Screwed up Society
Normally I don't post much but something really disturbed me today so I'm going to have at it. Someone posted their husband or boyfriend can't remember which has his 12 year old daughter in the bathroom with him when he's going number 2. This is wrong on sooo many levels but the poster believes(d) that its because the mother is nuts. Ok so the mother is nuts I'm not debating that, but there is no excuse her father doesn't know well enough to tell a 12 year old girl who is probably going through puberty or will soon start that its not ok for her to be in there with him. What's wrong with the world? Ok so the mother is screwed up, you don't think allowing a 12 year old to watch her dad in the bathroom isn't going to screw the kid up? What happens if this continues? What if she decides she wants more? Are you going to allow her to have an inappropriate relationship with her dad because her mom is screwed up? Come on who wants an audience when they are going number 2 anyhow?
I don't mean to upset anyone that's not my intent, I'm just disturbed that someone needs ask if it's appropriate for a 12 year old GIRL to be in the bathroom with her father. If I'm in the minority here that's fine but I think society is screwed if the majority of people thinks this behavior is appropriate or normal.
- buttercookie's blog
- Log in or register to post comments
Comments
If either of my daughters
If either of my daughters would have ever come home and said they sat in the bathroom while their dad was using it I'd have had him arrested. He's the adult and has the responsibility to know its wrong and tell them NO. and they'd have never went back to see him unsupervised. Either he's too sick to realize that normal society doesn't do that or he's to immature to be supervising them. Sorry but this is an issue that really sickens me.
I agree people are taking
I agree people are taking this new age parenting too far and it's going to screw a lot of kids up.
new-age parenting is
new-age parenting is bullshit! growing up, i knew my place, and if forgot, i was reminded! and i am only 29 years old.
i cannot stand how parents today are scared of their kids.
and thank you for bringing
and thank you for bringing some normality to that blog. I feel so bad for the little girl that she doesn't have parents who will parent her. Besides she's going to be made fun of if her friends find out how odd she is thats if her bizarre number 2 obsession hasn't run all her friends off.
exactly and what I don't get
exactly and what I don't get is what's wrong with dad that he had to be told to stop it? Sick Sick Sick He should know better even if his daughter doesn't.
Some people should not have
Some people should not have kids :jawdrop:
Why is mom even in the
Why is mom even in the equation? It happened at DAD'S house and DAD allowed it. Mom has nothing to do with it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
ITA!!
Um. If my child came home
Um. If my child came home and told me she was in the bathroom with her dad while he was going to the bathroom, I would have been on the phone with CPS immediately. And no way in hell would my child ever walk into that house again.
This isn't about boundaries. This is about sickness.
The toilet post has me
The toilet post has me thinking a bit also along your lines....I've come to the conclusion that I think for women it's natural to want to teach children common rules of conduct, values, privacy that sort of thing. I think men are just not wired to worry about such things. They expect it, they take it for granted and they certainly don't intend to correct their children when they see it not happening. And of course this is a generalization and does not apply to all men, just as not all women are nurturing. I don't think it's so much that these dads think it's right or wrong to allow some things (like using the toilet with their 12yo daughter in the room) I think it's more that they don't give it any thought at all. It's not on their radar. They truely are blind to some of it.
And yes, I think that is a flaw of our society. I think as divorce becomes more and more prevalent that we have to find a fix to that. I think as a society in general we need to teach men to parent better. They have not been in the hands-on parenting department as long as women. And I certainly don't mean these statements to be sexist, it's just a natural consequence in our changing society.
Children do not come with
Children do not come with manuals all parents have made mistakes, I don't see this as a mistake regardless if it's a man or woman and adult should know better than to have a pre pubesent teen of the other sex in the bathroom with them. This goes beyond parenting and onto either total sickness or total stupidity. Either way the child shouldn't be unsupervised if the adult is unable to form reasonable expectations and I'm not being a prude here either.
I can't figure out though
I can't figure out though what the maturity level must be of this particular 12 year old that it doesn't bother HER to be in the bathroom either!? Some things don't have to be "taught" they are just "learned" if that makes sense?
