Recognizing emotional manipulation
Either husb. is suicidal or he is emotionally manipulating me, and I can't figure out which it is. And I don't want to over react. Or under react, as the case may be.
Quick recap: I recently moved to AR for school b/c I have family here and as soon as we'd arrived in NC, husb. came down on orders for Afghanistan. No school and no social connection there + husb. leaving soon = no reason to be there when I can better my education here. Husb. went on a junk food spening spree recently that left us unable to pay our bills. We'd have been fine if he'd not done that. He also filled up his tank in that time period.
I made a choice as to which bill I wouldn't be paying, transferred $100 into husb.'s acct. with the understanding that he absolutely *must* moderate his spending. I withdrew the rest so he wouldn't be able to spend it. He has seen the accounts and is highly upset (specifically over the fact that he can't spend all he wants); he believes my father should cover all of my and my two DDs expenses for the time being. We already owe my father $1200.
On the 1st, our cable company double charged our account. 17 days ago, they said the extra money would be back in the acct w/I 10 days. My husb. just called them back today b/c the money was never put back. They said 10 more days. Also, husb. chose to do a partial DItY move. We got into housing by mid June. He was on leave until the end of June. He had ample time to turn in his weight tickets so he could be reimbursed for the goods we moved personally; he just turned them in yesterday. They said about 6 weeks.
So, husb. is upset. He doesn't think he can survive for two weeks on the $100 he has in his bank acct. He mentioned pawning a gun for like $300 or $400 to "give us some breathing room" (give him fast food money) until I get my student loan money in at which point he (I) can afford to get the gun out of pawn. I said no. That money is already accounted for in its entirety.
So, husb. gets mopey, says he's done. Since he can never do anything right in my eyes anyway, he is just done. He hangs up the phone and turns it off.
I can't call him or text him. He's not on any social media right now. He has depression. He's been suicidal before. I know no one there who can go check on him.
On the other hand, as far as manipulation goes, he learned from the best: MIL.
So, on the one hand, I feel like he's being a little bitch. If I needed to, I could make $100 stretch for 2 weeks for both me and my girls, but then again, I don't view cooking as beneath me. I feel like he's probably trying to emotionally manipulate me into saying, "Sure! Go put us $300 to $400 *more* into debt. I love being in debt. In fact, I get off reading high interest rate credit card disclosure statements."
On the other hand, there's this lingering worry that he might just use that gun otherwise. But if I call the MPs (b/c again, I have no contacts there) to do a wellness check, it'll get back to his CO.
Someone, talk sense. My brain is making none right now.
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Comments
He *is* overweight. He has
He *is* overweight. He has achalasia (sp?) which means his esophagus stopped working about two years ago. He had surgery to fix it, so he can swallow the food he eats now, but during the time after he developed it until they actually did the surgery, he got into the nasty habit of "eating" whatever he wanted since he was just going to regurgitate it, anyway.
And to your second question, no. His family live in GA (where he's from) which is 6 hr.s away. We just PCSd there. He knows people there (his co-workers), but I don't. The few I've met, I don't have phone numbers for.
P.S. When I left just over
P.S. When I left just over two weeks ago, there was enough food between dry goods and frozen food to last our family of four for *over* two weeks. So, I *know* there's food in the house; it's just not McDoubles.
I think he's trying to
I think he's trying to manipulate you. And honestly, and I don't mean to sound harsh or anything,if he's suicidal over not having money for fast food or you being willing to spend student loan money on his need to just Spend, he has problems that are totally out of your realm of fixable.
I agree with Rising, he's behaving like a total brat. He's supposed to be an adult. He's in the military, he has kids, he has a wife and a family,he needs to stop worrying about just himself and suck it up. Expecting your dad to foot. The bill for you and your girls is immature and ridiculous and incredibly entitled. He needs to get help for his spending addiction and be a man for his family instead of expecting his family to sacrifice for him so he can have instant gratification.
