OT - BS17 driving me insane....Getting him to college may actually break me.
We know where he wants to go. We know he will get in. He wants a backup plan. Fine. We had one worked out, but they do not have a degree program that makes sense for him. I have insisted on an engineering degree in order to ensure he gets a job. For what he wants to do it makes the most sense, since if he gets the degree he wants, he has to have a doctorate or at the very least a Masters. If he has a degree in Biomedical Engineering instead of Biology, he can get a job. A real job that pays money and would probably pay for his other degrees. I am done when he finishes undergrad.
He has a 4.1 and plenty of extra curriculars. He is panicking that he won't get in. I have talked to many people and he is fine. All the AP classes will help as well.
Last night he freaked out about his backup plan since, the other school has only a basic biology degree and I won't help him. So I have to let him get a biology degree. Hell NO! I told him I will cut him off if he does that.
I have a friend whose son graduated with one and he is still sitting on their couch two years later....Not going to happen. He will get into the school we want and get in the program that makes the most sense. It is the number 7 public university in the country. He needs to stay in state in order to get the HOPE scholarship. It will pay half. He will get scholarships, so he is getting cocky. Told me last night, there is nothing I can do if he switches his major after 18. I looked at him after arguing back and forth for twenty minutes, that I will cut him off. No money, no insurance on your car and no car. Good luck. Told him I will not fill out a single form for him ever again.
He refuses to get a job and is planning on volunteering at the hospital all summer. I pay for everything for him. He is expensive. I know I could complain about drugs, girls etc. But, I can't right now I am dealing with a child who thinks he is entitled to whatever he wants. I am so close to the edge with him.
I truly believe that they know absolutely everything at this age in an attempt to make us want them to move out so we do not suffer "Empty Nest Syndrome".....
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I would guess when he is self
I would guess when he is self sufficient and doesn't need mom or dad to help pay for things?
When he grows up and doesn't
When he grows up and doesn't need my help. But, right now, he needs me to fill out every damn form and give him spending money, pay his insurance, maintain his car. Just paid for a new alternator and brakes are about to happen as well.
If we let him make this mistake and get a basic biology degree when he wants to be a microbiologist or an epidemiologist and it doesn't work and he can't get a decent job without a doctorate, I have failed him.
I will not fail this child.
With all due respect, I think
With all due respect, I think you may be failing this child...because you are not teaching him how to be self sufficient. You are teaching him how to be dependent, long after he should.
At the absolute very least, your son should be filling out forms. Period. Not you.
He should learn how to replace the brakes on his car. He should NOT be getting all of his spending money from mommy.
Damn, this is starting to sound like an episode of "Mama's Boys" or whatever that new show is called.
JSmom, your actions are crippling him and keeping him a child. He needs to become a man. Please help him do that.
(Or you may wind up hearing a DIL whining about how he wants her to "take care of him" all the time!)
I want to add here a personal tidbit: I was like your son at that age. I had a 4.2 GPA, graduated valedictorian, tons of EC's, etc. A stepford child.
My parents were just like you. They knew what was best for me. My decisions had to be made for me. I had to do what they wanted and how or I was on my own. I entered adulthood having ZERO confidence in any decisions I made. I didn't trust myself to make those decisions and had to look to them, or others, for direction on what I should do.
In my case, I was stubborn enough that I just said "screw it" and did what I wanted and was totally on my own. I needed to learn how to be an adult, make decisions, and live with those decisions.
And I wouldn't have had it any other way.
The kid is self sufficient.
The kid is self sufficient. I do nothing for him, except his laundry. And honestly, that is only because I do it for SS and DH and myself. He does know how, I made sure of that.
He gets himself up, I do none of that and haven't for many years. He maintains himself fine. But, when it comes to the FAFSA form, I have to do that. As for the scholarship Apps. I have told him he has to do them. But, I will have to be on him every step of the way. That is just how he is.
I have failed him in that he thinks a job and money will just be handed to him.
If the attitude doesn't change, his car is being sold....
Did you delete my comment? If
Did you delete my comment?
If so, I'm just saying that filling out his forms and giving him spending money does not a self sufficient child make.
I didn't delete anything...
I didn't delete anything...
i agree with your last line
i agree with your last line completely. i've said the same thing before. kids are programmed to be jerks as teens so that parents hearts won't be completely broke when the kids move out. when bd17 was little, the thought of her growing up and leaving was heartbreaking. now, not so much. same with bs4. i never want him to leave! ask me how i feel in 13 years. maybe it will be different!
