Disappointed with OSD’s behavior
I just looked to see what the last thing I shared here about OSD was, and it kind of made me laugh because I said something along the lines of "everything is going so well, but I'm sure tensions will arise at some point." That was in August. And yeah, tensions "arose" today.
XH and I are paying for 100% of OSD's University tuition and 50% of her dorm and meal plan. Before anyone asks why I have anything to do with OSD's expenses; our finances are a hybrid of joint and separate because we still own and operate several businesses together. The kids' educations are among the things that we chose to handle jointly.
OSD was made responsible for coming up with the other 50% of her living expenses - through loans, working, BM, whatever. We let her know the expectation over a year before she started college, so she had plenty of notice to prepare. Unfortunately, she's not very financially responsible (and XH has a terrible habit of being overindulgent with her financially) so both semesters she's come to us asking for additional assistance.
Right now it's time to make housing decisions for next year, and she desperately wants to move off campus into an apartment with a friend. We think this is a bad idea for a lot of reasons, mostly to do with her maturity and the social/academic benefits of living in the dorm. But also because it will be much more expensive and she hasn't even been able to cover the expenses she has now. Her assertion is that next year she'll take out more loans, so she's not worried about paying "her half".
To encourage her to stay on campus another year, we told her that if she moves off campus, we would put the exact amount towards her living expenses as we did this year and she would have to come up with the rest. We also told her if she wanted to stay on campus but move to one of the nicer dorms, we would continue to pay 50% of that + meal plan, even if it was more expensive than what it was this year. It really isn't about the cost to us at this point, it's more that we believe she'll be better off overall if she delays moving into an apartment for another year.
Of course, she's made up her mind and so wants to go ahead with moving into an apartment and incurring more debt. So she asked XH to co-sign for the apartment for her. He refused, reminding her that she hasn't proven that she can be trusted to meet her financial obligations and he doesn't want to be responsible for the entirety of her rent.
Well, she absolutely lost her shit at that point. XH says that she was in hysterics and said some of the most vile and hateful things he has ever heard in his life. Mostly directed at him, but evidently she had a lot to say about me and DD. Some of it was so off the wall that it made me laugh. Quite a bit of it was seriously hurtful. Just a lot of jealousy about the life that she thinks DD and I live compared to her (I mean, I'm 40 and DD is 9. So yeah, I guess our lifestyles are a little different from a 19 year old college student). Accusations that XH and I don't work, that we haven't had "real jobs" in years (not sure what she thinks all of our clients and customers are paying us for, exactly?) We don't care about her getting an education (BM has not paid a dime towards her education or living expenses!) Her list of grievances just went on and on.
The conversation ended when she screamed at him that she was going to figure it out herself, she doesn't need our help and doesn't want to speak to him again. The thing is that it will almost certainly be impossible for her to continue where she's at without us. I cannot imagine that she would qualify for enough loans to cover everything 100%. And god knows BM won't help her at all. So I'm sure she'll be circling back. Probably to me directly in hopes that XH didn't relay her tantrum to me. He says he wants some time to reevaluate what we're going to do for her next year. He doesn't intend to be punitive just because she lost her temper, but he also doesn't want to let her off the hook completely and reinforce her bad behavior. The most alarming thing about this was that this reaction was TEXTBOOK BM. Like the entitlement, the escalating demands, the breakdown into hysterics, and the hurling of completely absurd accusations and grievances. That's all BM. It's how she has always treated everyone in her life. Including XH, her parents, his parents, and the SDs. So to see OSD emulating that is difficult. And doesn't bode well for her future relationships.
Anyway, it's really disappointing given how much I thought she'd progressed and matured. Hopefully this is just a small bump in the road and not a complete derailment. Time will tell.
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The things we learn early....
Sigh, I think the things we learn early, the behavior we see in our formative years, is very strong. I suppose it's possible for therapy to alter those patterns but they're pretty strong. So, yes, you're probably seeing BM's influence there. So sorry, I get to watch our late BM's influence play out in SD61, not easy or fun.
It's sad, right? That you can
It's sad, right? That you can really try to do all the right things, but ultimately there is so little that can be done to combat the primary influence a kid is exposed to in their formative years. XH remarked to me that at least we know that DD will never behave this way. Mostly because we haven't over indulged her to the point that she feels entitled. But also because she's never seen me or anyone else behave this way. Unfortunately for my SDs, BM was having meltdowns of this scale on a weekly basis from the time they were born until it kind of tapered off to a few times a year around their early teens. That is a LOT for little kids to be exposed to. So sad.
