Making BM work with me?
BM and DH only have one deceased child together, and somehow she's still able to make things a living hell just because she hates me. She will not relinquish any keepsakes or photos to DH. She has hired a bodyguard for the graveyard, and won't allow DH to visit if I attend. There were pieces of furniture that it would make sense for DH to walk away with. After much pleading, she relented, only for DH and I to arrive to see them burning, with her inside the house staring triumphantly.
Aside from the furniture, this was somehow not addressed in the divorce. Those pieces of furniture were technically awarded to her, so we couldn't do anything about it. The bodyguard wasn't a factor during the divorce, and going back to court wasn't possible right then.
How do I make his ex tolerate me enough to let DH mourn his first child? I'm having that child's half-sibling and DH's first living child and I'd like them to be able to go to the cemetery one day. DH is devastated about this but because this woman can't let go of her anger, he just has to deal with it? Seems unfair to me.
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What the heck? That's some
What the heck? That's some bizarro stuff.
I'd suggest DH just go to complete radio silence with BM. Do not initiate or respond to any communications with her. Give up on any keepsakes or visiting the cemetery (for now). Just disappear as far as BM is concerned.
People like her want a reaction. She wants to know that she still has a hold on DH, can make him angry and has power over him. Since the child is no longer alive, she can only use his grave and their belongings to control DH.
Going to a cemetery is not necessary for grieving, some people never do it. My guess is that someday, if BM gets absolutely ZERO reaction from DH, she will no longer want to pay for that security guard and this will all go away.
Don't do anything yourself except support DH. This BM sounds like she's batshit crazy and grieving, and DANGEROUS.
Unless she owns the cemetery,
Unless she owns the cemetery, hiring a security guard to keep someone out could very well be illegal.
I agree with tog, your DH
I agree with tog, your DH should try to mourn without any contact with BM. I’m sure there are keepsakes or photos he might like, but are they worth the fight...especially at this time when he’s in the midst of what I can only imagine is mind-blowing grief.
If BM really did burn furniture (I’m having a hard time imagining a place where this could happen without the fire department getting involved) then she is certifiable and your DH should just cut and run. If they no longer have a child, they have no reason for contact. He needs to focus on himself and his own grieve without getting pulled into her crazy.
We can burn things here no
We can burn things here no problem. Virtually everyone has a "burn pile." Confused the heck out of me when I first moved here. LOL
But we did take advantage of it. Psycho's dad helped us move to the new house (weird situation I know, but she cut him off and he's a good guy for the most part and just wanted to help his grandbabies) He saw a desk in storage, (when DH moved down here he just threw everything in storage, Psycho had taken a lot of the s*** when she left, so anything left he stored until we got a place, We got rid of most of it then. lol) and told me to just be rid of it because Psycho doesn't care about it, but if she got wind of it she'd use it to cause issues. We burned it. Solved the problem.
It's legal here as long as it
It's legal here as long as it's "done safely". She had time to make it happen.
She has 100% of the pictures. There is no way but to go through her.
You're having his first
You're having his first living CHILD? I'm horribly confused. Did they lose a child or a pregnancy?
The child died during birth.
The child died during birth.
This makes no sense
What pictures does he want? This is almost morbid.
I feel very sorry for both your DH and his ex. Losing a child is so awful. As to the furniture, it was not "techncially" awared to the ex, it was awarded to her. Was it the nursry furniture? Do you not think your DH is being insenstive? Let the furniture go.
As to your prospective child visiting the cemetary, that seems morbid to me. Let it go. help you DH mourn
Were you invovled with your DH before he was divorced?
We have to let it go now. It
We have to let it go now. It was burned to ashes. We just thought it would be nice for this new child to have something from their older sibling.
There were pictures taken after the birth.
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND SHE LOST A CHILD
You seem heartless.
