she's got a leash on him and it is breaking me
last night bb called our house for the first time. she usually calls bf on his cell phone because he never gave her the number to our house. so actually she had sd call 411 and get the number and call for her and when i answered the phone, sd asked to speak with her dad. she usually is talkative with me but this time she had no interest. she just asked to speak with her dad.
as soon as he got on the the phone, bb took the phone and started screaming at him. said he was a bad father and he treats his kids like sh**, that the kids are not going to be with us for thanksgiving because the kids hate his family (bf's parent are visiting then), said the kids don't like sm, etc etc. i could hear all of this through the phone she was yelling so loud. this went on for 20 mintues and all bf did was try to defend himself, making excuses for everything she said. at one point he said 'yes you have the right to call me anytime you want, just calm down.'
i was sickened by it. so after a while i told him to tell her we are having dinner and to call back when she calmed down. he would not do it and motioned his finger for me to go away. my blood started boiling so i walked over and unplugged the phone. i couldn't believe i did that but i just couldn't help myself. he started yelling at me 'what the hell are you doing?' i said it had to stop. we were having dinner and you are allowing her to control this evening. so the phone rang again and he tried grabbing the phone and told me not to answer it. i said 'it's my house nad my phone too and i can answer if i want. i will tell her we are having dinner and ask her if she will call back'. so he unplugged the phone. she left a message and said 'you can go f*** yourself. you are not getting the kids tomorrow'.
this all turned into another fight and we ended up breaking up, so i ended up going to a bar and having some wine by myself. i have no friends here yet, which sucks. it can get incredibly lonely. sometimes i feel lonelier than i ever have being here.
this morning curiosity came over me and i grabbed his phone and looked at his text messages (i know this is bad....but i still have some trust issues with him because of all of the secrets and lies for the first part of our relationship - part of the reason we were in therapy). so of course he is texting bb back and forth making excuses for why he's not ignoring her, saying he has sent her 3 emails on sun (umm, excuse me.. i thought we were cuddling on the sofa all day that day. where did you find time to send emails to your ex?)
also i forgot to mention on a previous post that saturday after the soccer game when she walked up, the look on my bf's face was very interesting. he was very nervous and practically kissing her a** with the way he was talking to her. i couldn't believe it.
to sum it all up i am beginning to feel that
1) he is still allowing her to control his life and doesn't have full resolve over this divorce
2) still don't feel he is sticking up for me or more importantly this relationship
3) i don't like the person i am right now. more unhappy than not and behaving sometimes in a way that i normally would never
3) wondering if it's just time to go.
is this typical stuff that goes on with bm's and your dhs, fdhs, bf, etc? or am i right to presume there are some red flags here?
i'm just exhausted already
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sum it up
This is typical stuff. Ask yourself, is this the way that you want to live for the rest of your life? With all thats going on how long do you think the relationship would last if you were married? A lot of friendships have been destroyed by getting married. This is the usual behavior of a NCBD and even though it does make people gag they just can't see it. When we see NCBD bowing down to the princess it makes us lose respect and if you don't have respect does anything else matter?
PATTY
thanks for your input. yes i ask myself all of those questions. one of the things i keep coming back to is that i am going into my late 30's and at the point where i really want to have kids of my own. my biological clock is ticking i suppose. i tell myself that once we have a child together adn once we're married, things will get easier.
i made a mistake of giving up so much for him and to move here (ie my own business, etc) and the thought of starting over yet again with career and the time it takes to find and build a new relationship, i would miss the boat for the opportunity to have children. when i muster up the strength to just say screw this, i keep going back to that and i scares me. not to mention i love this man very much.
BTW, what does NCBD stand for?
Whoa, Nellie!
Once you get married and have a child together, things will just get a zillion times more complicated! If she doesn't like you in his life as a girlfriend/fiance, how do you think she's going to like you as his wife?! And if/when you have a baby together, hey, that's just adds another target for her to take shots at. It doesn't get any easier after marriage and new baby... it gets a lot worse!