Wow. The entitlement is
Wow. The entitlement is strong with this one. Wonder how she would feel if she actually financially had to do it on her own. Since her college experience is basically paid for, she will never understand the struggle that many students face, juggling bills, a job or two, and a full academic caseload. Maybe having to face that hard lesson will teach her a thing or two. She doesn't get to have her cake and eat it too.
Yep. I told XH that one of
Yep. I told XH that one of his biggest mistakes was not allowing the SDs to experience discomfort if we could help it. The intention was pure; trying to make up for them having an absolutely bat shit crazy mother. But the result has been that OSD in particular cannot handle it when she didn't get her way. She really feels like having to live on campus is a catastrophe, simply because it isn't her preference. She truly feels like if we don't give her exactly what she wants, we're not doing anything at all.
damn, my kids would have
damn, my kids would have jumped at the deal you were offering and they'd have been doing your chores and lawn work for the entire school year as a thank you.
how you have kept your cool is impressive!
Thank you! I wish would see
Thank you! I wish would see how lucky she is, but she just doesn't. I literally worked 30-40 hour weeks all through college. I had scholarships and my parents helped a little. But for the most part, if I didn't work... well I wouldn't have starved, but I would have been living off ramen and tap water more often than not. This kid has no concept of how good she has it.
Actions and words do have consequences though.
You can't just go off on people because you're having a bad moment aka not getting what you want. If anything use this as an example to her that she clearly is not mature enough to handle the responsibilities she's demanding you help support.
My own DD had a few rough
My own DD had a few rough years and her expectations of what I should do for her and her (at the time) loser BF were very different from what I thought I should do for her. She went OFF on me one time, said horrible things.
I held my ground, did not provide the money she demanded. I let her cool off, probably a couple of weeks before we spoke again. I acknowledged that she was struggling, but due to her own choices, and could I help her with some medical and mental health issues that I knew were contributing. I knew she was desperately unhappy and was using me as her punching bag.
Anyway, don't back down or move boundaries just because SD had a head-spinning tantrum. Your basic approach is solid -- you're willing to help and she is free to accept that help and its conditions, or not. That's the way the real world works. Imagine going to your mortgage lender and throwing a fit if they don't offer the terms you want. She needs to develop some financial maturity, as my DD did. In the long run her life will be easier when she figures that out.
Today, my DD and her husband own their own home. They are facing some unusual expenses and she said they can handle it from their emergency savings fund. She is adulting very well.
Thank you, this was really
Thank you, this was really reassuring to hear. I'm so glad your DD took those lessons to heart and was able to move past the entitlement mentality. I really hope that if we can hold strong, OSD will look back and understand our reasoning and will appreciate it. Or at least not be bitter and angry for the rest of her life.
Wow - she's going to regret
Wow - she's going to regret that reaction!
I moved out of the dorms my sophmore year. And had discussions with my parents about what they would help with. Basically I was saving them $$ at that time since the apartment was cheaper AND I had to pay around 70% of my own expenses. And I was in school full time, with good grades, and had a job all year long. I never ever asked them for extra, even when I was in the dorms.
If I threw that kind of fit all help would have come to a halt immediately. I think you and her dad need to let her feel the results of her actions. OSD here did the same sort of thing to DH about college money and that sealed it that he was NOT going to help her if she could not have a rational conversation with him.
I agree with the others SD
I agree with the others SD should not get off scot free here. She should feel the consequences of biting the hand that feeds her. While kids make mistakes, she should know better at her age. If she gets away with this, it will only get worse as she becomes a full fledged adult. Maybe your percentage of support is tasken away, or she gets no living expenses, etc.
Good riddance. She finally
Good riddance. She finally told your ex what she thought of you, so keep that in mind and make informed decisions when it comes to doing anything for her..
Couldnt see myself paying for steps education (thankfully they are all illiterate and on their way to juvenile or prison) when I am married and definitely not if I was divorced
Imagine all that money you spend on an ungrateful hateful broad could have been contributed to your own daughters education fund. You need a refund from your ex promptly tbh
Oh I won't be doing anything
Oh I won't be doing anything extra for her anytime soon, probably not for years to be honest. Her birthday is coming up and XH always goes overboard, so I'm sure she'll have a rude awakening when that doesn't happen this year.