I don't believe I was clear,
I don't believe I was clear, so I'll try to respond to your misconceptions.
- I'm upset he spent money we *needed* for bills on things he *wanted*. I am not upset over filling his gas tank.
- So far as taking his family from him, we made that decision together. It wasn't all me.
- I did not leave him high and dry. I left him with enough for *four* people.
Also, understand that I, too, was in the military. I'm quite familiar with the difficulties of being without my family close by. I didn't deal with it by worrying my family members as to whether I was ok or not or by spending more than what I could afford to. I went the opposite route and lived off lettuce, ramen, and coffee so I could afford to send my daughter's care taker 3/4 of my check each month.
Speaking as someone who has
Speaking as someone who has been in your position, if he wants to kill himself he will. There is nothing you can do to stop someone who is intent on comitting suicide. Let him stew. People intent on actually killing themselves do not make threats so you can stop them.
Who supports you and the
Who supports you and the DDs?
I'm trying to understand this situation. You don't live with your DH, but with your parents? Because your DH was being deployed?
And you may or may not have income, but you control all the money your DH makes?
I think he's being a whiny cry baby over this....but I also think, if you're living completely separate lives, that you should let him figure this out on his own instead of managing his money for him.
I had income until we PCSd
I had income until we PCSd (end of May); I currently do not.
I live in my father's house; he does not charge me rent. Yes, partly b/c my husb. is being deployed. Also, partly b/c my staying there would prohibit me either from working or going to school (I'd have to choose one or the other).
I do control the money b/c DH has a spending problem coupled with a memory problem (TBI). If it were up to him, none of our bills would get paid. I cannot even begin to explain the number of times we had to pay late, overdraft, and/or bounced check fees before I took over the finances.
I would happily let him figure it out on his own if my name weren't attached to all our bills
So you have no income, don't
So you have no income, don't live with your DH, and didn't stick around to support him as we was deployed.
Yet, you control all of his money.
I'm sorry, but it looks like you're really focused on what YOU want, and you aren't very concerned about the WE in the marriage. You basically abandoned your DH to suit your needs, yet control his purse strings.
Why are you married to him??
Separate your finances and let the two of you stand on your own two feet. Move his bills into his name, move yours into yours. Funny how you say that "you" would pay off the pawn with "your" money, but it's perfectly ok for him to pay "your" stuff with "his" money. You appear to want your cake and eat it, too...
Not really. My first choice
Not really. My first choice was to stay; like I already said, the decision for me to move was made together.
But really, this discussion has moved far and away from what I needed.
I don't necessarily agree with what beaccountable said except that the military takes suicide very seriously as should I. My worry with contacting the MPs was as to whether or not it would hurt his career, but if that happens, it happens. I called the MPs; they're on their way.
I'm glad you called. It just
I'm glad you called.
It just sounds like you bailed at the "for worse" and moved on with what makes your life happy, leaving him in the dust. However, you still rely on and manage his earnings, which is just...crappy. :/
You bring up a good point. I
You bring up a good point. I focused too much on the money part, and not enough on the suicide part.
Why can't she contact his CO?
Surely there is someone on base who can check on him?
I dunno, OP doesn't sound very concerned about him. Maybe she doesn't really care about him.
My XH threatened suicide often. Sat on the train tracks, walked into a fast food joint waving a loaded gun threatening to kill himself... you name it. It gets exhausting always worrying about whether it will happen "this time."
I don't have a copy of his
I don't have a copy of his call roster, for one. But primarily, I don't want him in trouble if this is simply a manipulation tactic as opposed to something real.
No offense, but you have no
No offense, but you have no clue here.
I do know his family and how to contact them. They are 6 hours away *FROM HIM*. They also do not know his co-workers.
.
.
