.

So I do not get a lot of cs from my ex. Heck what I pay for health insurance for bs at one point was more than what I was getting...don't even mention summer daycare.

That said I never would ask for extras. Cs is supposed to be that person's contribution to raising the child.

My son plays a sport and it costs money.... I pay it. He pays an instrument...I pay for it.

My ex announced at conferences in front of the teacher when we were discussing the 5th grade fundraiser that he would not contribute becasuse he pays me child support and thast covers his contributions to anything .

That was embarrassing for all of us....except him.

It's hard to judge really, but I would say that when a ncp is paying some of the sums I see on here then it should be considered done and dusted and the cp should not be asking for extras unless it really is a once off or something big like a car or getting married.

It's interesting that you blogged about this as i just added to a blog this:-

BM here paid a paltry amount of CS for skid. $55 per month. She was earning enough to be paying at least double that but DH had been stupid enough to agree to this so the courts let it go. There was nothing about any extras in the CO.

One year the scouts camp was quite expensive as they were going to switzerland and DH asked BM to chip in and of course the answer to that was ' how dare you ask me for money, I pay you cs, that's what it's for!!'  NO, cs of that paltry amount didn't even cover the food, clothes, shoes etc let alone the school fees or any holidays or extras. She is mean as hell, only willing to pay out on herself. She never once bought a coat or a pair of shoes for them. She expected to use the stuff that DH had bought and once brought the subject up asking why they were not bringing a suitcase of clothes with them when they went to her. DH said 'read the CO. It says each parent will provide for the child's needs when the child is with them'  and of course he got the 'that's what I pay cs for!!' again. She spent more on cigarettes a month than she paid in CS.

In our case the problem was that DH had let her off easy (in the hope of a 'friendly divorce') and she took advantage of it. The law here says that even if it IS less than the recommended amount if you both agreed then it stands and it cannot be changed unless there is a significant change to the ncp income. So we are stuck with it. I could throttle DH for what he has allowed her to get away with before i came on the scene but it happens a lot.. usually with men thinking that the ex will be decent and not take advantage.

I also think it depends on what the ncp is spending on those kids. If they are being bought designer clothes and expensive electronics that they don't really need i.e.an iphone when a normal smartphone would suffice (just and example) then I think the ncp should have a say.

I think there are a whole lot of factors that go into this, so the answer can't really be black and white.  So let's take 2 dads, paying the same amount of CS $1,000.00 a month. 

BM1: Works a part time job and drives a newer model expensive car, always has her hair and nails done, goes on cruises (without skids) buys $2000.00 puppies.... you get the idea.  If this BM is asking for help with EXTRAS I would say hell no, that's what CS is for! 

BM2:  works a full time job, takes kids on a nice vacation each year, doesn't always have the best of everything but her kids are well dressed in clothes and shoes that actually fit.  If this BM is asking for help with EXTRAS I would be inclined to split the extra with her.

I mean it's usually pretty obvious when a BM is using thier CS as an "income" instead of support for thier kids.  Like BM2 (who only worked PT) used to tell DH that his CS went towards her rent so she would always call wanting help with buying school supplies, clothes, etc.  Yet, she had no problems going off on weekend trips with her BF (and leaving SS with us), always getting hair and nails down and always buying clothes, purses etc for herself.  My argument was, she'd be paying rent regardless of her having a kid or not, so I don't understand the rationalization that CS went towards "rent" it should have been going towards the purchase of clothes, school supplies, etc for SS.   

When I see skids in designer clothes/shoes and $800 gaming computers BM definitely isn't hurting for money. Granted CS is still for the skids once BM receives it is her money and she can spend it on whatever she wants and it is none of DH's business but she is getting more than enough in CS. When she starts asking for extra money the answer would be no! I guess it all depends on the situation. If you aren't paying enough to cover basic needs to the kids then I would say you aren't paying enough for CS.

Considering that it is a calcuator based on income I really don't see the point in asking. That is, as long as the kids are cared for.

However we are in a situation that is very irriatating. SO is miltary. They include housing allowance in CS calculations. BM refused to work. We are going to be station in a very expensive part of the country that will raise housing by alomst $1000/ mo. It is just THAT expensive to live there. BM gets a cut of it. Even though her living expenses won't change, even though she doesn't work. She gets a cut of the "raise" in housing allowance.  

