads out there like I said "in my opinion" as well as I know there are women who should not be mothers step or biological. I do know a certain guy who is going through a custody case who is an excellent father to his kids but is not being treated fairly because of these selfish men who are giving good fathers a bad name. People need to stop worring about who gets the last jab and focus on taking care of themselves and their children.

Too right!

I have to speak on behalf of my EX and my DH- My EX is a wnderful father. We share 50/50 of our girls. He takes equal amount of time off when one is sick and can't go to school. He takes them to the doctor just as much as I do, provides a loving and caring home...

My DH has 50/50 of my SS and I have to say IS the primary care taker of him, on paper however is NON Custodial (someone has to be, right? Can't both be CUSTODIAL but it really should be DH as she has serious issues all the way around). I get along swimmingly with BM HOWEVER BM struggles with being responsible on a very regular basis leaving DH and I to take care of nearly all of the caretaking of SS. Almost to the point that she takes advantage of our willingness to care for him. She gets to play with him 3 days a week and sends him to our house for the doctors appointments, discipline and all the other facts that go along with actually RAISING a child. From taking him to the doctor, to potty training (which was VERY difficult when only enforced in ONE home) she does not concern herself with the emotional well being, or making sure he has clothes that fit him. She puts him in shoes that are 2 sizes too small and keeps the brand new shoes we purchased for him...done purposely??? I can't honestly say. She has issues with drugs (THC) which makes her desicion making skills sub-par to say the least. When he is sick at her house, she calls me to find out what to do. The motherly instinct just didn't come naturally with her and being a wonderful father came to my DH bountafully. His BIODad (my father in law) played a SMALL role in his life and it mostly had a negative impact. I believe this play a huge role in why he is determinded to have a positive role in his sons life and let me tell you... FATHER OF THE YEAR, DECADE- LIFETIME! I hold him in the highest regard for who he is to his son as well as to MY girls. He still makes mistakes, we all do... but he gets an A+++++++ for effort and nearly always has success. He would never take the time to come on her and post though, he is a private kind of guy... but the BEST one I have ever met!

Well good for you gals and for Corporal Steve. I'm glad to hear that Ward Cleaver & Robert Young were not fictional characters after all.

I'm quite certain my life would have been different had my own Dad not been the "strong, silent type" but that's who he is and as they say, a woman marries a man like her father. So the DH is really the career-driven, wanderlustful, old-fashioned SOB he is and I love him to death. What goads me is his PRETENDING to be Dustin Hoffman in Kramer vs. Kramer. He ISN'T. And what the hell is wrong with that? If his nature is to be removed, why can't he be? After all, his first wife CHEATED on HIM, divorced HIM. He would have grinned and born it, but she quit on the marriage. He was miserable, but he would have stuck it out. She FILED and she sued for FULL CUSTODY.

So why can't he let it lie? Because he's been COACHED that he should be someone he's not. He's been coached to feel guilty for not being a warm, cuddly dad. I didn't marry a "man of the 90's" - I, frankly, married a man of the 40's if anything. I'm more of a Rosie the Riveter myself. Just because his first wife misread him and thought she was getting something different, why should we all have to pay for it? As I said, she divorced HIM. She sued for full custody. What about the consequences for HER???

Blueberry's Baby

My hb is not a deadbeat dad at all. He pays all his cp and still gets extras for the kids. He did more housework last week to get ready for an event I was hosting than I did. He doesn't put on me to do extra for the kids but appreciates it when I do. It was a little bumpy with his teenage sd but she was so out of control no one knew what to do for her.

My hb supports me in getting my certificate so I can be in the workforce, but would also support me if I wanted to stay home and have a kid. It's nice to have that choice in life.

My hb's x really is horrible. She is waging war on me weather I engage or not. It's really made things harder for the kids and she also falsifies info to get more cp. My hb is not perfect but I don't think he deserves the crap he gets from his second wife. She is using his child to be abusive towards him and that is wrong on many levels. His first wife has never had a job a day in her life and is still supported by my husband's military salary; yet she has no appreciation at all for his contribution. Sometimes I think he gives his life for these kids and they are being trained to see him as the bank.

