Financial protections for yourself when you worry your spouse will spend too much of the family's income and nest egg on his adult kids ...
If you’ve been married long enough to know that there are some financial points that you’ll never agree on with re to your adult stepchildren (for example, weddings, down payments, spending for future grandchildren), how do you protect yourself financially?
We already don’t have any shared credit cards and we file taxes separately. Still, we have other shared obligations, like our mortgage, and the cost of raising our young children. He makes more than I do, but he has so many other priorities, including financial care for his adult kids and aging parents (my parents are well off and will never need financial help). Is divorce the only option? I assume if we divorced, we’d try to continue to live together as a family for our young children. The divorce would just be to protect me and our mutual kids from his overspending on his adult kids and extended family. I guess I could ask for a post/nup in lieu of a divorce. Anyone have insight on how that would/should go down?
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Check with a lawyer about a
Check with a lawyer about a legal separation. Not every state allows for them. That's what I did. Kept the health benefits but everything else was separated.
Divorce sounds drastic
Divorce sounds like a drastic problem solver, especially with young children. Do you work? Is it possible for you two to sit down and discuss finances? Is he a high earner? If so, altho the spending on his kids and parents aggravates you, it might be feasible. Is there some area of your financial needs that isn't being met? Does he have retirement savings?
When my DH overspent subsidizing BM, I was livid. Certainly nobody else was subsidizing me. But, more than anything, I felt jealousy that his assets (not just money but time, attention and caring) were going toward this woman. I'm not saying he was right but the truth is, he could afford it and it bought him peace of mind.
Before going thru divorce, I'd explore other options. You made a good start by posting here.
thanks
Yes, I work. I'm a high enough earner to support myself and kids alone. He's a much higher earner so we live a better lifestyle with him than without him, to a degree. He has retirement savings, though not nearly enough to support the things he wants to support when he's retired. For context, this includes supporting adult children (a lot of support during college for the most expensive schools, plus considerable incidental expense, plus he talks about helping them with downpayments etc), supporting his parents (pays their mortgage), country club dues, car payments for him(because he's always had one), etc. My need that isn't being met is a sense of trust and financial security. For example, due to his age he'll be retired when our kids start college, but he's not contributing to their 529 accounts, only I do that, and he's no longer saving for his own retirement. No doubt divorce is the option of last resort, but I have a legitimate concern that he'll spend down all our assets on other family members and I'll be SOL with our little kids.
Yes - please consult an
Yes - please consult an attorney.
If you don't have a prenup, a post nup can help. It helped me get out of my 2nd marriage expeditiously.
Long story short, my XH2 earned the same as me but spent money ridiculously. I still had the home I raised my kids in and he got so excited talking about how we were going to spend the profits on the sale of my home to improve our home. Not so fast buddy. His 4 kids kept moving in and out of our 4 bedroom rancher (smaller than you'd think). They destroyed things, struggled to keep jobs and barely graduated high school. He couldn't say no to them and wanted me to contribute more to the household so he could spend more. He was enraged when I refused to pay 1/2 the utilities (me: 1, him: 5) or half the groceries. I married him and wasn't planning to feed and support 5 men.
So, I used selling my house as leverage to get a post nuptial. You see, we bought OUR house before we married and while I still had my house. We had an agreement that while I still had a mortgage, he would pay the mortgage on OUR house (because I wasn't living there full time). Believe me, him paying the mortgage was cheaper than paying rent anywhere else. But he wanted me to pay 1/2 of the $1500 a month mortgage, but that wouldn't happen until I got rid of my mortgage.
I presented him with a post nuptial that included him waiving any claim to ANY of the profit from the house I had raised my kids in and had owned for 24 years. I also added that we each would waive any rights to each other's retirement accounts and spousal support/alimony.
He signed. I sold my house and move into OUR house fully. That's when he really showed his ass as a bitter, resentful spender who was angry I would not give more money so he could indulge his kids.
After one frightening outburst (and plenty of abuse prior to that), I left him and bought my own house. We sold OUR house and he bought his own. He filed for divorce a few months later and the post nuptial made the process very quick and easy - 90 days.
In the post nuptial, you should require him to maintain a life insurance policy on himself that will cover you and your minor children in case he passes. I would also have him invest a certain amount of his pay into a retirement account or trust for you so that you have something to tap into if he doesn't save enough to live off in the golden years.
Some people even require their spouses to save a dollar for their joint bio kids for every dollar they spend on their other children.
Additionally, in a lot of places, anything you inherit (you said your parents are well off) will remain only yours unless you intermingle it with marital funds. Do not intermingle.
Thank you
This is fantastic advice. I'm wondering why he'd agree to terms like the life insurance policy and the trusts, though I think they are fantastic ideas. What leverage do I have?
You have two little kids with
You have two little kids with him, that right there is child support and you can fight for enough to keep them in the same life style he gave the older ones.
And request a stipulation
And request a stipulation that he contributes to their college funds, too. I'm shocked he isn't.
