We're Never Good Enough Woes
Hey, all,
First time poster here! Just for backstory: I have been a step-parent to a beautiful SD for 8 years now. She is currently 10 y/o. When she was younger we had 50/50 custody, but when she entered school we began an every-other weekend situation that is beyond my control. My husband and I also have a son, 5 y/o. We have a civil relationship with her BM and her husband, but not a super communicative one, which my husband is unwilling to change.
Since the beginning we've struggled with a constant competition that takes place in SD's mind. Everything at her BM's looks better, sounds better, tastes better, is more fun, etc. even when things are the exact same. While my husband and I both have good jobs, BM and her husband make much more money than us, and overall live a life we can't afford to live, which SD has grown accustom to. Since she is now only with us 4-6 days per month, this feeling of superiority has only increased as has her distance from us emotionally. While we don't have as much money as them, we have a wonderful, comfortable life. We try our best to make sure we do fun things on the weekends she is with us so she never misses out and to be supportive and there for her always.
This past year she has begun making comments, that in her own kid way I know aren't ill-intentioned, but hurt our feelings. For example, "My parents haven't watched that," insinuated that we aren't her parents. Or, "The one I have at my house is better," insinuating that she doesn't belong at "our" house although we have done everything in our power to ensure she feels just as at home at both houses. We also ensure that there is as much equality as possible between her and our son in all matters.
Last father's day I got a gift for my husband from all of us, which included pictures of both kids. When I presented it to her she flat out rejected it and said she didn't want it to be from her but... she didn't do anything for him either (which she had always done with her BM in the past). After admitting she didn't do anything for him, she spent a long time gushing over the father's day presents she bought for her step-dad right in front of my husband. I tried to explain to her how that would hurt his feelings and she asked me to take her to the store to buy him something else for father's day, day-of, then wrote (unbeknownst to me) "Sorry I forgot about you on father's day" inside of his card.
She also shows little appreciation for the things we do with her and for her. When we buy her something, she likes something else better. When we go somewhere, something else is way more fun. It's not just with us either. She does this with our immediate family as well, always insuinuating that anything associated with her mom and that side of the family is better (which I've heard from others is exactly how her mom is, so the apple doesn't fall far from the tree).
I feel that now that she is 10, she is old enough to be sat down with to have an overall discussion on the ramifications of her words. She is a very smart, sweet girl, and has never outright said a mean thing about anyone but her attitude towards us is slowly tearing us apart inside. When I discussed this idea with my husband he neither supported or rejected it. My husband internalizes these things but never discusses them with her. He is relatively passive about these kinds of matters and likes to take a back seat to acting on what's bothering him regarding his daughter and his ex. I would like him to join this conversation and think it would be more powerful with him involved but I know that won't happen. I'm on the fence about what to do and would love some opinions:
A. Do you think 10 is old enough to have a conversation of this nature?
B. Do you think this conversation be beneficial or harmful to our relationship with her?
I've got to say
I've got to say, she doesn't sound like a sweet girl. She sounds like a Mean Girl. She's 10 years old and is old enough to know that if you can't say anything nice, keep your mouth shut.
I'm sure someone wiser will be along soon with advice.
She's being intentional.
She's being intentional.
Sitting down with her won't change her mindset. Reality is she lives at her BM the majority of the time, so yes, she will consider that "her home." It also seems like she is *choosing* to not be included in your DHs version of "one big happy family". All you can do is extend an invitation, she doesn't have to accept it.
Honestly, this sounds a lot like my SD13. Most recently, she declined getting a Christmas tree with DH, myself, and DS2 because "she was tired." She actively chooses to not include herself in our family and I am over feeling bad about it for both myself & DH. I am not going to force a "sibling" relationship between her and my son especially if it is not wanted.
IMHO
Oh, don't get me wrong, I
Oh, don't get me wrong, I definitely understand her feelings. AND, if this is how she feels, I can't change that. I've accepted that, but there are things in life that don't necessarily need to be said, or more effective and constructive ways to express our feelings. She genuinely likes being a part of family activities, even if she makes comments about them being not as good as what goes on at her mom's. She adores and is protective of her little brother and he adores her just as much. I do really believe she doesn't realize how some of her words impact others. She is smart but can be... aloof at times, for lack of a better word. She has proven to me that she can be mindful when she really tries, but as she ages, it's feels less acceptable to blurt out every thought and feeling. I wouldn't expect anything less of my son, and he already embodies these ideas because we have instilled appreciation in him. She does not get that as much as her BM's and don't have as much time with her to work on those skills because of our arrangement.