I have to admit that I've never had this problem. My DH would MUCH rather hang up on his ex wife than actually speak to her on the phone. I've never had a problem with him bowing down to her. We've had the opposite problem, where I felt like I had to mediate and encourage him to give up a little ground every now and then rather than fight a big war with her. Kind of the opposite of your situation. She was reasonable until he married me, then she started withholding visitation big time. After she found out we were expecting a baby, she sued him for more CS.
Getting married and having a baby won't necessarily strenghten a troubled relationship, but it can and probably will set off an angry BM. If you are already having trouble dealing with her, giving her two more reasons to create conflict in your life isn't going to make it better. That's just two more things for you to fight about.
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He needs some balls
At your age I would not let any man dictate my family planning, I would do what I had to concerning that. It may be years before your in another relationship so I would nip that one now. I have a girlfriend who wishes she would have gotten pregnant by her boyfriend and didn't, now they are broken up for good and she is 45. She would have had a cherished child and if they still broke up, she would have gotten his child support. Here's the problem, every man you meet will likely have children from someone else, perhaps not such an evil ex but your going to encounter this on the single road again. I'm sure you thought about all this, so its really hard to advise you. Depends on what your own personal goals are. If you want kids and its getting late in the game, I would go back and make that happen. In my experience it will change the dynamics for the better.
bio clock is a powerful thing
DO NOT put the promise of what might be ahead over what's there right now.
Personally, I hoped by ex would "get it" after the baby was born. He didn't, never has and there wasn't even the complication of an ex- spouse in the picture.
Sweetie, you're checking text messages and your bf has not taken your side over BB. Your gut is trying to tell you something. BB behavior won't change and you can't make your BF change. You can only choose to accept the behavior or not.
In terms of babies, YOU want one and that's fine. But do you want your baby and you to deal with this? There's still time to find "the one" and sperm banks if that's what you want. But seriously, don't settle if it doesn't seem right. You can get what you want but you need to decide what you want first.
NCBD
non custodial birth dad
If you want a baby just go to the genetics center where people donate sperm and tell them what you want the birth dad to look like and the IQ that you want.
You don't need a live in daddy to get a baby and you would probably be happier than having to deal with someone's baggage.
LOL!
now that sounds like a plan! and so much easier than to deal with this crap. i mean this is every day for the rest of my life i would have to deal with this craziness. if bf were a little more pro 'us' then i would find a way to make it more manageable because aside from all the shenanigans, he is a good man. i might as well go reserve a nice plot of land in the local cemetary because that's where i feel like i will be heading way before i should. stress kills!
the more i think about last night
i just can't believe than woman put her little 10 year old daughter up to do her dirty work! even worse the little girl was sitting right there while her mother was behaving to wickedly..yelling, screaming, cursing. i mean i find that incredibly tacky. that is edfinitely not a lady. and poor girl, the pain and confusion she must be going through. it just sickens me.
Get used to it
if you plan on staying. The BM has proven that she has serious issues and she will continue to use the child to communicate with the father, they always do. Somehow they excuse the fact that this is putting the child in the middle of a situation they should never have to be in.
Good luck with your decision making. I personally agree with going with the gut feeling!
Corie
Very Sad
Its pathetic. I believe any woman that plans to have a child should do so realizing there's a good chance she may be raising that child herself someday. Having my children was the best decision, and I would have been just as happy on my own because they provide so much. But you will have women like your bm, that rather hound and put her kids through hell because she feels she is owed. She might move on someday, in fact I would say she is currently in the process of turning the children against him, so its quite possible in a few years that there will be less contact. Your boyfriend may someday learn that he is tired of the blackmail, and will go back to court and hopefully stop the life insurance he agreed too. Difficult to say, but I would really just ignore her. Take another approach, and around 6:00 pm turn the phones off for your own family time. Let her leave a message, or answer the phone next time and ask her to please not to call your home to argue, only if its very important regarding the children. Instead of arguing with your bf, take control and set up some rules with bm.
