chrismas gift bullshit...
I posted last night, but it never appeared. so here we go again.
SS14 has not contacted dh for several months. In fact in the last two year, with the exception of the 4 months he lived here, we have had minimal contact with him. Per his choice. He moved out in June. Dh has seen him twice-once they met in a public place and in the beginning of September he saw him at a family funeral. That was the last contact. Dh has called, left messages, but ss does not return the calls. So, surprise, out of the blue ss calls friday night. (not a surprise to me as we all know the gift giving occassion is approaching. he did this last year as well-didnt speak or see dh for months and then called around tgiving in prep for xmas).
In the few months that we have not had contact with ss-he has spread rumors that we have a pot farm at our home and that dh offers ss drugs, he has yelled down school hallways that my dd sleeps with all kinds of boys, and just last week walked down the hall giving her the finger. She tries to avoid him at all costs and does not engage in any sort of interaction with him.
So, last night dh approaches me and says he'd like to get ss a gift for xmas-nothing big of course, perhaps an Ipod, because, well, it is the season of giving. I told him I didnt think it was right and he said it would make HIM feel better. I responded that I just didnt quite understand the need to give someone a gift who essentially has no contact with you per their own choice for months on end and treats you so poorly and dh responded with something along the lines of "he's just a little boy". I about died. He is not a little boy-he is 14.5 years old. He does not refer to our dd15 as a little girl, our ds13 as a little boy, or our 10 year old daugher as a little girl. Basically we tabled the discussion at this point.
Ugh. I really really do not want him to get ss a gift. I know that sounds petty. Although to me it is not about being spiteful. This is a kiddo that treats all around him like shit. In a major way. He has problems with lying, stealing, threats of aggression and violence. I could regale you with horror stories that are YEARS old. He does not treat dh well (at all)-basically just kisses up to him when he thinks he might get something out of him-other than that he shits on him. So I likened this to dh buying my sil a gift (who was recently arrested for 14 counts of forgery, theft, identify fraud with dh as the victim). SIL is the way she is because their parents never held them accountable for anything. She thinks she can do anything she wants to people and get away with it. SS thinks the same thing. Dh didnt even bring up the fact that ss has ignored him for months on end.
I think it sends the wrong message to ss-treat me poorly, son and I'll buy an expensive electronic device!-also while you are at it treat your sibs and my wife like crap and I'm ok with that too! I think it benefits noone. I guess if ss received the ipod and taht was the thing that made him turn over a new leaf, then perhaps it would be worthwhile, but we've been doing this too long to know that it will change nothing. He will take his gift, mutter thanks and then not speak to dh again for months.
Money is tight this year for us, probably tighter than ever. I am working extra on call time in order to try and provide a nice xmas for my kids-to get ss a comparable gift to what we are getting the other kids (who have two parents with income to support them and have behaved themselves all year)makes me sort of ill. I also think it sends the wrong message to the rest of our children. I dont care if dh wants to acknowledge ss on xmas-a nice card-with a nice handwritten note saying "hey, lets work on our relationship"-perhaps a Bible, a pic frame with a pic of the two of them, I dont know some sort of token gift that says-even though you are a total shit-I do love you because you are my son-I would be ok with these things.
So my question is whats the best way to approach dh? We are getting along excellently lately. But our money is all joint, I handle the bulk of the money, as dh has spending and memory problems-so he came to me "asking". I feel he thinks I am just being a spiteful ass-i dont really feel that I am, but who knows Maybe I am? What do you all think?
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I agree with you that since
I agree with you that since his behavior does not warrant a big gift, a little sentimental gift is good enough. Or maybe something like tickets to a game for DH and SS to spend some time together?
Btw your DD with DH is 15? And SS is 14?
DD is technically mine. Dh
DD is technically mine. Dh is in the process of adopting her and my ds13. He has been in their lives since they were 1 and 2. Their bio father is deceased. My dh does not drive-he has a brain injury and they wont clear him to drive-we live in a rural area-they can't go anywhere together to spend time one on one. I'd have to drive them and since ss doesnt even acknowledge me-that's just not something Im willing to do at this point.