Yeah it makes since, I don't
Yeah it makes since, I don't understand why she'd want to be in there either but it's her FATHER's job as the adult and parent to tell her NO if she can't contain curiosity or for what ever reason she insists on being a toilet voyuer. The father had to be told to stop it. They are both in the wrong but the FATHER should know better. Sick behavior.
The whole situation screams
The whole situation screams abuse to me. I'm sorry, but no normal 12 year old girl would even consider sitting in the bathroom while her daddy poops. And no normal human male would even for one millisecond allow. There is something seriously wrong.
Red flags were going off in
Red flags were going off in my head too. I'm thinking this is very close to incest. I'm also thinking the child was told to be there by her father because I've had teens and NONE of them would even think of sitting in the bathroom while anyone else was going number 2. If its not incest something else bizarre is going on. And the father should not have had to be told not to have his daughter in there. Wonder what goes on when the original poster isn't there to supervise?
Huh?
Huh?
??? I don't get it.
??? I don't get it.
It is not right for a grown
It is not right for a grown man to be any part of naked in front of a child old enough to notice much less while going to the bathroom. And vice versa....the kid should not be parading around naked or going to the bathroom with the door open. I hope and pray that this girl hasn't been abused beyond this...this is bad enough to scar her for life in itself.
Just to put my two cents
Just to put my two cents worth in, I thought i'd comment on this. To be honest, I see both sides of the debate. I, personally, would never have a #2 in front of any children (I think peeing is fine, especially when they're at potty training age and it's good to see the correct bathroom behavior modeled by an adult). When I first got married, the kids went #2 with the door open and had no hesitation about walking into an occupied bathroom! They hadn't been taught basic hygiene and didn't wash their hands after bathroom activities, didn't flush and peed all over the floor without seeming to notice. I had to talk it all out with H and decide on what boundaries are appropriate for our family and now we're on the same page. We set up ground rules for our house and we both had to compromise on a few things, but eventually we found common ground. I don't care about being naked in front of people, but it would absolutely not be appropriate for me to be naked in front of my skids, but H sometimes walks around in his birthday suit, if he's about to take a shower or something. My skids are completely unselfconscious and we want them to be confident, healthy and learn appropriate boundaries. I think it wouldn't be fair to my skids to put them in an uncomfortable position. I emphasize privacy in our house and everyone knows that if they need to, they can get away without being hassled or talked to.
All that being said, my family, when I was a kid and teen, was a typical hippie style group and my mom and step-dad walked around naked all the time and used the toilet for #2 with the bathroom door open. I didn't care when I was a kid, but when I started bring friends home, I was mortified and made my dad at least put on shorts (my mom was great with guests and always had clothes on when visitors arrived).
I grew up in that kind of household and although I have nothing against it, I personally do not have the same attitude about using the toilet or wearing clothes. I prefer privacy and I want my skids to know that there are specific etiquette rules that they need to use in public or when visiting friends. Basically, with my mom and step-dad's attitude about that kind of stuff was too far out there for me, but I really honestly think that that lifestyle has no automatic damage or inherit, decrepit morals. Just as many creeps and pedophiles are wandering around looking normal and so I see no problem for the non-pedophile adults/parents to be natural and comfortable in the privacy of their home. Like me, your average kid/teen growing up with parents like this will eventually be embarrassed and will choose to live more modestly and privately when they move out on their own.
Basically, I think it's one of those things that everyone will have a different opinion on it, but that it's okay to disagree. If there is no abuse, the loose or uptight style different parents are both fine and I don't know anyone who has any sign of trauma from living in a relaxed, European kind of environment (i.e. like the Swedes and Fins, who love to be naked!) OR from living in a typical normal as apple pie kind of family. It's just a personal preference and unless the parents are forcefully abusing them and making them watch them use the toilet or forcing them to, either way is fine from my perspective. At a certain point, the kids/teens will probably make it pretty clear if they are uncomfortable and it gets to the point that they find upsetting or embarrassing. Then they can talk to their parents and hopefully reach a compromise (like my dad agreed to boxers in the house and jeans if I had friends over). Every family is different and I've known people from other countries where nudity and using the toilet openly are very common.
I say, as long as there isn't any abuse, to each his own...
