deeds vs mortgage
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Good Morning -
I am engaged and fiancee bought a condo with a mortgage. We have been designing and decorationg it every step of the way. 1.5 years. I have worked very hard with him on the design from top to bottom. We are to close in 3 weeks and now he tells me I cant be on the deed becasue I will be resonsible for the hefty mortgage. I dont think this is true.
He has said this is ours from the begining and I do not feel it is OURS if I am not on the deed.
Cant I be on the deed and not be resonsible for the mortgage?
Thanks
Yep.
At least in my state I've done it twice.
yes - I can be on deed not
yes - I can be on deed not mortgae. we are in florida.
I believe it is possible.
I believe it is possible. But, planning work aside.. are you financially contributing to the purchase of the home? Even if the Mortgage is in his name... would you be paying that mortgage or a share of it. are you putting your own money into the downpayment or fixup costs?
If the home is being bought as a married couple.. (or impending married couple).. I would have thought that both would contribute to the purchase equally and both be cosigners on the mortgage and both on the deed.
I think you and your fiancee need to perhaps work with a financial counselor to understand how finances will work in your relationship. What he is doing is not wrong.. if he is the one taking on the mortgage.. he isn't obligated to put you.. or anyone else on the deed. Estate planning and division of financial responsibilities in the home is something you need to figure out before you are married. If his goal is to leave the home to his kids and leave you out of it.. and you contributed to the purchase financially.. you may need to understand what this all means.
ooohhh I just looked briefly
ooohhh I just looked briefly at your other post.. he still has joint credit cards with his EX??? and a joint checking account??? Why on earth is that even a thing. I mean.. there is no requirement that a married couple have joint anything.. what the what??? that is crazy... and you are looking at 2 more years? uh..no.
IN retrospect.. you probably don't need to be on that deed. Don't join yourself financially with a man that is financially linked so closely to his EX. You should just pay a reasonable amount of "rent" to him.. (if you even want to stick around through this mess).. and share of utilities etc.. I can see why he doesn't want to put you on the deed if you have no financial responsibility for the home via mortgage.
But - my DH is on the
But - my DH is on the mortgage and both of us are on the deed. We both help to pay the mortgage. Is the OP living there rent-free? If not, then he's not the only one paying the mortgage.
Is she paying for upkeep for the home? Then she should be on the deed. I don't disagree that his finances are poor and she shouldn't join up with him, but the idea that if he's the only name on the mortgage he should be the only one on the deed makes no sense.
My reasoning is less to do
My reasoning is less to do with who holds the mortgage really vs the financial enmeshment he has with his wife... she is not his EX yet.. they are still married.. even if he has separated and is now engaged. I think he needs to be legally done with his EX. Not in the prudish scarlet letter way.. but in the... the EX has strings on his finances way.
Given this experience with his "ex" I can see him being gun shy re the new property.. Unless she is equitably contributing financially to the purchase and upkeep of the home... I don't see an issue with not having the joint deed.. at least not now... If she pays a reasonable "rent".. with no additional input to other home upkeep costs that isn't totally unfair.
But, they need to be on the same page.. will he be willing to add her to the deed once they get actually married for example?
I personally wouldn't marry
I personally wouldn't marry someone who was too "gun shy" to give me an equal stake in my own home. He's being withholding, is what he's doing.
To be honest.. he isn't
To be honest.. he isn't really fully freed up to be a full financial partner to OP given the fact that the EX still has her hands deep into his finances via CC and checking account... honestly.. that is just weird to me.. how can they mandate that you have a joint account with anyone. Those would be closed if it were me... I don't get that they could order it.
Well, that I agree with - SHE
Well, that I agree with - SHE should be the one who is gun shy. If he wants to hoard the assets from his new wife because he's afraid, he shouldn't be getting married again.
My guess is he won't get
My guess is he won't get married again....
Not to be my
Not to be my cynical self but I would be checking the stone on that "diamond" engagement ring.
I have been on the deed for
I have been on the deed for both of our houses but not on the mortgage of either. It is totally possible.
You are also correct, it is not in any way yours if you are not a legal owner. If you are not put on the deed then do not invest any more money into the property as you will reap no benifit from it. Pay something towards "rent" at a rate that is reasonable for your area and budget, split regular bills but don't pay for anything that a landlord should cover.
Yes you can
Mortgage is with the bank. Deed is with the government, that keeps track of property ownership. You will not be able to sell the house until the mortgage is payed off. That can be done at closing
interesting bc he said that i
interesting bc he said that i cant be on the deed bc the lender a big bank and this is a big mortgage wont allow it.
LIE.
