New relationship with 2 children. Are they unruly or am I too picky? Please help!!!
I'll try to keep this short, but unfortunately it's a bit complex.
I started dating an amazing woman who has kids. During the dating stages, I could see they were a bit defiant, but generally seemed like good kids. She has a son (4) and a daughter (8). They share half the time with their father.
We decided to move in together after quite a while. I sold my home, moved my business, and moved in with her.
Almost immediately, I noticed the kids were much more comfortable acting themselves and as such, would do more and more things that really stood out to me. Some good, some bad. Both are great kids, but they have some bad habits that seems to be quantified by the lack of direction from my GF/their mother.
For instance, they love to pee/poop all over, not flush the toilet, not wash their hands. I told her while I can't parent them (not my place) I would always step in even if it weren't my kids, and project the importance of good hygiene and leaving the bathroom how you found it. Instead of her reinforcing that, they now come out and wipe their hands on me as they think it's funny. She doesn't seem to care. It's only brought to or asked to be done when I mention it.
While the above is just a single example, it spans all aspects of life; their inside voices are non existant. She allows them to always watch TV when eating, so eating takes 60-90 minutes and food is wasted. She tells them not to sleep in the bed but they busy the door open anyways, and she feels bad and let's then sleep with us. They spill something? She doesn't care. They throw something? Nothings said. The list goes on and on and on....
By now I'm sure you see where this is heading. While I know it's not my place, some things I can't leave alone. Them kicking my car seat continually, or hitting me in the crotch, or taking my personal belongings; those things I speak up, and will always speak up about. But things like hitting each other, not eating, being messy, sleeping in moms bed, crying about literally EVERYTHING because it invokes a reaction from mom... all of those things I have to watch happen without saying a word and I'm not sure I can.
my Gf, is unfortunately pre occupied with her phone a lot. She has all the gay friends and co workers in the world who are always talking to her, so often times she just doesn't pay attention to her kids and they get unruly. They will come into a conversation and sit there and say "mom mom mom mom" until she has to break away. The first time I got upset and told him to be patient and I was having a discussion... he cried. Mom got mad at me, and now he taunts me when she's gone by continually trying to get my attention when he knows I'm pre occupied.
the worst part of this all, is my GF admits they are unruly. She has said "they are so much that I honestly just choose to let them be crazy instead of always getting mad" and thought I would accept that argument. When I explained that's essentially her admitting that her kids willingness to be defiant outweighs her willingness to be persistent, she gets offended.
I love her, and I like the kids. But I can't sit by and watch as kids go 4-7 days without showering, or days without brushing teeth, or the belief that they can come into our bed whenever they want and force me out. I literally noticed a child in our bed the other day when I was beginning to touch my GF. She had no clue he snuck in and instead of moving him just wraps her arms around him and goes back to sleep.
I'll admit I'm picky. I own my own companies, and keep a pretty clean ship. I'm not saying I'm perfect, or even that my way of life is better than another. I raised my brother and sister because my mom was a total disaster, so my understanding of raising children is at least founded on some experience. I don't want to go as far as saying she's a bad mom, but I do think she is not giving them the tough love or attention they badly need.
so how do I proceed?
It's not my place to parent, but I also am not too keen on politely telling my GF that I think she could put the phone down and do a better job. I really like her, and her kids when they are being good (very rarely, unfortunately)
If you know where this is
If you know where this is going... why continue the journey? At minimum you are 14 years from any relief if you ever have any. Kids that are raised like this never launch. They are like the proverbial old joke about "What do toilet paper and the the Star Ship Enterprise have in common?" They both orbit Uranus looking for Klingons. These kids are in the early stage of being life long Klingons.
If you must, test how it goes when you post the household standards of behavior and performance that children in your home will abide by and enforce them. If your SO gets on board and stays on board, there may be a slim chance of success. If not.. you have your answer and know what you are accepting if you stay.
Good luck.
I guess I'm hoping that I
I guess I'm hoping that I mean something and as such, she will realize the error in her parenting and make amendments to fix the issue. In retrospect... I can see how non likely that is. It really sucks cause I live this woman so much
How? How/why do you love her?
How? How/why do you love her???
Seriously? You sold your home, moved your business to further your relationship and lives. What does she do? Allows her feral children to wipe their poop hands on you while she is playing on her phone.