As for my daughter, her education is taken care of; as is YSDs. We wouldn't do something for one kid that would take away from the others. In truth, we're fortunate to be able to afford to cover 100% of everything for each of the kids. But we decided that we want them to have some investment in their futures, hence making them responsible for 50% of their living expenses.
I think that's where a lot of OSD's anger stems from. She knows that we're making a choice to not pay for every little thing, and she feels entitled to that. I suspect that she lets BM off the hook because she believes that BM "can't afford" to help her (which isn't actually true, but BM has done a great job of convincing her and everyone else that she's a struggling single mom who gets no support). The bottom line is that OSD feels that she deserves to have us just give her everything she wants, no strings attached, no expectations, no responsibility. She has no concept of the value of money or work. I mean, we've been self employed for 9 years and she, with a totally straight face, characterized that as "not working." It would be hilarious if it wasn't so alarming.
Children of divorce/single
Children of divorce/single moms often have entitlement issues. They have been catered to and provided for extra by both parents their entire lives so when its time to be on their own, they cant deal with not being the center of attention and not being supported 100% by daddy/non custodial because after, thats his role!
I understand that you have morals and principles but these steps really dont have any so its pointless. I wouldnt do anything for anyone who laid down 20yrs ago and had entitled brats....If they bring them into this world, then they should handle them. BM is financially and legally responsible, not you. Its sad because you spend your hard earned funds on someone who literally hates you smh
I hope you can get to a place where you stop giving these ppl time and money....she can go ask her mother or father for these things since she is so hateful towards you
IMHO the biggest mistake many parents make...
A parent's responsibility is to perpare their children for life. It is not to protect them from life.
Two very different things.
One is the formula for parenting success, the other the formula for abject parental failure. Sadly the later is also tantamount for those kids to fail as adults.
We gave my SIL the golden ticket to a good life.
My ILs were not the best parents. My DW's youngest sib was left home alone for month after month starting when she was about 15yo. The house was a toxic waste dump, there was little food in the house.
My DW actually called CPS on her own parents. CPS replied that SIL was 15 and could clean the house if it was dirty and get a job to buy her own food.
That year the people's republic of SpermLand had the brilliant idea to save money on public education by reducing the graduation credit requirements so they could get kids out at 17 rather than 18. SIL's was the first class that could graduate after their Jr year or go on to a 4th year of HS. It was parent's discretion. My ILs signed the form to let SIL graduate a year early. She had enough credits because she had done a summer in Europe on a People to People program after her Sophomore year of HS.
My DW begged her parents not to sign the form. If there was a kid who needed that extra year of maturity, it was my SIL.
She graduated a year early. Just barely.
At that time we were paying $450/mo in after school care for our son (my SS), $150/mo in lawn care on our home while DW and I both worked full time.
I proposed to DW that we take Guardianship of SIL-17, move her in with us (across the country from SpermLand) and pay for her college. DW pulled some strings with her Alma Matter to get SIL in. The agreement was that we get the tax write off by taking guardianship, SIL would watch SS after school each day, do the yard work, and keep the house picked up and we would pay for college.
It worked great... except for it was a constant battle to get her to live up to her end of the agreement, a complete PITA to get her to actually go to class, and an even bigger PITA to do work at the college level.
A year later she successfully completed her Freshman year of university with a 3.0+ GPA. Then... she ran home to SpermLand because "they are so mean!. They force me to go to class, they do not like the work I do and make me do it over again before I can turn it in.....whaaaaaaaa!"
She was funtionally illiterate when she "graduated" from HS. We made her work to college level. By the end of her Freshman year she could actually write a decent paper.
Her decent GPA got her into a local university in SpermLand. She could maybe have gotten into a rural community college before we took guardianship. But I doubt it. With my DW riding her to do her work and attend class and the overisght and mentorship of one of my DW's professors, SIL could get into the local U as a transfer student.
We had bought a 3rd vehicle for her use to take SS to sports practices, commute to class, etc.... When she left, we sighed it over to her.
Meanwhile 18yrs later and back at the ranch..... SIL attended the local university for about 10yrs, took out over $80K in school loans, was frozen out of taking any more classes or taking out any more loans by the university for failing to progress, and ... she never graduated. She had two out of wedlock spawn with the guy my son calls "Uncle Hoodlum Mugger" that she stuck the bill on the tax payers for their delivery, and is now eternally in debt for her loan fraud, blames her failure to graduate on the mean university. She and Uncle Mugger did eventually marry. Their children are an F'n nightmare of entitlement bratiness.
She has an odd superiority complex about it all