SD13 used to say things like
SD13 used to say things like "your house" to DH. He would absolutely try to correct her and explain that she lives there too, so it hurt his feelings for her to say that. In general, SD doesn't take criticism well and gets defensive. Hopefully your SD isn't like that, but just in case I would have your DH have that conversation just in case.
I think she's old enough. But
I think she's old enough. But, if your DH isn't on board and participating, it prob won't go well. Hopefully he will be. If she really is a "nice girl", maybe it will help her grow as a person and be more polite and empathetic. If nobody ever tells her or teaches her, she will never learn.
Also, to add, they really don
Also, to add, they really don't learn these things on their own. My youngest has, what i call, an abrasive personality. If i didn't correct them, i can only imagine how bad it would be. It has already caused my kid some interpersonal problems. I had to sit them down and lovingly say "It's not them, it's you." and explain how their words were taken as hurtful or annoying. Multiple times. It has helped.
I agree with you. At the end
I agree with you. At the end of the day, setting aside our hurt feelings, I genuinely love this little girl and want her to grow up to be a wonderful human being. I want her to understand how to be appreciative and kind to others. I want her to be able to think about others' feelings and not just her own and be able to foster good relationships with others.
U need to tell her. It coul
U need to tell her. It coul also be deep down she's insecure about her place in her father's life. and so she tries to compensate for those feelings by acting like this. The more her father is passive, the worse her feelings will get and the more their relationship will deteriorate.
I'm not sure if that's what
I'm not sure if that's what is happening, but I can't rule it out either. It's definitely food for thought. I do want to clarify that he is not passive towards his daughter or his relationship with her, just when it comes to addressing concerns that have anything to do with his own feelings. I am a huge advocate for their relationship and and will do anything to enhance all of our relationships. Thank you for the feedback.
I think that she is old
I think that she is old enough. I also think it can be done BY HER FATHER in a kind way. Your husband MUST have this conversation.. maybe with you present.. but mostly silent..
Since she is at her mom's most of the time.. I think her saying "my house" is someting you should probably NOT highlight.. because this isn't about you guys necessarily.. this is raising her to be empathetic and have a broader understanding of how her words could be negatively recieved.
So.. the next time she says one of those lines.. her dad needs to talk to her soon after to use it as an example..
Some themes she needs to hear.
1. Not everyone has the ability to spend money the way her mom does and people don't like to hear someone criticizing something that they got. They are happy with it.. you need to be happy for them.. and respect that may be the best they can do.
2. It can hurt someone's feelings if they go out of the way to do something nice for you and you criticize it. Even if they just give you a piece of gum, you should thank them and be nice to them.. just as much as they had given you a BAG of candy. If people don't see you as grateful for what you get.. they will stop giving things to you.
3. People don't like to spend time with people that brag about the things that they have. Really rich people don't do that.. only people who "think" they are rich..
4. Before you say things.. think about it.. Is it TRUE? is it Kind and is it Necessary? Pointing out that you don't like a classmates ugly shoes is not necessary.. and not kind either. But, telling someone they have food in their teeth quietly may be necessary.. so they don't go around all day with their smile full of spinach! Try to think how you might feel if someone said something like that to you?
I agree 100% that it should
I agree 100% that it should be DH having the conversation. This isn't something to take on solo.
I like the way you suggested
I like the way you suggested to approach the topics. Thanks for the suggestions!
More like C: She is an evil little shit.
She knows exactly what she is doing. Stop ascribing quality to her that she does not possess. She is not a sweet little girl.
Time to shut down any mention of her life with BM when she is in your home. Be direct. Just tell her that her comments are mean and she is trying to hurt her father, you, and her little brother and she will not be allowed to do that any longer.
She does not get to decide if her father, you and the home you provide are good enough. She is a kid. She is held to standards of behavior and standards of performance. She gets no say in shit for anything. Kind well behaved quality kids that perform to the standards of behavior and performance defined by quality parents certainly can earn more say. She... isn't earning that priviledge.
