First post - what to do?
Hi, looks like a nice forum w/helpful people. I'm in a tough spot....my wife's 34 yo son went homeless - by choice, after many ppl had taken him in. We'd discussed him coming here last fall, and I put my foot down, no way...drug and mental issues, and he's manipulative. 2 weeks ago she approached me and said she was off to get him, and that she didn't want to discuss it w/me '"because I knew you'd say no". Feels like a betrayal.
Now he's living in a trailer in my backyard, and tho not rude or impolite and has agreed no booze/drugs, there is a dynamic going on w/the wife. She wants to pretend everything is just fine, and all the problems are my fault...I keep having mood swings and anxiety. I can't help but not trust her because of the way she did this. I'm not against helping the guy (she calls him the 'kid'), but I would've rather ponied up for a room instead of this situation. She says it's only temporary...I wonder til what, he moves into the house and I move out?
I feel like I've lost my private space, and my primary relationship too. She is getting sick of my bouncing back & forth emotionally, and I have told her WHY I'm feeling this way. Not even an apology. His needs come first so she's running him around (tho it IS for work), and there hasn't been any energy left for us. Kinda feels like I've been replaced, out of the blue. Am I just being selfish? I know many others have gone thru this, and I was just wondering what coping strategies helped?
Thanks.
Nope not selfish- sadly this
Nope not selfish- sadly this was handled horribly by your wife. You both needed to make the decision together and she made it without you. You were very clear about your boundaries and she did not respect them. And yes it is a betrayal. If I were you I would confront her and say you and "kid" need to come up with a timeline to be out of the backyard and what steps you and Him are going to take to make this happen and have him be independent at the ripe age of 34. They can then report back to you with the solution and have it writing- throw it up on the fridge so you and your wife can see the timeline THEY created. When it's not met...then what are the consequences?? That's the second part of this deal. Just my two cents. I took an adult SKID in for 8 months - it was horrific, he was horrible and it did NOT make him become a better member of society. Giving him the "help" and hand out actually stunted him further and he was not grateful for it. Sorry for you- truly. Hang in there and keep us updated on status of what happens and what the timeline looks like with consequences for not meeting the specific dates/goals.
Coping Strategies…
Include meeting with a Divorce Attorney to know exactly where you stand should you decide to Exit this marriage... Knowledge is Power - and powerful to help set this story straight. Money well spent to protect your mental health and if your wife continues to chose her son over you - you know how the cards play out. Addicted Skids with parents in denial rarely have happy endings. Rewrite your story. Best to you, Brother!
Helping and enabling are two
Helping and enabling are two entirely different things.
I know what you mean
My SD60 has always been a problem, she moved in and out of here several times in her teens, always leaving chaos and bad feelings behind. Back in those days, we were in "poor SD, child of divorce ( COD)" mode. After her breakup with DH#1, she moved in with her daughter. DH didnt discuss it with me but I was so busy working, going to night school and coping with 4 other kids, that didnt register. Then we had some quiet years when she got with DH#2 and had 2 more kids.
Twelve years ago, she and DH#2 split. She had 5 years of moving into apartments, not paying rent and getting evicted. DH was ramping up the "help", car payments, utilities, etc while she waited for disability to kick in.. I started addIng up the numbers and got concerned. She lost her last place and he announced she was moving in.
That started a hellacious year of drug use, thievery, lies, manipulation and total chaos. My health began to show the stress. Long story, I figured out how much we'd have to pay monthly to supplement her disability and get her out of here.
So, that's what we do. I separated our finances and the money it costs for her is a defined amount and comes from DH84's $. No extras, no charging stuff and I check it daily. Not one penny else.
I know this isn't an ideal solution but it's given us peace for 5 years. My DH had never been able to say no to her and, in truth, he wouldn't let any of our 5 kids be homeless.
Your situation sounds a little different if your SS is employable. The first poster had a good suggestion about posting the move out agreement prominently but what if he doesnt move? I dont have any answers, just wanted to say I know exactly how you feel..Good luck.