If you have a good relationship with bf and the only issue is with the bm, than I would stick it out. She cannot do a whole lot if you do not allow it, and slowly you can work on bf to start the separation process. One thing about having children, I have seen very few perfect relationships and many people get married only to get divorced, so no crystal ball there. You will have issues with any man; be it the ex, inlaws, so on. My advice to any women is only have a child if you really want to, and you would be ok going it alone (should that happen). Realistically at 38 your time is limited, and above all I wouldn't care what bm thought about that, nor would that be a factor in my decision to have a baby. Contrary to what others have posted you are not, nor ever will be the cause of his ex, or children not having a relationship with him. They have taken the stance that if he's no longer in the picture, they'll cut him off or blackmail him. Believe me these kinds of women do it regardless. Be a united front, stick by him and if you want your own family someday then do so. Be happy about it, and let bm be the one to be miserable. When she trys to cause problems just laugh and let her know you mostly just feel sorry for her. Her children are getting older so that leash will have little effect over time.
child
The little girl is going to grow up to be just like her mother so how would you like to live with her or have her visit?
Happened to us
Kid turned out just like the mom, most do so no surprise there. But around age 12 they visit less and less because they resent dad's new family and they have a very busy social calendar. What are the chances you happen to find another guy and just love his kids that visit. Could be, but I project a very similar situation.
Your BF has the divorce guilt syndrome...
Most of them do, some get over it. If he isn't stepping up to the plate now, a marriage, a new baby, a wife - isn't going to make any difference. They don't change that much. It sounded to me like Ms. Tammy was telling you to get pregnant, have his child, and if things haven't straightened out then leave him - get CS..and you will have your baby! I'm sorry, but I don't think this is a proper way to bring a baby into your life. ARtifical insemination is one thing, but to use a guy to get a baby and know there's a good chance you won't stay together and then plan on CS..just doesn't sound good to me. Maybe I misunderstood her. Anyway, don't give up..there's still time for you to meet a new guy and still have kids. But don't settle on this guy...if you think your life with him, the skids and BM will be hell...and unfortunately..it sounds like it would!
Good luck.
I'm sorry for your frustration
I'm sorry for your frustration, and as you have written to me too, I feel the urge to help you, too. Thank you for sharing your frustrations. As for you unplugging the phone-perhaps not the best idea for either of you to do, but look at it this way...if he repsected you enough to just be an adult and calm down before dealing with his ex, then he is putting his own feelings above yours. Since your SD was not there at the time, it was not about her presence on your end. Also, there is nothing right about him doing anything at all behind your back and not telling you. TRUST is one of the most important things in a relationship. I personally can't suggest that you marry someone that you can't trust 100%. I don't always agree with other opinions that he can't or won't change. People can change. People do change. Some people don't. Some people do. It can simply be time that is needed for adjustment and healing for one or both of the parents. It may require an earth shattering event that forces some parents to see what is going on right in front of them. Then, unfortunately sometimes, things only seem to change in your mind or they only change for a while, then go back and forth, in circles. Only you know the situation. We can offer advice, but you are the person who understands your situation. However, I would say that you should not allow your desire to have a baby as any reason to stay or not stay in this situation. My husband wants a baby now, and he also may think that he can act any way he wants after you have the baby because he has more security too for you not to leave him. Think about the baby...is this the right environment for a new innocent life to face? I think you both need to think about getting your feelings and trust in sync before you bring another life in to the situation. As you said, you feel bad for your SD. How is your baby going to be raised, hearing and dealing with a possibly resentful older sister, all the hassle, etc. My husband mentioned having a baby to my SD (11 yo), and the next thing I know, her BM was emailing and freaking out, and scaring the hell out of my SD (telling her that if her father loved her enough then he wouldn't need another child or that she was just going to have to share everything, or that she was going to not get as much attention at his house, or that she should still get all of the attention at his house because he always has the other time when she's not there to spend with his other child, etc.) My SD is against us having a baby because of the crap that her head has been filled up with by her BM. It's very sad and difficult to deal with. Hence, that is why I question staying too.
I'm so sorry that you are feeling this way. It is not right for you to be treated with dishonesty or him hiding anything from you. Just don't think about what "might" be, but see what really "is" and what realistically (not hopefully) will "be" in the future. That is what I am trying to do, also. Not to flatten your thoughts, but also remember that having a child in your late 30s and early 40s is a bit more physically risky and sensitive, so make sure that you will not be so stressed out and upset during your pregnancy that it will ruin the experience or even worse, hurt your baby's health. I do not want to scare you, but this is the biggest thing in your life to think about. I'm going through it, so feel free to share with me anytime. You have so kindly done so already, hopefully I can help you in return. Take care.