I agree with part of what you
I agree with part of what you are saying, StepMadre. I spent several years living overseas. I understand that Americans tend to be a little prudish about the human body.
BUT...We're not talking about someone just leaving the door open or walking by naked. This is a dad who specifically asked his 12 year old daughter to sit in the bathroom with him while he pooped. I think that's a huge difference.
I don't know if he asked, I
I don't know if he asked, I just know that he should have told her NO. While its fine to be free and easy it can also bring charges and allegations in the United States where it is NOT the norm. She has a mother who may not think fondly of their bonding moment also if she happens to mention her bonding over the loo with her father to a friend or another adult it will not be looked at like an "Aww" moment and the way things are now a days it could lead to unnecessary investigations, supervised visits and a possible sex offender label. This is not europe and I'm not being a prude either. At a certain age children need to learn privacy. I highly doubt the rest of the world is going to want to watch her pooing when she's in public leaving the stall door open (doors are installed for a reason) or want her watching them if she's visiting someone.
Great observations-it was
Great observations-it was this way in S. America too. And the country we lived in was very cosmopolitan, very European. I mean people here would be calling CPS left and right if they saw how naked everyone is around there, even around kids/teens, adult kids lol
I agree that a dad asking a 12yr old to come in and sit while he poops goes beyond comfort level for me, absolutely! Something should be discussed about boundaries for sure. Both are taking it too far.
I guess-I'm trying to understand the exact situation-I mean if you're going to the bathroom and a kid runs in to get somethign and leaves-or doesn't realize you're in there, that's different then coming in and sitting and talking-for sure. I can't with that alone jump on the incest wagon-but definately a big lack of boundaries.
I think its weird and
I think its weird and something we definitely dont do in my house; however, I dont think it is abuse I just think it is poor boundaries. If you called cps-I dont think they would even take this seriously. My dad slept in underwear growing up-if he got up at night to use the bathroom, get a snack whatever he was in his underwear-I dont think that is abuse. Occassionally I am in a big hurry and leave the door open to the bathroom when I am peeing-even though my son might walk by and see it's not abuse. When we travel I go into a bathroom with my dds 12 and 8 at the same time and we all use the restroom-again not abuse. My dh occassionally walks around in his underwear-not often anymore as teh kids are older but it's still not abuse.
Shoot, I walk around in
Shoot, I walk around in underwear at times also, my bf does on ocassion walk around in boxers...course my boys think nothing of is as they walk around in their boxers all the time at night b4 bed too. Somebody call 991 lol
I've even run through the house to get a towel topless or nude on ocassion. Kids don't stare or get weirded out and I don't parade or stand around either. They've seen me change and they aren't traumatized, abused or think there's anything abnormal, wrong, dirty or shamefull about the human body-male or female.
Here in America they automatically equate nudeness with sexuality. We are the most prudish yet perverse when it comes to sexuality....we're messed in the head.
Only in this country will you see breastfeeding insulted, people disgusted by the site of it- or prudish about nakedness, yet our teens bare more skin in sexual ways and have extremely high pregnancy rates as well as early age of first sexual encounters. In other countries toplessness is a norm-as well as thong or very small bathing suits. Nobody gets weird about it.
Just like everything else here-what's made a taboo twists a society's head up...as it is with sexuality, nudity, alcohol, etc.
Look how taboo drinking is here-and the ridiculous 21 age law...yet a kid can blow himself in smitherines in war but not have a cold one...makes perfect sense.
What ever we have censored and made taboo has bit us in the ass. Hence the teenage drinking problem/sexual experiences at earlier ages. WE have a unhealthy/f'ed view of the human body, nudity, sex, breasts, ...so in that sense, yes society is messed up here.
"We are the most prudish yet
"We are the most prudish yet perverse when it comes to sexuality"
Actually, I'd have to disagree. I think the Japanese are the most sexually repressed, but most perverse. They have to have women only trains because men grope women on the regular trains. They sell used underwear in vending machines. I'd have to say Americans are prudish and perverse, but we've got nothing on that. I won't even get into Anime.
Ok, correct...so though you
Ok, correct...so though you can see a direct correlation between repressed and perversion....that's the point I'm making. The more repressed a society is the sicker it is. I mean we're more permissive and allowing of violence with our kids then nudity...which is worse?
