Long Vent - Fight with DH about Child Support
As a backstory: Married to DH about 6 months. Together 5 years in June. Great relationship with 4 skids (SD15, SD12, SS6 and SS4). Great relationship with BM1 and pretty good relationship with BM2. I'm 28, DH is 51.
DH was a very high level banking exec making 600K+ a year. Was going through the divorce when I met him and was in guilty dad mode. Signed off in mediation on $2,900 child support for BM2, was already paying BM1 $2,500. This was not a major stretch with his income.
I make low 6 figures and do not need his money in the slightest. We live in a large house that he owned prior to me being in the picture. I give him $1,200 towards rent/bills each month, plus pay for all groceries, most of the gas for the car (shared car) and pay about half of entertainment expenses. I also pay for cable, internet, and phone. I pay all my own bills....credit card, cell phone, entertainment, etc. We have separate bank accounts and I just transfer him money for "my share"
DH got laid off effective 6/1. He had severance that went through September. He still has not found a job and he is just using up savings paying child support and the mortgage. I've moved him and all the kids onto my insurance plan, which costs me quite a bit each month. In addition, his oldest daughter is a Type 1 Diabetic so I spend a lot on medical supplies. I pay for the "extras" for the kids now....clothes when we're out, dinner on Thursdays (our dinner night out with them).
We hired a lawyer a few months ago to try and get child support lowered. The lawyer says our case doesn't look good because we have too much in savings. I guess he thinks they will go after DH's 401K and pension, which is maybe only 100k. We have no income coming in from him!!! How can they expect him to continue paying $5,400 a month with no income!!!
Even if he found a job, it would be very unlikely for him to find one at his past salary. We are selling our house and moving into a 1BR with loft apartment in another city (my hometown of Philadelphia, where his job prospects will be better). I will be paying all bills there.
We got into a discussion about what to do if the child support doesn't get lowered. I said "I'm sorry, but I will not be paying your child support. I can not and I will not." He did NOT like this! He started going off about how we're married, and his responsibilities are my responsibilities. Hell to the no. In Texas (where his divorce was finalized and where his child support case is), the step-parent's income is not factored in to proceedings. BM2 is remarried and DH is remarried, and thankfully they can't go after either of our income in this.
I said "If your kids need clothes I will buy them, if they need school supplies I will buy them. If they need food I will buy it. But I will NOT send my money in a check to support another woman. Just because you signed the birth certificate of a child that wasn't yours and then continued to not use birth control after that and made another, I am not responsible to pay for another woman you used to have sex with"
He was furious. He started gaslighting about how I don't pay 50/50 share of our house. I told him when I moved in that I cannot afford the house ($4,000ish mortgage and expenses) and if he wanted 50/50, we needed to move to a more manageable place. We agreed I would give him what I could, and I feel what I'm paying is more than fair. Plus, we have his kids every other weekend here!
I am so hurt and angry. I have never said no. His kids have never gone without. I am the one who coordinates everything with BMs.....I'm the one who spends hours on the phone with insurance companies getting SD15s insulin and pumps covered. I'm the one who takes SD12 to the mall and goes to 10 stores because she is too tall for kids clothes but too skinny for juniors. I'm the one who helps with math homework, who takes them to Staples and buys them school supplies. I'm the one who makes them Valentine and Easter baskets. I'm the one who picks out (and pays for) all of their birthday and Christmas presents since I actually know them and their taste.
I'm so furious that he has the nerve to even act like this. I can understand how he can be upset and how it can seem selfish, but I do not bust my ass working to support another woman! We got married and haven't even gone on a honeymoon so that we didn't diminish our savings to pay child support!
I have to draw the line somewhere. BM2 lives in a huge house with a pool and goes on a ton of vacations every year. I will not give money to support her living outside of her means. Even if I wanted to, I don't have an extra $5,400 a month after paying all the bills. I respect myself too much to pay for another woman's lifestyle. @$#*&^(*&***@@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Comments
I told him "I will not pay
I told him "I will not pay your child support. If you want to continue paying, you need to file unemployment and give it all to your exes, get a job at WalMart and give the money away, whatever you have to do."