Your leverage is leaving him
Your leverage is leaving him over the lack of trust and security. What you'd be asking for is completely reasonable. He should be carrying a life insurance policy with you as beneficiary (a substantial one if he's a very high earner), he should be contributing enough to his retirement that you will have sufficient assets to live on after his retirement and also to support your children, if they are still minors or dependent students, and he should be contributing to your children's college funds, also. I'm sure you'd get the life insurance policy, along with child support, in a divorce. Him buying the life insurance policy, contributing to his retirement and setting up college funds is probably a lot easier and less expensive than a divorce.
Good point!
Good point!
Divorce might be a good option because you could collect child support to add to the college funds and/or get him to agree in the settlement to pay for college. Additionally, you could get your share of any accumulated wealth to this point and insulate yourself from his spending.
I know it's not preferable, but maybe if he understands that you might be awarded these things in a divorce, he might be amenable to putting it in a post nuptial and staying married.
Follow up
Thanks for the advice. We actually discussed last night while I had the nerve and the conversation went well. We agreed to fully fund the college accounts by the end of this year. No money will be spent on "adult" expenses beyond college until our little kids' accounts are fully funded. We also agreed no money can be spent on downpayments for any kids unless our mortgage is fully paid off. This is a good start. He carries a small life insurance policy for me. However, from my perspective, life insurance is not a big issue if college is funded and our mortage is paid off.
Why?
Why does he feel like his older "kids" deserve more and better than your shared children?
Idk, this would really bother me (and one of the many reasons I left my formerSO).
Right?
He shouldn't be considering downpayments for the older kids if he hasn't contributed a penny to the younger ones' college funds! It's as if he thinks the younger ones are solely your responsibility, OP, and not his. Time for a shock for the dear man. Start with seeing a financial advisor because you are worried about his future if he keeps spending his money like water. He needs help defining his priorities.
good point
It's always bothered me, too. I think he thinks he's invincible and he wants to do everything for everyone and thinks he has more time to take care of our young children. We agreed things need to change with regard to planning for our young children. I hope I can follow up in a year or three and report back that his actions lined up with the promises.
I would have the white board discussion with him outlining
that he either cuts off his adult children other than a mutually agreed amount and structure (college, wedding, etc..) and remind him that his adult failed family progeny have been raised and it is the turn of the children that you and he have together to have his support.
As for providing for his parents.... That is not his responsibility, nor is it yours, and for damned sure it is not the responsibility of your children.
My DW is the eldest of 4 children and we are the only ones who could help my ILs. My ILs have always been on the ragged edge of poverty and not much more than a half a sneeze from destitution. Even their daughter will not waste a single Cent to help them as to help just fosters their ability to dive deeper into their lifelong penchant for instant gratification. My DW's three younger sibs have very little ability to help, yet they all keep putting themselves into financial hardship by giving money to whoever has F'd up their lives to the point of losing a home, cars, their kids going hungry. It is always one or the other of them.
I hade offered to my bride that I would be willing for us to help her parents, though in a very tightly controlled manner. I proposed that we purchase a home in their very small rural aggricultural town. They would live there paying us "rent" until our investment in the home was reimbursed
. When they are ready to go into assisted living we would sell the home and contribute the proceeds of the home sale to their support. The caveat being, 100% of their income goes into an account that only my wife (The CPA) has access to. She pays all of their bills, gives them a small allowance for discretionary spending, and invests the rest with a licensed investment advisor.
Nope, they got all butt hurt and offended.
Meanwhile 15yrs later and back at the ranch... my FIL passed 5yrs ago a few years after my ILs were able to by another home... after two farm forclosures. The first after they took out 2nd and 3rd mortgages on a farm they were less than 7 years from having paid off. This ties into their penchant for instant gratification but as they say... there is another time for that story.
Anyway, meanwhile, 15yrs later and back at the ranch... 5yrs after my FIL passed, 100% of MIL's income goes to an investment advisor who pays all of her bills, gives her a very small allowance, and invests the rest. My DW is the one who researched the investment advisor and set MIL up with them, and the one who mapped out my proposal to the advisor who jumped on it with both feet. He now has a number of his clients that are on the sampe plan with him.
When it was my idea and DW and I made the offer, you would have thought we had pissed on someone's leg. But... when we worked with the advisor to propose it to my MIL, and ultimately to DW's Aunt, and my SIL's ILs, BIL1's ILs, and BIL2's ILs it was the greatest idea ever.
The best part... my DW is not the one having to raise her own mother, parent her sibs and their ILs, etc.... And everyone is not at risk of losing their home, not being able to afford groceries, pay their electricity, water, gas bills, etc.......\
See if you can convince DH to invest in a managed account for the limited contributions to his adult kids and parents that is fully administered by an advisor. That way your SKids and ILs can only go to the advisor to beg rather than continously trying to guilt your DH.
Hopefully your DH has the grey matter and testicular fortitude to recognize that his duty is to his wife and young chilren and not his failed family adult spawn and his own parents who should all be self sufficient.
Just my thoughts of course.
Other cultures
Your suggestion is good.
I'm no expert but perhaps her DH's family is from a culture where its expected that children help financially.
Ther are even countries where
Ther are even countries where it's a legal obligation to help your parents if they raised you past a certain age...