My nephew went into
My nephew went into engineering. He lasted 1 semester because his heart wasn't in it. Now he has changed to a nursing programme and is jumping ahead in leaps and bounds. This has broken his parent's hearts but this is his life, not theirs.
As long as he is successful and honest and law abiding, isn't that all we can wish for? My VERY bright SS19 is attending Comm College for a CDL this summer. It is beyond me why he would choose this but right now, this is his passion.
Stop paying everything for him. Tell him he is covered for the next month then he will have to come up with something to assist his expensive lifestyle.
And surely he should be filling out his own forms and paperwork?
Because, who REALLY wants to go to this college? You or him?
He wants to go to this
He wants to go to this school. If I had my choice, he would live at home and go to a university close to us. This is not what I want. But, I know what he wants to do with his life and this is the best way to go about it. It is a great school. He is brilliant, getting through the program will not be a problem.
He is stubborn and knows everything. This school was exactly what he wants. I am thinking now that his backup school may have to be out of state. That will cost a fortune and I am really hoping to do his undergrad without him taking on loans. He can take out loans for his advanced degrees.
If I am willing to sacrifice for him, than I have input on the degree he gets.
I doubt him deciding who he
I doubt him deciding who he marries is going to cost her thousands of dollars, unless he wants her to help pay the shipping costs for a mail order bride.
I see both sides of this, because I am somewhat in this sitation. I made DS get a job, once I thought he was feeling a little too "entitled", and he does pay for his own activities.
he chose his major-I really don't care, he is the one that has to be happy in what he does for a living-but I will have some say so and input when grades come out. If I am paying for it, there will be full disclosure on passing/failing/ just squeaking by.
I have a son at the same
I have a son at the same place in his life. He's actually doing a program in HS where he takes college classes as well, and will be 3/4 of the way to an AA by the time he graduates HS.
I fully understand wanting the absolute best for your child.
It sounds an awful lot like you are the one driving this bus and telling him what he will and will not study. :? College is a LONG time and takes a big committment. If you choose something, and DS isn't 110% into it, he won't do well and he'll likely wind up hating it. I agree that having a job with a good income is important, but is it more important than your son's happiness? If he gets a Master's degree, that's 6 years of study on paper, but really, it will be more. Let's just say 7 years. SEVEN years of studying something that YOU chose for him. Then what? He gets a job. Do you want it to be a job/career that HE wants or that you want? Do you want him spending the rest of his life toiling at a job he dislikes?
My son knows what he wants to do for a career. He has a plan and a path, and I encourage and guide him to classes and colleges that will help him meet HIS goal. I will not set life goals for my son. He is going to be an adult in a matter of months, and I want to encourage him and give him the tools to find his own way.
What's the worst that could happen if you let your son steer his own ship?
(Stop "paying for everything" for him if he's so entitled. It's really that simple.)
The whole behavior thing is
The whole behavior thing is called "fouling the nest." I have one going off to college this summer-I feel your pain.
Now, whenever he gets an attitude, I just tell him "stop pooping in your nest." It drives him crazy, LOL.
"(Stop "paying for
"(Stop "paying for everything" for him if he's so entitled. It's really that simple.)"
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I agree with this. At 17, if he isn't willing to work to pay his insurance, maintain his car, & earn his spending money, he shouldn't get it. ANY of it.
I don't mean to offend, & I hope I don't, but it kind of sounds like you're doing these things to keep control of him & his choices.
He needs to start taking care of himself before you turn him loose, so that he'll have some experience & so that he'll have learned some of those lessons in responsibility while he still has some cushion for the hard knocks.
He thinks he entitled because you've taught him that he is. Stop giving him everything & he won't expect it.
Forcing him into a program he doesn't want to be in is going to be a waste. If he has no interest in it, he won't have the drive to do his best. If he doesn't do his best, he'll end up with a half-assed degree & forced into a future of jobs he'll never be able to enjoy.
It sucks to wake up every day with no motivation to face a job I hate but have to go to because it's all I have prior experience in.
Why not have him take out loans that HE would be responsible for paying back & let him get into the program HE chooses?