I think any time there is a CS order the person receiving it needs to budget accordingly and make due. 

Sure, there are some CS orders that are pathetically low, but I don't think they are the norm. Also, I'm inclined to believe those people were very likely making pitiful wages/not working full time, etc. when the other parent chose them as a breeding partner. I'm not sure why anyone chooses to have kids with a person who has proven to have a crap employment history/poor work ethic and then expect them to suddenly change upon becoming a parent. Sure, some people do mature and become more responsible, but that's not a chance I would ever be willing to take with my child's future. 

A person receiving CS can sit around waiting and hoping (or demanding and harassing) the NCP to earn better wages, but they have much more control over their own income.

A person paying it always has a right to say, "That's why I pay you CS" end of story. They may be an underpaying dirtbag, but courts have decided that's what they owe to their child(ren). In my experience, I have seen far more CS orders that sound insanely high compared to those on the other end of the spectrum.

I have SO MANY mixed feelings. We've been lucky and really haven't had to pay CS, DH and I honestly don't want CS from BM (we just want her to go away and leave the girls alone). But i struggle reading on here... On one hand, I get why we have CS! Helps make sure the skids get equal opportunity. But i don't think the NCP should have to be struggling to feed anyone else, having to rely on his partner, or having to get a second job just to pay CS either! I think if it's that much, then they're being charged TOO MUCH!

Plus there are all these stories you hear about the CP deciding not to work, or artificially lowering income, and I don't think that's okay either! I think when you create a kid you have to work. And you shouldn't be deciding not to work and getting the NCP to pay more. 

So I think that it should be based on visititation time, but the CP should be required to work and the NCP shouldn't have to be getting a second job just to survive either.

No set amounts... Just needs more equality in the responsibility that needs to be there too.

Generally, CS should be expected to cover the cost of raising the child while it lives with the CP... with the CP having a factor in paying their own relative portion.  (so CP doesn't necessarily get 100% of cost to raise child.. because they should have some expectation of kicking in their own resources).  In this scenario I think the NCP may also need to pay for things that happen exclusively in their home like furniture... electronics and some clothing that ostensibly stay in the NCP home.

What I don't think is factored into CS necessarily are GIFTS....things that would normally be considered gifts like high end electronics... cars... christmas & birthday gifts.. Each parent should buy their own version of these.. perhaps agree to chip in some together for something like a vehicle.  (I am assuming this is a moderate CS order and not some of the super extreme amounts where someone is paying over 2K/month for one child.. that CP can buy the car lol).

CS (the expenses covered by CS) should mostly cover the main costs of raising a child.. including standard level extra curriculars (like a youth league soccer or school sport team... but NOT a high end travel/competition team) and school fees etc...health/wellness expenses etc...

I don't like the nickel and diming and I don't like the parent who makes a unilateral decision that both parents have to pay for.  I think both parents need to have veto power for things that will significantly impact their custody time or their financial obligations. (unless medical necessary)

It's nice when people can cooperate and come to agreeable terms on extras... but I know it's often not possible.

I don't think it's a particular number, as it all depends on the circumstances.  But in a case where the NCP is paying at least half of the cost of raising the child in the CP's home, that's probably enough.

My SO does not pay any CS.  He and his ex have 50/50 custody.  He buys clothes, toys and essentials for our house, and she buys clothes, toys and essentials for hers.  They split childcare (they use the same babysitter), activities, medical, birthday parties, school supplies/fees and the like.  BM pretty much selects the activities and plans the parties, and SO ponies up his half.  She often doesn't discuss it with him first (and he usually doesn't care), but because they have similar financial situations, she's not going to do something if she can't afford half.  I think you can run into difficult situations when the two parents are in very different financial places.

My husband pays $1500/month for SD10, which I think is more than enough. Their CO says that my husband has to pay 96% of extra curricular activities ("as agreed upon by the two parties"), medical expenses, university tuition, childcare costs, etc. I think some things on that list should be taken off, given how much CS he pays. BM should get a damn job if she wants SD to have more things paid for. She's the only one of the four adults in SD's life who doesn't work or contribute to her life financially in any way.