His TBI is from 2007; he
His TBI is from 2007; he passed out in the door of a plane, his chute didn't deploy, and he (obviously) couldn't pull his reserve. I assure you, I didn't leave him during the "for worse," but I damn sure thought about it many a time. It changed his personality, and for a long time he would fly into rages so bad that he'd black. He claims he doesn't remember them.
NC has amazing schools, for sure, but the closest one that *I* could have attended was over an hour drive each way unless I wanted to a) abandon my major, b) take out private education loans, or c)chosen not to work.
"I can say leaving for deployment leads to trouble ALWAYS." This statement really surprised me. *Most* wives I know who are unemployed when their spouses deploy "go home" to live with family. Admittedly, though, I only got to know a handful of them, all but one moved back to their home state while the unit was deployed.
Thank you to you and your
Thank you to you and your family for your service!
Your attitude of "stand by your man" and being such a supportive spouse is refreshing.
Why are you paying cable when
Why are you paying cable when no one is living anywhere to use it?
As I posted above, I called
As I posted above, I called the MPs just a few minutes ago. They're on their way to check on him right now.
We are a military family also
We are a military family also in NC. I would take his threats seriously. Call a chaplain. Go to ACS. Take advantage of free credit counseling and budgeting.
ummmm...just chiming in
ummmm...just chiming in here...this person has issues with his esophagus AND a TBI (traumatic brain injury)AND he's suicidal? WHY is he still in the military? My DH was shot...it did NOT penetrate his body armor BUT it did knock his vertebrae out of alignment. His back is fine but they STILL gave him a medical discharge. Also, my baby sister was given a medical discharge due to her bi polar disorder that was diagnosed 3.5 years after she joined. SO why is this guy still in the military?
Because he really *wants*
Because he really *wants* stay in. He has been offered a medical retirement/discharge three times (once after the TBI, once after his achalasia surgery, and once when he got to NC and told his dr. that he has achalasia). He has turned them all down. It was his dream to join long before he was able to. When the enlistment criteria loosened enough that he could join, he did.
interesting I didn't realize
interesting I didn't realize they gave you a choice now...I think my DH would be a lot happier if he could have stayed in...my sister too...she is miserable and hops from job to job because all she ever wanted was to be a marine...
LOL, I guess the "new"
LOL, I guess the "new" military lets you decide if you stay or get discharged.
It's mostly up to the
It's mostly up to the physician. They can initiate it even if the service member doesn't want it. In some cases, they do, but in my vicarious (through husb.) experience, if it isn't job prohibitive, they try feel out the service member.
Do they know he has a TBI,
Do they know he has a TBI, and their still sending him to Afghanistan? Wow. What's up with that. Or do they not know. I really hope he doesn't go. I know he probably is chomping at the bit to go, my SO had to try really hard and had to volunteer to go there, he would have been so disappointed if he didn't get a chance to go over there.
They *should* know. I'd be
They *should* know. I'd be super surprised if they didn't seeing as how he was treated for about 9 months at the TBI clinic on base.
And yes, he *really* wants to deploy. I don't get it; I spent a year in Iraq, and *I* thought it sucked, but he really likes going over there, so c'est la vie.
SO went to Iraq as well. He
SO went to Iraq as well. He also said it sucked. It may have had to do with him being staff. He hated being staff. In Afghanistan, he was a combat advisor and he loved that. His goal all along was to be in combat. He really wasn't trained to shuffle papers for officers he didn't particularly like. lol.
So I can also understand why your husband is dead set on going overseas, and perhaps that's why he's downplaying his medical issues. Sounds like the TBI is at the heart of the matter, and if that's the case, he really shouldn't be in charge of the money. And I'm sure it's hard for him to deal with the reality that due to his brain injury and memory problems, he cannot have the freedoms that most adults have, like the freedom to manage your own money. I'm sure that's frustrating for him.