I think you are all
I think you are all misunderstanding me. THis is the program that he needs to do to get a job...If he gets a basic degree he has to go on for more schooling. He can do that on his own dime. I am not paying. So the undergrad degree needs to be a degree that he can get a job.
He has in his head, that he can take all these loans out. He doesn't understand they take years to pay off and significantly affect your life. I am trying to prevent that. If I had my way he would be going to medical school. So trust me this is not what I want....
If I pay for this, he has to get a degree in something that will get him a job. A biology degree will not in this economy.
I don't have to worry about his grades, he has always pushed himself harder than I ever could.
What is frustrating me is we had a plan all worked out. Picked the first two schools and the back-ups last week. Toured the campus. We were on the same page. He goes to the movies with his friends yesterday and somehow he is freaking out....That I can not tell him what degree to get.
As for controlling him. I don't. But, I do make sure he understands how I feel and where my money will go. Not to a biology degree. Biomedical Engineering - Yes. Biology - Hell NO!
I have friends that work for the CDC and that is his goal. They all balked when he mentioned a Biology degree. Told him he would never get hired with that unless he wanted to only focus on research. They told him to get this degree at this school. Not me....
My DH and I are on the same page with this. He did tell me that is SS13 wants a Philosophy degree or an Art Degree or some other nonsense, he will not help him either.
Sorry, but it is great to work in a field you love, but it is also great to be able to get a job in it.
Also, try to remember that his father is deceased. His brother is deceased. So yes, I have sacrificed everything for this child, I will not watch him throw his future down the drain. Not with the intelligence he has and the motivation to succeed, just because he is 17 and thinks he knows everything. Then the last ten years would have been in vain.
I think everything we have
I think everything we have said went right over your head.
I think we DO understand where you're coming from.
Yes, he can take out a bunch of loans. He could do whatever HE wants with HIS life, actually. You don't have to live it.
::sigh::
I just don't think you get it. Or your DH. I think it's a travesty that you both want to control your children's choices well into adulthood.
He CAN'T take out a bunch of
He CAN'T take out a bunch of loans, not without a co-signer. God, I am so sick of people saying this. The most a freshman can get in his name ALONE is the Stafford loan, which is $5500.00 a year. Anything else needs a co-signer, or a parent has to take out a Parent Plus loan.
So yes, in almost every single case where there is no scholarship money involved, the parent will be on the hook for some of it. I think some of you don't "get it."
So sick??? I wonder if the
So sick???
I wonder if the FAFSA EFC determines student loan availability for students. I know of freshmen who have qualified for larger student loans without a cosigner.
I "get it." I currently have THREE in my household in college.
Four, if you include the step.
The FAFSA EFC determines loan
The FAFSA EFC determines loan eligibility for that household. That is why Staffords and parent plus loans get offered, as well as other loans. Show me in this economy where they give a fresh out of high school kid a loan in their name alone that isn't a subsidized or unsubsidized Stafford loan.
And yes, sick. As in, disgusted with the stupidity of people who think 18 year olds can sign $20,000.00 loans on their own.
Aha, I think I found it. The
Aha, I think I found it. The loans are sub and unsub Staff loans. I believe that comes from the EFC.
Do I think 18 year olds should sign 20K loans? No. If it's the only way to get to college? Yes.
Isn't it possible, Agg, that not everyyone has the exact same experience as you?
He can not get student loans
He can not get student loans without my signature. He also can not get considered for financial aid, without my income documents or DH's. Not helping him make a mistake.
Like I said, an 18 year old
Like I said, an 18 year old can't sign a $20,000.00 loan, unless they are employed making a significant sum of money already. Hence the parental family involvement.
And seriously? You are asking ME if I could consider someone not having the same experience as me?? ROFLMAO-coming from you, that is rich.
You have literally beat OP about the head with your opinion, inferred that she is a shitty parent, and given your opinion about 20 times. How about you turn that mirror around on yourself?
.
They also don't realize that
They also don't realize that even the Scholarship money, only comes if you apply for them. There are countless scholarships out there. But, they don't come on their own. Honestly, as self sufficient as he is, I don't see him filling out all the forms on his own. He is still a teenage boy who does procrastinate.
He did Eagle on his own and he does get A's on his own, since I have not been able to understand his homework since the 5th grade. But, I know filling out those forms will not happen on his own. Let alone all the essays. Yes - he will do them. But, honestly it will be pulling teeth. As of today, we have a list of possible scholarships for him that have over 15 groups that he is eligible for.