I have been here before. My
I have been here before. My oldest SD cut herself off from DH when she was 16, no contact, rude letters written detailing all his failings as a father, belittling him as a parent. At first he wanted to pretend nothing happened and buy her gifts like always. But she never came to get them so he ended up just leaving them at her house (she won't answer the door even if she is home) and never hearing a thank you or even if she got them.
So as reality set in he quit trying to make things seem 'normal' and quit buying her gifts at all. He would make an effort to contact her by phone or text to wish her a happy holiday and maybe send a card just to leave the door open to a reconciliation.
Then a few years down the road she started making some contact so we extended our gift giving again to included her. But not in the same way we did for the other kids who follow the rules and make an effort to be a part of our family. Come to find out she just needed us to help her financially and we haven't heard from her again.
But I understand your DH and my own, these are their kids. They don't want to cut them off completely. As long as there is any hope that the situatio may turn around they will extend themselves for these kids. I can't say that I wouldn't be the same with my own bio kids. Until they are truely adults they are still kids and harshly cutting them out would likely only set them down a very dark path for life. At least as teenagers you can still hope for them to mature a bit and see the light.
It sounds to me like maybe a compromise on the gift would be better. I tend to agree that buying a kid who is acting like that an expensive electronic gadget that they want is not a good choice. Maybe something more 'useful' and practical would feel better to you. It's hard to imagine how you would react if things were turned around and it were your own kid that was acting that way. I choose not to push my DH to make any choices that weren't his own. I did not want that on my shoulders. In the end I decided it was only 'stuff' or only money, no matter how tight ours is.
I feel your pain on this but I don't necessarily think you are doing the right thing. It's a bad place to be for sure.
I agree-Im not even saying he
I agree-Im not even saying he should "cut him off". To me, I dont mind, but actually enjoy, buying my kids, dh, my parents or whoever gifts because not only are they my family-but they act like my family. We having loving, reciprocal relationships. SS does not having a loving reciprocal relationship with dh nor anyone for that matter. I feel like he would be buying the gift to 1)deal with any guilt issues he has for ss not living with us 2)to make himself look good to his worthless family who think he is a piece of shit no matter what he does. 3)simply because ss is his son.
My thought is, if you want to work on relationship with your son, then do so. That doesnt mean buying him things to make him love you more or buying him things to help address your feelings, but rather it means actually working on your relationship. How about writing a long heartfelt letter-sharing positive memories and emotions and detailing how you would like things to improve? Make a photo album of positive childhood memories and give that to him? Make an appt for some family therapy? Invite him to Church?
Last year he wanted to buy him a laptop! He did not speak to dh and refused to visit him for months prior to xmas and as soon as ss made that call around t-giving-he wanted to get him a computer! We did compromise and ended up giving him a 100 gift card as well as 100.00 northface jacket. The jacket he took to his bm's the very next weekend and left there. I guess her other son enjoyed his new jacket.
I like the bible idea too,
I like the bible idea too, and gave one to my SD too when she was about 16 and at her worst.
I like to think it helped her!!
A bible with his name
A bible with his name embossed in gold on the front.
I'm sorry, I totally see this
I'm sorry, I totally see this from a different perspective. Are you saying your husband should not buy his bio son a Christmas gift (that he wants to purchase) but should in turn buy your kids, his step kids, gifts instead? I cannot imagine how livid I would be if my son's father's wife was dissuading him from getting our son a Christmas gift because she did not like him.
This is between your husband and his child. I think you should remove yourself from the equation.
I will also mention another thing. BM does the same thing to my oldest SS EVERY YEAR. She never sends him anything but sends the middle SS gifts and $$ on occasion. This makes him hate her even more, and drives the wedge further between the two.
Acutally my dh does not HAVE
Acutally my dh does not HAVE to buy his "stepkids" anything-I make adequate income to do so and I have my deceased husbands social security to buy them things-however since he is adopting the kids they are his children too. Also we have one joint bio between us. This is not an either or situation. It's not that he can either buy his son something or buy his soon to be legally adopted children something.
