What do you think?
SD12 is in 7th grade. She is in honors Social studies and Honors English. Regular math, choir, and science. She is doing okay in her regular classes. But is failing the social studies and english. In 6th grade her teacher then suggested that she go into honors classes for Jr. High based on her scores from 6th grade. Now SD is in Jr. High and she has homework every single day. The homework part is very important here in this issue. Just an FYI: SD12 has never had real homework. From Kindergarten through 6th grade, SD brought home maybe a handful of assignments/projects. SD has been with us full time since 2012 and hasn't had homework. Since DH got full custody, SD's report cards have been much better. Now back to the issue at hand here...
SD is seriously struggling in her SS and english class. She has many hours of homework each night for SS's. DH was helping her too much for a few weeks there, but now he is only helping her understand something that she doesn't get/going over homework for completion. Last night seemed to be the straw that broke DH's back. DH was quizzing SD on SS Vocab and certain things that she needs to know for a test tomorrow. SD didn't seem to know much of anything. She had a packet full of questions, she was instructed by her teacher to look in her text AND do ONLINE research(over a week 1/2 time span) to find the answers. She did that after a day of "I dont get it or I dont know how" Now, she has a stack of papers with all of the answers. This packet is now her study guide.
DH was saying that she should have retained at least SOME of the information since SD was the one who researched the answers and wrote them down. She didn't! She's not memorizing anything she needs to know. DH and I don't understand if it's because she needs to remember so many different things, or if because SD isn't focused the way she should be. Growing up, I aced Social Studies, science, English/Literature and History..I struggled with math. I am biased because I think it's easy..It's just SS's in my mind. DH brought SD12 to tears last night because he wasn't falling for the "ohh poor mee its too hard" crap. SD was begging DH to take her out of Honors classes because it's too hard. DH told her that if she wants out because she doesn't want to put in the work then no, she stays in honors. DH emailed the teacher last night. Waiting for a reply for the social studies teacher. DH asked him his opnion on the matter.
In your opinion or experience, is Honors classes that much more difficult? I know they move at a faster pace, but doesn't an honor class learn the same things as regular classes? What about English? Is that harder as well.? Or is SD12 just not wanting to put in the effort.
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I agree with you. I think
I agree with you. I think it's because SD has never had to work for anything. In years past, the teachers would go over the work in class..together. No independent work or research.
Well put.
Well put.
She can go back to regular
She can go back to regular classes, and DH is thinking about it. But DH doesn't want her moved from class if it's just SD12 being lazy and we're really confused about if it's laziness on her part or if she is having trouble retaining so much info..Ahhh I don't know what to do.
I agree. DH and I have DD8
I agree. DH and I have DD8 and DS5, so we're not familiar with honors/AP classes. The schools tha DH and I attended in Middle School didn't have honors, so I don't know first hand. I keep trying to research the differences and all I see is just that honors puts in more work and moves faster.
It could be she doesn't know
It could be she doesn't know HOW to do the work. I never had to work more than the night before to get excellent marks all the way through school. It wasn't until I got to university that I was faced with the fact that I had no idea how to do research - I mean, I could read and remember, but note-taking and references?? I didn't know how to write a paper - I could write about stuff I was interested in and connect ideas, but it wasn't well-referenced or well-organized. Etc.
I took some classes on how to study. Then, a year or so later, I had the first (and worst) episode of fibromyalgia/chronic fatigue syndrome while a student. I literally could not remember what I was writing about, or learning about, or was in the middle of reading/watching. So I HAD to apply the lessons about essay outlines, etc etc. (I also only did one course per semester with tons of support from the disability centre at my university.)
So it could be that SD has no idea that until now, she's just been skating by. That being a good student doesn't fall in your lap but requires skills, that she can learn and apply.
I teach middle school 7th &
I teach middle school 7th & 8th grade, and what you are reading is correct. The basics of it are that they move faster, and have more independent work in them. They tend to have more projects, more readings, and of course higher expectations for the quality of work.
However, in history and English in particular, they also get to work on the (IMHO) the more interesting aspects of the subjects that aren't part of the state's mandatory learning objectives for that grade. So yes it IS more work, and extra material is covered. BUT it is much more interesting. IMHO
Thank you! It's good to hear
Thank you! It's good to hear from a teacher and not another student on a Yahoo! forum like Google keeps pulling up lol I read the work that SD12 is doing and to me, it's actually interesting, but like I said in my post, I'm biased because SS, history, and English are very interesting to me.