He's insane. My guess is,
He's insane.
My guess is, much of his ego is wrapped up in how good of a provider he was. I would bet it kills him inside to have to admit to the ex's and the skids that Daddy Warbucks is no more.
BINGO!! Overpaying CS and
BINGO!! Overpaying CS and being proud of it is just another symptom of guilty daddy. These guys believe that overpaying makes them a "good dad" and "not like ALL those other deadbeat dads out there" (TM)
And they believe that stepmom should be more than willing to cover uber CS as its all part of the "package."
All too common an attitude. Chef was fine with earning $13 an hour, paying $1,400 a month in CS and having me cover all the bills.
That's just crazy. Frankly he
That's just crazy. Frankly he should be counting his lucky stars you pay for all the things for his kids that you do. I'm not sure I'd even be doing that.
Can't believe the courts
Can't believe the courts would dig into his savings and 401 k for CS. That is an insane amount to have to give.
And why has he not filled unemployment?????
I'd ask him who he thought
I'd ask him who he thought would be paying it if you left, because that's what I would be planning to do if he didn't back down. I don't care WHAT the amount is, none of it is your responsibility.
No, no, no. Stand your
No, no, no. Stand your ground. He should be grateful you are covering all that you are. What would he do if you weren't together?
It sounds like he doesn't
It sounds like he doesn't want to admit to his exes, children and the world that he lost his job. Dude needs to man up, file for unemployment and get an adjustment.
My question is what has he
My question is what has he done with his money? Even with his house payment and CS there are still hundreds of thousands of dollars unaccounted for. And it sounds like you have more than contributed your share so it's not like he's been spending his money on you.
He's 51 and only has $100,000 in pension and 401K? I'm pretty sure I know the company he worked for - they had excellent benefits.
Be very, very careful here. At his age he may never even get a 6 figure job again much less a $600K job. You could find yourself supporting him and his children for the rest of your life.
Why did he not file for
Why did he not file for unemployment and for a modification of child support as soon as he got laid off?
To expect you to pay his child support is just expecting too much. To be mad that you won't is just wrong (to put it nicely).
Only for the time period
Only for the time period covered by the severance package. If you get 6 months severance you cannot file for unemployment until after the 6 months ends. But if you are still unemployed you can then file.
Oooh I smell a USER... gets a
Oooh I smell a USER...
gets a younger woman to raise his kids
gets a younger woman to pay his bills
gets a younger woman to... ummm, well you know
Get out, you don't need this.
I'm wondering if he has money
I'm wondering if he has money stashed away somewhere else. How can someone earning that kind of money not have more than 100K in retirement???? The fact that he was a banking exec and didn't put away more than that is mind boggling
Time to start snooping.
I'm not unsympathetic he lost
I'm not unsympathetic he lost his job, I'm not. At his age he'll have a hard time with not just hopefully regaining equal employment, but so to his pride. He had the rug pulled out from ender him so to say.
With that said, he's being an unrealistic a**. As much as $5400 sounds like a lot of money, it was peanuts. What? Roughly 10% of his income per year? That's 10% divided between two household (two BM) and four children. Percentage wise a large majority of fathers are giving much more of their available income.
You said your own income is lower six figures. For an examples sake I'll say $150,000. Does that husband of yours realize he's asking you to pay roughly 44% of your income a year for HIS CHILDREN SUPPORT??? Not to mention cover their health insurance and pay 'your share' of household expenses.
No. Just no.
I agree with all of the
I agree with all of the above.
PLUS you shouldn't be paying 50/50 of the household expenses because you are only 1/6 of that household. At most, you should be paying 25% or so...and that's being generous on your part. Sounds like you've been doing A LOT more than that.
