Wanted- full size punching bag with chain hanger.

I need to re-cap to make this all make sense. I was told that even though I took the week off from work to go to Tybee island with my SO and two SSs and the MIL, that I wasn't going to be able to go because MIL wanted the week to be about her and the boys. At the time SO and I had been arguing and she didn't want to deal with that at all and just wanted boy time. I was miffed gloriously and made it known that if the situation was reversed I would tell MIL that she had to like it or lump it.

This past weekend I found myself alone around the oldest SS12 and told him that I could tell he had been told about me not going to Tybee island. He asked how I knew and I stated that for a cool trip to be just around the corner, no one was talking about it in my presence. He stated that my SO had explained that MIL wanted boy time. I told him that I really wanted to go and spend time with them all and that I thought the entire situation and was bu**sh*t. Then, upon thinking about stirring the pot some more with SO I asked him to keep my opinion between him and I. He said OK, and I repeated, him and I.

Today, in a vigorous texting session at work about my johnson, she breaks off and informs me that oldest SS has told her what my opinion was about Tybee and that I should never paint her mom in a bad light to the boys ever again. WTF?? So, she proceeds to tell me that she told her mother I smoke and drink and that is the real reason she does not wish to spend the week with me. I know, I know disgusting habits but walk in my shoes and then see if you are holier than thou. BTW, I have never been sloppy around the boys and smoke in spurts.

She goes on to say I should never speak to her boys disparagingly about her or her mother in confidence, did I ?? So she then goes on to say she chose me at Christmas over her and that she has not seen her mother in a year, (implied 'because of you Kevin and your habits') and that it was a very hard decision. As far as the boy spilling the beans she said he at 12 didn't know what 'in confidence' means and that I should make sure that I know that he knows what I mean before I assume. I replied giving a word for word account of the conversation, KNOWING full well the child KNEW my intentions. So, she has forgot exactly how this subject reared its head, even though it is her focus now and was brought up an hour earlier. I told her that basically she was taking the meat of the conversation from a 12yo that cannot even remember that I told him my words were, 'between you and me'. I also explained to her that this was a raw subject between us and that I didn't step on anyone's toes, disrespected no one, and wanted it to be between him and I because I KNEW she would blow this out of proportion. I then asked her if her mother had any issues with her Ex when he smoked dope and why she did or didn't. I have yet to hear an answer to that one.

I just wanted to express to the boy that I wanted to come, I wanted to spend time with him and the fam, and that I thought the reasons for me not going were bu**sh*t. Word for word I wrote to her earlier that, ' I have been betrayed, deceived, discriminated against, and disrespected'. I have asked for apologies from all parties involved to get speaking rights. I will not utter a word until I get my due!!!

With that being said, PLEASE outline for me in a quick format:

1. Anywhere where I am wrong or handling it wrong, because I cannot change if I am blind to it.

2. Where she is wrong, not really as ammunition, but as validation for how I feel. When I think about this I get SO mad I cannot put logical thought into words and lose the reason for being angry, I just am angry. Hulk smash!!

3. Remedy the situation, no offense but it seems that my word combined with logic and assertive recollect is not enough to overpower the flighty off hand word of a 12yo and his spotty memory combined with wild assumptions on the SO's part.

Kevin The Man

Saddened......

Kevin The Man's blog
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Okay, my two cents:

1) You were out of line when you asked SS12 to keep a secret about his mom between the two of you, and you were out of line to say to him that you thought the decision was bullsh*t. He's not an adult, and he shouldn't be asked by any adults to be put in a situation of having to take sides against his mom. Even if you didn't literally ask him to do that, bringing him into that adult conversation isn't okay. No matter how strongly you disagree with his mom, that should stay between you. The most you should have said was, "I was disappointed about it" if you wanted to convey that you would have liked to be there with them.

2) Your GF is TOTALLY out of line on:

- Implying that the reason you can't come is because you smoke and drink and MIL doesn't approve. Well, if it was such a big deal to her, then your girlfriend shouldn't have gotten involved with someone who smokes and drinks. If she plans to be in a relationship with you, she needs to stand by you and not exclude you. If MIL is so opinionated about it, then GF should have figured out another way for her not to have to deal with it: separate hotel rooms, you agreeing not to smoke or drink around MIL, etc.

