Apologize
I have no bio kids of my own, but have a SD8.
We (my SO and I) deal with some behavior issues from her sometimes.... she definatly tries to push things a little fiurther with me and her grandmother more than her father...
Anyways... when she misbehaves with her fahter or he hears she has misbehaved for me or her grandmother he does try to disipline her. (pretty lightly if you ask me... or he will say what her punishment will be but then goes way easier than he said he would. But that is a complaint for another time). In addition to the punishment it is explained to her why the behavior was not acceptable.
My concern is that she NEVER apologies unless she is instructed to. If she gets in trouble for ignoring me, or talking back to grammy, if she is not specifially told she needs to apoligize, she wont. At what age should a child start apologizing on her own? I dont know if this is typical 8 year old behavior or if this is a sign of lack or remorse or empathy. Her BM has always refused to take accountability for her mistakes (lots of arrests, jail time, and keeps repeating).
I just dont know if her refusal to apoligize is normal behavior for an 8 year old , or if its a sign of a "nature" overriding "nurture"
any feedback would be appreciatied.
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I think that kids model
I think that kids model behavior they see and are taught... Even if they are taught to "sometimes" say it.. if they don't see others modeling that behavior.. they may have the impression it is not necessary.
Yes! This!
DH has told me before that SD has felt bad about something she did to me, but she rarely apologizes. And if she has, DH is standing there to coerce it out of her.
I have a DD3 and is definitely something that has to be taught and modeled. My DD is pretty good about please, thank you, and apologies, but we work with her (and so does daycare).
SD13 rarely says please and thank you too. Even to DH.
She does see and hear her
She does see and hear her father and I apologize to each other...
for example yesterday I forgot to turn the heat down before I left the house (I'm always the last to leave and we turn the heat down when we are not home so we don't waste fuel).
i apologized... if he forgets to take out the trash... he'll apologize. But we always try and make sure to be respectful of each other so we never really need to apologize for disresepctful behavior.
Occasionally we say something that offends the other with out intending to do that, and there is always an apology for that. She sees others apologize without being prompted.
Exactly this. My DH
Exactly this. In private my DH will apologize to me before I've finished speaking because he wants to stop the conversation. In public (like in front of the kids) he will not apologize, if a kid needs to apologize he will tell the kid in private and not follow-up. The skids have learned not to apologize and to avoid the person to whom they need to apologize.
I'm not sure you understood
I'm not sure you understood my post... I was saying that she DOES see her father and I apologize.
im sorry yours does not truely apologize to you. Apologizing simply to end the conversation is disrespectful and you deserve more respect than that.
He needs to set the example for his kids how to treat his wife. Have you told him how this makes you feel?
DH wonders why the SDs don't
DH wonders why the SDs don't magically say "please" and "thank you" - well DH, no one taught them to!
SDs best friends are super polite, they always thank me for giving them a ride if I do, or for dinner or snacks. GOOD parenting is the issue.
She is pretty good with
She is pretty good with please and thank you... occasionally needs a remainder but for the most part has pretty good manners when it comes to that
he does try to disipline her.
he does try to disipline her.... or he will say what her punishment will be but then goes way easier than he said he would.
He's the biggest part of the problem. SD sees that Daddeeee never follows through.
He will tell me what her
He will tell me what her punishment will be but then when it comes to telling her... he goes softer. She never knew what he originally told me what it would be so she doesn't see that he is backing off.
my issue is that what he originally tells me seems age appropriate. But when it comes to delivery he softens up to the point where the punishment has no real effect.
for example if she talks back... he'll say to me that she has to go to bed 30 minutes early.... when he talks to her... it turns into 15 minutes. I don't think 15 minutes of going to bed early will have much impact on an 8 year old. 30 minutes might send the message home that she is dealing with a consequence.
Am I to strict?
Sweetie, it doesn't matter
Sweetie, it doesn't matter what you think. What matter is that Daddeee has no follow-through with the punishment. He needs to sack up and PARENT. If he half-arsed his job, he wouldn't be able to keep it. He needs to stop half-arsing at parenting or this kid will be a even bigger problem than she is now.
I would agree this needs addressed by the Bio Dad
I have seen this sort of thing at home. The Bio parent has to establish expectations and boundaries and if they impose a punishment, not following through tells the child it is not important
Well, she doesn't say she's
Well, she doesn't say she's sorry, because she isn't sorry. That's why it makes no sense for force kids to apologize. If they aren't sorry, making them say so doesn't mean anything.
If you get pulled over for running a stop sign, do you say, "I'm sorry, Officer," while he gives you a ticket? Most likely, no - you are upset that you got caught, not feeling bad for what you did.
Most likely, while she doesn't like getting punished, she doesn't really think she's done anything wrong.