What 17 year old boy do you know that will fill out 17 applications and write 17 essays? Yes I know that some of the essays can be used multiple times. If he does all of this, he will get plenty of money for his undergrad.
I know how you feel, but in
I know how you feel, but in some things you are going to have to let him sink or swim. The caveat is, if he doesnt apply for scholarships, that is more money out of YOUR pocket, so it's a Catch 22.
I have had to bite the bullet with DS, and make him take rsponsibility. It was hard, but it had to be done. I had nightmares of him having to go to the dr's office at college and not having a clue on how to fill out a form.
Check with local credit
Check with local credit unions and businesses for scholarships. We've gotten one through my employer and through one of our banks. Those don't show on any scholarship registry, but they are out there.
Good luck!
I agree, college is expensive.
(And, yes, try to use the same essays as much as possible...)
The list for the scholarships
The list for the scholarships is long. He is entitled to apply for quite a few. The ones for Eagles and Boy Scouts would pay most of his first two years. Not to mention that his father is deceased and so he is entitled from one just on that with his fathers company. There are many, the problem is getting him to apply for them. I can not do it all for him....
This kid does know how to fill out a form. He has no problem continuing to apply for these internships and the Eagle Process and Application alone prepared him for the college applications.
My thing is he needs to get as much money as he can now, because it dries up the last few years of school. He keeps saying he can just take out loans. As someone who works in finance, that statement is killing me.
Nothing went over my head.
Nothing went over my head. Trust me. But, I don't think you understand. As for the loans, did you have them? I did and they took years to pay off. I don't want that for him. Although, he may have to. But, a child that is talking about his doctorate, is talking about a lot of debt. If we can avoid that for undergrad, then he will not have as much later.
He was on the same page. This degree program is only taught at about 10 schools in the country. He will get in. THere is no doubt about that. He is just panicking and being obnoxious.
They are not adults until they are well in college. So until then, we still help them make their decisions.
Yep, have student loans. So
Yep, have student loans. So does DH.
Nevermind, JSmom. Raise your son as you see fit. Just don't be shocked when he falls on his face because he's never learned to stand on his own.
He stands fine on his own.
He stands fine on his own. Once he is accepted and on the right path he will be fine. We are truly arguing about his back up plan. Which honestly, he should not need.
This kid succeeds in everything he does. He will not fall on his face. I truly believe that he has sacrificed enough in his life, he is due to get the future he wants and deserves.
Understand that this kid lost everyone in three short years and has still managed to turn out great. Other than this new entitled attitude, I have never had a problem with him.
Ok, I'll bite. HOW and in
Ok, I'll bite.
HOW and in what ways is he standing on his own?
From what you've posted, it sounds like you hold his hand and walk him through everything.
And having family members die isn't really a determining factor in who he becomes...just like "children of divorce," kids who've been abandoned, abused, etc.
His choices will choose his way. But he isn't a "victim."
He is a victim. Trust me,
He is a victim. Trust me, and so am I. You have no clue....But, it is how we handle our losses that determine who we are. He does stand on his own. I pay for him. But, I do not sign him up for what he does. I do not drive him.
This kid, had a lot against him. The statistics on kids who lose a parent before the age of 10 were staggering for me. I was told to watch for suicide attempts in HS. I was told that at some point he would lash out. Be promiscous. None of this has happened.
I have been a helicopter mom. Sue me. Don't care. He is a 4.1 and he is going to do what he wants...
If it's just his backup plan,
If it's just his backup plan, why are you so up in his face about it? Why are you angsting about it at all?
Are you actually reading what
Are you actually reading what she is writing. HE WANTS TO WORK IN A PARTICULAR FIELD AND EVERYONE IN THAT FIELD HAS TOLD HIM THAT A BIOLOGY DEGREE WILL NOT GET HIM THERE!
Look at this point I am ready
Look at this point I am ready for him to go. I will not be attending classes with him...
I have no problem letting him get that degree, I am just not assisting in anyway if that is the path he chooses to go down.
Jsmom, you have no idea what
Jsmom, you have no idea what major will enable him to get a job in four years, and if he wants to do biology, then let him do biology. Jeez, woman, you'd think he was planning to major in underwater basket weaving. And btw, the best way to ensure that he'll NEVER consider engineering is to try to force him into engineering.