To me, that sounds 100% disrespectful and unworthy of your sacrifices.
Additionally, how can you possibly respect someone that is "raising" their children like that?
I understand that you love
I understand that you love her. However, do not delude yourself to the fact that someone else loved her and she loved that person before you existed in her life. Something ended that love.
Of course you mean something. But so far you don't mean enough for her to address her failure as a parent.
Past behavior is the best indicator of future performance and so far.... there appears to be no change to her past behavior.
I was madly in love with my XW. She was beautiful, smart and extremely desirable. Then I married her. Long story short... she is on at least DH #3 (I was #1), has three all out of wedlock children by two different sperm donors and two of her three were conceived with a BF while she was married to someone else. She was pregnant when she moved out of our home and our divorce initiated. We had not been intimate in 8mos. So, not mine and certainly not the second immaculate conception.
She was a serially adulterous whore and after we divorced....she has made that a behavioral career.
It is the rare leopard that changes its spots.
Be careful with your happiness. It is a precious commodity.
Take care of you.
She is using you.
She is using you.
Your GF is a crappy mom for a
Your GF is a crappy mom for a multitude of reasons, and an even crappier partner for allowing her kids to HIT you, rub germs on you, throw your things, etc.
This relationship will destroy you. That's not a maybe; that's a promise.
so how do I proceed?
so how do I proceed?
Personally, I would not proceed.
Kids who pee/poop all over, don't flush the toilet, and don't wash their hands are just something that I could not live with. And guess who has been letting them get away with it all of this time? Your wonderful GF. This is who she is, this is the kind of parent she is. It will eventually be an even bigger problem.
Yep. Just wait until they are
Yep. Just wait until they are teenagers. Then it gets really interesting
Since you don't have much to
Since you don't have much to lose, you could try having a come-to-Jesus talk with her, telling her your concerns and what behaviors you can and cannot live with. I would start with no kids in the bedroom, but that's just me. Also the disrespect has to stop with age-appropriate consequences (like time-out without electronics if you have to ask more than twice to do or stop doing something.) And the poop and pee - the 4-year-old is still close to potty training but by 8 that's just unacceptable! If she is amenable, you both sit the kids down and explain the rules. If it works, great. If it doesn't, you know what to do.
Food for thought... would you
Food for thought... would you want kids with this woman who can't parent the children she already has? You may/may not want children, but her inability to parent along with different view/values would be a deal breaker for me. Don't settle.
P.S. - you are NOT being harsh. You are being totally reasonable with the hygeine and just basic respect & being considerate of others.
Very good point. I do in fact
Very good point. I do in fact want kids, and while it seems weird... I very much wanted them with her. I felt like the only things missing in her situation was a firm figure who would relentlessly show them how to be a good, clean, thoughtful, caring person. I figured when it was my actual kid, I could assert my beliefs and have that alter the way her kids were being raised.
I would enforce bed times, makes them eat at the table, make them do their homework (the teacher of the older kid has been emailing mom because the daughter hasn't been doing the online homework. Moms response? She shouldn't have to do this) brush their teeth DAILY, shower DAILY, pick up after themselves, be courteous in an apartment living scenario, chew with mouth closed, cover mouth when sneezing....
I know some people may read that and go holy shit this guys nuts, and that's fine. I might be. But I'd also like to believe Steve Jobs dad was a nut in the same way, much as Elon Musks. It's not weird for me to want success for these kids. It's weird when people want to IGNORE the facts of the real world and coddle their kids until they have no care for other people's feelings, personal property, or even health.
I always wondered sometimes when I'd meet someone who just seemed so unaware, how they got to be like that. Now I think I know...
Well, I'm nuts but I still
Well, I'm nuts but I still wouldn't put up with this crap.
I think the most important
I think the most important question is, why do you or why would you doom your own children to suffer this failed woman/mother and a gaggle of older useless ill behaved half sibs for their entire lives?
No matter how amazing a father and parent you would be to your own children, they would still have the insane burden of half of their gene pool being shallow and polluted to carry for their entire lives. At best you would be present to counter the crap influence of mommy and the polluted failed family spawn. Odds are once this marriage crashes and burns you would not be there for their mommy visitation time.
If I were considering having children of my own in the situation you are in, I would find a quality partner to be the mother of my children rather than burdening my kids with the train wreck that your current partner represents.
Regardless of what you decide, good luck.