She will often enroll SD in every activity under the sun without asking my husband ahead of time, then save receipts for 3 years and send them to him demanding that he reimburse her. He never has because she doesn't go about it the right way. She's even tried to get Maintenance Enforcement to take payment from him but they won't.

At what point does a NCP need to get a better paying job/a second job?

When s/he is willfully underemployed strictly to avoid CS and/or the child has a need for which the parents need to provide additional funds. If a parent is so broke that s/he needs a second job to pay the bills, all the extras go away. If the NCP is working as hard as s/he can to provide, then that is life. Extra-curriculars, activities, non-thrift clothing, phones, etc are all WANTS not NEEDS. Food, water, shelter, medical - that all comes first. Not just for the kids, either. Needs for parents also come before wants of children. Most parents will sacrifice some/all of their wants for the wants of their children. But parents cannot be expected to sacrifice their needs for the children's wants. And while the social benefits of extra-curriculars are huge, they still don't outweigh needs. 

I don't think there is a flat $ amount that can be stated as an absolute. There are too many variables of which a major one is the local cost of living. I live an hour away from my parents. Rent here is cheaper by a couple hundred dollars for equivalent units. Taxes are lower here. Parents, especially in split families, don't always have the option of moving to a less expensive location if they take a hit to their income. 

I think those of us who are appalled by the money grubbing leaches are because it i snot in our nature to use people.

Before I experienced my ex i.had no idea that people behaved in.a nature where the just wanted someone to do everything for them...to suck them dry and claim to be the victim.  

Child support is calculated based on income and is proportional to the amount that both parents make. I will use my SO and his ex as an example. He makes 4 times as much as she does, so based on calculations, he is to pay for 4/5's of their support. Calculator put that as total support $2000, him paying $1600 per month and BM paying $400.

Based on his calculations, he roughly spends per month: $400 childcare, $200 food, $50 for clothes and extras. If you add in part of his rent (and soon to be house), how is that calculated? lets just say $500 per month extra for living someplace with kids compared to if it was just himself... that adds up to $1150 per month for the kids. In this example, BM should not have to pay anything extra at all. He isn't even spending his $1600 on their care.

Now say the total costs exceeded the $2000 total, and was actually $2500 a month. that extra $500 should be split just like the original CO.. BM pay 20% and dad paying 80%.... as long as the expenses are necessary. Phones, more expensive clothes, etc are not necessary. Medical bills = necessary. School sports or instrument, etc = depends.

So it is very hard to tell whether the NCP should have to pay more or not. If the CP is actually struggling through no fault of their own, then maybe. If they are struggling because they spend way too much on the kids and themselves, then no.

I didn't collect cs.  My ex and I didn't legally separate or divorce for years.  I always made more money (but still struggled a lot of those years) but whenever I needed extra money, he gave it to me.  My SO however, pays through the nose.  When I met him, he wasn't earning a lot.  There was one time near Christmas, he netted $9.00.  that's right - he hadn't worked a whole week and the usual amt for cs was taken leaving him with $9.  His situation has improved immensely - better job, benefits, etc. but cs still takes a huge chunk.  BM doesn't care if he's broke - she was constantly asking him to buy or pay for things....from a carton of milk to school supplies and more.  He never told her "that's what the cs is for".  He always wanted to do for his kids.  When he and I got together, I swear that woman saw dollar signs.  After we took a road trip to another state to see my mom, she demanded he pay her another $200 a week on top of cs.  (She must have thought we went on a fancy vacation).  Yeah - we had a good laugh over that.  He's smarter with his money now.  If the girls need something, like school supplies, shoes, clothes, he takes them shopping instead of just handing money over to BM.  Meds?  He picks it up from the pharmacy.   SM and both SD's have stopped asking him for extra money unless its absolutely necessary cause he stopped falling for it.  Thankfully

CS here is a chart, you live in this province, you make $$, you have xx kids = $$$$.

Extras, or section 7 expenses, music lessons, hockey, dance, summer camps, etc are split based on income. Splits can be as high as 10% - 90% but are usually 60% - 40%, men simply make more than women in most cases. 