A bachelor's degree in a science is NOT "throwing his future down the drain". You are fortunate to have this child who is intelligent and motivated and ambitious -- don't alienate him any further by trying to control him any further.
Sorry disagree. Any kid can
Sorry disagree. Any kid can get a basic degree in Biology. Why would a child with this much potential want a basic degree?
I don't actually want him to get an engineering degree. I wanted Medical school. He didn't want it. I have to accept it. I want him to get the right degree for what he wants to do...Not waste four years getting the wrong one.
Any kid can get a basic
Any kid can get a basic degree in biology? Do you even read the boards here, with all the kids who don't even graduate from high school, the kids who've been arrested before they are 18, the kids who are pregnant before they are 18?
I have worked in higher ed for over 30 years, and I think you are not helping this child. Back off and let him find his own way. He's smart and you've given him values. Quit trying to control him.
I get it, JSMom. He is
I get it, JSMom. He is deciding what he wants to do for his future. He knows what job he wants. All JSMom is doing is helping him understand that to reach HIS goals he has to follow a certain path. And she isn't alone in saying "do it my way or I won't pay". I think that is pretty typical of parents willing to pay for an education. I know my parents (who didn't pay for any of my schooling) would never have agreed to pay for a degree that help very little promise of my getting a job. They let me live at home rent free during college but made it very clear that my degree better result in employment or I was on my own. How is that wrong? She is giving doing nothing but giving him the tools he needs to do what HE says HE wants. He chose the school. He chose the career path. Yet his choice of a major is not going to get him there. If any of your children wanted to get to the mall and then told you the route they were going to take and it took them 100 miles out of the way, wouldn't you try to steer them back to reality? That is all JSMom is doing here.
Thank you!!! I can not
Thank you!!! I can not believe I am being condemned for insisting that a child get the degree that makes the most sense for his future.
We did a lot of research, talked to people in the field. They all said not to get the BS in Biology. He would have to go on and get his doctorate then.
This way a Biomedical Engineering degree, he can get a good job when he graduates and get that company to pay for further schooling. I can not tell you how many people we talked to. The CDC is here and we have a lot of friends that work there. He wants to discover the next horrific disease. Well to do that, you have to get the right jobs....That only happens with the right schooling.
I wanted to major in English
I wanted to major in English Literature. I ended up getting an Accounting Degree. Now I work from home and get to watch my child grow up and contribute heavily to our financial situation. I'd say my parents pointed me in the right direction!
Except in this case the kid
Except in this case the kid knows what he wants to do for a living and can't do it with a simple biology degree. All JSMOm is doing is saying "look, you told me you want to do A. You can't do A with a biology degree and if you want to get to A, they you need to get a biomedical engineering degree. I am willing to help you with that.". I think everyone's decisions in these types of matters are based on a LOT of factors. JSMom is being beat up for deciding to NOT pay if he want get the degree he needs to have the future he wants and also being beat up for actually payingfor his car, insurance, etc. She can't win here. She has basically given him a lot of opportunity to study and do extracurriculars and get into the college he wants. She is paying for the car, the insurance, etc so he can study and get his college "resume" together to get into this program that he has all along said he wanted. She would be remiss to continue to allow him to take her money and then change the rules on his end. He's pulling a bait and switch. "Hey mom, I want to do this job in my future and I need to study hard and get into a great school so pay for all my needs and wants through high school" and then "Hey, mom, guess what now that you paid for everything I needed to get into that program, I'm going to say, screw it and major in something else". If it was a skid that did that to one of our SOs, we'd all be pissed as hell about the manipulation and entitlement.
I love that we all come here and bitch about skids who are handed everything and waste it and then when someone is actually trying to help their kid meet their goals in a RESPONSIBLE way rather than just continuing to hand him whatever he wants she is taking shit.
I did not force a job last
I did not force a job last year, so he could finish his Eagle Project and take the AP classes. He still doesn't have a job and now will be volunteering all summer in an internship at the hospital for the experience. Again for what he wants to do in life. I am trying to get him to get one for the summer. Last summer he was a camp counselor. He did that for the experience. It paid 500 for the whole summer.
I have always felt that I only pay for somethings. He does pay for his own gas with Birthday money, savings and grandparents handing him money. I don't give him an allowance anymore. Stopped when he turned 16.
I am not even saying he has to have a job his Freshman year. I want him to do well in his classes. I am saying he has to have a job sometime this year to save money for spending his Freshman year. I am not an ATM.
