SS stayed with us this weekend...unsupervised!
So, SS came Friday. We met BM just up the road from their house after work Friday. She didn't bring SD with her. She didn't speak, but glared the entire time SS was moving his stuff from her car to ours. DH smiled at her & said, "Hey" & she threw him the stink eye. I waved. I'm not sure if the stink eye I got was the leftovers from his, or if it was for me specifically. LOL! Whatever. We went by the Fresh Market & spent $57 on 3 Porterhouse steaks to put on the grill. We went by Walmart & picked up a few things that SS wanted to have while he was there. Saturday morning, we met MIL & FIL at Denny's for breakfast so they could see SS. He wanted to go back to BM's around 2:00 so he could hang out with his buddy that afternoon, so before we took him back, we went to see "Arthur" & on our way back out to meet BM, got SS lunch at Chik-fil-a.
BM was 25 minutes late. As we sat there waiting, SS began with the comments & questions about everything that, in the past, were always the initiation to a blow up just before going back to BM's house. As soon as it started, I cringed. I let him sit up front because his legs are very long & to give him & DH an opportunity to converse without feeling like I was in the middle of all of it. Throughout the conversation I kept my comments to myself. I feel like the issues that they have to work out need to be worked out between the two of them. There were things I wanted to say. There were things DH was saying that I didn't feel should've been said, & there were things SS said that I felt he was saying to be snide. There is a lot that needs to be hashed out one good time in order to give each one an opportunity to say exactly what they feel & release the thoughts that have built up (mostly DH, as SS let his fly when he made contact again) over the last couple of years.
My thought is that in the car waiting for BM to pull in at any moment probably is not the best time to start this. I hope that they'll consider seeing a counselor together...and separate...so that they each have equal opportunity to say what they need to say & leave the past behind them. DH tends to interject & interupt when SS is talking, & SS tends to clam up as soon as he starts getting upset. Then DH is left not knowing what SS is thinking about, & SS is left feeling like what he has to say isn't important because DH won't stop & really listen. I got irritated with DH myself on our way home. I was trying to tell him that the way he was talking to SS...like he would say, "It took you a couple of years of growing up to get what I was saying but I think you're getting it" or "Well, now that you're growing up I think you understand me better & why I was doing things the way I was". I was trying to tell him that it sounded like he was just saying, "All this time I was right & you were wrong, & I'm glad you came to realize that". I wanted to let him know that I really think SS needs to understand that he realizes he did some things wrong too. He was impatient with him. He was angry with him when he should've tried to understand him. DH is good about expressing what he feels, but sucks at explaining why. Even in my effort to talk to DH about it, as soon as I would start trying to explain my thoughts, he'd cut me off & go off on something completely unrelated to what I was trying to say. I don't think he ever got the point. I know he was still processing all that went on, & I was too. It's something I need to address when he doesn't have so much flowing through his mind already.
Anyway, when BM finally showed up, SS challenged DH to talk to BM. He said that BM is scared to talk to him because she doesn't know what to say. She wants to be able to have conversation with DH but doesn't know how. Whatever. She had SD with her this time. We had the rest of her gifts for her. DH got out & went over to talk to SD & BM. SS stayed & talked to me for about 10 minutes.
As DH was moving SD's gifts to BM's car, SS asked if they were all for SD. I told him yes, & explained that all-in-all there were more for her because we were able to give him his gifts at his 16th birthday party, but were un-invited from her party that year, so we still had her stuff from that. He told me he wasn't so worried about the gifts, but just wanted to spend time with his dad & have a relationship with him. He said that SD felt guilty because she felt like she got more than SS did & didn't understand why. The first set of gifts we gave them was when we went to work on SS's car. We had a "Fossil" wallet & a leather-strap necklace with a Father/Son chinese symbol pendant. We gave SD a $50 gift card to Kohl's & an Aeropostale bag with nail polish, compact mirror, & some other small stuff in it. I could tell that while SS was saying it didn't bother him, it did. I explained that the pendant we gave him was $57 itself, & the wallet was $55. I got SD's bag & everything in it on Black Friday. The bag was $11, & what was in it didn't total $30. The $50 to Kohl's was part of her birthday present that we missed, & the 3 boxes we gave her this weekend were the rest of her birthday gifts. It was just a bunch of stickers, felt, scissors, paint...a bunch of craft stuff I'd picked up throughout the year off clearance racks & put it all together for her birthday. So, her birthday maybe totaled $70 & for his we spent $167 on his new glasses. That was what he asked DH for.
