Why does it seem kids always side with BM?
SS had a bad habit of bringing things up regarding things that happened between DH & BM through their separation for the sake of argument. One example: When skids were small, BM accused DH of slapping her & she filed for a protective order. DH wasn't allowed at their house. When DH's father passed away he left DH all of his tools. DH kept them locked in the garage. SS watched BM break the window of the garage so she could get to his tools & she sold them to the men she was sleeping with at the time...4 of DH's "friends". A couple of years ago DH made a comment about having to take my Jeep in to have a part replaced & SS says, "Dad, I thought you knew how to fix cars. Seems like if you knew how to fix cars you'd use your own tools to fix Stormabruin's Jeep". DH says, "SS, the only tools I have now are the ones Stormabruin has gotten me over the time we've been together. I used to have what I needed, but I don't have the money to buy the kinds of tools I used to have". SS says, "Why dad? What happened to your tools?". DH simply states, "Son, you know what happened to my tools. We've talked about this". SS says, "Oh yeah. Someone stole them & sold them to your friends. Who was it again?" As soon as DH mentions it was BM, SS gets defensive & pissed & says, "Dad, that happened in the past. Can't we just leave it there & move forward?" & then he'd act offended & shut down. So, even though he witnessed it all & knows who effed who, he still feels the need to push DH to anger & defend BM. If it's in the past, why bring it up? Why lead the conversation to a point you know is going to piss you off? BM can have boyfriends coming in & out of their home & skids will take to them like they're family, yet they couldn't care less about their own dad. BM walked out of their lives. When I met them, they were terribly hurt & felt that somehow she just didn't love them enough. Now, they've done the same thing to DH & they seem to feel like he just doesn't deserve their attention. I don't understand their way of thinking.
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Because she is their MaMa.
Because she is their MaMa. Thats it. Unless of course Dad really did something wrong while MaMa was taken advantage of.
In the case you brought forward it is because the SS knows he can manipulate dad by recounting the tool incident. SS knows his BM was a major biatch on that one but he can use the incident to manipulate dad.
IMHO of course.
Best regards.
BM has had DH ordered to
BM has had DH ordered to Anger Management twice in the time they've known each other. She will always claim he is angry & SS has latched right on to the idea. Any kind of discipline or correction is explained to SS by BM as anger & disrespect toward SS by DH. They seem to both be convinced that DH has anger issues so why continue to purposely push buttons? It's like they want it to go that far & they strive to bring that out in him. It aggravates the piss out of me to have witnessed the sacrifices DH has made for skids & for BM. She wanted a fourth chance to be a mother to her kids & he gave it to her. He kept her out of jail to give her that chance. She just has NOTHING in her...no guilt, no shame, no soul...nothing. It just irks the shit out of me to see those kids protect & defend her the way they do. It pisses me off that BM has conditioned them to feel obligated to do so.
She will give your DH another
She will give your DH another opportunity to put her ass in jail. When that opportunity arises hopefully he has learned his lesson and will let her rot in jail rather than give her another chance to manipulate his children.
Best regards.
We have this exact thing
We have this exact thing happen with DHs three girls as well and it always boggles my mind, storm! When DH and BMs marriage broke up due to BMs affair with the contractor who was working on their house, the girls all quickly turned into three little Cleopatras, living in the land of "De-Nile"! And because BM went on to marry her miscreant contractor and have a kid with him, all that ugliness is now forgiven and forgotten.
However, sometimes, they WILL slip up (like in the example you gave) and bring something up from the past which bothers them. And when the answer DH gives them is along the lines of "we ALL know WHY that is," they ultimately run to BMs defense and get angry with DH.
It's infuriating. I know it has some psychological root (in our case, anyway) in the fact that BM has always played the victim role throughout the years and made the girls feel sorry for her pathetic a**, but it's still incredibly annoying to DH and I!
Could this be the case with your Skids?
"the fact that BM has always
"the fact that BM has always played the victim role throughout the years and made the girls feel sorry for her pathetic a**, "
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That may very well be the same in our situation. BM was a drug addict. Her father spent most of her childhood in prison & is labelled "a menace to society". He is out now & is an alcholic. Her mother was a POS when BM was young. She still is, but she's the one forking over her current husband's money to support BM & skids. BM claimed to be dying of cancer when she came back into skids lives...8 months to live (5 years ago). Her friends/boyfriends are her best friends for 6 months to a year. That's about how long it takes for her to drain them of what they have to give & for them to realize that she's no friend after all. The kids seem to feel an obligation to protect her & defend her, & as soon as she hates someone for standing up to her, skids hate them too. She claims DH was abusive mentally & physically. However, what she claims to be abuse was DH finally growing a backbone & moving on with his life without her. Poor BM...
"Poor BM" UGH. That's it
"Poor BM"
UGH. That's it exactly. The children have obviously be "trained" to see their mother as a "fragile, helpless, VICTIM."
And because your DH is a responsible, rational "normal" adult, who takes responsibilty for his actions, once HE even responds to a situation or question about BM (even when the kids bring it up) it is looked at as if HE is attacking her.
Because SHE is frail and helpless! :barf:
The best strategy is to remind DH to NEVER entertain these types of conversations with his kids. Period.
Please forgive my ignorance
Please forgive my ignorance this morning, but how old is your ss?
I know how your DH must feel. My Dad has a 3 car garage FILLED with tools. Those things are expensive and dear to his heart. If someone stole those from anyone he chooses to pass them along to, there would be hell for sure.