I know other posters disagree, and I respect that, but based on the facts you presented, I would probably do the same. When my grandpa's alzheimer's set in, and my grandma, who was a SAHM, and had always let the man be in charge of all the money, learned that grandpa hadn't paid their taxes in three years, and had given thousands of dollars to Newt Gingrich, she had to take over the finances.
Thank you for your
Thank you for your understanding.
My husb. is a mechanic, but when he's deployed he works recovery which puts him in combat situations which he really likes. He wanted to go in as infantry (not sure why he didn't), and wants to drop a ranger packet now because the actual combat is what he really likes. I think that's why he likes being deployed.
I'm not sure where all the
I'm not sure where all the judgment came from, but I didn't get all the control freak wife stuff from OPs post. I think she knows her husband better than anybody, and her description sounds a lot like emotional manipulation. She took away his drug, and he's now pitching a fit. He just sounds like an addict, and his drug of choice is money or weirdly enough, junk food. (Although, sweets are really my drug of choice too, although I'm not a binge eater, I'm a grazer.)
My first thought too was emotional manipulation. That's what addicts do when you take their drug away. I think you did the right thing by calling the MPs. I don't think he is in any shape to be deployed, so I hope they nix the deployment until he is in a better place psychologically. I hope they run a drug test on him too, because with this type of behavior, I always wonder if there's some type of underlying chemical dependency. I've read that with compulsive behavior, there's could be underlying drug or substance abuse problem. Couldn't hurt to look into that.
Also, I wonder if he has a blood sugar problem. I have one to some degree, hence, why I self-medicate with food. And if I don't make the effort to eat healthy, I'll be weak, grouchy, and crave a real Coke, not diet, or ice cream. And my sister's blood sugar problem is even worse than mine. She is a wonderful person but can get beyond mean and impatient and grouchy if her blood sugar gets too low, and she has to have junk food. One time we got into the biggest fight because I wouldn't loan her money for a cheeseburger. And she struggles even more with her weight than I do.
Maybe there's an underlying medical issues, some type of extreme hypoglycemia, or something, an extreme version of what I have. Who knows.
But I would have some real concerns about him being deployed when he's in this state of mind.
And OP, you need to protect yourself, you can't hold yourself responsible for this type of extreme self-centered behavior, your are his wife, not his dog to kick, and not his nurse maid. He's just pissed you took his money away, and deep down he knows you have to be in control of it, but he's still just pissed. IMO.
It's HIS money that she is
It's HIS money that she is taking away. SMH.
Um, I am SMH too. I thought
Um, I am SMH too. I thought when you get married, it's the husband and wife's money, unless the wife is just considered to be an indentured servant. Especially with a military wife, some who may or may not have careers of their own. And sounds like OP is trying to change that by going back to school.
And before I get flamed, I know there are military wives out there who just don't feel like working, and want to stay home and do nothing, at least for 10 years so they can automatically get part of the husband's retirement, and then hand over divorce papers and move onto the next gullible military husband for another 10 years. That happened to my SO. Although I think that's changing.
Anyway, I didn't get anything from the OP's post that she's "one of those", and really don't care. Why would she bother posting on here if she wasn't concerned.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Including me.
Sure, it's all "our" money
Sure, it's all "our" money when you get married. She doesn't want to pay off the pawn with "her" money. That's what she said. So I totally disagree with the "what his is ours and what's hers is hers" philosophy.
And...they aren't a family. She left because it didn't fit with what she wants. She left him alone to deal with his life and deployment all on his own so she could have the major she wanted.
It sounds very one sided and selfish to me.
I have nothing against SAHMs. It's just that this poster is controlling the purse strings while walking out on her husband and going back to live with her parents.
Again: the decision for me to
Again: the decision for me to move here was mutual. As in, made together.
The school loan money is just that, it's for school. If I use it to pay for a pawned item, I still have to come up with it elsewhere. He doesn't *need* to pawn anything.
I control the money b/c husb. can't. He's not good at it, and he forgets things.