We desensitize our kids to violence-but heaven forbid they see a parent nude, or a kid friend nude or a woman breastfeeding at a "GASP" table at a restaurant.....SHIELD THEM SHIELD THE EYES>>>the poor child will be scarred for life!!
let's help him get over it and plug him w/violent tv, movies and video games...there there, ALL better now.
Ughh---sorry this is a side rant but our values are so f'ed up it makes you want to scream!
The reason our culture and others that are "perverse" are they way they are is because sexuality is SO taboo, so 'wrong', so frowned upon, the human body is SO shameful-but yet we have higher rate of pregnancy, abortion, std's, sexually active kids, girls pretty much prostituting themselves and competing about who gives the most bjobs at school...all while hating their bodies and selves. We've done GREAT!
We aren't talking about a kid
We aren't talking about a kid running in there to get something or to tell her dad something and get out. We are talking about a dad who has his 12 year old in there for no reason. I really don't see an issue with the other things brought up either such as parents walking around in underware once in awhile, they are covered and if it's normal in the family no one thinks anything about it. Now if a father put on just underware and for no reason just stood in the kids line of view that would be weird. A 12 year old girl has no business watching her father in the bathroom. And by the original post that's what she was doing nothing else it's not like she was knitting or something
I'd feel the same way if the
I'd feel the same way if the age was the same. What mother wants to sit on the throne taking a poo with her pre teen son watching? Icky.
There is a huge difference in the european freeness and the out and out poop fethish. I know the europeon was brought up as a distraction. But in that situation its normal all the time for people to just let it all hang out. The daddy/daughter or mother/son poop parties are NOT normal
Someone posted in one of
Someone posted in one of these blogs that CPS wouldn't get involved in this. I can't find the post right now but one of my friends works for CPS and I told her this "hypothetical" story after I reassured her that this is not happening just something I read online and kept reassuring her she told me this is something that would be grounds for the child to be picked up and removed from the household until either another family member could take her or she'd sit in foster care. This is not something that is taken lightly now a days, maybe in the 60's or 70's or even the 80's but not now. There have been too many children abused and the laws have gotten way stricter. I did not tell her the site I read it on but she told me if my "hypothetical" story was something I knew was happening and it was happening here and not online I could be charged for knowing and not reporting. It's that serious folks. I wouldn't be posting stuff like this about my husband if he was too weird or too stupid to tell his child she couldn't watch him in the bathroom
edit: I saved the original post as a pdf in case the poster posts anything else that would warrant the welfare of this child being looked into further.
I worked in family law for
I worked in family law for years. I work part-time in legal aid now. I have no doubt at all that CPS would not only investigate, but open a case in a situation like this.
I'm starting to feel the same
I'm starting to feel the same way about this place and society
We close bathroom doors but
We close bathroom doors but if we're out and we've had to wait a long time for a public bathroom I'll take all the girls, SD7, SD5 and DD3 in with me.
I'll walk around upstairs in a towel sometimes but it's all girls in my house except for SO. If we had a teen boy around I wouldn't do it.
I'm remembering something that happened a couple of years ago. It was early in the morning and my DD was about 11-12 months old. I was showering and I just had a feeling something was wrong - somehow I noticed a change in air movements or whatever, it was subconscious. Anyway I just knew that DD had somehow managed to get the front door open and was gone. I threw a towel around myself and ran down the stairs, sure enough front door was wide open. I ran out, looked around - no DD. I start shouting her name (it's about 7:00 AM at this time). I see her WAAAY up at the end of the block running like hell so I went chasing her. It wasn't till after I caught her and was headed back to the house that I realized my towel was only covering my front. For some reason most of my neighbours decided to be up and out early that morning because I must have met 6 of them on the walk home, me dressed in nothing but a towel dragging DD by the hand. I was absolutely mortified and I'm sure all my neighbours laughed about it for a while.
Oh wow that must have been so
Oh wow that must have been so scary!! Funny how intuition works isn't it. I'm sure that was embarrasing though-but placing yourself in your neihgbors shoes you gotta admit it might have made you chuckle lol.