I have done everything I could, so that he could focus on his grades and extra-curriculars. But, I will not continue to sacrifice when he is not making sense....
Jsmom, Sorry you are getting
Jsmom,
Sorry you are getting so ganged up on. I wonder why some people are so concerned with this, to this level? Kind of freaky.
Anyway, I think it is commendable that at least you care enough about your kid to be worried to this extent. The same posters who are constantly telling SM's to back off and they are not the parent, also seem to have a problem when a parent IS a parent.
Raise your son how you like, you sound like a good mom who is just concerned for your son's future. None of us are perfect, and we all make mistakes. Maybe by the time school starts you can both find some middle ground that everyone will be happy with.
I'm grinning at the fact that
I'm grinning at the fact that even if Jsmom pays all the tuition and fees, FERPA says she doesn't get to know anything about his grades unless he signs a form saying that she can
Sorry to burst your bubble,
Sorry to burst your bubble, but as parents we CAN make our financial contributions contingent on full grade disclosure. No grade access=no money.
And the fact that you are "grinning" about it says worlds about your attitude. Bless your heart.
I he wants any of my money,
I he wants any of my money, that I could be putting towards my own retirement, he will sign that form....Just like I did for my parents.
Tell me about it. We pay for
Tell me about it.
) and she refuses to sign the FERPA form.
We pay for SD's college expenses (court ordered
Gotta love it.
Why does no one understand
Why does no one understand (Except a few of you - Thanks!) get that a basic biology degree does nothing unless you go on to school. My friend has two sons one got a Biology degree and one a Biochemical Engineering degree. Same school. One has a job with Exxon starting at 80K and moved him out to SF. The other one with the Biology degree has not done anything the last two years except work in Fast Food.
The dad is making him volunteer with scouting so he can actually put something on his resume. They have resigned themselves that he has to get another degree and they will have to help him pay for it....
That is not happening.
"Choose a job you LOVE and
"Choose a job you LOVE and you'll never have to work a day in your life."
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I cannot tell you how many times I've heard DH tell his son this, & it's true.
His parents told him if he didn't go to college he'd be left digging ditches. Damn if he doesn't spend his days in an excavator...digging ditches.
I can also confirm that there is success found in art degrees. My brother is an artist...a painter. He is able to work from a studio he built in his home & has had his work published in books, magazines, & he has placed a number of times in various art shows around the nation.
He is successful enough that his wife is able to stay home with their 4 children.
It took some time for him to build up to where he is, but it would've felt more like work had it not been something he loves to do.
I have a liberal arts degree.
I have a liberal arts degree. Couldn't get a job in my field. I temped and fell in love with Investment Banking. So I had to go on and take my Series 7 and 9 in order to do this. I made a mistake...I should have gotten a business degree with a Masters in Finance. But, it was too late. I had loans to pay off...so I had to get a job.
What if something happens and he doesn't go on to medical school? He can't get a job doing what he wants with a Biology degree. He just can't. If he wants to take time off before continuing his education, he will be able to support himself with an engineering degree. The starting salary for a Biomedical Engineering degree is 62K. He can live on that....Just fine. While he decides what to do.
I am not mad he won't do what
I am not mad he won't do what I want. He is frustrating me, because we had a plan and he is changing it. This is all he has talked about for years. This is what he wants. Now to tell me I have to let him get a general degree in Biology when that is not what he should get to do what he wants. That is frustrating.
If I had my way, he would be an Oncologist or Anethesiologist like he said he wanted in Middle School. I liked that idea...."My son the Doctor". I gave up on that a long time ago.
No he doesn't want to go to
No he doesn't want to go to medical school. I want him to be a medical doctor. He does want his doctorate in Biomedical something or other...He wants to discover diseases and follow them...
To ease the blow of your
To ease the blow of your desires for med school, I have a BIL who is still plugging away. With Obamacare, his years ended up being drawn out because he ended up having to opt for a more detailed specialty in order to make it pay off.
I'm not sure how it all works, but I do know that in order to make it anywhere near worth the expense in loans it ended up costing him more to complete the courses for the specialty.
Given Obamacare, med school isn't all it's cracked up to be anymore.
