what can we do about PA/PAS then?
I read through the log about how "we" can't even agree on what Parental alienation. What is it that we can do about it then?
Even the GAL in our ongoing custody case (hearing date 6/29th) brought up the term parental alienation and when I asked her to explain what she meant by the term, because I wanted to know what she felt that it meant she explained that any time a parent or others around the child speak or act ill against the other significant parties in the child's life. (I was so glad to hear that she acknowledged that did not just mean BF or BM's)
She went on to say that a training that she had gone to a few weeks ago attempted to discuss what parents could do about situations that involved concerns of parental alienation and she was not impressed. She was told to tell parents not to give up on their kids - THATS IT. We explained that we would never give up but we are our of money (we have moved to a cheaper home, cut back on expenses, not taken vacations for 3 years, taken out a loan against our truck, we have nothing left). We told her how we have gone to every single therapy apt. with or without our ss who doesn't show up because Bm refuses to bring him against the order, or how Bm says that he has homework and can't attend at the last minute. BM is also ordered to attend but refuses.
(one way that I explain to other what we are going through is that as a BM of 4 children, the oldest was refusing to go see her father after he made her sit in a chair and dress up for "family holiday pic's" He and his wife made the kids change clothes to appear that they had taken pics during the holiday's that they spent with them. when she threatened to tell he pushed and slapped her. She called the police and the police called us to come and pick her up. I set up and took my daughter to a therapist every week for almost 6 months, where she was to have sessions with her BF to improve their relationship. He showed up with a camcorder to tape the sessions. the therapist refused to allow the sessions to be taped and he never returned. I set up the sessions without a court order with the hopes that the situation between the two would improve. If I were to say things such as "you father is so abusive and he should go to jail for what he did to you" that would be crossing the line. The BM of the ss13 refuses to set up sessions, refuses to follow the court order to drive, refuses to particpate etc. all actions of her that inforce that BF is a "bad" father and that I am a "bad SM".
I would love to get together with a group of parents who could propose changes and come up with options for parents.
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Call Guido's Killer Pimp and
Call Guido's Killer Pimp and Hitman Service. }:)
In all seriousness, with the exception of continuously requesting the Family Court to hold them in contempt and punnish the perpetrating/condoning parent I don't think there is anything that can be done if one or the other of the BioParents perpetrates or condones the perpetration of CA.
Best regards.
Violetforest... I have
Violetforest... I have struggled with PAS...
Both on the receiving end from BM.. but also because DH and I have been concerned that at times, we could even be guilty of it.
DH and I used to make a lot of excuses for BM's behavior. We would tell SD that BM just "forgets the time" or "is always late" (and make a joke to lighten it up) when BM would show up HOURS after her scheduled pick up time.
But sometimes, BM would just do something that was sooo off the wall, we would be angry and just say to SD, "that's not right".
Because of this, I was afraid that we were PAS'ing against BM. DH asked SD's therapist about this when it was just him and I in the room and she laughed at me!
SD's therapist helped me by trying to suggest that we need to understand that we don't always have to "gloss over" bad behavior. And that sometimes, that is worse for the kid. What we need to try to do, is to say, "Yes, I can understand why you are upset / sad / hurt / think that way"... and sort of leave it at that. It's like acknowledgement without trashing.
It's very hard to do - especially when I've been so freakin' pissed off at the woman while facing SD and telling her, "Yes, I understand why you are upset. That makes me upset too." without getting into the fact that I think her mom is immature, selfish and self-centered!!
Also ... SDs therapist pointed out to DH and I that BM was basically PAS'ing against herself. It wasn't what we were saying that was causing issues between SD and her mom. It was what her mom was doing.
All I can suggest for you is, when warranted, give your kids validation of their feelings without adding on to it. And also, though, knowing when their feelings are just not right.
For example, SD sometimes would be angry with her mom over stuff that if she had a good relationship with her, wouldn't have bothered her. So DH and I do try at those times to let SD know that she's not really mad at her mom for "that" ... but maybe something else.
And finally - DH and I both have been subject to PAS from BM's family. Where they outright told SD that I am nothing to her, I am not her mother. And that DH makes a lot of money and doesn't give it to BM, and on and on. Luckily, SD has a decent relationship with us and great communication.
So if you are on the receiving end of PAS.. open up good lines of communication with your kids / skids. And let them tell you freely, without reacting too much, to what is being said. And then, gently try to give your version of what is being said.
For example, when SD called crying and said that they were being mean about me, I told her not to worry about it. That I don't care what they said, and that I am fine with it. I am NOT her mom, but we have a great relationship. And that if they continue to talk about me, she can always just refer them to me! (which made her giggle)
When they said that DH has a lot of money and doesn't give BM any, we just told SD the facts. That DH did provide for BM and has not asked BM for many things that he could. And that they shouldn't say those things.
Just talking about it with her took some of the sting, and some of the issue out of it.
Hope this helps!
Having been a kid subjected
Having been a kid subjected to PAS and a stepmom supporting a DH as BM has continued her alienation attempts (with degrees of sucess), you need to get your hands on the book "Divorce Poison". Can't stress this enough.
Good luck.
I think the only thing we can
I think the only thing we can do about it, is NOT do it ourselves.
This question came up today because of a Father's Day situation and the inappropriate comment the BM made to a child. We had the reverse situation happen to us. Please note, we are not saints and constantly checked ourselves over the weekend in question.
Uberskank threw DH's kid at us on Mother's Day weekend. Now the CO clearly states the parent gets the child for the full weekend on Mother's/Father's Day, regardless of the EOWE schedule. The Thursday right before MD we were told by Uberskank that "she had plans and the other dads were taking their daughters for the weekend and DH would be too!" Even though we had our own plans, they got canceled because DH felt bad that his kid's mother dumped her off over MD weekend. Did I say one word to DH's kid about what a selfish, venom-spewing, lazy biotch her mother is? No (but oh god I really, really wanted to say something!!!)....we treated it like any other weekend she spends with us and didn't say one word about it being Mother's Day.