Having a child of our own created hardships for my husband
We had problems with the ex from day one. I was so idealistic that I thought everything would just work out fine. I always wanted a lot of kids and I was 38 years old. SO, why not take on his. Well let's just say my presence was not a welcomed thing. After we had our daughter things got worse. Read my posts. Skids hate my daughter and are hateful towards her. I feel like I'm constantly on watch so she doesn't get hurt, or worse, emotionally abused and damaged long term. Long and short. PAS and a difficult BM, we have more problems with his kids and I don't think it is fair that my husband has lost his children, which in part has to do with me. I'm not saying I shouldn't have married him or had a child with him, but we didn't know what we were getting into or how to manage it. It is unchartered territory and if you don't have it all together, greater much more long term damaging things will occur to you, your husband, your child, and the skids. I'll share more if you want. I've talked a fair bit about this in my blogs but I'm sure there are more intellectual, and introspective areas to explore.
My two bits.
liking your 2 bits kathleen
definitely want to know more
Just Had An Interesting Talk Last Night
with DH... there has been an estrangement between us mostly because I shut down EOW when we have the skids and just watch him unparent. It seems to me that he and his ex transport these kids back and forth as trophies and do not spend much time teaching them. My involvement is NOT wanted by any of the players, unless I am their back up plan to bail them out.
So I said to DH.... why are we doing this.. why are we married? Besides loving each other that is now turning to estrangement because of skids and BM... WHY.. we had a great relationship before. Other than raising a family together why marriage and living together? He looked at me long... and said I do not know... He asked me to hang in there... Why.. Why can't he stand up to this mess. AND why do I have to wait... and what am I waiting for.. without action on their part it is not changing... Only they can change it, I can only change how I respond.
I should probably post my own blog today... I feel very blue and teary today.
I'm sorry...
you're so down today. I know how that feels. I think a lot of us feel that way...always waiting. Waiting for it to get better. I always tell myself that it will be worth the wait. I just wish someone would give me a schedule on when this will actually happen. I just want some sort of timeline is all.
It is so hard to be a spectator and be expected to be a sponsor at the same time. I contribute to the funding of the situation, but I get no say in anything. I don't even like to talk about it anymore. DH tries to involve me in certain decisions and I just don't care anymore. I always tell him, "whatever you need me to do".
But then there's the phone call I got today. DH calls me and tells me that he just wanted to say hi. That he loves me and that he's so lucky to have me. Then he started telling me that it's snowing where he's at and was joking about leaving his crew because he had to "go get something from Home Depot" and has been sitting in the parking lot with the heater on for 10 minutes enjoying his coffee. His little smart ass laugh makes me smile everytime. I love him so much. He's who I want to grow old with and this time right now is so insignificant in the whole scheme of things. The skids...the BM...they will become less and less involved I think and I just hope that one day I can look back at this whole mess and just breath a big sigh of relief. It will all be over...and he will have been worth every aching moment.
Big hugs to you and I hope your day gets better.....
What a great post CG!!! And
What a great post CG!!! And you are right on with your comment about how insignificant some of the issues are in the scheme of things.
Whoami, I am in a similar situation to you. I sold my house, quit my job and moved 5000 miles to be with my SO. Everything was wonderful for about 4 months after I got here because the BM wasn't interfering in our lives at all. He sent her money...she was happy. Then in late Nov, the BM decided she had made a huge mistake and wanted my SO back. She was so emotional and hurt and dragged their boys into it all, and my SO felt so sorry for her and the boys that he accomodated her far more than he should have. He would take all her phone calls...replied to emails having nothing to do with the boys...listened to a CD she sent him, etc.... He said he was just trying to keep her from going nuts. But it ended up blowing up in his face in a huge way because he was just being nice, but wasn't ever going back to her, so the BM just went further and further off the deep end. Finally after some bad blow ups and huge emotional turmoil, my SO realized he had to limit conversations to issues just relating to the kids, and anytime the BM would get into emotional issues or rehashing the past, he gets off the phone with her. A few months ago this woman was calling my SO 3-5 times a day, and when she couldn't get him, she'd start calling my phone. Now we hear from her about once a week. She still goes nuts at times, and has totally alienated the boys from their dad, but it's slowly getting better. The boys are pretty much grown (18 and 20) and I can see a future where the BM will be mostly out of our lives all together except for weddings and grandchildren. I think your stepdad gave you some good advice. It takes a long, long time for full detachment to occur after a long-term marriage. Hang in there girl. I think it will get better for you.