- Saying she "chose" you over her mom at Christmas, implying it's a big sacrifice for her to have to split time between the two of you. Why the H is she not integrating you into her life? It would be different if the reason she had to split the time was because you refused to go (which would be crappy of you) -- SHE refused to integrate you. And if she plans to continue separating her "family" from you, well, I'm not sure what she's doing in a relationship with you.

3) Remedying the situation: I would apologize for your remarks to her son, and explain that you understand that was out of line and you won't do it again. But then, I would discuss the other things, in a non-confrontational way, and hope/expect that she would be open to listening to you and having a productive discussion. Note: by "non-confrontational way", I mean saying what you feel in "I" statements (I feel sad when you don't include me, I feel like you don't want me to be a part of your life, I want to be part of the special events and it hurts me when you don't want me there) rather than "you" statements (You did this, you did that, etc. which sound a lot more blaming).

Whew. My two cents turned more into two dollars. Up late with insomnia. Sorry! I'm interested to see what others say about this.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

To be perfectly honest...

It was not a secret between her and I, she knew how I felt. But I voiced my opinions to him stating that I thought the entire situation, in my eyes at the time, was complete bu**sh*t. And now I know that in at least one part of it, it was bu**sh*t. I wasn't taking sides, at least in my mind, I was conveying to the boy that I didn't like the situation because of not being able to be with them/him. Was I still wrong to do that??

Thank you for a rapid response, get sleep, I will be here all night...

Kevin The Man

Kevin the Man

I'm glad you asked in the spirit of open problem-solving. Here's my opinion:

1. I'm with belle in that it wasn't a good idea to take the 12 yo into your confidence. You can be his friend but he shouldn't be yours. By that, I mean it's okay (and necessary) for him to confide in you but it's not cool for you to confide in him. Now he's probably upset and worried about how you're feeling towards him since he broke that confidence. Way too much drama for a kid to handle.

Also, who's paying for the trip? If it's MIL's treat, she has every right to exclude you. That being said, even if you were offering to pay for yourself, a vacation isn't a good time to get to know the MIL and it certainly isn't a good reason to make an enemy of her. My mother dreams of being able to take my daughter and I on a trip, just the three of us. She wouldn't think of inviting FH, not because she doesn't like him (which she kinda doesn't) but because she does want time alone with her daughter and granddaughter. That's a grandmother's right. When and if this ever occurs, FH would back off, knowing that it really isn't about him. He would support our time together graciously.

2. Your GF was out of line in vacillating between having you invited, causing you to take time off work, and then disinviting you (if I've read your posts correctly). She was also out of line in giving you "reasons" from her mother regarding why MIL doesn't want you to come. I suspect these reasons are fabricated to justify MIL's desire to have time with her grandkids without the distraction of having to get along with the new son in-law. GF was also out of line in bringing up the whole "chose you over her" at Christmas thing. It shouldn't have to be an either/or situation.

3. To remedy the situation, ask yourself, "Do I want to be right, or do I want peace?" MIL, just like the skids, is here to stay and has a great deal of power over your GF's happiness regarding your relationship. You'd be wise to bow out, respect her desire to spend time with her family without you, and straighten your out-of-joint nose. This really isn't worth the fight and isn't worth making enemies. Is your goal to go on vacation and prove yourself right? Or is your goal a smooth integration into this family? Regardless of how left out you feel, the right thing to do, in my opinion, would be to apologize to everyone for making a stink about it, wish them a happy vacation, and plan a different venue for getting to know MIL. Pick your battles; this one will only cause you and everyone else grief.

By the way, I'd be pissed too, just to validate your feelings. But that anger comes from the inner child who doesn't want to be left out of a fun time, not from the adult who wants peace in the family.

I would not have said anything to SS unless...

He specifically asked me why I wasn't going. And even then I would have repeated what SO said the reason was-

MIL would like to have some time with her grandsons.

I would have reassured SS that I really would have loved to be there, but encouraged him to enjoy his time with MIL and SO.