I can't believe he would ask
I can't believe he would ask for the nursery furniture meant for his dead baby with his ex wife to use with the baby he's having with his new wife(?) (Mistress?). Just leave this poor woman alone!!
Were DH and BM married when
Were DH and BM married when the child was born? Who contracted for the photographer to take the pictures? Were there pics of just DH and the baby? Can he just contact the photographer directly?
The baby died at birth
I doubt a photographer was there. Not certain how her DH does not have pix. And of these Pix, didnt most have mom barely dressed. OP is mean and a nutcase
My DH's EX actually offers
My DH's EX actually offers these types of services. There is some registration and I'm not sure if the hospitals help facilitate it.. or what. But, she takes bereavement pics of these situations. Most seem to be of the mom and baby though.. so not sure what pics there would be involving dad.. without BM.
Just stop trying to do
Just stop trying to do anything WITH her. The child has passed. The divorce is final. There is nothing left to keep them holding on to one another.
He needs to give the cemetary some time, she isn't going to keep a guard there forever. Give it a year and she will grow tired of this game.
It isn't worth the emotional damage to keep this fight going. Just remember the child and keep those happy thoughts and pictures that you do have.
Block her, possibly consider
Block her, possibly consider some relocation, change numbers, she no longer has ANY hold over him and his life.
I don't mean to be too morbid
I don't mean to be too morbid but what exactly are the pictures and keepsakes of that CHILD that didn't survive birth. I mean, what exactly are those things? It's not like there are years of the child's life memorialized in pictures etc...
And.. I don't mean to dismiss the fact that he is mourning the loss of his child.. whether the child lived one hour.. or 10 years etc.. I just mean logistically, there isn't much there that could be split up?
I think your husband would benefit more from therapy and you would be better served not trying to insert yourself (your pregnant, reminder she lost her baby self) into any of this.
The woman sounds angry and bitter... just from the loss of her baby? Or.. are there other circumstances that are factoring in? Did you get together with your DH while they were together? before the birth/death of their baby? I can see that kind of timing making you extra persona non grata to her.
Bottom line. He needs to accept that he is not entitled to any more than he was awarded in their divorce. Stop engaging her on that stuff. He needs to seek counseling to move himself through his grief. If he is permitted to visit the grave without you?... you can stay home.. or be dropped off at a store nearby etc.. This is probably not one of those times you need to be "right". In all likelihood, with no living child between them, your DH and his EX should be able to move on with their lives without dealing with each other. That is something that a lot of people on here wish they could have.
The best possible
The best possible thing you can do is to get him some therapy. Losing a child at birth is truly horrible. But clearly this happened quite some time ago if he is now married to you and you are expecting his future child. He needs help moving on from what was a terrible chapter in his life rather than continuing to allow it to haunt him. Frankly this sounds like a 1980's V.C.Andrews novel straight out of "Flowers in the Attic" or something. No, I am not saying this is fake. I am saying this woman is crazed at the loss she suffered and is trying to drag your DH into the crazy with her. Don't let that happen. Grief is normal. Hiring security guards at graves and bonfires of furniture while staring down from a window is not. People move on from tragedy every day. The key is giving themselves permission first and sometimes that takes professional help.
How long ago did the baby
How long ago did the baby pass away?
7 years ago this year. Their
7 years ago this year.
There has been
There has been a security guard standing watch over a grave for 7 years? Is this the grave of a child or the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier? Sorry but that was a bridge too far for me.
I am assuming the guard
Only started when the OP got involved. Note the guy has been divorced for two months
This started when I started
This started when I started to come around. This guy has been on her payroll for about 6 months, maybe a little more.
How old are you?!? You are
How old are you?!? You are whining about the "unfairness" of this situation?! Seriously? LOL This woman has dealt with losing a baby and a husband who didn't even wait for the divorce before he knocked up somebody else. Then he has the balls to ask for their dead baby's furniture?? You want to bring your pregnant ass to visit the grave of her dead baby? Are you friggin kidding me?? You're lucky all she did was burn the shit.