I told him I don't ever want him to feel like we make any difference between him & SD, & I told him that DH is very aware of that because he grew up with a grandfather who made it clear that SIL was the prize child.
One of the other things he brought up with DH was doing for them without having to be asked. I don't even remember how it came up, but the idea was DH telling SS that if they needed anything to just ask. SS's reply was, "Why do we have to ask? Why can't you just do things because they need to be done?" DH explained that short of sending CS, we don't know when they need clothes. We don't know when they need stuff for school, etc. It was different when they were living with us & we could see their clothes getting too small or their shoes didn't fit. We don't see those things anymore. DH told him about BM & her mom spending $300 on all the namebrand clothes for the kids to start school. They brought the clothes to a football game, showed DH what they bought & told him he owes them $150. DH told them no. SS understood, & rebutted with, "But that was mom & nanny that did that...not me & SD." I hadn't thought about it that way, & it gave me something to consider, but didn't change the fact that DH was not obligated to throw $150 at them.
While I was talking to him, I told him we will do anything we can to help them out. I asked if there was anything they needed (since he brought it up with DH). He said he needed shoes for school. (I know his nanny just bought him 3 pairs a week ago, because he told DH when they got back from the mall.) I told him that maybe next time he came DH could take him out to look for some. I also continued to explain what DH started on with it. I told him that DH didn't do as much for them the last couple of years because there was no contact. I explained that for so long BM would only agree to meet him for pick-up/drop-off if DH would give her money for gas. I went back to the school clothes thing, & I told him I understand that that was not him or SD looking for payment, but that stuff like that made DH feel like his obligation was just to be an open wallet for them to rape at their leisure. I told him that when the shit blew up in court, he decided he wasn't going to be that anymore. SS said he understood.
I hugged him & told him we were so glad he came & he just kept saying he really wants to fix things with his dad. I told him to just keep talking to him & that it'd work out. I explained that there is hurt & anger on both sides that needs to heal, & it will take awhile, but that as long as they keep talking things out, it will heal. He hugged me again before he left.
SD never did come over to speak to me, & I didn't dare approach BM's vehicle to see her. DH hugged SS & said goodbye.
He didn't really know what to say when he got back in the car, so I asked the obvious, "So, what did BM say? Was she nice?". He said the first thing she said was, "Oh more presents for SD. Did you give SS more presents?" DH told her we went all out on good steaks for dinner, he took him out for breakfast, a movie, & lunch. He told her he felt that was plenty for a 1-night stay. She told him congratulations on our marriage. He said thank you & asked how she was doing...was everything okay with her. She said no, that she guesses she'll be the old maid living with her kids pets. He said something like, "Don't worry, your someone will find you.". (*puke*)
Then she asked if he was ever going to spend any one-on-one time with his son, or was I going to be up their asses all the time. He told her we are down to 1 vehicle & that he doesn't feel it's right to leave his wife at home without a way to get anywhere, so until he gets another truck, I will be with him. That part got me just because she's been such a bitch about ordering her mother to keep DH in her line of vision at all times with this supervised visitation, but then is going to chime in because I'm present??? Just something more to accuse him of being wrong on. Stupid whore.