And I'm not sure where I said I was dissauding dh because I didnt "like" ss. This is not about "liking" someone or not liking him. My dh has minimal contact with ss per ss's choice. Do you think my dh should once again set himself up to feel like shit? Once he buys the expensive gift and ss stops talking to him perhaps you can deal with the fall out? Because i've been the one dealing with it for years. It hurts my heart for dh that ss is NOT attached to him, nor anyone, and never has been. No matter how many ipods he gets the kid its not going to change that. I have not "liked" ss for many years-after he threatened to murder my kid and stole my daughter's panties as well as my own, stole from us, etc, etc, etc-it made it super hard for me to like him. However, he has always receieved gifts a plenty. So this is not about not "liking" him-it's more about trying to teach the kid that you when you dont want a relationship with people, you dont get the benefits of said relationship. If you do want the benefits, well, then you need to put some sort of effort into that relationship. That's life. It is something he needs to figure out NOW as in as soon as possible if he ever hopes to have any sort of normal relationship as an adult.
If you read my whole post, you would also see that I was more than ok with dh getting him a meaningful gift, dh working on their relationship, or acknowledging ss in some sort of way that doesnt attempt to buy his love and affection, but instead addresses the need for them to work on their relationship. My concerns are threefold. My two primary concerns are my dh and my children. While dh may feel good in the moment to buy ss an expensive gift-he will feel like shit later. This is not my first rodeo here. SS will not contact him (until just prior to his bday)again-my inlaws will not decide he's great for buying his son an ipod, and dh will become miserably depressed and not sleep for days. I worry that my and OUR children will also see that gifts are not based on relationships, behaviors, but rather titles. Therefore you are entitled to gifts becasue you are someone's son, brother, mother, etc. My last concern is actually for my skid. I dont care for him, truly I dont, but if he continues down this path of using others and treating them poorly, he has not a shot at a decent life. If I had a preference I would of course rather see him have a good life than a miserable one. He may enjoy an ipod in the moment, but it will just further teach him to treat people poorly and still expect benefits.
I guess I am confused now. Is
I guess I am confused now. Is money tight or do you have adequate money for Christmas? If so, then I don't see the problem with buying SS an IPOD. That is not a huge expense. (Depending on the device.)
Teenagers are by nature self centered, snotty little creatures. It is a weird phase they are in. And 14 is by no means little, but he is definitely not mature enough to be held adult like standards.
Christmas is not the time to punish a child, or to teach the child a lesson. There are 364 other days a year to do that.
Exactly my point. I guess
Exactly my point. I guess you would also have to include those times they might run into each other in public.
buying him an expensive gift while doing nothing to address teh relationship issues in my opinion is inappropriate. Inappropriate for everyone. That being said-ultimately it is my dh's decision no matter what-however he came to me and opened a discussion with me-so I wanted to think out my input and sort out how I feel so I can give him a well thought out, well spoken response.
That is for her husband to
That is for her husband to figure out. If dad doesn't "force visitation" then how can the relationship be fixed? The kid is obviously angry. Maybe if he and dad spent time together the relationship wouldn't be so strained. Bottom line, the onus is on the adult parent to fix things not on a 14 year old angry teen boy. Seriously. How would you feel if you have no relationship with your dad, and then you hear he is adopting his wife's child...and I guess they go to school together? I can't imagine that. Then dad wants to buy his son and IPOD for Christmas and new wife/stepmom says "No". Come on..
There is a lot of double talk from the OP. You can't say SS refuses to visit and then subsequently post "well DH doesn't force visitation". You can't say "money is tight" and then say "I have adequate funds". You can't say "it's not about me liking the kid" and then a paragraph later state you "truly don't care for the kid at all". You can't have it both ways. Just be honest with yourself...
I am not double talking. SS
I am not double talking. SS refuses to visit. Dh doesnt "make" him. How is that "double talk"? He has been invited to visit. He chooses not to come. No double talk involved. Money is tight. Do I personally have the funds to provide for my children? Of course I do. Does that mean money is not tight? Well no it does not mean that-money can be tight but that doesnt mean that I cant provide for my kids without dh's assistance. That's all I am saying. Again no double talk involved.
And no I do not "like" my ss. In fact, I think I would be truly insane to like the kid-but my point was that I have not liked the kid for quite a few years, but he still received gifts. So therefore it has nothing to do with me liking him or not. I dont like him less than I did last year. Again, no double talk at all. I didnt "like" him in April for his bday either, but he got presents then (picked out by me by the way!). So again it apparently has nothing to do with me "liking" him.