As other posters have mentioned...sounds like he has money management as well as basic math problems. Only has 100k in savings at that salary? That's not even enough to cover a year of just the CS and mortgage...probably only six months once you add in the expenses on a house and household of that size. That brings me to the basic math. If you're making low six-figures, it sounds like you make enough after taxes to cover CS and mortgage only. Then you've got food, health insurance, bills, utilities...etc. there's no way those numbers work. As a banker, shouldn't he have basic budgeting skills?
He really expects you to give away about HALF of your post-tax income to other women? What a jerk.
PS - I'm all for a married
PS - I'm all for a married couple being a team and helping each other through tough times. My husband and I are both freelance...some months I make more than my husband and I put more into our joint household account...sometimes he makes more and he covers more. I don't try to make it be equal to the penny...especially if we're on the same page about the budget and expenses.
But the guy has to meet you halfway. The solution to this problem is not for you to shoulder everything. Part of surviving this tough time is to get the benefits you're entitled to and to cut expenses...including child support.
PS - I'm all for a married
PS - I'm all for a married couple being a team and helping each other through tough times. My husband and I are both freelance...some months I make more than my husband and I put more into our joint household account...sometimes he makes more and he covers more. I don't try to make it be equal to the penny...especially if we're on the same page about the budget and expenses.
But the guy has to meet you halfway. The solution to this problem is not for you to shoulder everything. Part of surviving this tough time is to get the benefits you're entitled to and to cut expenses...including child support.
PS - I'm all for a married
PS - I'm all for a married couple being a team and helping each other through tough times. My husband and I are both freelance...some months I make more than my husband and I put more into our joint household account...sometimes he makes more and he covers more. I don't try to make it be equal to the penny...especially if we're on the same page about the budget and expenses.
But the guy has to meet you halfway. The solution to this problem is not for you to shoulder everything. Part of surviving this tough time is to get the benefits you're entitled to and to cut expenses...including child support.
I see this totally from the
I see this totally from the other perspective. It's not that she is too young for him. In my opinion he is too old for her. I was trying not to get into this - as I realize that I am terribly biased here.
And it's not because I am old and resent the young. It's more that I was young once and have now seen what youth gives up when it attaches to old.
My friends who married older men are now living horrible lives with OLD broken men - if they are even still alive. It's not that the men are awful or that they didn't have many good years - but these women are still vital people who are tied down with men who can't walk 30 feet. Going to a restaurant much less a trip is an ordeal. No traveling overseas or even to NY. And forget about sex - that evaporated years ago for these women.
Of course my situation is the opposite. I'm close to 70 but in very good health and active. My husband is almost a decade younger. He's the one who may get stuck with an old person.
The problem with your and
The problem with your and your DH is you have shouldered too much responsibility behind the scenes. Did he ever reimburse you for medical stuff, school supplies, extra clothing? Not to mention getting them added to your insurance. Who is paying for that? Are either of those BMs chipping in? Why are you arranging all the supplies for the diabetic? Don't her parents take some responsibility for their child?
By doing all of this stuff you have made yourself into the go-fer person. You are assuming all the duties of a mother without any recognition. And why isn't your DH on the phone with the insurance companies if he is unemployed? You created this by assuming all these extras when this was all down to the kids parents. I see this time and again here. S/moms are up in arms because they do so much and receive nothing in return. The reason is THEY take on too much.
And how come you have been together 5 years and he has a 4 yr old?
Not to mention the 100K in a 401K. Unless he has a nice stock portfolio and received extras in shares.
He can get a lower paying job and you can live a more suitable lifestyle (and Thursday night dinners would be the first thing to go!). When my DH was laid off his $50K a year job (yes, some of us still work at that level) we were living off his unemployment and my pay check. We cut right back. We had to to keep our home. Luckily he got a job in 6 weeks and then a better job 6 weeks after that. But those few weeks taught us a lesson in spending and saving.
When you discuss it w/DH, try
When you discuss it w/DH, try not to think of CS as supporting either BM in a certain style. CS is the child's.