But honestly, I think your DH should have stopped SS in his tracks as soon as he mentioned the incident. Why did he allow SS to continue talking about it, and why did he keep answering SS's questions? When he said "Dad, I thought you knew how to fix cars. Seems like if you knew how to fix cars you'd use your own tools to fix Stormabruin's Jeep", a simple "SS, Stormabruin and I will handle this. Don't you have (insert random activity) to do?" should have done the trick. It annoys me when kids (and by that, I'm referring to young kids) feel entitled to join in on adult conversations. But that's just me.
SS is 16 now. SS has been
SS is 16 now. SS has been doing this since he went back to live with BM at 11. One of the things DH & I struggled with for a long time was the information he was sharing with his kids. He would answer any questions they asked. He felt they had witnessed most of what went on. I told him I felt he was sharing too much. He felt he was helping them cope with what they knew. BM has been very talkative about things concerning court orders, protective orders, child support, etc, however not always truthful. DH felt that when they came to him with wrong information he needed to correct it. When he brought it up in court (because there was a huge eruption when SS accused DH of not paying enough child support) DH was ordered not to discuss anything about it with skids. BM, however, was free to do so. SS has always been one to sit back & take in what he could from an adult conversation. He would NEVER offer any information from BM's home, but would ALWAYS run back to her with information from ours. For some reason, he chooses to pick at DH with whatever he can to piss him off & then take offense when BM is brought into it.
All of the back & forth
All of the back & forth between DH & BM has been going on since skids were 2 & 5. They've been told so many contradicting stories by BM. When she was angry with DH, she said he was abusive, then when she wanted to come back home she told them she made it up because she was angry. Then she gets angry again & says she just told them it was made up so they wouldn't be scared of their dad but that it really was true. She'd tell them he wouldn't let her have friends but would stay gone for days & weeks & sneak in SS's window with hickies on her neck. She claims DH wouldn't allow her to work, but there are letters in their filing cabinet from other men she was sleeping with at her jobs. (She explained to DH that she had to quit her jobs because she kept sleeping with the men there.)
It has all proven to be very confusing for the kids. In counseling SS told DH he saw him hit BM when they were in the car one time. DH was beside himself. He asked BM about it & she said that yeah, he hit her one time when they were all driving around looking for a place for her to live. She said he got mad that she was leaving & punched her in the face & blacked her eye. Okay...so, BM & DH packed the kids up in the car & made a family outing to go find mommy a new place to live. DH didn't get upset about it until they were in the car traveling & just punched her in the face & she never filed any kind of report that would show record...hmmm.
For a 5 year old child to believe for 3 years that his father abused his mother & then just one day she comes back & says no it wasn't true doesn't erase the idea from his mind. BM was in several abusive relationships in her coming & going from DH. SS could've witnessed something with them & confused it. He could've seen/heard it in a movie & created some kind of mental image of his parents in his head from what he'd been told.
I worry that even as adults & even after asking many questions, they'll never know which answers are true. They'll never be able to get closure on this part of their lives.
DH's oldest SD11, remembers
DH's oldest SD11, remembers what she went through with her druggie mom. She knows what I have brought to the table to give them a more normal upbringing. BM never took them to the library or let them take their own lunch to school or helped them with school projects or signed them up to play sports - I started all of that. She became a better mother not to be upstaged by me.
But SD8 and SS6 "drink the BM coolaid" and are disciples of her. She lies to them and they drink it up. SD11 even corrects them on things, but they just can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that their mom is an idiot and a liar - if she's breathing, either a lie is coming out or she's preparing one. SD11 knows her mom lies and although she still loves her, knows her mom can be a great source of disappointment. I'm hoping the other two will catch on in time. BM's lying and stupidity aren't going away anytime soon.
As to the predicament of the original poster - I would shut that line of discussion down as soon as it comes up. If my skids want to bug me in a manner like starting to question me regarding their mom I tell them I will not discuss that with them. If they want to go on and on about how great their mom is, I say, "That's nice." Then quickly find something else to do in another room or change the subject.
"SD11 knows her mom lies and
"SD11 knows her mom lies and although she still loves her, knows her mom can be a great source of disappointment."
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SS brought this up with DH when they first went back to live with BM. BM called DH in tears because SS told her he hoped she died in a car accident (when they thought she was dying from cancer). I suppose the reality of cancer taking her was too real. I think he said "in a car accident" to keep it from feeling so real. DH talked to SS & asked what the problem was & SS said that BM said something (I can't remember what it was) & he knew she was lying because he said everytime she told a lie she'd laugh a certain way. Sadly, DH knew the laugh SS was referring to. I just don't get how easy it has been for BM to turn it from SS being so angry with her to being so angry with DH. I'm sure it's something that as hard as I try I'll never understand. Of course, I live on the sane side...(most of the time.
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It sounds like the kid has a
It sounds like the kid has a lot of anger in general probably due to what he's experienced. He might benefit from therapy. Have you and DH ever considered getting him in to see a counselor?
I bet he's very confused and having a hard time reconciling the truth with what he wants to be true.
BM & DH had skids in
BM & DH had skids in counseling, but court left it up to BM to find the counselor. Problem was that she wouldn't pick a counselor & stick with it. Skids would see them 4-5 times before DH got to attend with them & 3 weeks into his counseling with them (when the counselor started seeing BM's part in the problems) BM would change counselors because they'd start questioning HER parenting skills. The first few counselors had been told by BM that DH wasn't a part of their lives. They were under the impression that he was absent until the kids mentioned him. After that, DH made a point to call the counselors himself to let them know he was to be part of the counseling as well. It just ended up not being helpful for anyone because once they'd start reaching the roots of the issues, BM would change it up & they'd have to start all over. We don't see skids anymore, so we really can't do anything aside from making ourselves available to them if/when they wish to have their dad back in their lives.