OT - DD's daycare - VENT

So, DD goes to daycare 2 half-days per week. The creche is open 7.30 am - 6.30 pm, and the half-days are 7.30 am - 1 pm or 1 pm - 6.30 pm. I chose mornings, and the drop-off is anytime before 9 am, because that's when they start with the routines and activities. Until today, I've been operating under the assumption that I need to be there by 1 pm to pick up DD. So I get there usually between 12.45 and 1 pm, chat with the staff about how the day went for DD, get her to go pee and take off her slippers/put on her boots, get her coat on and out the door. On a fast day, this is 10-15 minutes. On a slow day, 20 minutes. I ride herd on DD, but not loudly enough to disrupt sleeping/playing kids, and I do so to keep her from starting to play with the other children again or starting a convo with the staff... thus, in my mind, I'm specifically doing my best to AVOID being a problem for others.

Today I was 5-7 minutes late. The leader of DD's group reminded me that I really must pick up DD by 1 pm.

Then when I checked my email tonight, the director of the daycare had sent me an email saying that she has noticed that I am very slow to pick up DD lately and that today I didn't leave the premises until 1.25 pm. And that in terms of other parents and the staff, this is not appropriate.

Now, keep in mind, all of this happened in Dutch, and I only learned that language a few years ago. And it's a different culture, wherein I've noticed people assume certain conduct or responses without anyone specifically saying anything to that end.

So I wrote back asking for some clarification. I said that I have been operating assuming that I must be there to pick up DD at 1 pm (my Dutch husband said that is also what he assumed they meant) but it now sounds as though they are saying I must leave the premises by 1 pm. I said that I assumed that once I was there and was supervising DD, neither of us were creating an issue for anyone else. So would she please clarify what is meant by 'pick up at 1 pm.'

I also said that I thought this way of speaking to me was frustrating. I am there 2-3 times per week in person, I am extremely friendly and approachable, and I was told just this afternoon by the leader of DD's group that I really must be on time. It is obvious to anyone who listens to me speak Dutch that I am a non-native speaker and I clearly come from another culture. If she (the director, who has spoken to me a number of times) thought there was something I didn't understand, why not just ask me about it to find out what needs to be explained? I am not a child nor am I stupid, so I find it unnecessarily unpleasant to be spoken to as such. DH read it over before I sent it and he said I was very clear about asking what the rules are and also clearly told the director that I found her email unacceptably rude.

I mean, sure, there may be something I don't understand, but why talk like that? Even DH said that after reading her email, it's still not clear what the guidelines or rules are and what I'm supposed to do. Other than not leave at 1.25 pm... so is 1.24 pm ok? Like, just freakin' tell me what the issue is and what needs to be happening. No need to be snotty. I don't like to be criticized, but if you're going to criticize, could you not at least be clear about what needs to change?

I was so angry I was shaking, I even shed a couple of tears of frustration. I mean, it's such a small thing, but it is so g*ddamn isolating to be an immigrant in such a homogenous, close-minded culture where everybody just thinks the same and nobody ever considers what it might be like to not belong.

Well maybe not NOBODY. But not that lady today, anyways.

For those who'd like to comment, I could do with some virtual hugs. And maybe stories of how good triumphed over evil that one time.

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Comments

I think you handled it very

I think you handled it very well. (((HUGS)))

If you are to be "off the

If you are to be "off the property by 1 pm" I would insist that teachers present you with a child that is prepared to leave... not one that needs to go to the bathroom and suited up!

Yes, that too!!! I know they

Yes, that too!!! I know they don't do that because of course you can pick up anytime as well.

They have another kind of childcare here, called a toddler-playroom, and that is where the drop-off and pick-up times are firm, and it's 2 or 2.5 hours I think. There you have 15 minutes to drop-off and if you're late, oh well, you miss this time. And 15 minutes to pick up, but the kids are ready to go and if the weather doesn't suck, they're all outside playing waiting for the parents. I know this from a mom friend who is also an expat, and she said that all the Dutch moms are usually early and waiting around for the kids to come outside. And that she thought that was so weird since you pay for the time, why show up essentially 30 minutes before you need to pick up your kid? Which is why sometimes I think it's cultural. Although the Dutch are known to be cheap, so you'd think they'd be showing up just as the clock strikes and not a moment before.

Awww, many hugs!! I

Awww, many hugs!!

I understand your frustration. It reminds me of the time I picked my niece up from swimming. My sister did not tell me that I actually had to go into the locker room to get her so I was waiting outside the locker room for my niece to come out.