great posts everyone!
every bit of it helps. we are having a long discussion tonight about the current problems we are having and
his argument is that we had already established that he has had (and obviously sometimes still does) have issues with completely detaching from his ex since i moved here - and guessing way before that. call it codependency? guilt? emotional enmeshment? whatever it is, we had already established that it existed.
i have read tons of books trying to understand what that meant and it all seemed to point to one key thing: the length of healing time between the divorce of his 17 year marriage and when he fell in love with me was just not enough time. i have gathered that in most divorce cases it takes at least 2+ years (sometimes longer) for a person to completely 'heal' or recover emotionally from the divorce (financial is sometimes forever and beyond).
boy i wish i would have read all of this stuff before i jumped in head first! i would have had no problem to keep a casual long term relationship for another year or so, meanwhile keeping my options open. oh well, hindsight is always 20/20 isn't it?
we have discussed all of this before i went on my 'retreat' so his argument was that yes, we jumped in a little too soon, but we can't help who we fall in love with. and that through therapy and practice he will continue to work on detaching himself, but that he wants me to stand beside him while we go through this process. he said he'll make mistakes he's sure (which he says the way he handled these last situations were mistakes) but that i will see significant improvements.
and i must say, it has gotten ALOT better since before i left, looking back a month and a half ago was HELL! with that said, part of me feels as though (and this was his argument last night) that i have not given enough time yet since i have been back for his improvements to continue to change. he wants me to acknowledge and give him credit for his significant strides and just be a little more patient. he claims that within 6 months - a year from now if i haven't seen a complete change, then i have reason to leave. now i agree to some extent, but damn it's already been over a year.
i had a conversation with my stepdad last night (he's been my father since i was 2 so i really call him dad) - he and my mother divorced after 19 years. he siad the very same thing. although he did not love her anymore, it took him a few years to completely rid himself from all the emotional baggage that went along with the marraige. he said yes we definitely jumped in too soon but if i really loved him and if he is trying then i should stand beside him while he works it out. that in time it will get better. well said dad!
i guess i could always give it a bit more time. we'll see how the talk goes tonight.
i would like to make a list of questions. any help from current SMs on any key question i should ask or pay attention to, since you have all already gone through alot would be helpful. thanks so much!
Good luck with your talk!
I've been keeping up with you
I think you are ahead of the game. I didn't find this website or research stepfamilies until month 3 of our marriage. It was my first marriage and I really didn't know what to expect. You have done your homework and know what to expect. Maybe you could postpone "setting the wedding date" for 6 months then re-evaluate. I think you are in for the long haul though because you sound like you really love the guy.
I tend to agree with him that you should be patient and give him some more time. He has improved! It's just so easy to only see what hasn't improved and it's so hard to live with the day to day crap with phone calls, texting etc. I know! I still sometimes snatch the phone to see what the ex could possibly be texting about
I'd suggest talking about rules for your home. Rules concerning when or IF to answer the calls from Ex. He shouldn't be answering during your alone time after work, he's letting her dictate what goes on in your home and using the kids as leverage. He needs to end that one and only have her call him with emergencies dealing with the kids. She shouldn't be calling so much. He's enabling her. The kids are old enough to call him and leave her out of it. Also rules for your house concerning visitation and how the kids treat you... Stick to "how can I make this situation easier on myself..." And give him a little bit -know that at some point your dinner will NEVER again be interrupted. I can't tell you how many "date nights", family dinners and so on were interrupted for me! And now my DH chooses to not answer her calls (yep, she'll still call him) but he will text her back but only concerning the kids.
Good luck! Let me know how it goes!!