I know it's hard but sometimes it's not about being right, and I think it's unfair to burden kids with an unsolicited opinion about something that will affect how they view their grandma, their mom, or effect the event negatively. Because I have seen with my own sons that boys will complain non-stop about their over protective nagging mom, but no one else better do it or the hackles are raised so to speak.

SS is trying to assess who you are to him, and this way of approaching him may also set you up for triangulation tactics as he heads into high school.

I have had talks with SD when she's upset with DH and sometimes have expressed if he could have handled something better, balanced with the fact that all parents are also human and therefore won't do everything perfect every time. I always let her lead that discussion, and I always tell DH what we discussed. SD continues to think she has my confidence b/c DH won't tell her that I told him anything. We figure that keeps the communication open.

SD knows by the way, that I reserve the right to discuss anything with DH, and she still chooses to tell me. Sometimes she will start a conversation with, "You won't tell dad will you?" And I tell her it depends on what she tells me and I make no promises without having heard what she wants to say.

I would also caution about trying to make SO choose between you and MIL. It's nearly the same as asking SS to choose your feelings over his mom's. If they are close, you won't win that one. It's a hell of a tie that binds your SO to MIL, and your SS to SO.

"To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them?" ~Hamlet Act III scene I

1. I am OK...

with it being about the kids but it is not about the time with them. I just see that I have been lied to about the reasons and feel hurt. I am clearly blindsided about confiding in boy because I want a personal relationship with him and it was never to be at any ones expense.

2. Read closer, it is now not about the boys, it is about me smoking maybe five cigarettes a day and drinking like I was on vacation, within reason and always sane.

3. When doesn't justice swing MY way?? The adult in me is looking for someone that wants to be with me, not a convenient bedtime partner. I do not have however, an out of joint nose, I have been wronged on several levels and cannot see the wrong I have been confronted with because of the confusion/static conflicted between the real emotion of one, how I feel for everyone involved, and two the perceived notion than I am being shat upon.

Not sure if that's a reply to my comment but...

I still think that conversation is between you and SO, not SS. He's not mature enough to get it. He also may not understand how to "keep this between us" and I would encourage that he never do that with any parent. I think if you search this site you will find many times that becomes an issue with a bio parent keeping things from a Step parent, as well as an ex and DH/DW not telling their spouse things, or the kids being put in the middle themselves. LOTS of triangulation will ensue if you start that with him now. It's a power that they will already try to gain without help. Just a caution there.

My response isn't a judgment just honestly how I would handle it. And it's a perspective that comes from 5 plus years in this situation, with constant counseling due to SD's borderline issues and her mom's as well. With a SD who has spent her whole life attempting to master the art of triangulation, to the degree that she will try like hell to get me to say something that will validate her anger issues toward her dad, or even myself when she twists it and repeats it later.

As far as MIL, the trip, the reasons, etc, sometimes you must really choose your battles b/c they are not all worth the strife. I understand the emotional attachments to the people, to the situation, and how that colors it all.

By the way...

I noticed no one else mentioned it, but the little detail you mentioned about your initial texting subject likely influenced my response a little though I tried to block it out while typing. It was difficult to be too serious and empathetic when you stated this started out as a conversation about Mr. J.

Kevin

I'll reiterate what was said above: the son is someone you want to have an adult-child relationship with, not a friend-friend relationship with. Confiding in him makes it seem like you're equals, which you shouldn't be. And confiding in him confuses him in regard to where his loyalties should lie. I'm taking a quote from you: you're in the process of making men! You need to do this by modeling respectful behavior toward their mother in their presence. No bad-mouthing, in the interest of building a relationship with them. That's building a relationship with one person based on mutual disrespect of another. Like Sita said, that's called triangulation.

That said, I remember your first post on here: I get a bad vibe about your GF, frankly, and I read in your #3 above that you don't feel very respected by her. I can see that. But I also think that in this instance, you are holding on to your feelings of righteousness so you can be the indignant wronged party. And that's not going to further what you say you want: an equal partnership based on respect. The spirit of forgiveness and generosity is present in every successful, happy relationship: you'll need to figure out if you can bring that spirit to this particular relationship.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Meh

We can just go back to venting about how terrible it all is and be supported in our positions. This isn't just about the vacation is it?