Her behavior isn't good enough and you and daddy need to be giving her that message firmly.
So stop giving her power, control, or any say at all. Shut her mean, toxic, evil shit down any time she tries it.
Birth is the right time to implement the zero tolerance for evil manipulative bullshit model. 10yo is long past old enough to be held to standards of decency. Kids raised with the standards model from day one, do not behave as your SD behaves.
IMHO of course.
I respectfully agree to
I respectfully agree to disagree. In forums you're hearing one part of one concern and not embodying the whole person, which is just the nature of the medium. We clearly have very different views on children and on parenting, but I appreciate the opinion. I did ask for them after all.
My mom died when I was 5 and I understand how important a mother is in a girl's life. I would NEVER tell her she couldn't talk about her mom, or to tell us about all the fun things she does. For the most part her mom is a good mom, and I'm glad she lives a great life and get to have so many experiences. I want to hear about them, I want to be a part of her whole life, not just the part that happens at my house because all of it makes up her whole person. But I agree that she needs to be more respectful about it.
There is always more to the story.
There is no doubt about that. However, as you mentioned, we are in a one dimensional environment where we have only the information provided to make a ruling on and respond to.
I applaud your comprehensive engagement in your SD's life. I did the same while my SS-31 was young and under a CO and visitation schedule. His two home blended family life started when he was 2yo. His mom and I met when he was 15mos old. We married the week before he turned 2yo. In our blended family reality, we were the professional side of the equation while the other side were mulitigenrational abject failures, manipulative, and toxic.
When SS would come home to his real life after visitation, it was a process to return him to behavioral and performance reality. Your SD is blessed that you and DH and BM and StepDad are all performing viable adults.
While I have no direct knowledge of it, I am sure that my SS had a similar though decidedly toxic experience to that of your SD. The differences in his life with us and with the paternal side of his gene pool were marked. His full time home was calm, respectful, and stable. He was raised in mature marriage unlike his experience on visitation. We had a long distance visitation schedule where he was with us all but 7wks per year (5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring) if the SpermClan took any visitation at all that year.
We demanded respectful behavior from SS at home and while he was on visitation. His temperment is that he is very empathetic and very respectful of his elders. Sadly, we had to work with him to be aware of toxicity and to not tolerate it when he was targeted by it. That of course angered the SpermClan adults when he called them on lies, manipulation, theft of his things and his money, etc....
We wanted SS to share his experiences with the other side of his blended family. We required that he do it respecfully. So, my advice to you is somewhat hipocritical though it is based on SD's described snarky and judgemental behaviors. We did not tolerate judgemental nasty behavior at all.
We did not have the experience you are having because we started our family (SS is an only child in our marriage) when he was a toddler and did not ever tolerate the mean that your SD expresses.
My world has little grey. It is pretty much black and white. My focus is pragmatic elemination of problems including kid behaviors that deviate from the standard that I expect. IMHO, the proof is in the outcomes. My SS is an adult of character, honor and quality. He is a man of standing in his profession and his community. Sadly, his three younger Spermidiot spawned half sibs by two other baby mamas are following the multigenerational example that we battled to save SS from. #2 is on the dole, #3 is in prison, #4 is not far behind the inmate. That SS has this in his life is heartbreaking to me.
I hope you can structure and enforce the standards of behavior for your SD that deliver the results you want. Filtering SD's judgemental behaviors and protecting your DS from that I am sure is important to you and the father of both kids.
Good point
I appreciate the supportive words. I'm sorry to hear that you had to deal with toxic individuals on the other side. I do consider myself very lucky. We have many people around us who have really negative relationships and struggle with co-parenting. The four of us keep out of each others' business, are civil and agree in most aspects when it comes to SD.
Too bad BMs money can't buy
Too bad BMs money can't buy SD a personality.
If she's impossible to please, why bother trying? You're rewarding bad behavior. Brats don't deserve more, they deserve less. Stop doing anything for her or with her. If she asks why, tell her.
You're impossible to please.
You don't like anything.
Nothing is good enough for you.
You don't appreciate anything.
You're ungrateful.
You're rude.
You're spoiled.
I'm not one for giving up.