The only reason why the blended family experience my DW and I have had is because we both have been on the same page, we both have been totally committed and involved in raising SS to viable successful adulthood, we both have focused on completing graduate school and pursuing successful careers. Most importantly we have confronted the toxic blended family opposition as a team and also confronted internal bio family issues as a team when necessary. Even a great and quality parent cannot be completely successfully in raising a child while countering the influences of a toxic X.
Don't even try.
That's cool you guys have
That's cool you guys have found a successful way to live and raise good kids.
I understand completely what you are saying. She may not be the best candidate for a mother of my child.
Lol.
We just have one. So the complexity of our blended family world is about as simple as it gets.
Our son (my former SS-27) is the SpermIdiot's eldest of 4 all out of wedlock by three different baby mamas and our only.
Due to various influences and situations we have not had an ours child. I did adopt SS at his request when he was 22yo. His mom and met when he was 15mos old and married the week before he turned 2yo.
Our choice, if there actually was a choice, to not have BKs together was medically driven. SS almost killed my DW when she was pregnant with him and I have hereditary auto immune issues. Odds are our child/ren would have been fine, but I was not willing to risk my DW's life or health just for a BK and I did not want to risk my BKs having to deal with the autoimmune issues that I have. So... I/we raised SS as ours and addressed issues with the SpermClan as they unfolded.
Just make your future as drama free as possible and take care of you.
You think you're picky?
A picky guy wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole.
Maybe you have a need to 'save' people based on your situation growing up. No way should you take on this responsibility.
I agree with this.
I agree with this.
I read somewhere that the
I read somewhere that the poster was possibly gay? Perhaps the gay dating pool is a lot smaller but still. Being alone would be better than this life. This would not be an enjoyable life once the honeymoon wears off. Most decent looking men or women with good careers/personalities would not choose someone like this for a long term relationship. If she is attractive then maybe something casual and short term but no way they would entertain meeting her kids. That would be cruel for all people involved.
Just a few quesitons before I
Just a few questions before I dish out my two cents. How long have you known this woman and her kids? What do you really know about your gf's past relationship and it's demise? (Well her side of the story at least) Do you think by chance it had anything at all to do with her lax parenting, unruly kids and her being preoccupied with her phone/social media network and less interested in being a good parent, good partner and provider? I'll be honest. It makes me very nervous that you sold your home, your business and moved in with her. Usually these situations do not make it past the five-ten year mark, if that, and if they do the people involved by then are usually miserable, broke (or both) and end up stuck.
You are not too harsh and
You are not too harsh and your girlfriend is not amazing. She is a user who is a crap parent with two entitled, poorly behaved, brats. She is using you to help her out financially. This relationship will destroy you. You are being used. You have been warned.
When I read that you sold
When I read that you sold your home and moved to be with her and her kids my heart sank to my stomach. What is your business and can it be transferable if you have to move again? Rags said it best. I understand you love her but someone else loved her before you (and possibly someone else before that) and something ended those relationships. Do not live under the illusion that you are "the one" when there were other "the ones" before you came along.
Love isnt enough! most of us
Love isnt enough! most of us on this site will tell you over and over again. I loved my ex and still do but it doesnt change the fact he is a shit dad and his son is even worse. If you cant disccuss things with your GF now about her children , you never will be able to ,,, and honestly i dont think she cares by the sound of it,,,,why would she care,, you gave up everything to move to her home,, she doesnt have to go anywhere if you split up. I lived for 8 years with a man who sounds exactly like your GF,, trust me it only gets worse and the only person who will lose from this crap relationship is you ! sounds like your already losing anyway,, it just depends how long you want to drag it out for
Nailed it. Why would she
Nailed it. Why would she change anything ? You jumped at the chance to give up everything you had and move for her and her kids. She really does not care because she knows you will kowtow to her and her kids regardless. Why would she change a thing? This relationship is one sided. It will only get worse. Hook, line, sink. Yikes! Here is a question? Do you think if you quit helping her with her bills she would turn on you? I would be very curious to hear her exes side of the story as to why their relationship did not work out.
Love isn't enough. Well at
Love isn't enough. Well at least now you know why she was single
Maybe if she got off her phone and put half of that attention towards her kids, and partner, she would still be with her ex and her kids wouldn't be inconsiderate spoiled brats who are still sleeping with mommy.