I do the finances with DH's
I do the finances with DH's paycheck too because he would treat it like a 12 year old with a paper route. As it is when he gets paid he eats out for breakfast and lunch til he's out of money even though I buy lunch stuff specifically for him.
If your DH willingly WANTED
If your DH willingly WANTED you (and his child!) to move away from him, then you have big, big problems. It sounds like this was a decision that you wanted and talked him into agreeing with...
Either that, or he has no interest in having his family in his life. What man says, sure, take my kid away???
You and I both know the school loan money will exceed your actual cost of tuition/books. It also covers "living expenses."
Thank you, you are very
Thank you, you are very sweet.
One is mine alone. One is
One is mine alone. One is ours together.
So you took this man's child
So you took this man's child away from him??? All because of a major you wanted in school??? And because you didn't have enough friends in your new town???
:jawdrop:
I think it's time I stop posting on your blog. I'm just...stunned. This whole situation sounds so selfish and benefitting only YOU.
My major is Physics. It's
My major is Physics. It's seemingly rare in the south. It's also very specialized. I can't just swap it out for business or pre law without essentially starting school all over again. Either it or my income would have gone on hold.
*WE* (together) determined that the short term sacrifice of being separated while I finish it out was worth the long term benefit of my having a more stable career with a higher income. Which benefits the *whole* family.
I certainly did not take "this man's child away from him;" where she would live was part of the discussion. Since he will not be home for two months this year for two different field exercises (one which is out of state) and will deploy next year, *WE* decided it was better if she was with me as opposed to his having to find a short term care provider for two months and then bring her to AR early next year anyway.
Your income DID go on
Your income DID go on hold.
Matter of fact, it went OFF.
Yes, because we had to move.
Yes, because we had to move.
Just because I don't have a job this nano second doesn't mean I'm not looking and don't plan on getting one. Nor does it mean that I wasn't looking before I came here. I didn't, however, *get* a job while I was there which ultimately played a role in the decision for us to move.
You did everything correct.
You did everything correct. He can't handle the cash, don't let him. Tbi's do a lot of weird shit to people. Eating junk food may be tbi related not digestive.
Should he deploy? Probably not. Can anyone stop someone hell-bent on doing something, hell no. Does the military really care to stop a body with messed up brain? Nope. If he can follow orders and shoot straight he's good to go.
Is he mentally a grown up? Not with a tbi. Trying to manipulate by threat of suicide is very high school. Most times it's just a threat, but it has to be checked out. Unfortunately in the military you're never quite sure how it will be handled, whether by just checking or a discharge. She was right to be cautious about calling mp's.
*sigh* All of the decisions
*sigh*
All of the decisions we made regarding the move were mutual.
He is much better at handling his military duties than he is at finances because, frankly, he wants to be. He knows he can't remember well, so he writes everything down or sends text messages. I get weird text messages all the time with a follow up message explaining he just needed that info saved on his phone for later. He doesn't make the same effort with finances. That's really just all there is to it.
He has a history of depression. He knows I know this and uses it against me at times. Hence, my post.
I'm really just through with defending myself, here, so I won't post anymore about that.
So, with all this bashing that's going on, I'm sure you're all dying to know how the welfare check turned out. My hunch was correct. Husb. is fine; he knew if he made a veiled threat and hung up like that, that I'd be worried and try to call back, so he turned his phone off. The MPs do have to report the incident to his COC; he'll let me know how that goes on Monday.
This alone is proof that he's
This alone is proof that he's mentally unstable. He needs help. Healthy people don't do that stuff...
We have debt that we took on
We have debt that we took on while I was working. I'm not right now, so the budget is tight. His rent is paid.
Yes, he will make more during deployment, but that doesn't help right now.
Yes, he needs mental health help, but doesn't see that and won't seek it out.
I haven't talked him out of
I haven't talked him out of it or even tried, and I never will. That is a decision that I leave firmly in his hands, and he knows that I support him whatever he wants to do including in the future if/when he decides he's done. For now, he likes his job, and he enjoys his deployments.