Lol of course the students
Lol of course the students don't always think it's interesting
I do know that the 7th grade honors English teacher at my school has a different grading scale for her 'honor students' vs her regular students. For example, a paper that got an 'A' grade in her regular English class might only receive a 'B' in her honors class; simply because she has higher expectations for them. She expects the honors students to be able to do more than just the grade level standards, and the grades they receive reflect that.
I do think that it is possible that your SD doesn't know how to study as well. We have a lot of kids weeded out of AP/Honors classes in middle school because of that. The classes are designed to push them past basic grade level standards, and if she has never been pushed before I'm sure her high grades came pretty easily for her in 6th grade.
As a general rule, I recommend waiting until half-way through (progress reports) the second grading period before letting a child drop out of an honors class. That way it gives them time to figure out what the class is like, what they need to do differently, and shows if they really are not capable of bringing up the grade or if they are just not used to working so hard.
Thank you for your advice. I
Thank you for your advice. I did mention to DH last night that "SD has more than SS going on in her life, maybe she is having trouble focusing on her work because she's wondering why the girl to her right is doing such and such and shes wondering if she'll see the cute boy in the hall next period." DH didn't want to hear that SD12 is thinking about boys, but I remember being 12, and yeah...she's thinking about boys...or girls..whatever lol
My DD17 was in honors classes
My DD17 was in honors classes in middle school, so they put her in them in high school. The problem with the high school honors classes is that it was "all or nothing" -- meaning, ALL your classes were honors classes, not just math, or history, or literature/English.
My DD17 is amazing at history and literature. She sucks at math. She's just not a hard-science person. Her first year of honors in high school, she did OK -- had A+'s in history, German, and literature, B- in math and a C in biology.
Her second year she had to get a tutor for geometry an chemistry just to get by with a passing grade. Yet did extremely well (again) in history and literature, and German.
At the end of the year, she asked me if she could NOT be in honors classes her junior year. At first I was surprised, then after I thought about it, I agreed. She's good at *some* things, but not the hard sciences. Fact of life there. Just like my DS14 is amazing at hard sciences, but doesn't do well in his literature and composition classes. One's a left brainer and one's a right brainer.
Is your SD maybe more of a hard science person?
No. SD hates math and
No. SD hates math and science. She struggles severely with math. This year she is doing ok, but her math isn't honors and they haven't had any tests yet..so as of today, she is passing math. Her strong suites have always been reading/writing/English etc..which is why DH and I are so stumped.
In our district we have
In our district we have something called Edline. A website all of the teachers use to post assignments and such. I looked at the Social Studies teachers wesites...They all seem to be learning the same things..Longitude and Latitude..And that is another reason why DH and I are so stumped. It seems "regular" classes are learning the exact same thing as her Honors class. Maybe moving a tad bit faster and maybe doing more research on their own.
I don't know.... you might
I don't know.... you might want to consider putting her back in regular classes even if she *can* do the work but would rather not. Yes, I know, goes against the grain. I'm a geek, and I come from a family of teachers, so I know how important education is!
The thing is, especially in middle school, I'm not sure doing "extra" work really gets you much. As someone else pointed out, there is SO much going on at that point in their lives, they really need to learn balance. Learning appropriate social interaction, and how to relate to her peers, those are important too. (And too many parent, IMHO, don't really help teach those. They assume kids will figure it out on their own, which is how you get mean girls, and bullies, and loners, and misfits. But that's a separate issue.)
I think what's ringing alarm bells for me is this: "She has many hours of homework each night for SS's." How much time is she spending on homework, total, every night? Does she have time for social stuff? Extracurriculars? Getting to bed at a reasonable hour? TOO MUCH homework is going to stunt her in other ways. Our school system uses the general rule of thumb that a kid's TOTAL homework should be about 10 minutes per grade on any given night. So a kid in 8'th grade should be spending about an hour and 20 minutes on homework - not "many hours" on a single subject. If she is, then I'd say put her back in regular classes, that's too much.
All kids learn differently ~
All kids learn differently ~ I struggled with SS & science. Math was my favorite.
Maybe she needs to actually learn HOW to organize herself better & actually learn HOW to studying. Sounds like a lot of stuff here in independent & maybe she is struggling there. Help her plan how to actually do her homework with a planner n how to check off things when they are finished. Maybe she is just overwhelmed n doesn't know where to start. NOT per say do her homework but show her ~ quiet place to study n have all needed material.
We are all big on helping our kids but organization is the first key n time management.
My advice is she is your step
My advice is she is your step daughter and you do care but you may have to back off on this one. you push too hard sd will not do it becuase of you. i could be way off base here but in my case it blew up in my face