I am truly sorry that you do not understand what I am posting. But just because you dont understand it doesnt mean I am "double talking"
As far as dad "fixing" the relationship-you dont know what you are talking about. These problems didnt start last week, last month, or even last year. They are years in the making. We have spent countless time and money and effort on counseling, meds, family vacations, long talks, read tons of parenting books. Dh has spent one on one time with him, has spent family time with, has appealed to him repeatedly about what he can do to make things better, I personally have appealed to the kid probably 100 times over the years to find out what I can change to make things easier, better, or whatnot for him. He has been purchased thousands of dollars of gifts over the years. That's my point-an ipod is meaningless. it will not change anything. It will not create a relationship, will it?
Do you have children? Do you give them everything they want? If you don't why not? Shouldnt you? If they want an ipod I am assuming you'd be trotting to the store to buy one-no matter the circumstance, their behavior, or the nature of your relationship? They dont want anything to do with you? And havent for YEARS? Oh, ok I'm sure that's not a problem-you'll just go out and buy them whatever and think that will fix it? Wow. This is why we have so many problems with kids now a days. No accountability. Act however you like and we will buy you whatever you want. No expectation of proper behavior whatsoever. I'm sorry but I dont operate that way with ANY child.
Ultimately, again it is my dh's decision. It's not make or break to our marriage. But since he broached the subject, I wanted to give it careful consdieration and share my thoughts and opinions.
There is alot of back history here that you know nothing about-I guess that the risk I took by posting on here asking for thoughts. But what I was really asking for was someone to give some input on how not to try and "buy" a kids affections, but rather to come up with a gift or acknowledgment at christmas time for someone that you have a disrupted relationship with?
There is adequate money.
There is adequate money. However, that's not to say that things arent tight-I am just saying it isnt necessary for dh to contribute to his two stepkids if he doesnt want to. But I guess it's all relative as to me, 200.00 is a large expense.
This is not new behavior by any means for ss. This is what he has been like his entire life. The only thing is now he is older and dh does not "force" him to visit. So he doesnt. Dh has sat at the house week after week, thinking he's going to show, because that's what ss and mil told us, only for them not to show.
And this is the first interaction dh has had with him in months-so, no there are not 364 other days to teach him anything. I am also guaranteeing you that it will be the last until bday time rolls around.
Wow. How do your kids feel
Wow. How do your kids feel about being adopted because their dad died?
And will you still get SS benefits for them if they have a new legal father?
(I think I agree with SASM.) I think your issue is because you really, really don't like this kid. You seem to resent everything about him...his existence, the fact his mother doesn't raise him, the fact his father doesn't raise him, everything.
And now that I think about it, how on Earth can it be ok with you, DH, AND A JUDGE that he isn't raising his own damn kid but wants to adopt more!!
Holy shit, I've heard it all today.
What do you mean how do the
What do you mean how do the kids feel being adopted because their dad is dead? Obviously they are on board with it or we would not be proceeding? He is the only father they have ever known.
Why would I not be ok with my dh, who loves my children, adopting my kids? He has cared for them and acted as a father for the past 12 years or so? Whatever arrangments that have been made for ss have nothing to do with the other children. Lots of parents dont raise their kids for various reasons-surely you know that? If ss lived with bm he wouldnt technically be raising the kid either, that's part of what happens when you divorce? Do you really think that if a parent is not personally, hands on raising their child they can absolutely never have nor adopt another child? My dh did raise ss the majority of his life. He stopped raising him when he went to Iraq and got injured. We tried to bring him back in the home and it didnt work -for anyone including ss.
And I happen to have 12 years of back history with this kid. Where I am at now with the kid is not where I was last year, the year before or 10 years ago. To say that I dont want dh to buy him an ipod for xmas simply because I really, really dont like him is just not accurate. And frankly, your comments detract from the advise I was trying to get on what might be a more appropriate gift-one that, you know, focuses on sentiment and building a relationship (since that is what needs to happen here). But shame on me for thinking those things are more important than an electronic device.
You just seem to write about
You just seem to write about your DH like he's an idiot, mentally incapacitated, and a shitty father. I am shocked as hell that you're having him adopt your bios.