Now, if she accidentally stepped on your toe, would she say sorry? Would she feel bad if she hurt someone's feelings and didn't mean to? Those are better measures of empathy.
You ask a good question...
You ask a good question... and that's where I am stuck....
if she accidentally stepped on my toe... yes she would say sorry... if I said she did something to hurt my feelings... not so much..
But if she meant to hurt your
But if she meant to hurt your feelings, then no - she's not sorry. Does she feel bad for animals who are hurt? For other children who get hurt?
Absolutely she feels badly
Absolutely she feels badly for animals that are hurt as well as other children.
there was a day a couple of weeks ago where I had a day from hell. It was an aweful day where nothing went right and I had PMS to boot. I came home and just cried my eyes out. I was done. She saw that I was upset, tried so hard to console me and make me feel better... she even tried giving me her stuffed unicorn because it was "magic".
but then I worry cause if SHE does something to hurt someone's feelings she has a very hard time apologizing with out being told to...
I see an amazing level of empathy and compassion sometimes and other times it's like a total disconnect.
It sounds like she doesn't
It sounds like she doesn't like admitting to being wrong, and views an apology as an admission that she's wrong. If she is otherwise an empathic and compassionate child, maybe her father needs to have a conversation with her about personal responsibility, and tell her that everyone makes mistakes and does things that are wrong, and it's important to own up to that and apologize, and both she and others around her will feel better if she learns to do that. Maybe she's learning the blame game from her mother and she just needs to be taught otherwise. It'll probably take a lot of reinforcement, but her dad needs to be teaching her this.
Thank you. I do agree 100%
Thank you. I do agree 100%
we have been trying to stress to the importance of accountability.... it's been hard.
her BM refuses to take accountability for anything. Although contact is limited she very much has her BM personality. we do worry that this will just be part of her personality as well.... but I see so many good qualities in her that her BM lacks.
When I taught preschool I did
When I taught preschool I did not force an apology. I explained to the child what he/she did that hurt the other person. Tried to build up empathy. "Oh no XX is crying(or mad). Why do you think they are crying (or mad)?" This gives them the opportunity to figure out they need to apologize. I would ask if they want to say sorry and if they say no I respect that. If they're not sorry, no need to give out fake ass apologies. I really was a great preschool teacher. I didn't use words like fake ass lol. I save that for steptalk
Some of it is an age/expectation thing
DS was taught to say please/thank you/sorry/etc. But like any kid, he didn't do it consistently. It didn't take much (8 weeks in college) to make him appreciate what he had, and now he's home for a weekend and it's raining manners.
An apology that is not
An apology that is not heartfelt or accompanied by remorse is worthless. Children who feel remorse can be taught to apologize. When your SD tells her father she feels bad about doing something, he should be telling her to apologize and explaining why it's good to do so. He should do that consistently. If, after that, she doesn't apologize, then she probably really doesn't feel remorse.
My ss is 21.5 and after all the crap he pulled which has
many times really affected our marriage still feels he did nothing wrong ever.
when his dad told him to apologise to me because he wanted a fresg start, ss came to me mumbling and with a smirk the whole time mumbled a “dad told me to apologise”, i walked off.
Firstly he was not genuine, secondly he only apologised because daddy told him to, thirdly is he never apologized and said i’m sorry.
why force a kid to apologise when it’s obvious they don’t mean it
My ss is 21.5 and after all the crap he pulled which has
many times really affected our marriage still feels he did nothing wrong ever.
when his dad told him to apologise to me because he wanted a fresg start, ss came to me mumbling and with a smirk the whole time mumbled a “dad told me to apologise”, i walked off.
Firstly he was not genuine, secondly he only apologised because daddy told him to, thirdly is he never apologized and said i’m sorry.
why force a kid to apologise when it’s obvious they don’t mean it
Wow. That sucks! What a
Wow. That sucks! What a spoiled little turd!
doesn't seem to be all that bright if he thought his fake ass smirking apology would be something you fall for.
good for you for walking away!
if he does it again.... tell him (and DH) that his words are disingenuousness and you don't believe him. But his actions will speak more than his words if he wants a chance to proof himself.
Forced apologies
are pointless. Kids should apologize for things they feel are wrong after they happened. Not for things they do not feel are wrong. And kids lack tact. So she may hurt your feelings but she is stating what she believes to be true (at least in that moment) and has yet to learn when not to say things even if she believes them.
I would suggest to your husband that he use natural consequences and punishments over boiler-plate ones like going to bed early. And then saves time outs or groundings for big offenses. So, said child doesn't turn off the TV when told. The natural consequence of that is no TV the next day or time taken away from TV the next day. If she hurt your feelings then she can write a note about what it means to hurt someone else and so on.