We can't control Uberskank's words or actions. No one, not even the judge in our case can control her. She's a vile, diseased gas-bag who has spent hours grilling DH's kid and her little sisters after every visit and filling their heads with lies about their fathers (verified by counselors and evaluators).
We can however, control ourselves and filter what comes out our mouths. Trust me, I'm no saint and every, single day DH's kid is around me it's a challenge to bite my tongue and keep my opinionated trap shut about anything having to do with her mother.
They (whoever they are) keep telling me "some day" DH's kid will one day figure out what's really going on with her mother. I hope so but there are days the words of Bruce Campbell in Army of Darkness runs through my head...."yeah...and I'm a Chinese jet pilot".
I am wondering if there is a
I am wondering if there is a way to get the therapist and court system to work better together. Therpay by its nature is set up for privacy, which I understand but families are left screwed because if therapy is done by the court ordered therapist than insurance does not cover it and if you use the loop hole like we are to get ss into sessions to "prove" that there is no abuse your done. The therapist needs to work with both parents not just one! The whole family in these cases are going through hell. BF has taken over all of the father responsibilities with my children (father passed away several years ago and had little to nothing to do with them anyway) and they were all upset on father's day because their dad was hurting so bad because BM refused to bring ss13 to the drop off location!
This idea that every thing in every case is 50"50 is bull shit. I dont know of one marrige that has a 50/50 relationship when it comes to the kids. I know that this will piss some of you off but I need to vent. If you decide to change up your life because you dont like being with the person anymore and have kids, you choose to leave the relationship and then have little to do with the kids for a few years DO NOT expect to walk back into the picture and call me the bad parent and state that I as a step parent should have nothing to do with your kids. I am the one who made the vday cards, purchased the christmas gift for the exchange, snack bucket, skinned knees and broken arms in the emergency room and now I am supposed to do what ever you say just because you gave birth to the kid. My husband should not have been such a nice guy, he should have protected his children and his family gotten full custody when you turned the family upside down instead of believing that "they need" their other parent. You did not get their kindergarden shots and hold them why they cried, you missed out when he got in trouble for "Kissing" a girl under the dug out when he was in 3rd grade. His older sisters "came to the elementary" school to "protect" him from the bully who gave him a black eye when they were at the highschool and they didnt care that they had to run laps at vball practice because it was worth it BUT you say that they are not his sisters because they are only step siblings. At night when he was scared he would come into my room with his blanket and snuggle up with me because you were too busy "snuggling" with the new boyfriend of the week to take your weekend of visitation. And then you wonder "why" they call me mom. They call me MOM because you were not around! If you were around then they would not have felt the need to fill the gap in their lives. And now you are going to call me abusive because I dare to put up a chore list with everyone's name on it so he has a chore a day, not like we live on a farm! Now your attorney sends me paperwork to know how much I drink a day! a day! are you kidding I only wish I had that much time to put towards a hobby. Even if I did drink everyday, your husband has and owi and a disorderly conduct history. Oh and remember I was the one who came to pick up the kids when he kicked you out of the house in your PJ"S!!!!!!!!
A slight tangent, thanks guys.
I am wondering if there is a
I am wondering if there is a way to get the therapist and court system to work better together. Therpay by its nature is set up for privacy, which I understand but families are left screwed because if therapy is done by the court ordered therapist than insurance does not cover it and if you use the loop hole like we are to get ss into sessions to "prove" that there is no abuse your done. The therapist needs to work with both parents not just one! The whole family in these cases are going through hell. BF has taken over all of the father responsibilities with my children (father passed away several years ago and had little to nothing to do with them anyway) and they were all upset on father's day because their dad was hurting so bad because BM refused to bring ss13 to the drop off location!
This idea that every thing in every case is 50"50 is bull shit. I dont know of one marrige that has a 50/50 relationship when it comes to the kids. I know that this will piss some of you off but I need to vent. If you decide to change up your life because you dont like being with the person anymore and have kids, you choose to leave the relationship and then have little to do with the kids for a few years DO NOT expect to walk back into the picture and call me the bad parent and state that I as a step parent should have nothing to do with your kids. I am the one who made the vday cards, purchased the christmas gift for the exchange, snack bucket, skinned knees and broken arms in the emergency room and now I am supposed to do what ever you say just because you gave birth to the kid. My husband should not have been such a nice guy, he should have protected his children and his family gotten full custody when you turned the family upside down instead of believing that "they need" their other parent. You did not get their kindergarden shots and hold them why they cried, you missed out when he got in trouble for "Kissing" a girl under the dug out when he was in 3rd grade. His older sisters "came to the elementary" school to "protect" him from the bully who gave him a black eye when they were at the highschool and they didnt care that they had to run laps at vball practice because it was worth it BUT you say that they are not his sisters because they are only step siblings. At night when he was scared he would come into my room with his blanket and snuggle up with me because you were too busy "snuggling" with the new boyfriend of the week to take your weekend of visitation. And then you wonder "why" they call me mom. They call me MOM because you were not around! If you were around then they would not have felt the need to fill the gap in their lives. And now you are going to call me abusive because I dare to put up a chore list with everyone's name on it so he has a chore a day, not like we live on a farm! Now your attorney sends me paperwork to know how much I drink a day! a day! are you kidding I only wish I had that much time to put towards a hobby. Even if I did drink everyday, your husband has and owi and a disorderly conduct history. Oh and remember I was the one who came to pick up the kids when he kicked you out of the house in your PJ"S!!!!!!!!
A slight tangent, thanks guys.