Thanks for all the input,
Thanks for all the input, folks! Helpful. Yes, it's a crap situation. We had a long talk yesterday, specifically about the unilateral decision. She does understand my point, but really believed this to be life or death. Honestly, I don't think the guy IS hooked on any drugs tho has been a user (I am a rock guitarist, I know the drill)...he has a mental condition. Depression, ADHD stuff. He was willing to walk out homeless rather than seek mental help. But is employable, and is good at his cashier job, tho it's not the best bread-winning occupation one could have.
I have a buddy who's a PhD counselor, and he already suggested the "plan, and end game' approach. (he's too busy to do much more than that for us tho).
Plan: let him get into his new job - he seems positive and grateful to have it, so there's that. He is competent at it, they asked him to stay and he did 12 hrs yesterday. He's back there this morning again. Wife's collecting his $$, of course as down payment on room/apartment.
- We're trying to get him to counseling as now he's amenable to it, where before he wouldn't have it. My hope is that he can get a 'case manager', who, in my area - will literally go around and get ppl to write their checks at month's end, and keep them focused and responsible.
- Set up his 'exit time' in about 2 weeks. I agree, there should be 'consequences' if he won't go...just, what tho? Big jump in rent that is actually taken by us? I could ask my friend what's 'appropriate', if I can get him long enough (lots of crazies up here I guess!).
My wife is a great woman and doesn't take kindly to bullshit, which is why this was so upsetting. Her daughter is a joy to be around and is stable, married/kids and responsible. She wants to give him a 1-time try to get on 'the path', and I guess I can go along and try to be helpful, as LONG as there is a CONTRACT. So that will be a priority for sure. My job (and I've told him) is to be the Gatekeeper, to keep him from trying to move in or make this longer than it should be. I think he understands that, LOL. She thinks my being gatekeeper is fine, she also likes her space and our quiet rural home.
Thanks again for the advice, I'll post back how things are going as we get to 'exit setting'!
"She thinks my being the gatekeeper is fine"
My DH is secretly like this, too. I guess I'm the bad guy but that's ok with me.
Yes, Gatekeeper "has worked"
Yes, Gatekeeper "has worked" in the past when I said No. She admits she doesn't want him here long and doesn't like driving him to work after her work day etc etc. I think it's more guilt about her divorce & effect on him.
I also know people can waffle and cave when emotions are involved! So....Gatekeeper. I can be the strict/bad guy pretty well, lol.
She needs to look at her
She needs to look at her guilt squarely and realize that his failures are of his making (her daughter had the same conditions and made it, right?) , not hers, and that he alone can fix them.
Bingo. He needs counseling
Bingo. He needs counseling and to learn how to manage money, time, all the other things adults do. We are in agreement on this, at least. She's certainly not trying to paint him in rosy colors...she's pretty PO'd at how he has messed up so bad, and is consistent so far on "we'll help you but you will have to get your own place". So in many ways I do support her, I just realize that a birth parent + step may see 'how' to help in a few different ways! I mostly want to keep our relationship 'good' so that decisions can be from a unified front. It seems that's important.
This is your first post, right??
I pray for all of you that in years from now, you can look back and know you and your wife were part of a great team creating a path of success for your SS. As you can see - you are among some very seasoned cast iron skillets when it comes to SKIDS. Hoping you'll be able to share an uplifting story here sometime!
Sell the trailer and drag it
Sell the trailer and drag it off to the new owner. With him in it if necessary.
Quit letting your manipulative mate gaslight you into believing this is your fault. That is exactly what she is doing.
Next time she runs off to rescue her failed family progeny, have the locks re-keyed and divorce papers waiting for he return. Quit being their victim and grow some balls man.
A great woman does not do to her husband whet this manipulative child worshipping manipulator is doing to you. Up your standards of greatness.
If you want to help, give this useless POS enlistment papers to all 5 services and tell him to get off of his useless ass and launch. He is in his 30s for F sake and mommy is still rescuing him?