CS modification, unemployment & an honest couple reassessment are necessary.
DH probably has his image of himself tied to being a superior provider. Just remember this is not your debt. How would he pay if you suddenly were hurt? He's not thinking too clearly.
When I got laid off from a 6
When I got laid off from a 6 figure job 30+ years ago it took me almost a year to find another job in a HORRIBLE economy like today. And my salary when I finally got a job was approximately 1/3 of what I earned previously.
Sometimes it's a curse to have made so much. You have to convince people that you will be willing to take a lesser job. Of course that assumes that he is willing to take a lesser job.
I was willing to start anywhere as I knew that I could work my way back up again - which I did.
I wanted to post some kind of
I wanted to post some kind of supportive post. OP you are right, it is not on you to pay his CS but damn, reading all these figures..I feel poor!
I read a few more of your
I read a few more of your blogs. How the h*ll did BM2 after just three years of marriage manage to get the SD's college funds AND wipe out his retirement? Is it because he did part of the divorce/mediation without a lawyer ?
I was also concerned when I read your blogs on the pre-nup and the hiss he tossed. Lady, you make roughly $100,000 a year, a fraction of what your husband has been making. Yet reading about your own retirement, savings, and ability to manage yourself and future in your young 28yrs of life (only ten yrs as an adult at that)... you're in far better shape and much more economically sensible than your 'Super Bank Executor' husband .
You're an amazing young lady. Him? No so much.
Hi everyone, thank you for
Hi everyone, thank you for your input. I didn't want to get too far into our finances but I will clarify:
DH has more than 100K in his 401k, that is just the liquid "cash" that could easily be liquified. A large part of his retirement is a pension which starts paying upon retirement. During his first divorce to BM1 (after 14 years of marriage, many years before me), he gave her a lump sum of $800-900k in lieu of paying alimony. This wiped out an enormous portion of his retirement fund.
We have been together 4.5 years, We met shortly after he and BM2 separated, and after SS5 was born. BM2 had a secret boyfriend she had been emailing for a long time (he was deployed) and moved to Texas to be with him when he got back. When he and BM2 divorced, he paid her a lump sum of $160k to "buy her out" of the house that HE bought and she didn't put a penny into (so he could keep the house). He didn't have 160K laying around since he had recently bought a house, so that also came out of his retirement fund.
I can 100% assure you that he was laid off. He did not take a voluntary retirement and he was not fired. I know his boss well (who also got laid off in the re-org) and we all were out and discussed. I also have seen all of the paperwork along with the layoff. We actually got the HR dept. to extend his "end of work" date by a month so that we would have continuous insurance until our wedding, at which point I could add everyone onto mine.
As for the insurance, I pay for it all. I work for an insurance company, so I have excellent benefits. Per DH's divorce decrees, he is responsible to provide insurance for all skids. The decree even has a section saying if he loses his company sponsored insurance he must find some in the marketplace. BM1 is a freelance-type editor so she has no insurance to add SD15 and SD12 to. BM2 does have insurance through her company. However, if she added skids, DH would be responsible for reimburse her for the cost per her decree. It cost the same amount for me to add 2 skids or 4, so it just made sense to add everyone to my plan.
As for the medical supplies, BM1 and I coordinate on everything. She is wonderful! However, there are some things that only I as the policy holder can do. Since she is not technically an insured, some of the companies can not release info to her, nor can they take orders from her that have to be authorized by the insurance holder. She does everything she can and involved me when there is additional info or help needed from me. The initial set up when switching companies or plans is the big hassle. I recently started at a different company and have had to start all over and re-do everything I did after the wedding!
DH and I share a password manager, so I have access to everything. I have seen all of his bank accounts and retirement plans. I do all of the filing (in terms of paperwork organizing) for our taxes before it goes to the accountant, so I know what he has. He had a separate retirement account from when he worked for another company that had some stocks in it. This was not a 401K but a separate savings type account, so there was no penalty for cashing it in. That is now empty, as it has been used to pay for credit card (mostly trips to TX to see youngest skids). He has been using his savings to pay for the house and child support since the severance ran out.