LIE. The lender could care less who is on the deed. All they care about is who is legally obligated to pay and that is who is on the mortgage.
Actually, it's possible the
Actually, it's possible the lender may have a restriction on it.. because there is risk that if the extra person on the deed gets in trouble with the IRS or something they could put a lien on this property.. which might impact the lender's ability to collect etc..
Then they just foreclose.
Then they just foreclose. That's their method of obtaining the money. The IRS can't stop the bank from selling a house that they own. If the owner has any equity, perhaps they can go after that once the house has sold, but the person on the deed doesn't own the house unless it's paid off.
We didn't have to notify the bank that DH was putting me on the deed. They don't know or care.
He is wrong. DH already owned
He is wrong. DH already owned our house when we married, and he put me on the deed, but not on the mortgage.
If you aren't married, you will have zero equity in the house if you split up/he dies, if you aren't on the deed. Stop paying for anything until he agrees to put you on the deed.
You can be on the deed
You can be on the deed without being responsible for the mortgage. Does your fiance already own the condo and have the mortgage? If so, what exactly is the closing for? If it's a new acquisition, it's possible that the lender could require both of you to be on the mortgage as a condition to making the loan.
If you put ANY financial
If you put ANY financial support towards this house - whether that be contributing to the mortgage payments, helping upgrade the kitchen, even buying a can of paint - you NEED to be on the deed. Since hs is still married, it's possible that if he were to die tomorrow that BM would get the house. You'd be SOL if you aren't on the deed since she's still legally his wife.
No deed = no financial contribution. A deed protects your financial interests. Until you're vested in the property, DO NOT contribute to it in any way, shape, or form.
While I agree this situation
While I agree this situation would give me pause.. him still being married etc.. I don't see this as hugely different than moving into someone's home who already owns it... would most people automatically add their spouse to their existing deed... especially people who may have been taken to the cleaners by prior partners? and.. is it reasonable for her to live in a home and not pay anything because it is covering part of the mortgage vs paying part of rent if they rented an apt together?
I think the red flags here have everything to do with his wife that is still legally that.. and even to the point of having joint accounts mandated. If he is asking OP for money for the downpayment.. yeah.. THAT is a problem.. but if it is merely him expecting her to cover a reasonable rent since she will be sharing the home? I don't think that's wrong.
It would be like me having a new BF move in and him stating he won't pay money for rent because he isn't on the deed... actually I literally had a BF use that logic on me one time.. I ended it. I do think she needs to look out for financial interests.. but if she isn't contributing to renovation or downpayment... and the guy is still married? yikes.. not sure I would expect to be on the deed right now.. but if at some point in the future she contributes to a renovation etc.. that needs to be discussed.
Hmmm... I would be more
Hmmm... I would be more interested in why he doesn't want you on it.The deed means you are legally an owner (ex. he can't kick you out, if you sell you get the profit too, stays in your name if he dies,etc.)
A mortgage is your financial obligation. If your BF is not wanting you to have that "hefty" mortgage, then fine, just his name can be on the mortgage. I am calling his bluff on that one though.
If he is comfortable "footing the bill" then let him! Don't pay a dime, and remind him if he ever brings up "your share" etc. Also, just know it the back of your mind if it ever DOESN'T work out, you don't owe him either!
You can be on the deed
You can be on the deed without being on the mortgage.
What is rent
What is rent for a place suitable to your needs in your area? NOT that type of house but what you would rent if he was not in the picture. That is what you should be paying him plus a contribution to utilities - again what an apartment would use - not a big house. Renovations, taxes, general maintenance is on him since it is HIS house. You just live there. If he doesn't like that then he can put you on the deed.
Honestly, the thought of moving in and sharing finances with a still-married man who still has financial entangelments with his wife would make me incredibly nervous. Especially if he was not even willing to put your name on the deed so that you would have ownership rights superior to his wife's if something happens to him! And you are supposed to be engaged? Girl......
Groundhog Day?
Groundhog Day?
This is scary. I posted in a
This is scary. I posted in a blog recently about the sister of a very good friend of ours. The sister's husband had been narried before and lost his son and everything else in the divorce.
He was open that he would never go through that again if he ever remarried In conjuction with his brother and BFF he proceeded on a campaign of "crazy making"against his second wife. He perpetuated a multiple decades campaign of gas lighting, alienating their own 5 children againster her, kept her pregnant though she had severe PPD, and eventually drove her nuts to the point she was institutionalized several times and just a couple of weeks ago successfully commited suicide on her 6th attempt.
She had filed for divorce but the divorce was not yet final. Her husband had already been given emergency custody of the 4 of their children that are minors.
If this is the first incident, it is one too many.