Selkie

It never was. I will take my vacation in Idaho for all I care, I would like to have, for once, a situation where my word is respected, my people are supportive, and I never have to second guess.

I have come to the outright conclusion....

that it is NOT about time with the boys. She has already stated to me that the she was trying to save my feelings. It never was about the boys, it was because she didn't like smoking or drinking and my SO was trying to be kind. Although, the truth is always kinder. Also, I should be able to tell a 12yo that I think a situation is shite and not be hung from the gallows when he betrays the trust I had in him to keep said words between him and I.

Kevin The Man

Even if you're right...

... deleted out because I just realized I'm feeling pissy and taking it out on you. My sincere apologies. I truly hope you find some peace and resolution in this.

Thanks

I am glad to see a bit of honesty out of people in general.

My Thoughts...

I am with the vast majority that the way in which you confronted the SS about it and what was said was maybe not the best approach but it is done and over with and now you know for the future. Never invlove the kids in the adult feelings because they do not see it as we as the adults do.

Your feelings of being hurt about excluded from the trip are totally valid. The are blogs on her all the time about the SM is upset b/c her H or BF are going on trip with the kids without her. I agree with an above poster on why is your SO not trying to integrate you into her family? If MIL does not like drink and smoke all the SO had to do was ask you to have the courtesy to not do it in the presence of MIL. If SO has not issue with the drink and smoke then not doing it in presence of MIL should be suffice as MIL is not your SO rather her daughter is.

I agree that there seems to be a HUGE lack of respect towards you from you SO and her family. I am a very independent female and at 30 years old went from being single, great job, owning my own home to BAM married with a SS and move into my home. I have a great relationship with my H because we RESPECT each other. I am still very independent but I Respect the fact that when I married him he became the head of my household and that is that way it should be. I read other post of yours and I am not sure if you have moved in together yet or not but if you have not and you do then the RESPECT has got to come or it will become a bad situation and you will feel used.

I can tell your frustrations and your willingness to make it work. From what you have posted she is trying to be more of your mother than your partner. Making you and adult bringing support to the table ask for a freakin marshmallow peep???? Give me a break. I can see the having the kids ask because my SS does that even though he knows he can have whatever but not you the other adult in the family.

Stepback and ask yourself do you see things changing? If the answer is no then you have to ask yourself are you willing to spend the rest of your life like that every single day?

Good Luck!

This is the best advice for all entering into any commitment

"Step back and ask yourself do you see things changing? If the answer is no then you have to ask yourself are you willing to spend the rest of your life like that every single day?"

I tell my young friends contemplating marriage (no matter what the circumstances) to consider this when they have spent a great deal of time telling me about major issues in the relationship.

In my opinion, things to not get better or worse just because you get married or commit/move in etc.

Instead in my experience and observations, they amplify. So if the relationship is nurturing, mutually giving, receiving, caring, respectful, devoted, etc, then it will become more so with time.

If it is a struggle, if things bother you a ton and never seem to resolve, I would expect a lot more of the same in time.

StepG beat me to the punch

I also wonder how any of us would feel if our SO came to us and said hey I am going on this great trip but my mom doesnt like you so I am just going to ask you to stay here and let me bond with MY kids and let bond with my kids but not you
ummm for me NO..I would pitch a fit.
I am afraid that would be a deal breaker..
I have to say I probably too wouldnt have put the kid "in the middle" so to speak. but your feelings are perfectly understandable. She is not making the marriage/relationship a priority..
good luck!
"Better a diamond with a flaw than a pebble without one."

I guess it might be me, or perhaps

Perhaps if it was put to me THAT way (hey I am going on this great trip but my mom doesnt like you so I am just going to ask you to stay here and let me bond with MY kids and let bond with my kids but not you.)

I might be put off. But at this point I have had enough strife from my own MIL, who thinks that we are too hard on her precious (not paraphrasing- REALLY that's what she calls SD) and should all tip toe around SD's moods and not try to help her through psychiatric treatment. This from the woman who HATED the way BM controlled DH, which is much the same way SD tries to control us.

I digress.