My wife and I tolerated the failure to launch for only 8 mos after SS-29 turned 18. After he turned 18 he had a choice to be our beck and call chore bitch or launch. For 8 mos after his birthday he scrubbed, cleaned, washed, folded,polished, vacuumed, mopped, dusted, cut, trimmed, weeded sliced, diced, chopped, cooked, served, did the dishes, and put them away, Then he did it all again the next day.
After 8mos he reported for USAF BMT. He has kicked ass in his career, as an adult, and as a man of quality and character ever sense. His mom and I are very proud of him. He has served for 11 years and has 5 to go on his current commitment. He will qualify for military retirement before he turns 39.
Set and enforce the standards of behavior and performance you require and hold both your bride and her spawn to those standards. Please stop being their victim.
Good luck
Your wife and yourself had a
Your wife and yourself had a different situation then, Rags, and I'm happy your son turned into a productive man. I highly doubt I'm ready to throw a 15 yr relationship, 12 married, right on the rocks after 2 weeks of a shock to the system. When in that time, nothing like this has ever happened. Spent almost 20 yrs getting my old farmhouse that I restored on 10 acres in the boonies; I'm not walking away from it and forcing a sale after 2 weeks! That's why I came on here - so I don't open my reactive mouth and destroy my marriage. Trust me, I'm NO quiet little wallflower, LOL. Nor is my wife. If it continues longer than what's 'reasonable', then that's a different story. I'm trying to figure out what's reasonable from here, conversations with 'friends in the business' (recovery, counseling etc) and so on. First thing in any situation would seem to be collect as much info as you can, to understand what's actually going on...
Guy hasn't been around since he was 18, limited contact even w/her. He has issues (If you watched "Ozark", think of wendy's brother Ben). Very polite and will do what he's told, but til NOW has been very adamant that he was going to do it exactly like you say he should - on his own, no help, to the point of actually being homeless. Some of it WAS the partying cycle, and some is the aftermath/depression. If this IS 'the bottom', as he says, then there is a chance for him. This is a tricky situation. If I'd TRULY stood my ground, and the guy ended up dead on the street - how would THAT improve my marriage?? "My son was suicidal, and my husband wouldn't let us help him. Now he's dead".
The trailer came from a Veteran's group, and is actually nice, a good alternative for vets with PTSD etc, to not have to impose as much on the home if they're having difficulties. He is not a combat vet tho, was a reservist, and 'they agreed he should not be in the service any longer', honorably I suppose. If we can find a spot to move it to that will allow it, that's a good alternative that gets him 'in his own place' while working. Or a room to rent, til he can get a roomie and apartment or something. Housing is tough up here. Hence my desire to get him 'services' to deal w/counseling and housing; a diagnosis.
That's all I got, man. 2 weeks just isn't enough time to really understand WTF the issues are, but he IS working now at least, and says he wants to get his own place. No booze/drugs that I can 'detect' (and I'm pretty good, having played that game as a young man).
The details always bring more complete perspective.
My concern is that finding reasonable after DW was so unreasonable may be a forlorn hope:
I hope you can navigate this successfully.
The VA might offer support/services...
If you or your wife have the time, call the local VA clinic or hospital near you to see if he qualifies for mental health care, meds, support groups, etc. Or he can call. You'd need copy 4 of his DD214 (discharge) to see what type of discharge he had. It may or may not make a difference nowadays since behavioral health treatment is coming out in the open.
He can log in to va.gov to get his DD214 if he lost it. PM me if I can help. I'm a combat 100% disabled vet & have navigated the chaos of the VA so feel free to reach out. Sometimes they ask for his previous year tax return so don't be put off by that. It might take three phone calls to different people at the VA to get the correct direction to go to get care for him. Mom might need to sit down with him so he can make the calls, he can do it, might save money and he can get into support groups with other male vets.
Yeah, I do too, Rags. And
Yeah, I do too, Rags. And 'navigate' is surely the right word. Clearly all of this can be/is a mine field.
Consequences
Hey, just to put it out there - what have some of you set for consequences if an exit date is set and not kept? I'm not sure if I should say "separation papers" or....kid would be perfectly happy with that, or with paying a small rent to live in his trailer out back, no problem to him. The time to make this agreement is coming up...