Not really sure where you got
Not really sure where you got the impression that his TBI is untreated. He was treated for it after it happened. When his progress plateaued, he was released back to duty. But it's not like they just go away when treatment ends, and he'll never be exactly the same person he was prior. There are literally thousands of TBIs in the army every year; they're treated and released back to duty in all but the most severe cases.
I also to went to school full
I also to went to school full time, raised my DDnow11, and worked full time, etc. I don't *have* to live with my dad. I could live in Raleigh where the closest school to where my DH is stationed is located and where we'd have to cover both his rent and rent in a second place. I could have stayed behind in Security and done the same thing. Physics is not a major that is offered at every school, so staying *with* him and continuing my education was not possible. Anyway around it, I would not be able to stay in the same geographic area as husb *and* finish college.
TBI is from 2007. TBI clinic helped him as much as they could, and released him back for full duty a long time ago. Two deployments ago, even. His gastric issues are controlled through a surgery he had in 2011 and medication he takes. It's not like he's dying and I just callously left him to waste.
He spent their bill money on
He spent their bill money on doughnuts, I don't get why she's getting so much crap from people for trying to save their finances
yeah I don't think I've ever
yeah I don't think I've ever seen an over weight service man.
LMAO I went on a blind date
LMAO I went on a blind date with a guy who bragged about being a Navy Reservist, he was so fat that they released him several years early because he couldn't make weight and this was when NO ONE got early release. I was not amused that my friends showed his pictures from when he joined and not after he had been in a year or two. He still likes to talk about the Navy as if he was AD and deployed in dangerous situations...LMAO He was a paper pushing clerk.
LMAO! Tall enough to walk to
LMAO! Tall enough to walk to shore...good one.
My dh has a tbi. He can't
My dh has a tbi. He can't handle money worth shit. He spends and spends and spends. So I keep a tight fst over our money, yes, even HIS money because it is in his and our best interest.
I'm not sure why everyone is giving her shit. She didn't abandon him to go have an affair- but rather they came to a decision for her to better herself and their family. Lots of couple- especially military ones live apart for a time.
As far as the military deploying someone with any sort f condition? Happens all the time. They deployed my dh with PTSD, degenerative disc disease, and kidney stones. He probably could have stayed but he, too, wanted to go.
Thanks, I appreciate the
Thanks, I appreciate the understanding. I feel like a lot of people commenting don't necessarily understand the concept of short term sacrifice for long term benefit.
Look, neither of you
Look, neither of you understand why we made the decisions we did. That's obvious, and that's fine. Unfortunately, it's not like I can just take a semester off. Missing one semester, at this point, could actually put me behind two years as certain classes, which are pre-reqs for other other classes, begin to be offered only one semester each year or every other year. If you don't understand that, either, then there's no more explaining I can do.
My husb is fully aware of how it all works. This wasn't a snap decision. It wasn't made after one discussion - or even two or three. We considered all options and outcomes, and chose what was best for our family. If you disagree, so be it. He obviously didn't.
I used to go to my dad's Navy
I used to go to my dad's Navy reunions - they were almost all fat at 80.
But when my 6' tall dad got shore duty (his ship was sunk) after 3 1/2 years in the Pacific during WWII he only weighed 140 pounds. Of course the navy was totally different back then. They still had major sea battles.
But here's what I really find funny - during his 6 years as regular Navy (not war time enlistee)he never was issued a gun nor trained with one.
Thanks, dtzy. Honestly, I
Thanks, dtzy. Honestly, I doubt husb could even tell you what he spends money on if he wanted to. When I called him on it, he denied he'd spent anything at first. Then when I told him he'd spent over $150 at McD alone, he tried to argue. I read him all the individual dates and charges, then he says, "Well, don't remember going to McD that much." *sigh* Of course not, dear.