At this point I am all for MIL having lovely vacations with SD, and DH can join them any time. If he took BD 3 all the better as I would have some nice time alone, alternated with time with my own sons. One on one is important, and solitude a luxury I covet.

Oh- and DH and myself are far beyond a bed partner. I understand not wanting that/that not being enough. If DH didn't take my needs and feelings seriously, I would have a hard time too. But perhaps THAT'S the bigger issue, not the trip or the kids as you said. But that your wife isn't sure where her priorities or loyalties lie. She could have told MIL that this trip was planned with all of you, and if she wasn't comfortable with you or your couple of cigs/drinks then she could plan another trip with the kids later.

After I posted

I thought about the scenario you gave above about your strife with you MIL and you welcome her to take SD and you would be fine if H and BD went along as you would get alone time. Now not your sitation exactly but the fact you and H have been together a while and not new feeling each other out and he run off with his kids or you vice versa. Your relationship is stable with your H. And it is not until the stable relationship happens that trips like Kevin's SO wants to take can happen and all parties be happy.

I agree

With that and think I wrote something to that effect about my perspective being one from five years in etc etc.

BUT I will say that I never really had a problem with worrying about exclusion from the beginning. I was alone and happily so for 5 plus years between exH and DH, and am just not the kind of person to worry that much about exclusion. If DH was to tell me not to go to something b/c BM was there, and they needed to sit together or something akin to what I've heard on this site before, then I would not be a happy camper. If DH took SD's side and refused to acknowledge her mental health issues, or catered to BM's for the sake of "peace" as a good friend of mine on here has to deal with, then I would have a problem with it.

MIL's may try to alienate too, and that may be what this one is up to. BUT...

I think the best strategy is to discuss those feelings with your spouse, not the SK. And I also think the fact that I encourage DH to put SD's needs above mine on many occasions, as well as his mom's insecurities about my place in his and SD's life, inspires him to stand by me out of an appreciation that I am this way. Of course...

I had a very easy act to follow in that his ex could never appreciate or retain any positive attempt he made to put her needs first.

I do also on occasion have to assert my feelings are hurt if he does on the rare occasion take them for granted. I don't fault him that, but have learned that no one is a mind reader and if you don't sincerely try to communicate your feelings directly, no one is responsible for not understanding them. Oh and as a side note- I'm painfully self aware to the degree that I will try like hell to take ownership for any emotional insecurities rather than project them onto his intentionally trampling on them. I really think all this reading on borderline stuff has only improved my abilities there for myself. One quote out of a book about borderline teens really affected me deeply-

Just because you feel manipulated, doesn't mean that is the other person's intent.

And I'm betting that is true more than any of us want to believe when we're hurting. It could also help us get to a resolution and back on track relationally sooner if we can find a way to own our part and let go of preconceived notions of motives.

Don't get me wrong- I'm not preachin this stuff as in I have all the answers. I don't. I still am allowing a 14.5 year old to define my existence to a great degree!

Well..

Yeah, how do I say that without saying, 'I do not wish to play second fiddle to your MIL's retard band'??

Well other than what SG said above...

The other thing I tell my friends who are contemplating moving in/marriage etc is...

Give your SO all you have to give. Continue to nurture your own passions in life as well. If they don't match up to what you're giving, OR if they don't encourage you to continue pursuing your passions (or worse discourage you)

Then get out. But you will go knowing that you gave all you had, were true to yourself, and they were not capable of doing so in return.

One friend of mine did not like that advice at all. She asked what happened when she put all her cards on the table and they were the only ones out there? She didn't want to look vulnerable or like a fool.

I told her I'd rather get hurt giving it all and find out that I was wasting all of me on someone quickly, so I could get out sooner rather than wast tons more of my time trying to safeguard my heart while figuring it out.

Kevin The Man!! Long ...

There's a few issues here. The first of which is that you still feel very wronged about the way the vacation issue was HANDLED. If you hadn't taken time off, if your SO had said, my mom wants to see the boys and I'm not sure this is the right time for you to come, I'm guessing you'd be a little more understanding than what you are now - regardless of the reasons why it's not a good time right now. Does that sound right? If you knew ahead of time, and didn't plan for it, you might not be as angry? What exactly does your SO expect you to do at home while she's away, knowing that this was supposed to be a "family / bonding" vacation. Not a fair position to put you in.