Sorry, this is getting to
Sorry, this is getting to bizarre for me.
Yeah, this isn't passing the
Yeah, this isn't passing the sniff test anymore.
This is hands down, the most
This is hands down, the most insensitive post I have ever read here. OP, let it go. That is truly the nicest thing I can say.
This can’t be real. You
This can’t be real. You wanted nursery furniture that was meant for a baby who didn’t survive birth? I can’t imagine why on earth anyone would think that BM should give that to you. Especially based on the timeline I’m putting together, you were pregnant while they were still married?
And in 7 years DH never thought to save the photos that supposedly mean so much to him? It wasn’t until you were in the picture that it became so urgent for him to have possession of these photos? I’m not buying it.
Finally, YOU have no reason to go to the cemetery. Geez. If your DH wants to go, let him go alone. It is borderline psychotic for you to insert yourself into that situation.
I’m sorry, I just cannot believe this is real. But if it is, the problem is you and your clueless DH. Not BM.
He wanted at least some of
He wanted at least some of them when they were divorcing. The mother shouldn't have an exclusive claim just because the child is deceased.
THAT was the time to get them
THAT was the time to get them.. not 7 years later. Sorry that BM isn't being more accomodating but I'm guessing that she is all sorts of crazy upset that her EX is asking for this stuff and the fact that you are pregnant must be dredging up a ton of issues.
Just be mindful.. things could happen during your delivery too.. have some empathy for her situation.
Well they only got divorced two months ago
And yet, OP is pregnant. So really no good time.
So how did that conversation go?
"Hey ex wife! You know that crib we were going to use for our baby? Well, I am having a new baby and wanted to know if I could have it. I mean, it would save me some money and it's not like we ever used it."
Is this post even real???
Is this post even real??? Details of this story do not add up.....
Also if this baby passed away at birth how many photos are there of this child?
Asking for the furniture was
Asking for the furniture was beyond the pale.
There are a lot of marriages that don't survive the loss of a child. There are a lot of divorces that drag on well past the expiration date on the relationship. Some jurisdictions require x period of separation as the beginning of the divorce process. So perhaps there was an extended period between separation and finalization. Having said that, if you (and your pregnancy) were the motivating factor in their divorce the furniture request is that much more cruel and absurd.
Do you know why their marriage ended?
How much of this fuckery is his driving and how much of this is your own?
I get the impression that the divorce was not due to the strain on the relationship over the loss of the child - an inability of one or the other to move forward in life. If that were the case, all signs (based on the mother's actions) would point to her "being stuck" and the father not - meaning his ludicrous requests do not come from a place of grief. If I had to guess they come from a place of competition that originates with you. Even if you weren't a factor in their divorce.
Why, and don't claim for sentimental reasons surrounding a child that has long since left this life having never been present in your own, would you encourage such behavior out of your husband/father of your unborn child?
While she doesn't appear to be behaving entirely rationally, what did you really expect? Truly?
Was she supposed to just hand over the remnants of her prior life, the loss of her child that devastated her? Compounded by whatever factors were at play in the divorce (that was just finalized)? As though she should be overwhelmed with joy at the request?
Your lack of compassion or any bit of remorse over your involvement in this chit show are a bit uncomfortable, not quite second hand embarrassment. Is second hand shame a thing?
I think, rather than examining the mother's motives, you should take an honest look at your own and figure out what drives your urge for such a sick competition with this woman. Death is final in this world, there is no need to burn this woman to the ground in order to lay the foundation for your life with him.
Everybody's behavior in this situation, from what you've said, is gross. They lost a child and a marriage. What is your excuse?
I thought this forum viewed
I thought this forum viewed fathers as equal to mothers. Does the mother have an exclusive claim if the child dies??
AHA and you have revealed
AHA and you have revealed yourself again.
LOL right!
LOL right!