I finally wondered what was taking her so long and went in to get her. The teacher just handed me a piece of paper, without even looking me in the eye. I didn't read it until I was in the car and it was a note saying that I must pick her up on time, blah, blah, blah. Had he said something to me, I could have explained that I was not late, I was there the whole time she was swimming! I was fuming mad that he just assumed I was not on time and didn't even have the guts to talk to me or give me the chance to explain and apologize for the misunderstanding. Just reprimanded me in a note, like a child.

I would assume the same, that

I would assume the same, that you just need to be there by 1pm. But I could also see the side of if you're there right at 1pm and trying to talk to the teachers about your daughter, they are distracted from their other duties. So I could also see them wanting you to be done conversing with them by 1pm, but I wouldn't think you getting your daughter ready to leave by yourself past that time would be an issue.

I've had terrible times with daycares sorry you're going thru this. I hope at least it's a facility you like and feel comfortable with and that this was just a misunderstanding.

The staff are lovely, the

The staff are lovely, the environment is good - small and with a large outdoor space, and I can see that my kid just blossoms with the routine and support she gets there.

But a lot of things don't seem to be explained properly. A couple of weeks ago I went in to try to exchange some days as we had planned our vacation and knew that we would not be using some time. I watched as the staff member wrote down all the info, and then she told me that she would get back to me. Today I mentioned it to a different staff member as no one had gotten back to me. This person then explained that they wouldn't know if the exchanges were possible until about 3 weeks ahead as new kids might be starting between now and then and there might not be space. Aha! Of course that makes sense, and now I know to double-check about 3 weeks ahead. But really, why not explain that to me at once? I suppose they thought I knew? Or they assumed they'd explained more clearly than they had?

A few weeks ago I asked for an appointment with their 'extra' colleague. Appointments are normal, you can ask for time with any particular staff member for any reason. There is no limit and they do that to support parents however they can. Because it's a special daycare designated to help kids who speak a different language at home they have an extra person most of the time. It's nearby so that had nothing to do with why I included it when I was looking for a daycare, but they offer more routine and more communication (supposedly) with the parents which definitely influenced my choice. The extra colleague pulls out kids to work with one-on-one. For DD, this lady has helped her learn social skills so that she knows how to approach other kids to play together and can handle the rejection when a kid doesn't want to play (or doesn't want to play how DD likes to play). This is great since DD is an only child and other than playdates (or at the gym babysitting) doesn't interact with other kids that much... and except for two, most of my mom-friends are serious helicopter parents. Holy digression, Batman. Anyway, I've also followed up about that appointment a couple of times, and it just never seems to go anywhere. Ugh.

Sounds like you didn't speak

Sounds like you didn't speak to the director concerning the schedule change or appointment request.

I would definitely talk to the director about the appointment request if it still has not been addressed yet.

If it's a good facility, you like the teachers, and your daughter is happy there I'd try to go with the flow, even if they're being difficult. I'd rather deal with difficult communication than try to go somewhere else and end up with a terrible daycare

Hugs Moe.

Thanks robin - much needed

Thanks robin - much needed and much appreciated.

Thanks - yes, I sometimes

Thanks - yes, I sometimes feel literally like an alien. I walk around and blend in, but everything looks and sounds and sometimes IS so strange!

And thanks for the mommy-compliment too!

Yeah, I really am not sure

Yeah, I really am not sure what the deal was. I've turned it over to DH since nothing fazes him and this kind of thing will cost me tons of emotional energy that I just don't want to spend.

If you were five minutes late

If you were five minutes late arriving to pick up your child in the U.S., they would charge you a $10 late fee. Even if it was because it was a blizzard and you were stuck on the highway. Sorry for your frustration--what is it about the Dutch? I have a friend who lives there and she has also experienced people being very impatient with the fact she is learning the language.

I'd be ok with being charged

I'd be ok with being charged $10 if I'm late.... assuming someone, sometime, somewhere had freakin' TOLD me that's how it works!!!!

I don't know what it is. Lots of them are normal, but some cannot be explained.

For your friend, usually the problem is that Dutch people are show-offs and impatient. So they hear her accent and want to show off their great English and get things done quickly, so they just switch to English. Tell her to just keep speaking Dutch and s.l.o.w. d.o.w.n. }:)

This is so true. My stepmom

This is so true.
My stepmom was Dutch and sometimes she just seemed so rude but really she was just blunt and honest.

I've been thinking about

I've been thinking about this. I don't think that we have to choose between being honest or being polite. Aren't they both possible?

I think sometimes people who are more on the selfish side are more likely to be rude while being honest or blunt, because it does take a little longer to say what we mean in a gentle way. "Shut up!" is faster than, "That's far too loud for inside the house, turn it down a couple of notches," for example.