I've processed the entire weekend in my head over & over since drop-off. It seems no matter what DH does, it's wrong. All this time BM has been saying that what he pays in CS isn't enough, & that you'd think he'd want his kids to have more from him. Now, he's been in court for 5 years trying to see them so he could take them shopping & do for them. He's done everything in his power to be there for them & do for them & give them a relationship that money can't buy, but when it comes down to it, her arguement isn't about them having more from him. Her arguement is that they should have more MONEY from him. So, he made every effort to give them more & he was criticized. He finally played dead after they kicked him down the last time & they criticized him for not trying hard enough. He had gifts for them for special days we couldn't be with them & was criticized for giving too many. He's being criticized for not doing enough for them for the last 2 years that they've refused to speak to him...??? WTF??? I suppose we could've just picked a random pair of shoes & mailed them to them in hopes that his fatherly instincts would help him pick the right size.
I was in tears halfway home because when all of it processed, I was so angry. Though SS really is trying & I know he truly is...I'm so angry that all of the blame is falling on DH's shoulders again. That's why I really feel like the only way this is going to get sorted & everyone be able to feel good again is to hash it out with a counselor...someone who can point out that there is blame to be shared on every side. If DH points it out, or if I point it out, we'll get grilled for it & everything will come undone again.
All-in-all the weekend was good. I'm glad he came. I'm glad him & DH got to spend some time playing games. I'm glad I got to spend some time with them, & I'm glad that he is at an age, now, where he talks to me. I know he talks to me because I listen. I know it's frustrating for him to talk to DH because DH dominates the conversation. I feel like all I can do is encourage him to keep trying, & keep letting him know that the struggle is not his alone, but that the end result will be well worth the struggle.
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Comments
You offer a lot for us to
You offer a lot for us to consider. Thank you!
We haven't addressed the issue of PAS with SS, for fear of him taking it as an ugly accusation against BM. Granted, it is an ugly thing, & it certainly plays a giant part in what has happened in our situation. I know that mentioning it is going to piss him off & he will immediately come to SM's defense.
I think I have a better understanding & a more open mind to SS's position in all of this & I have made more of an effort to really try to see things from his POV than DH has. DH has spent these years with everything reeling through his mind...the hurt, the anger, & the rejection. I have had it all reeling through my mind too, but I tend to put more effort into understanding why it is the way it is. Rather than giving it that thought, DH just tries not to think about it. I know how hurt & angry I have been over it. I can't imagine how those feelings would escalate if they were my children treating me the way his have.
The fact that they were children & have learned what they've been taught...it's hard to know how much accountability to place with them & how much to place with BM. SS is still trying to hold DH accountable for a court date SS initiated. Really...I guess placing blame is where our focus should be, but somehow we get stuck in that cycle. I feel like DH is angry with SS about things that are BM's to own & answer for. She is the one who's done the brainwashing. Are the kids the ones who told the judge they didn't want to see DH anymore? Yes, but it was because BM convinced them that they should fear DH.
I don't know how to approach the idea of alienation with SS without outright accusing BM of doing this terrible thing. He's angry with her for having left them when they were little, but even with that, he'll jump to her defense in a heartbeat. I worry that he'll just feel like we're attacking her.
I think having a counselor be
I think having a counselor be the one to address it would feel less threatening than if DH or I were to bring it up too.
I really do think that if he can get past the "blaming mom" part of it & recognize that it has been an issue he would take interest in really trying to figure out how it all came about, & he would be able to recognize the part that it has played in his attitude & thinking. I think that for us to bring it up with him, right now at least, would put things a bit too close to home.
What you said about him thinking "mom was right"...I hadn't thought of that, but yes, that accusation would fall right into it.
I think she's going for the
I think she's going for the death grip now that she knows it's only a matter of a couple months. DH is helping SS get his car together. BM's mother is helping him get things in order to get his license. Once those things are done & he turns 18, she's going to lose him. Of course, he'll always love her. There's not a doubt in my mind. But, she will have to come to grips that she no longer has control of his whereabouts or doings.
SS made some kind of comment (I don't even remember what it was about). DH replied with, "What's your mom gonna do when you're grown up & on your own?". SS's answer was, "I dunno...get a life...?" DH said, "She doesn't have a life?" & SS said, "It seems that way".
He's tired of having to entertain her & keep her occupied.