Care to elaborate on which
Care to elaborate on which part of my post makes an argument that a mother is above a father? Or that I (or as you put it, this site) don't support equal parental rights where due?
Neither has a legal obligation to the other at this point. Marriage has been dissolved, property settlement has been reached. Is your concern with moral obligation? Do you think she is being unfair? Do you not see the irony in suggesting you have the moral high ground here?
The time to argue the terms of divorce were, shockingly, during the divorce process. Can he make a request to open that up for new debate or resettlement? Sure. Will it be granted? Highly unlikely. Does he have a legal argument for it? Doesn't sound like it.
If you could state it so plainly - what exactly is the problem you see and what would you suggest as a solution?
You said that the father had
You said that the father had no rights to pictures of his child or possessions that should have been theirs. Which puts the mother above the father.
I did, did I? Want to show me
I did, did I? Want to show me where?
What I hinted at was that asking for furniture the woman was awarded in the divorce, that was recently finalized, was cruel under the circumstances. And that if you or your pregnancy were any type of factor in the divorce that the request was more cruel than initially suggested.
That your brain translates that to I think mothers are somehow superior is interesting to me.
I'll ask again, if you care to answer. What do you see as the problem with this woman and her dealings with a man she no longer has any obligation to and vice versa? What do you think is a solution to that problem?
All depends on how the
All depends on how the divorce decree was worded. DH's said "anything currently in either party's posession." So if it has something similar. She had them, so yeah. He has no right. Very simple. Always go by the divorce decree or custody order.
No, mom doesn't have an
No, mom doesn't have an exclusive claim, though for a child that didn't even make it past birth.. I might think that the mother who actually carried the child might have more of a connection vs the father's "idea" of the child. But in any case, your husband went through a separation and divorce with his EX. Anything he wanted.. pictures, furniture.. should have been straightened out THEN. Coming back after the fact and demanding stuff... and especially under the circumstances? No.. he has no leg to stand on here.
^ Psycho came demanding a
^ Psycho came demanding a washer and dryer, that DH got in the decree since it said "whatever is in either party's possesion." Just came accross as Psycho. If she wanted it, she should have handled it. Didn't matter because we had already gotten rid of it, but still. The demanding after the fact was obnoxious and just a way to remain relevant. Should have handled it at the beginning if she wanted it.
7 years ago... or at the time
7 years ago... or at the time of the divorce.. that was when your husband (not you.. never you) should have gotten what he wanted from the marital home.. pictures.. crib.. whatever.
You can't imagine why the woman wouldn't want to give him a crib that was meant for her deceased baby... so his "next" wife's live one could use it?
Think about that OP. You lose your baby in childbirth, the loss of the child is also the impetus for your relationship ending with your husband. He moves on and finds a new woman.. impregnates her and then comes back years later and says. "yeah.. that crib we were going to use.. can I have it.. my new wife is pregnant.. wanna congratulate me?"
seriously.. no.
And.. your baby will at some point in it's life learn that their father had another child that didn't survive it's birth. I don't think that expectations of your baby wanting to visit the grave are all that realistic.. and by that time, of course, BM likely will have moved on from the 24/7 guard situation... which honestly seems to just be about you.. so why not just let your DH visit his child's grave without you.
You are making this about you.. you are bringing his old relationship into your home.. just stop.
The divorce was final two months ago
The situaiton stinks
How were the pictures printed
How were the pictures printed? Does Walgreens still have the digital files?
This post has an icky
vibe.
I cannot imagine my reaction if a woman came along and demanded furniture that belonged to my diseased child. And wanted to use it for her baby. Why? Why would anyone think that was a good idea?
Just move on. There is no reason to have any contact with his ex anymore. It sounds like he is the one making her life hell and not the other way around.
Yet this meets all the rules
Yet this meets all the rules and no profanity so it's allowed...eye roll.
This cant be real.
This cant be real.
If this is real
All I can say is karma is a bitch.