Don't use separation or
Don't use separation or divorce papers as a tactic unless you are 110% ready to do that.
An escalating state of abject misery works.
Because he is in a trailer in the back yard, cut off the power, water, and WiFi.
He will be gone in a matter of hours when D-day arrives.
This is what our Burning Platform was. An escalating state of abject misery for a recently adult aged kid struggling to take action on his life. We likely would not have"thrown him out" but we for sure were not going to facilitate his sofa rodeo rider aspirations after graduating HS then turning 18 at the end of that summer.
We incrementally increased SS's level of discomfort until he realized that he could get paid for working rather than merely existing with basic room and board for his escalating irritating minutia daily chore list.
I agree- start making it
I agree- start making it extremely uncomfortable to remain.
Ha, he actually WANTS to go
Ha, he actually WANTS to go now. Got a job in the gas station/conv.mart and yesterday he called a number I found for him about rooms to rent. Going to check the one that's available tomorrow. So maybe no ultimatums or exit days needed!
This really is about mental issues, having spent some time with him. We used call that 'scatter brained', but today there are other terms for it. So the way to go forward w/this seems to be to get him in counseling (while living out of here) and try to keep him from doing 'the cycle' of feeling better, working a while, getting bored, going back to whatever drug of choice, losing the job, losing the place to live...which is what was went on before. I don't mind helping a family member with that stuff, just not while I support them! My wife fully agrees.
Thanks for all the suggestions. The saga WILL continue, I'm not naive, but having it off my property (hopefully!) will be a much better way to keep all parties in some sort of balance.
IMHO.. setting him up for
IMHO.. setting him up for success.. and living independently but with oversight are pretty important goals. It may mean that he needs some "gap" help.. paying deposits etc.. that could be a "gift" of independance.. perhaps some carrot/stick thing where she will continue to provide X amount of monthly subsidy as long as he can show proof of keeping his counseling appointments and staying clean.
Yes ESMOD, we're talking with
Yes ESMOD, we're talking with my counselor buddy about that. SS admitted to me today that he's thinking about weed a lot, "and maybe it would be ok to just drink beer w/friends when he gets his own place" (was totally homeless 3 weeks ago). Before it was "I'm fine, no substance issue, no no I'm good". That will help, because my doc buddy can now 'sink his claws into him' on the substance abuse track. Hell, I'll get him to AA myself, I know the program. Adds to the list of why he needs a case manager. Unfortunately, some ppl DO need that. Better to get it into the light at this point. My doc friend is a great avenue in this regard!
Wife is very happy that the wheels are moving and understands the potential crashes ahead for him, but that going into reality and independence is of major importance. So now we can work on 'us' responding to this situation rather than 2 on 1. :)
My heart goes out to you!
No, you're not being selfish. I would be furious if all of this was done to me by my DH with either of his sons. I'm sorry to say that your wife and SS are the ones that are being selfish. I'm not making excuses for her but I'm guessing she fears him dying...either by his own hand or an overdose of some sort. I DO understand her wanting to get her child (man child!) back on his feet and in a stable 'condition'. I also understand her guilt; I allowed my choice to divorce my 1st husband to weigh me down with guilt. This is a tough situation all the way around. I LOVE the game plan your doctor friend has suggested. She is the one that has to stick to it, however, because the SS doesn't sound like his accountability will be a consisten, longterm thing. What stands out for me the most, however, is how this was all done without your consent. Or, at the least, talking to you about it in the beginning and explaining HER plan to help him. You could have both discussed it. Good luck, I hope SS gets himself together and begins to live the independent life all adults SHOULD live and enjoy.
Thanks for the update!
In your comments. Sounds like you have a workable situation and fingers crossed he stays on the right path.
You're right
Yes, she absolutely fears him dying by own hand, overdose, or someone 'on the street' taking him out. Which are real possibilities in that environment - I know it very well (again, former rock guitarist lol). The only thing that'll keep this guy going forward is counseling and a case manager who 'checks in' with ppl with these problems. His own commitment to change is the only thing that'll help him.
