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AshMar654's picture

Well I am feeling very sad and down today. We got the dog and have had her for almost two weeks. Unfortunately things are not going well.

Her and our current dog get along so great, two peas in a pod. She barks at the cats, she lunges at the cat, she stares in a very stiff manor. At first she ignored and things were great the first few days but as she is getting more comfortable she sees them through the gate she she lunges and barks at times.

She has a shock collar that she was trained with and we use it we have to hit multiple times to correct her. It is getting worse and not better. I feel horrible about all this. I really want to keep her because she is so sweet and great with our other dog. She listens and behaves. I am just sad that I know we can not keep her.

I just feel in my gut that keeping her will lead to more stress for the cats, shocking her way more, and possibly even the aggressive behavior could wear off on our other dog. I don't know just so bummed. I know our dog will be really upset when she leaves. Just wish this didn't suck to much.

Comments

DaizyDuke's picture

We have 4 cats (thanks to my DH.ugh) and two rescue German Shepherds.  Our older, male GSD doesn't care about the cats for the most part, but sometimes will chase one if given the opportunity.  Our younger, female GSD that we just got last year will chase the cats every chance she gets.... but so what?  That's what dogs and cats do.  I mean the cats just run and hide and the dog moves on to sleeping, eating, or something else. 

I don't understand why you'd have to get rid of a dog because it chases cats?

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Unfortunately, that causes stress for the cats which can lead to kitty problems, such as not using the litter box because It's A Trap.

AshMar654's picture

The cats are pretty stressed out right now. They are way more clingy than they have ever been. They were not this bad when we introduced my SO's dog into the home.

I just have a gut feeling if one got lose or jumped the gate when we were not paying attention we would not be able to stop. Why keep putting her through it when she could go to a home with no small animals. I think her best chance is to be in home with no cats.

beebeel's picture

The dog needs to be crated every time he harasses the cats. I have never seen a shock collar be effective.

ETA: if it is becoming worse it is probably because now the dog associates the cats with pain (from being shocked).

HowLongIsForever's picture

Did I read that correctly that she's only been in your home for less than two weeks?  That's not much time considering how quickly her whole world has changed.

Was it known whether or not she had prior exposure to cats?

Are you willing to work with her on her exposure and experience with cats?  The little bit you describe doesn't sound as though her behavior with them is predatory.   She can very likely be taught to peacefully coexist with cats if you're willing to make the effort.

What's the story on the shock collar? Though not something I prefer to use, in theory shock collars can have their place in training when used correctly.  It sounds as if she is (or on the way to becoming) desensitized to it which means it is/has not been used correctly.  If that's what she came with it was probably used as a correction every single time for every single interaction and without appropriate release and redirection.  Timing is everything.  If she's sweet natured and wants to please she will likely excel with redirection and positive reinforcement.

If you believe the living situation is not in everybody's best interest (including those cats)  or you don't have the time and/or ability to work with her on it then get her back to the rescue ASAP so she can find her forever home.  The longer she is with you when parting is inevitable the harder it is going to be on everybody.

Just remember there are no quick fixes.  Even if you part with her that doesn't change that she needs to learn how to control her interest/impulse around cats, it just removes the inconvenience from your home.  Dogs want to be good.  Set her up with the best chance of succeeding, even if that's not with you.

Good luck.  

AshMar654's picture

The shock is the last option. We use verbal commands to say no and the collar was suppose to be the last option. We have been working with positive reinforcement and redirection. It started with her ignoring and now each day it is getting a little worse.

We had to work with our current dog on exposure with the cat and everything else. He behavior towards them was always curious, wanted to chase a little but just more interested in what they are. They have to be supervised and watched and we are still working on it.

The new dog, in my gut feel that she may not acclimate well with cats. We did the verbal before going to shocking. I know it has been a short time but her barking and lunging is aggressive to the point my cats are running and hiding under my bed. They are getting very clingy with me, they are not venturing out of the bedroom much unless they know for sure she is crated away. I do not blame this new dog at all, I even offered to give her rave reviews, I just think she is better in home without cats. She has a high prey drive. She has darted at small animals in the backyard and sniff out things, found a rabbits nest in no time.

I understand no quick fixes. I think her best chance at succeeding is to not be with us. Thank you

Cover1W's picture

My ex and I fostered a dog for about 2 months before we had to give him back - it was heartbreaking because he was a good dog overall, but he would not leave the cats alone.  He'd go into "hunt posture" every single time and we tried everything to stop it.  My cats are big babies too so they don't fight back - our boy kitty would just hide and I was worried our girl kitty would get hurt as the dog went for her side/stomach area every time. He ended up in a great home, with no cats!

AshMar654's picture

Thank you this really helps. I have a bleeding heart for animals. Like I said I really like her and I want to keep her but she too gets in the hunt posture. I talked with the adoption agency and she even said to me that is sounds like it is becoming a stressful situation.