Even before that was passed,
Even before that was passed, it was an issue. It costs around $500,000 to go to a decent one, and these kids take out all this money to go. Then, they make $28,000-$44,000/year, depending on where they live - ie $44,000 in downtown NYC. That isn't very much. Plus, the hours getting through residency are awful. You can still make a lot in anesthesiology, but oncology is tough unless you work for a hospital for a salary. I think I'd have a hard time being an oncologist and treating people without insurance or with very limited insurance who can't afford treatment.
I feel pretty strongly about
I feel pretty strongly about college tuition and debt. I have many friends who deliberately took out 100k plus to get degrees and honestly think there is going to be a government bailout soon.
When this subject gets brought up I keep ending up at this chart:
http://static7.businessinsider.com/image/4c44a2677f8b9a594ff70400/chart-...
and this infographic:
http://www.collegescholarships.org/research/student-loans/
Awesome links...Thanks!!! I
Awesome links...Thanks!!! I completely agree. Why take on debt if you do not have to????
I have some opinions on this
I have some opinions on this too. I have discussed with DS ad naueseam the employment possibilities for his major. (Psychology/ Political Science). We both know that his income opportunities are going to be limited without a graduate degree, so we have been very clear on the expectations with him.
There is doing what you love, and there is also being realistic. There has to be a middle ground.
Um... can I offer something
Um... can I offer something as someone who just graduated from college?
I went in with the intention of becoming a doctor or a veterinarian my WHOLE life. That was what I did, lived, breathed for 18 years. All my AP classes had to do with the medical field. I thought I was ready. My parents believed that was what I would be doing, and Chinese parents are quite insistent when it comes to being a doctor or a lawyer. QUITE insistent. Like they wanted me to go to Cornell and forced me to apply insistent.
Then I got into the school I chose (but only because I did not get accepted into Cornell, but truth be told I didn't try too hard) and I started on that path. Chem, bio, etc. A whole different ballgame. I found out that what you are good at and what you love are two different things. I fell in love with business management sometime during my second semester. I had enough credits for a psych degree so I just added business management as a second major as well.
I am employed, earning good income, and although I'm not the doctor my parents thought I'd be, I'm happy because I'm doing what I like. Not what I THOUGHT I'd like.
By the way, there is no such thing as a medical major. You need a certain amount of credits in a certain number of science classes to qualify to take the MCATs but you can be any major you want, including business.
My parents were somewhat disappointed, as in devastated, but they did still pay for my college tuition (although I got scholarships which paid for half.) Anyway, I know this is a tough subject and everyone has a different opinion on it. If you're paying, it is your right to have an opinion on what he takes, but how far your opinion should count is between you and him and I don't believe anyone else should have a say in it.
This is just my 2 cents.
If I told that kid to focus
If I told that kid to focus on his first two years only, he would die....Last night, we told him that he could live at home and transfer in to his first choice...We are trying to get him the degree he wants in the school he wants....He doesn't see the end game. He only sees getting into a major university right now. We have named other schools he could get this degree, and if he hasn't heard of them, he won't even discuss it.
As for me getting an ulcer. No...But, we are having a sit down tonight and I am laying it out. I have cancelled the tour this week at his 2nd choice since he didn't like the program I agreed to. I have another tour scheduled for another school that has a degree program I will consider if he then transfers after two years to get into the engineering program he needs to do the job he wants....
My plan is to lay it out and tell him that we are sticking with the school he wants for Early admission and the other one that we are touring on Wednesday. If those don't work out, then we will figure out step 2.
I get that kids change their mind. He has. But, the last two years, he has focused on one goal. It is all he has talked about. He has applied to the CDC this summer for an internship to make sure. Along with volunteering at a hospital to make sure he doesn't want a job in medicine. He wants a job in microbiology or epedemiology. In order to work in the field he wants he needs a biomedical engineering degree.
The school he wants to attend is a phenomenal school that has a great engineering program. It really is their main focus. He loves it and that is what he wants. All of this is about his backup plans.
If you graduate with a degree
If you graduate with a degree in Engineering in any field. You are pretty much assured of a job. You are not as assured as the ones with a general degree. That is just reality.
I will always regret my degree choice. I don't want my son to.
We have worked out the Plan B and are touring the school this week. I don't think we need a C or D plan, until we find out if he got into his first choice. At that point, I am leaving it up to him, as long as he can transfer those credits back to his first choice school and get the degree he has to have for the field he wants to be in. The field he wants to be in, not the field I want.