I don't even know if it's

I don't even know if it's passive-agressive, just plain aggressive, or just plain poor communication skills. I think another commmenter was on to something when she suggested they may have needed to document something, but OTOH, you'd think they'd have to be clear on what the problem is and what needs to be to correct it. Ugh. Just ugh.

F2F is not rude - in fact, random strangers will regularly approach you to provide unsolicited advice on everything from your outfit to your garden to your parenting. So much fun over here :O

Yes, interesting election results! Also nice that the way the government works, people have to suck it up and work together. This election they'll need to form a 4-way coalition government.

I would think it were for

I would think it were for their documentation. Center had a concern and addressed it with parent. Face to face is nice, record keeping is official.

I wonder if the center has a handout for clients? I'd think they would. Parents searching for a place and thinking of two or three different centers would find a 'how we do things and our expectations' helpful in decision making.

I could understand that they

I could understand that they may have needed something in writing. I still don't get why it was handled and phrased unpleasantly - it does sometimes seem to me that people with poor people and communication skills get jobs in management.

Like you say, if they have a handout, why not attach it to the email or otherwise refer to what useful information such a handout may contain?

If it were me, I would have started a conversation. "Dear Moe, today you left very late, at 1.25 pm. This isn't the first time that you've left with DD later than xyz time. We ask that parents leave with their children by xyz time/arrive for pickup no later than lmnop time/whatever magic rule. Did something happen today that we can help you with for the future?"

And then I could have apologized again for arriving late, the expectations would have been clear, and I could have explained that I actually went back just before exiting to report a large leak I noticed coming from a radiator. And that I would abide by whatever the just stated expectation was. Then we would both feel good about the interaction and we would both be sure that I knew what to do to keep things running smoothly.

For example. But again, I've got people and communication skills (in three languages, no less) which is why I'm not in management. Eye-roll emoji.

It seems to me like if they

It seems to me like if they wanted you to hustle on out they would have your daughter packed and ready to go at 12:45.

I know - the whole thing is

I know - the whole thing is just very vague and yet very tense.

Uhhh living in a foreign

Uhhh living in a foreign country really sucks st times. I'm in my second one now and even though they supposedly speak my mother toungue here there are still linguistic and cultural differences that go over my head or impede what I want to communicate.

It is difficult for most people to understand that what they are saying, as clear as it is to them, is not clear to someone who is not from the same region. I have been on the other end of things and had to work with and teach and tutor people from a lot of different countries in my home country and I know that I messed up lots of times too and that my assumptions and ways of communicating did not work well all of the time. So I understand it is not the individuals fault but merely one of circumstance.

It is so effin tiring too when you are in a different country and everything is different, done in slightly different ways, and you have to relearn how to do everything from addressing an envelope to greating people. Then the frustration that comes with knowing that you are a smart person but you are constantly flumouxed by everyday tasks or trying to communicate clearly and knowing that these other people must be thinking that you are really dumb or a crazy foreigner.

I am sorry for the trouble you have had today. Sounds like one of those days when it feels like you have taken ten steps backwards. I do wonder though if the director or the teacher was 'trying' to be mindful of your language skills and wrote the email to you so that you would have time to be able to read the words and might (in their heads) better understand it than a verbal conversation.

I hope that they clarify the rules for you and things can move forwards in a better light.

I'm fairly sure that the

I'm fairly sure that the email was written without consideration. It's not the first oddly rude communication. The Dutch pride themselves on being direct (or blunt as stated above) but it's been my experience they are very clear about what they like and don't like (usually don't like) while interpersonal communication is quite vague and indirect.

For those commenting

For those commenting specifically to the time, I agree, it would be useful to know what is expected. It does indeed seem that I've made an assumption about what pickup means that is not what they intend, hence my request for more information. To speculate about what they mean or why they may have certain rules is just uselessly making more assumptions.

As my DH pointed out to me last night, I'm a very considerate and thoughtful person, so of course it's upsetting to be told I've been disruptive without realizing it. And also distressing that I was not given the necessary information about what I can change to improve things.

That being said, DH will be filling a complaint as this is not the first time the director has been oddly rude. (Other times oddly friendly as well, actually :? .) And this morning we sent an email requesting that all further written information be sent to his email instead.

This is such a great example of teamwork: of course I can handle this just fine on my own, but I find it very upsetting and the nuances of communicating in my third language is an intellectual and emotional challenge. And yet this kind of thing is water off a duck's back for DH. He doesn't care about getting along and wouldn't be upset at all by such an email. He's Dutch and can quickly say what needs saying. He's also much better at stating only what needs to be said whereas I get bogged down with details. So I won't have this headache again! Yay!

Side note: asking DH to take over was really tough. I'm so used to just taking care of everything on my own. So much easier with help!