Truly, my comment came from a position of sheer shock.
As for a Christmas gift? Get the kid something he wants. It's not the time to find a gift of "sentimental, bonding value." Sometimes, you just get your kid something they want for Christmas, without there needing to be some big, deeper meaning, kwim?
Yeah, I think if you give a kid up you shouldn't get someone else's to adopt another child. Damn, even my local animal shelter doesn't let you do that!! If you relinquish an animal for whatever reason, you are no longer eligible to adopt another animal there. Why is it common sense applies to animals, but not children?!?
ETA: As an adult. Teen parents who adopt out are a different story.
I am sorry if I gave you the
I am sorry if I gave you the idea that my dh was an idiot. I get frustrated with him at times for sure- but he is not an idiot. What he is is someone who risked his life for all of us that we're unwilling to do so and he did pay the price with a head injury.i am shocked as hell that you would refer to someone that became injured while fighting for your freedom as an idiot. He is good dad to my kids. I have posted a few times on here that I've been unhappy with some of his parenting of my/our kids- and each time it has somehow been in relation to ss. But please note I said a few times- out of 12 years. Have I been frustrated with his parenting toward ss- well sure- that's why most of us are on here. In all fairness, my ss is not a normal average kid- he is a definitely special needs and with my dh's limitations ( not idiocy) it made for a very bad combination.
So if ss was still living with bm- would it then be ok if he had more kids? Are you really saying if you do not have physical custody of one of your kids you shouldn't ever have another one? I'm not sure what you are thinking? Do you think dh dumped on the side of the road as an infant? In reality he had full custody and was a single dad of. Ss while he was an infant. The kid lived with us for 8 continuous years- only moving out due to dh's deployment. When dh returned- ss was invited to return but he choose not to and dh didn't feel it was rig to disrupt him if he was happy with his bm. When bm kicked him out he did live with us- it just didn't work out. Mil wanted him- asked to take him on and he wanted to go. At this point dh was willing to give anything a try- we had tried everything we knew to try. This is a kid that has countless years of therapy, meds, dh has had his own therapy. It insults me to the core when someone who doesn't know my situation cts like they do and acts like we have not poured our heart into trying to help this kid. I wish things were different. If I am bitter is is because I loved this kid so much and gave 110 percent for many many years- to no avail. He is a miserable kid, always has been, and nothing dh nor myself nor his mother nor my mil has done has ever changed that. No meds, no therapy nothing has ever changed any of it.
Thanks for insulting me, my disabled husband, and his military service, you can't imagine the pain we've all felt here. My dh is the only father my kids have ever know. And I can't believe that you would deny them that as well all because my ss has problems and we couldn't maintain him here. Hell, we might as well all kill ourselves because eapparentlynif we can't please this kid and maintain him full time in our home than we are just worthless individuals who deserve no life or happiness. Apparently my children deserve no father since ss ain't happy and living here full time. Wow I think I am going to go cry since you have made me feel so worthless and miserable.
Here all I wanted to know where some alternative gifts choices- and what I have found is that dh and myself are truly pieces of shit. Thanks for the enlightenment!
Yes he's been caught looking
Yes he's been caught looking at porn. Not to mention-where's he going to get the money to put songs on the dang thing? I guess dh would have to buy that as well. My point of the whole post was-if you want to acknowledge your kid on xmas-I am ok with that. He is your kid, I understand that that is meaningful to you (even if it isnt to ss). However, theres no point in spending a couple hundred bucks on an ipod. He's done nothing to merit a reward, it will not produce a closer relationship with you, it will not assist him with him mental health or behavioral issues, It will not make him happy for more than a brief second. Instead, I feel it will encourage ss to believe that you can treat people poorly and they will still buy you expensive gifts, it will encourage him to see dh as only valuable to him based on what he will buy him.
I buy my kiddos gifts not just because they are my kids, but because we do enjoy a close, loving, reciprocal relationship. I dont mind buying them gifts because they are awesome students, well behaved (for the most part), and do things to help me around the house. They even acknowledge me and dh on xmas-saving their money to buy us gifts, make us gifts. They like to spend time with us always doing family activities, just hanging out. They are thoughtful, caring human beings.