There's also something going on here that needs to be addressed. Your SO telling her mom herr issues with you is also one the underlying stressors of this situation. Whatever your SO said to her mom, influenced her opinion enough to ask her to "just bring the boys". I think that little piece of nagging information is also making this bigger.

I do believe full heartedly that you want to have a relationship with your stepsons. However, IN MY OWN GUESSING OPINION here, I think that deep down, you may have confided in SS to "put out your side of the story"... that is you want to go, but are being blocked from attending. I understand the motive. By doing so, you did somewhat (subconciously intentionally or unintentionally) put out the message that the reasons for you not going with the family are NOT VALID. That's why your wife has an issue. She didn't think it should be up for discussion with a child. I get it both ways. Let me ask you... What did you expect to gain from telling your stepson that? His trust? His understanding that you want to be there? What did you expect him to REALLY DO with that information? Keep it inside his own head? Maybe ask his mom why you weren't going?? You don't have to tell US... but think about what you really thought the next step was going to be for your SS. What did that knowledge do FOR HIM?

This vacation is becoming the focal issue of a lot of problems in your relationship. It's becoming the glaring example of all of the ways you feel slighted. That is what you and your SO need to address. It's not the first time you have felt put on the back burner. Her lack of understanding on this point is selfish. You and her need to discuss that there is more going on here than just this vacation. And then, as others have noted, you need to take a look inside yourself and see if this is the kind of woman you want to be with.

Best of luck. I hope that if you still do take the time off, you do something SPECTACULAR for yourself!!

Upon reflection....

I wanted the young man to know that I wanted to be there with him, and to know that whatever the underlying reasons, I thought the reason I wasn't to come was BS. He is man enough to realize this, I just wonder what compelled him to spill the beans.

Kevin:

1) He is not a MAN. He is 12. Hence, he is not "man enough" to be your buddy.

2) What compelled him to spill the beans? He's a kid! He was conflicted and confused by the fact that a grown man was confiding in him. He loves his mom. Now he probably feels bad twice: bad that he let you down, and bad that he knows he probably created stress between you by telling his mom. And frankly, neither of them is his fault: it's yours for putting a kid in this situation.

See what we've all been saying about this situation? YOU are the adult, and as the adult, it's your responsibility to protect him from having to make these kinds of choices. You need to keep these hurt feelings to yourself and not force a 12 year old to be your confidant. Go find an adult guy friend and dump this on him over a beer instead.

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Kevin

What compelled him to spill the beans is probably that he DOESN'T UNDERSTAND. If he is close to you, he probably also feels this is bullshit. You don't know if you actually ended up confusing that kid, or making him feel bad about his mom or what. He may have been asking his mom for her side so he could see what the reasons were. He may have been asking his mom in the hopes that you would end up going! He may have been telling his mom because he wasn't ready for the responsibility of having a "man to man" chat at his age and didn't know how to respond. For whatever reason, he told his mom. Put yourself in his shoes at 12 years old. 12 is old enough to understand confidences, but not old enough to understand why they are taken. Maybe he didn't think his mom would tell YOU.

Good points Stick!

Kevin, I think this is too much trying to rationalize why your SO told you not to come, and why you chose to pass that onto to SS. And actually, even if your SO didn't specifically tell you NOT to tell anyone including SS about the reason you weren't going on the trip, I would think that a conversation like that between BP/SP would have an implied confidence between the two of you. I don't tell SD everything that DH tells me, and he doesn't tell her either- even if we are mad about it. Especially if we are mad about it. Because it's between us, involves our relationship, and kids don't need to know everything that happens between their parents. I guess what I'm saying is, I think your conversation with SO was what I would consider "parental privilege" info.

I think you could spin into butter trying to figure out the reason that SS didn't keep your confidence, or you could think about how to go forward. I will say again, as the mom of two boys my sons would not stand for anyone telling them not to tell me something, including their own dad. And ditto for me keeping things from him and SM.