Now that they know she focuses on cats, barks at them, and get into a stance they will make sure she is not with cats. Again thank you this made me feel better.

HowLongIsForever's picture

Sorry for the multiple posts, I got stuck on a conference call.  But there are two things I wanted to specifically address from your post: 

You said:

"She barks at the cats, she lunges at the cat, she stares in a very stiff manor. At first she ignored and things were great the first few days but as she is getting more comfortable she sees them through the gate she she lunges and barks at times."  - This is most likely a curiosity combined with insecurity.  From what you describe her body language is not aggression.

Also, chances are this is her real reaction to them.  It's not that she's gotten worse it's that things were so chaotic and new for her that they were not previously on her radar.  She's had time to begin to collect herself and now she's trying to make sense of it.

You said:

"She has a shock collar that she was trained with and we use it we have to hit multiple times to correct her. It is getting worse and not better."   -This is exactly how shock collars are not intended to be used.  Any pressure system is only effective when applied and released at the exact time necessary.  The dog has no idea why she's being shocked or what she needs to do in order for it to stop so she ignores it until she can't.  Your message is not getting through to her.  Please stop using it.

Generally speaking, most training aids easily available to the public are ineffective at best and destructive at worse.  That's because the general public is not properly educated on the aid or how to use it.  And that's okay.  As long as you take the time to learn.  No training aid is meant to be permanent.  Short cuts teach an animal nothing but how to evade their discomfort.  

Please do some research, even contact some local trainers for consultation so you can make an appropriate decision on whether or not this girl is truly the right fit for your family.  This dog is nowhere near a lost cause from what you say, she just needs someone to make the effort.

marblefawn's picture

I just went through a lot of soul searching and advice about adding a second dog to our household. The women at this very established and responsible rescue said that it can take a few months for things to settle down and for everyone to fall into where they will be. In time, they said, all the animals realize the new animal is a permanent fixture and they mellow when they become used to them being around.

I understand your fear for your cats and your other dog, but maybe consider giving it more time for everyone to figure out the pecking order and settle in, especially because your new dog and so good for your first dog.

I wish you luck -- in the end, I decided not to add a second dog, but really because my dog became very sick right after we started the adoption process and I thought I needed to focus on him. I still wonder if I did the right thing by not adopting another now that my dog's irritable bowel "event" is getting better.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Ash, besides the shock collar, are you doing anything else when the dog gets aggressive with the cats? Some dogs can become tolerant of VERY high shock (NOT a fan of those anyway). I have seen dogs learn to tolerate the shock of a wireless fence.

So, are you doing anything else besides the shock collar? Spray bottle of water? Verbal command?

AshMar654's picture

Shock collar is the last resort for us. We use mostly verbal commands. I get it is all new to her and things were crazy and hectic. She has a high prey drive, my SO and I have both seen that.

When we went looking for a dog we both wanted one that would just kinda ignore the cats and not worry. Our current dog and our one kinda play through the gate. My oldest cat will sit at the gate and meow till our dog comes over all excited gets down in is play mode and cat will hit him on the nose several times. No claws or anything just a tiny bop on the nose. They are good. This happens almost daily and new dog saw this last night and took it as an open invite to really go at the gate. I was able to stop that one, later in the day our dog got happy to see the other calm cat in the hall way was whining at it a little and new dog lunged and barked after we said no several times and we had to shock twice to get her to break from it.

I do not want to keep using that collar as a way to get her to behave just to fit in out home. I really think she will have a much better chance in a home with out small scurrying animals. I know it has been a short time you know sometimes you just have that gut feeling that it is just not right. I have it and so does my SO. I talked with the organization, they are being very nice and totally understanding. They said they have a few people they are going to meet and greet with her, none of them have cats.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

It's only been a couple of weeks. Maybe your new dog should be crated and the cats allowed free reign around the crate, so the dog gets used to the cats and sees that the cats belong. It might help. Two weeks is a very short time to expect a new furbaby to acclimate.

AshMar654's picture

I know it is not long, I really do trust me. My SO and I both feel guilty for shocking her with the collar and say no at the same time. She gets it is not allowed but I think her instincts are kicking in and over ruling. I want to give it more time, I really do. I want this to work and I want to keep her. The rational part of my brain knows deep down she is not the best fit for our home. We need a dog that has been around cats and show not interest in them. That is partly because my one cat is a lot to handle. I say he is vocal I mean he is vocal. Has been since I got him.

My SO and I were able to work with his dog on this. He never barked at them, and once we did a 6 week training course with him we were able to better manage him and work with him and the cats. Both the cats get into these high screeching tussles and make a ton of noise. I do not think it is just her I also have to high energy cats to make a lot of noise and meow and crave attention.

I think the new dog, she will be much happier and better in home with out small creatures.