Take care of you.
It's scary to me how
It's scary to me how so many talk about marriage like a business partner. I know some are going to jump on that and say it is.
Second marriages get that stigma even worse!! I get fed up with hearing how when people divorce and they were married many years raised kids etc. that one spouse or the other is entitled to their retirement. If for example someone stayed home. REALLY? I don't believe in that at all!! Done is done!!! would it be viewed the same in a second marriage if they were married 20 plus years and had kids? No people would be arguing that what they had when they came to the marriage was their's and so on.
With that said yes you can be on the deed and not the mortgage and yes you should expect to be. All circumstances are different but if her soon to be DH makes more money than she does it is not wrong that he pays more but that it's still her house. She may pay other things and what she can afford to pay. It's not a business at 50/50 in how bills are paid it's a marriage. DH and I just pay different things. I moved into his house and wouldn't have unless I was on the deed. He just did it there was no issue with it. We refinanced and I was on the mortgage before it was paid off but he paid it and I paid other things. Was it 50/50 or even discussed? No. To me it is very "conditional" to set these expectations on a marriage and to me marriage is mostly unconditional except for the biggies like cheating and abuse.
most people are here in
most people are here in stepland because first marriages (or more than one) didn't work out. It's not inconcievable that some people would want to protect their interests when they now have the scales lifted from their eyes about "till death do us part".
Does that mean he isn't ready for a relationship? maybe partly.. but plenty of people go into a marriage with a prenup.. which codifies certain property that may be exclusive to one party or the other.
If the only investment that OP has made is an emotional one.. and aside from a reasonable "rent" contribution, she is not paying towards the downpayment.. or renovation/repair budget for the home.. then I don't have a huge issue with her BF wanting this in his name. He literally is still married to another woman who has her hands deep into his financial pockets. At this point, they are looking at 2 more years of this set up? If they were a married couple and buying a home he didn't want to put her name on.. I might have more of an issue with that concept.. but they aren't married.. and it doesn't sound like she is putting money into this place other than there may be some expectation that she pay rent. Now, if I were her, I would insist that he consider the fact that she would want to have her name on the deed in the event that they every actually do become married.... but in their unmarried state.. where he is still married to another woman? and if she isn't putting her money up? I don't see this as something he should have to do.. it in a sense becomes property that he would be acquiring before their marriage. (emotional involvement and planning aside).
Contact a lawyer so you are
Contact a lawyer so you are solid in your knowledge about real estate law and estate planning. Then call his bluff.
Mandate that in order to get
Mandate that in order to get married you must be on the deed. I don't see why it's a problem for you to be on the mortgage. My dh pays for everything and put me on the mortgages for his other homes and accounts he owns. The lenders don't care if you don't work, the problem is your dh is being sneaky and wants to have separate property from you. Big red flag. I would make a list of all of the financial demands that must be met before marriage since this guy is playing hardball. 1. Your name must be on the deed (maybe that means being on the mortgage too). Your name must be on his bank accounts, investment accounts, life insurance, etc. 3. He must have no financial ties to his ex! 4. Pull his credit and see if there is anything on there that he must pay off.
There is nothing wrong with making demands before agreeing to marry him. If he doesn't comply then he doesn't want you that bad. Best to find out now rather than later. Good luck!
Deed and mortgage are not
Deed and mortgage are not related. The deed documents the ownership of the property while the mortgage is the document that creates a secrurity interest in the property for the lender until the debt associated with the property is retired. You can be on the deed and not on the mortgage. Though in that case if your DH kicks the bucket and there remains a mortgage on the property you have to pay it or the bank takes it.
Do not fail to go on the deed and immediately stop all investing of your time and money in the property. Inform your DH that either he puts you on the deed immediatley or he cuts you a check for all of the money and time you have invested his HIS home. Don't forget interest on that money since you would have earned a return on that money had you invested it in the markets.
Put your foot down. Be ready to take all of your belongings and leave if he balks. Make sure to file a service lien on his home for your time, money, etc......
Speak with an attorney so that you have things clearly as you move forward on this action.
Considering his financial
Considering his financial background... this is what I would do. Don't get on the deed or the mortgage. But also don't contribute to ANY repairs, renovations, maintaince, etc. I would essentially just "pay rent". Not even half though since he has SKs. I would do a portion towards utilities too. It might sound like a bummer that you don't have any "assests", but look at it as you can get out with a totally clean slate if you need to. No liability and no strings attached. Ultimately you aren't responsible at all for the property and aren't tied to him legally.
I don't get a good feeling
I don't get a good feeling from any of this. It is probably best you don't join the mortgage with him either.