Post secondary is included in section 7 expenses and divorced parents have to pay for it. I know that annoys the hell out of lots of people but in Canada that’s how it goes. We don’t have a big problem with health care as we have universal care but usually both parents can add the kids to their work insurance for dental and prescriptions.

Now there’s a lot of grey area. New hockey equipment is very pricey, camps can be astronomical and lots of BMs will sign kids up for everything under the sun without consulting Dad. 

However, clothes, gaming systems, daycare, daily needs should be covered by CS. 

In my experience, people will ask for what they think they can get. If Dad keeps paying for daily expenses and things that should be paid for under CS, BM will keep asking for and expecting Dad to pay.

The only way to stop it is to say No. Yes, there might be consequences that Dad doesn’t like, skids PASed and angry at him but it’ll never stop if he keeps saying yes.

I agree with the others that there are a lot of factors that come into play, so there really isn’t a magic number.

I feel we’ve really lucked out in this department - so far, and it’s mainly because of BM’s pride. She feels, and wants most people to believe, that she’s well off enough to not need to ask DH for extra contribution to skid’s existence. 

But, with that said, BM **does** milk the divorced Mom shtick hard at her job waitressing at her parent’s greasy spoon restaurant. She has, and has always had, a solid following of old, rich oil field workers that throw money at her like she’s a stripper. She is NOT hurting for money. DH is pretty sure one of them funded her boob job even.

DH settled for $600/month CS, to be paid directly to skid’s private school in lieu of child support paid directly to BM. BM wanted alimony, on top of CS, for their very short-lived marriage, but that was shot down with this deal that is in place currently. 

It was DH’s way to secure skid received a good education, opposed to BM pulling her out of private school and putting her in subpar public, and pocketing ALL the CS for herself (hair, nails, BMW lease). 

I know there will be a day, though, that BM will ask DH to dig deep, possibly. New car for her 16th birthday, or her HS graduation. It is what it is. I’m just happy she has a gaggle of old fart sugar daddies, even being recently married and all, because that is just how BM rolls. She totally sees herself as Kardashian level shiz.

Dd3's dad paid BM $1000 a month. She was a house wife when they divorced and had no income when this figure was decided. She also put them on the free state welfare health insurance. Then she got married and they were kicked off that program cause her husband's income was so high. So health insurance alone is $600 a month . SD16 has diabetes and even though there is program at work that would pay all of her costs, BM refuses to let her be enrolled as she doesn't want to turn in her readings or take her to the education classes that are required to be in the program . That program would also take away the 20 percent copay and the $600 deductible . He also took on the oldest SD's car insurance . He has to pay for a life insurance policy for BM. He is still paying off her credit card debt. His decree says he gets to claim both kids in taxes and she does it anyway and gets earned income and gets a good $6000 tax return. He still has to pay for their dinner and fun times and food with they are with him and they aren't cheap. He makes $24 an hour. And now she owns a successful hair salon. She kept asking for more and more and more. Wanted him to pay the $250 a month car insurance bill for SD16 who wrecked her first car a month after getting it and he said no. So they got in a fight and she said she was taking him back to court to get even more child support. And she lost . Big time. The judge knocked it down from $1000 to $500. Said he only had to pay half of medical and nothing cosmetic. Funny enough when I last spoke to him he said she told him both SD's broke their brand new iPhone X's and aren't eligible for replacements and demanded he buy them new phones and said she was going to take him back to court for more money again. Court was literally a month ago . She said she was going to make him pay for her attorney . She is so stupid and clueless . She can't go back to court one month later with no change in circumstance. But right before they went to court she asked him to pay for their $500 a piece prom dresses . $1000 in prom dresses ! And he actually said no. To me it's suppose to be a big pot. If dad puts in a $1000 a month and mom puts in say $800. I myself have four kids. I don't spend $1000 on my four kids much less $1800. But if I did Have $1800 designated to spend on the kids I could buy them prom dresses and car insurance . Especially if I had a rich husband whose 2 story home was paid for and who owned an automotive shop and could get me any car I wanted for free so I didn't have to have a car payment . But that isn't BM.