To be fair, she DID discuss some things about what she'd do, and would NOT do, about him. But after the 1-sided decision, I found it hard to believe she'd follow thru. To her credit, she is. She has always been a person of her word, and HER putting her foot down ("I'm doing this!") shocked me. She's no doormat, by far, LOL, which is why I married her in the 1st place. She's allowing me to have my time w/him discussing '12 step programs' and counseling, and how there's no shame in getting help (you might say I knew Bill W. way back when, myself...). And how this 'help' won't happen a 2nd time, nope. Today I'm arranging an app't. with a case manager, which will take 1-2 weeks to get in, I'm sure.
Exit is end of the month. Everyone knows that and agrees. HE'D like to run right out, see ya! and I bet go smoke some pot...so I think he and I will spend some time exploring the basements of a few local churches I know before he goes...
I don't think you're being
I don't think you're being selfish. I understand your situation and I would have ended up in the same type of situation but I left and filed for divorce about 1 1/2 months ago. My ex-SS was walking the same path of living off mommy/daddy indefinitely - I'm sure he's still on that path.
My ex-husband did the same thing to me: he would make decisions about our home and living situation to accommodate his manchild and he never asked me or discussed things with me. That gave me the same moodiness and unhappiness that you are experiencing. My ex husband said I was crazy. You're not crazy or selfish wanting to keep your space yours and to want decisions made about your home and those who want to live there to be discussed with you!
I hope he finds a room and vacates soon. I don't blame you for not wanting to give up your home - I wouldn't either. If he shows hesistancy about leaving or backs out on leaving, I would do as other posters suggested: make living there so miserable that he leaves.
I hope things work out!
Thanks! Sorry you had to file
Thanks! Sorry you had to file for divorce, but sometimes it's the only way, absolutely. Nobody should live in a 1-sided marriage, bahhh!
Looked at a room to rent today (in a bldg for others in similar circumstances WITH 'security' tenants around too) it was nice and can walk to his job - deposit is paid, move-in Aug 1! Obtained him state aid (insurance basically) for counseling/diagnosis/case manager and a check-up. Taking his ass to AA in a couple of days, which is also close enough to walk to. And he is working.
Wife agrees that we are setting him up as well as any person could EVER hope to be to start over and that there isn't much more we SHOULD be doing...she can give him some emotional uplift and leftovers now and then, sure. The rest is up to him. He can afford the room (heat/electric included) by working < 5 days per month at the current job. Next step is for her & I to make an agreement that THIS is his big, last chance. Should there be a booze/drugs next time, it's rehab/state care. The kind a judge signs off on.
It's amazing what you can do when you get a fire lit under you!! LOL
This is true and sometimes,
This is true and sometimes, people need a fire lit under them LOL!
I think it is beneficial that your wife seems to want to work with you in dealing with her son. I agree that you both have given him a sturdy platform from which to jump now, so the rest is up to him. I would recommend just to have an agreed plan in place maybe in case he backslides? Hopefully he won't!
I really hope things work out for all of you!
With the partnership you and DW have, he might stand a chance.
A 'backslide' plan is a good
A 'backslide' plan is a good idea. We'll have to come up w/some ideas. Ideally, he'll be getting an on-going counselor or even case manager that 'keeps track' of if they're paying rent, going to work and so on....some 'prompting', as well as what she'll be doing. I'll try to slide him into AA as a way to gain some support structure, maybe friends who aren't going to get him toking again. Things are much more calm on the home front now that some kind of plan is being worked! :)
He IS working hard, and is well-liked at the gas station (staff being so hard to get/keep). That's good for self-esteem. I think much of his booze/weed was "self-medication", covering up underlying issues. If we can get him to talk to a counseler about them, he might be able to put together a stable and 'repeatable' way of life, we hope! AA on Wed. (I'm taking him to a 'fun, friendly working class' one I know rather than a couple of 'overly spiritual' ones that would be earlier) as a good intro. He's interested - likely very bored and lonely living in the trailer in the boonies here, lol.