I get the cultural variables. Growing up then working in the
Middle East and N. Africa for a large percentage of my life I/we have many friends, former employees, and colleagues who are heavily burdened by supporting multiple generations of their families and their SOs families.
When we mapped the original "support my IL's" model I had a number of people I worked with take exception to it and who were aghast at the fact that I nor my wife were willing to just hand cash to her parents and Sibs. I had to map out how much we had supported them over the years to the tune of multiple $5Figures in an attempt to calm my team, friends, etc.... Nope, that did not help. The nearly all were of the mind that you give as much as the parents ask for and you do it in cash. The same with sibs as well, and uncles, aunts, etc.....
Oh hell no. Casino trips, buying farm equipment, etc... is not what our money was going to be used for. So, we had food delivered weekly, we paid utility bills directly, we took in my then still minor SIL and paid for her univerity studies, etc.... We gave no one cash or any other negotiable instrument. Our help was on our terms. After we learned out lesson in paying an apartment deposit before the lease was signed and the family member we were helping recovered our deposit and went on a beach vacation with her girl besties. After that, we did nothing that anyone could get their hands on as far as money is concerned.
Our OCN (Other Country National) friends, mainly Asians & Africans, were mortified.
thanks
You've handled this very well.
He did buy a a home in their very small rural town and they agreed to pay "rent" but over the years they just stopped paying rent, so he pays the mortgage, which is still a meaningful outlay, and now they ask for more and more things and DH can't say no. This all started before we met, so my position is not as strong as yours.
My SParent experience is about as simple as it gets.
We met when SS-30 was 15mos old. A couple of months after she started University. I was in the last semester of my 11yr undergrad adventure.
It is not my position that is strong, my DW is strong, a brilliant CPA, and knows better than to throw good money after bad. She also knows her family. I am the one who will upon occassion will express an willingness to help, though with locked tight control. DW always says no.
Fortunatly.
The only person she would hand over the keys to vault to (figuratively of course) is our son (my former SS-30 who asked me to adopt him when he was 22). But.. he would not ask for, nor would he take a single cent even if we forced him to. We raised him to be a viable self supporting adult. He is exactly that, and much more.
Unfortunately, it may be
Unfortunately, it may be difficult to "save him from himself".. or even force a savings plan on him on behalf of your minor kids.. even if you were to divorce.. but date..
At this point, the first step is obviously that you would want to have separate finances. He should not be able to obligate you to joint debt.. debt on your home etc.. (obv local legal law would need to be understood.. hence the 2nd step) A second step might be to seek some joint financial planning to plan your future.. and possibly enlist some help in him seeing the light regarding his current spending.
Because.. I think he is reacting to the current "needs".. and sticking his head in the sand about down the road... he probably has convinced himself he has time.. to make it up. He may also feel that if your family is relatively well off.. that you will be able to help fill those gaps later.. like you may have an inheritance by the time the younger kids need school money.. or your parents would be inclined to help them with that etc.. But the overall theme is that he doesn't feel 100% on the hook for the younger kid's things because he has you.. and in his mind "time" to figure it out. There is also likely guilt from his older kids suffering the broken home.. it's not unusal for a parent to try to somehow make that up.
But.. financial planning.. sitting down with current breakdown of assets/liabilities.. what do you both need and want to save for.. college expenses? retirement? other goals? Where do you breakdown current spending for things now? 50/50? or some other split? How much are either of you saving towards those future goals?
Because.. he does have other kids.. and it's perrogative to an extent if he wants to help them.. but he can't ignore his obligations and plans for your household in order to do that.
A financial planner might help to point out the disparity in his spending for the older kids.. the prospects of potentially having to help his parents.. (are there other siblings? what are his parents options..? etc..) I mean.. I get it, to an extent.. he doesn't feel he can watch his parents eat cat food while he lives a cushy life.. and maybe the reality for him is that ensuring his parents are able to afford their medication and a roof over their head trumps saving for your joint kid's education... but if THAT is the case.. then the open checkbook for his other kids should be similarly shut. And.. at some point.. he needs to be able to encourage his older kids to live within their means to not set up a pattern where they rely on him to subsidize ever extra want... when it means that you are left holding the bag on your kid's needs.
Have you tried to have conversations from a perspective of concern for your joint financial future? Approach him with the .. We need to see a planner.. so we don't end up in the same place that your parents are etc.. and that could be the whiteboard opportunity to point out the problem with his current spending pattern and how it's not sustainable.. and that he is going to begin runnign out of time to correct the course of his financial ship.
Wowza
We usually read how poor wittled COD lose out when big daddio has a "new family". This is the total ooposite. In fairness to all the kids your DH should be contributing towards your kids with a college fund etc. Instead he is paying for adult skids new houses?
WRONG on so many levels. Guilty daddio syndrome for sure. Your skids aint Cinderella in this scenario.
You need to get legal advice and drawn up so that you and your kids arent the losers. There should be some fairness.
His kid's house need is a
His kid's house need is a "right now".. he probably feels he has time.. and other people that can help save for his younger kids... but we all knwo that he won't have enough time if he keeps at it.