I must admit, I am a bit surprised at people being upset about me paying "rent". I live here, so why shouldn't I contribute towards the mortgage? My name is on the house, so I own it as well. I didn't feel like writing a separate check to the mortgage company each month, so I just have money transferred into DH's account.
I took Tommar's advice and sat down with DH last night and showed him the numbers on all that I spend. I showed him my bank account and showed him all the little things just in the last 2 months alone I have done for skids. He started crying. He was very apologetic. He said he truly does appreciate all I do. He is calling the lawyer again Monday to move things forward and try to get this settled.
****I should clarify, he never once asked me to pay his child support*** He has said I never asked and never expected you to. I just preemptively told him I wouldn't and he felt like I was, like many of you said, running away in his time of need***
Many of you are spot on with the psychology. So much of DH's ego is tied to how he is as a provider and how he is at his job. DH grew up VERY poor in England (was homeless for some time living with relatives when his dad left the family). He worked and studied his ass off and graduated first in his class from University with his master's in Mechanical Engineering. He came to the US and made something of himself. He feels like he has worked his ass off for 30 years and it is all disappearing.
He never had a house growing up....in the beginning they were an army family that moved every year, then when his mom was single they were living in the projects or spare rooms at friends houses. Owning a house that he loves is something he has worked towards his whole life, and it is killing him to sell it. I try to keep him positive and remind him our tiny rental is only temporary, we will buy a house again someday.
Thank you all for your feedback. DH is a wonderful and kind person who I love very much. I may bitch about him from time to time, but overall he is great. He cooks for me all the time, brings me flowers for no reason, tells me he loves me many times a day. The reason his kids and I have such a close relationship is in large part to him. There was never a chance for disrespect, DH doesn't stand for it. It helps that I don't have a crazy BM as well and that she doesn't say bad things about me.
DH may be wonderful, but he certainly isn't perfect. He doesn't always say the right thing at the right time, and yesterday was certainly an example of that. We talked a lot last night and we are on the same page. He made me a delicious dinner, a delicious breakfast, and we are spending the whole day hanging out together.
All of this is a process. I never thought I'd be married to someone with kids. I never though my husband would get laid off 2 months before our wedding. I'm figuring it out as I go, but I truly appreciate everyone's input. Thank you for taking the time to read and comment. I hope everyone has a Happy Valentine's Day!
I forgot to mention about the
I forgot to mention about the car situation:
We used to have two cars. I had a sporty red VW Eos Convertible that I loved! I'd wanted a convertible my whole life and got one
DH has a BMW X3 that is almost paid off. We need a car that size due to the kids and the dogs. My car was impractical, but fun. When DH got laid off, we suddenly had 2 car payments and 1 income. I should note I have not paid a dime towards the X3 except for gas. Once we decided we were moving to Philadelphia, we decided to sell my car. I work from home when I'm not traveling, and DH is home all the time now that he is laid off. My car would sit for weeks on end in the driveway and it was just wasting money. We decided to sell it and go down to one car. In Philly, we only need 1 car, if that, so there was no point in paying 2 car payments, 2 parking spaces, etc. It's worked out great for us; we just have to plan a little in advance when it comes to driving the kids places.
We only have 1 car by choice due to downsizing our lifestyle. I still don't pay for the car, DH is paying that. When we sell the house, he will pay the rest of it off.
I am completely OK with this.
I am completely OK with this. I told DH if the kids need clothes, I will provide a gift card to a clothing store, or buy them ourselves, etc. I'm ok giving a small account, but I cannot and will not give $2500+ per woman.
I should also note that I
I should also note that I can't just send a check to the women. This is in the state of TX where everything is done through the state through wage garnishments or direct deposits. I guess the best way would be for me to transfer any $ to DH's account where it is taken out from.