I don't want to give up trying. I admit, I have moments that I feel like this, and I have those harsh conversations with her in my head, but she is still a child. A child that did not ask to be in a split family situation. A child that cannot change the attitudes of her other role models. If I give up, she definitely won't have a chance at improving. Giving up also brings me very little positive and a whole lot of negative. I might not put out as much effort, but giving up will result in a damaged relationship with not just her but everyone around me including my husband, my family, her family, my husband's family, all people I very much love and care about who are good people. I might be spared some hurt, but it will bring me a whole lot of hurt in other ways.
IMHO.
This is not giving up. It is focusing on her behavioral issues with the intent of applying effective discipline and modifications to correct her behaviors. Often creating a state of abject misery is one of the few effective methods for correcting brat behavior. Zero tolerance works. The younger you can start the modifications, the better. 10yo is far past old enough.
Contrary to what the prevailing winds seem to stipulate these days, spoiling, hugging, coddling, and talking a brat through this kind of crap is almost entirely ineffective. In the rare case where it is effective, it takes way too long and is far too painful for the victims of the brat's behaviors.
The improvements in SD's behaviors and personal qualities could increase significantly resulting in improved relationships with your SO and the ILs. For you, and for her. If they no longer have to naively defend her because you are effectively parenting her. Since apparently her father is struggling. I get that it is nearly impossible to improve the parenting in the blended family opposition. That does not require abandanding standards based parenting in our home/family/marriage as a SParent.
Though as SS advanced in character, honor, and personal quality, his relationships with the blended family opposition definatley did not improve. As SS matured and advanced his knowledge of the facts of the CO and the SpermClan history they did spend far more time under their slime covered rock at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool rather than lying, manipulating, and PASing when SS was in SpermLand for visitation. This also reduced the pre-visitation behavioral degradation and post visitation detox that the three of us dealt with in the earlier years of the CO/Visitation schedule. Set and enforce your family behavioral and performance standardfs from teh second she arrives until the second she returns to the BM's. Lather.... rinse.... repeat. It is easier on everyine including the Skid. In our experience anyway. Though we were the CP side of our equation.
Take care of you, take care of your family. Guide SD to be an engaging part of that.
What she does is complaining,
What she does is complaining, if you really think about it.
So every time she does it, cut the activity short. Tell her she is complaining and it spoiled the mood. Don't back down if she argues.
Is she old enough? Yes. The
Is she old enough? Yes. The conversation should come from her father. Just because she is being taught to act this way by her mother, doesn't mean that it should be tolerated in your home. Not everyone can afford the same things, and not everyone has the same tastes. Dad needs to straighten her out and now. My parents had different rules in their households, so did my grandparents, other family, friends parents, etc. There is no reason why your husband can't let her know that what she is doing is hurtful. She may not know. I tend to think she does, but she needs to know that it is unacceptable in your home.
If she doesn't listen, then she can get nothing and like it. Nothing seems to be good enough for her anyway, so why keep trying?
OP, I applaud your patience
OP, I applaud your patience with your SD. You're being too kind....she is NOT a sweet little girl, not from your description of her behavior anyway.
I agree with others.... her Dad needs to sit her down and have the chat with her about respecting other people's feelings. She's plenty old enough to understand it.
After all, your bio will be influenced by her as he grows, and you don't want him emulating that attitude do you?
Just to note...
I just want to note that its not that we have never addressed any of this behavior, but we haven't sat down and had a full conversation about the long-term impact and accumulation of her behavior. I do my best to bring it up in real time, though I am human and sometimes miss opportunities for one reason or another.
She used to constantly compare me to her mother. My mom dresses like this, my mom likes that, my mom would do it this way, etc. I addressed it with her and we discussed that her mom and I are different people. That it is not fair of her to expect me to be like her mom or vice versa and that there are different ways to do things, which does not make one or the other right. Overcoming this was a process and took time but ultimately she learned to be more mindful about it and appreciate my personality and differences for what it is. Because of this I am hopeful that this could end the same way. I just want to make sure she is at an age and maturity level to ensure the conversation isn't lost on her, or done in a way that would result in her giving up on her relationship with us.
It seems that most of the responses are in agreement that she is old enough, which is great to hear. I've also appreciated the different recommendations on how to approach these topics with her in an effective way. I also see that most people also agree that her father should be part of the conversation so I do plan to work on getting him on board as well.
Keep us updated on how the
Keep us updated on how the conversation goes if/when it happens.