As a matter of fact SM and I have had some deep conversations b/c exH and she do not get along a lot of the time, and even though I KNOW she knows she shouldn't tell my exH anything I say to her, and I know I won't tell him anything she says to me, I don't know for sure she wouldn't in a heated moment between them. Therefore I really choose my words carefully so not to upset exH or cross a line (or draw one between) them.

So let me get this straight.

I am wrong because I expressed to SS12 the way that EVERYONE involved knew that I felt, calling it bu**sh*t because as I find out later it really was, it was not the truth. I am also wrong for asking him to keep it to himself because I didn't wish to stir the bucket of Peeps so to speak (read other posts). I am making HIM conflicted?? What?? He knew full well exactly what he was doing.

I have asked for apologies all around and that includes MIL. I fear this may be the end of our relationship because I just do not see my actions as being anything other than me talking to my SS12.

Kev

Let me say this. If SO is not willing to include you or your feelings, MIL is a butt and threatened by you and calls the shots and controls SO, and your speaking your mind to anyone in this family are your problems now....RUN Forrest RUN!!! You have sooooo many cards stacked against you. THis relationship will ALWAYS be controlled or sabotaged by someone. MIL will forever threaten to not do X, if you are present or what have you so that she can have her way. If SO could not stand up to MIL EVERYTIME and set the record straight. You will forever be dealing with this. You are in a relationship where you are expected to be the man, but only when THEY want you to be the man. Like fixing and repairing things and probably financially. Sorry DUDE this one is not gonna get better if SO doesn't wake up and realize that she is involved in double speak here.

I am not going to get into the whole you were right, she was wrong or vice versa. WHY? Because my friend your problems are much greater than that. If SO is not willing to allow you in wholly, then these are all wasted conversations and fights that will continue to surface and cycle through. Ask any of the people on here in your shoes. We have so many SO who want their partner involved but only under THEIR RULES. The partners are expected to give, but keep quiet. Participate but shut up. Do X, Y and Z as long as it does not involve correcting their kid. I'm sure if you peruse the boards you will see this play out over and over. Only the peeps and bucket may be a cell phone or laptop. The vacations are controlled by MILS and BMs. I know you want this relationship to work and I applaud you for trying. BUT you can't want it enough for the both of you and you can't do your part and hers. Everyone owns responsibility for their share of whatever is going on. Sorry.

Anyone can take the easy way out and blame others. BUT it takes a a person of character to take a look at one's self and actions and own responsibility for their part. ~ ME ~ }:-P

I pretty much agree with Princ.

I think there's too much stacked against you in this. My sense is, so do you (SO and MIL). But the reason I've been so adamant is: it's not right to include SS just because you may feel you need an ally.

He is a KID, Kevin. Let me tell you a little story: When I was 13, my dad lost his job. My parents started arguing about money. They started sleeping on separate floors of the house. My dad would tell me what bullsh*t he thought my mom's opinion was. My mom would tell me how horrible she thought my dad was.

I was 13. I wasn't a "man". But by your definition, I was old enough to be confided in by an adult. Apparently, my parents thought so, too. But I was an only child, which meant that I had to hold both of my parents' grief and pain over their relationship inside me as a "confidence". At 13 years old.

I will tell you right now, it was awful. I was so pulled between the two of them, I didn't know what to think. And now that I'm 42, I understand that both of them felt so alone that they each desperately needed an ally. And they both chose me, because I was an only child and they were not the type to go confide in a friend.

It was awful for me. Please, don't do that to your SS. It's not fair to him -- it's an awful feeling to be torn between two adults. Do you get it now??

- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)

Hey Thanks!

I do have a very different take on it just now. You helped me understand from his point of view and that is what I needed.

We spoke today and she says the SS12 cannot remember that I asked in confidence but what did I expect. She says she didn't lie and that an apology would never come, she was trying to spare my feelings. I stated that she DID lie and that the feelings that she was trying to spare were her own because she knew I would be livid. She then apologized for not providing for me the actual reason up front?? Was that an apology for her lying?? I apologized for saying something to Holden about how I feel and then asking him to keep it between us.

If I get my stuff back and get away from her for a bit I am not sure exactly how it would play out but I hope it wakes her up a bit. I am sure she loves me but she seriously has her wires crossed!!

Kevin The Man

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Wanted- full size punching bag with chain hanger.

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