I agree that women fighting over men is petty and anti-feminist, but I'm a feminist and the X really is acting whacko and sometimes I need to vent. I vent around adults, not around the children and that is appropriate.

I understan that some men go out and get a new wife to take care of their kids. Part of the difficulty here is that if those women get mad and don't pick up the slack the kids end up doing without. It's hard to ignore the kids needs like that even if the men should be doing more.

I do think that all the jealousy is kind of petty but it's also kind of human. I think it matters more what we do with the feelings than just having them. I am not jealous in an extreme. I seem to have a blind spot where that emotion lives. If my husband wanted to have sex with another woman I would probably let him as long as we agreed to certain ground rules. In fact I've made the offer and he turned it down. Go fig. I think it would bug me if he hooked up with the ex though. There's no chance of that happening however.

Well, I'm not writing to say that someone should pin a medal on my hb, but there are good guys out there. I dated, married some really selfish men over the years and finally looked for someone who had inner beauty instead of being flashy on the outside. It turned out to be a good decision.

Well, just my two cents as usual.

// Susanna

"One breath at a time is an acceptable plan."
Ani DiFranco

I'm not sure if it was my replies or some of the anonymous posts or Jenny's original posting that so offended Cpl Steve and the bio-moms here. On behalf of all of us, I'd like to apologize. Sometimes the ugly words that come out in our homes end up coming out on the keyboard as well. The vitriol is misdirected and that isn't right OR fair. I apologize.

My original reply about my DH being a "deadbeat" still stands - he's not involved in his kids' lives at all and any protests he makes that he wants to be still ring hollow because of his inaction. I admit I'm not any help to him in this because I plainly don't want them around. The skids don't get in touch with him either - BM is the only one still in contact and it's a one-way conversation.

I apologize too for cracking wise about Ward Cleaver or whatever. I guess I was feeling particularly chippy that day. It's great when a dad can be involved with his kids' lives after divorce - I think he should consider his marriage (his current one!) above his kids though as everything trickles down, but if all is well in that department, then it's clearly for the best.

I only meant to point out that stereotypes don't get started on their own. MOST men are not inclined to parenthood and all that it entails. Kudos to those who are. Honestly. I still ask though - why torture a man who isn't? Why make him go against his own nature? I'll give you that he should have kept his zipper up or brought an umbrella if he didn't want to be a dad - I agree with that completely. But putting the shoe on the other foot, we live in a society where a woman has the right to terminate the life of her own child before it's even born if she decides she doesn't want to be a mother - why can't a dad move away and have his own life? He hasn't taken anyone else's.

I don't know - maybe I'm just too old-fashioned. I really believe that mothers are primary in children's lives (even by natural law - they give them birth and suckle them - and we all know not to mess with a mama bear, but the only "papa bear" is in Goldilocks, not in nature, where he can be found hangin' in his bachelor cave). Father's are GREAT to have, but like air vs. clean air they are not necessary by its very definition, but rather BEST (I know I'm drawing daggers by saying that and I have shields up already). When a couple splits, "best" has already gone by the wayside. It just makes logical sense to me then that the necessary parent keep the children.

All of this is ONLY my opinion of course and I know lately the world sees things differently and if anyone still feels this way, we're supposed to keep quiet as it's terribly un-PC. I just feel like all the "co-parenting" is petting the cat backwards as evidenced by the very existence of this site.

Again, I apologize for the hurt feelings. My opinions and those of "Anonymous" (and everyone here for that matter) are nothing but that and you know what they say about opinions... they're like poopchutes - everybody's got one.

Blueberry's Baby

Jenny,

I must say that I do agree with a good majority of your posts..Especially when my DH has pissed me "F-ing off"..LOL...

However, I don't think it's fair to throw all men into the dead beat basket. I happen to know many men that are very good and very active fathers. I deal with a Dead Beat mom in my step paretning situation..