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Why marriage?

PoisonApples's picture

Is marriage important to you?

Why or why not?

Do you think that a couple who are married have an advantage over couples who are not?

Do you think if a man marries you it means he loves you more than if you weren't married?

If you are married do you think your relationship is superior to relationships where couples are not married?

OK, I've not lived in the US for several years so I'm probably a bit out of touch. I realize it's gotten a lot more religiously fanatic than it used to be - ...shudder at the thought... but I'm still very surprised at the attitude toward marriage that I see from a lot of people posting here.

It seems that a lot of people still see marriage - the ceremony, the ring, etc as the end all be all. There is an underlying (sometimes outright) notion that a relationship isn't 'real' or 'serious' unless there's a marriage certificate involved.

Given that nearly everyone posting here is divorced or is involved with a partner who is divorced I find that attitude surprising.

I really thought that for most people that way of viewing things went out in the 50's.

I have nothing against people getting married if it's important to them but what surprises me is the prevalent attitude that if you aren't married the relationship isn't serious. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The commitment is there or it isn't. Having a ceremony won't change that. I'd think that the people posting here would know that better than anyone.

I've been married and divorced. I've seen friend after friend marry and divorce. My partner is in the middle of a nasty divorce. I know from experience that the actual marriage certificate doesn't mean a thing in terms of actual commitment and willingness to work through relationship problems.

I now see marriage (the ceremony, ring, certificate) as nothing but a facade for other people. When I was younger I had the mistaken belief that it was important but I realize now that I didn't actually think that - I never really thought about it - SOCIETY thought that and I married so that society would see me as married. I didn't actually do it FOR ME. I did it because it was expected. I will NEVER do it again. I have no desire to do it again. I put absolutely NO importance or value on it, in fact if I'm honest I feel a bit sorry for people who pin so much of their hopes on it - especially if it's their 2nd or 3rd one. It seems like they are a bit delusional to be honest. BUT, I recognize that everyone doesn't think like me and if it's important to them then they should, of course, do it.

I guess what bothers me are the references sometimes to things like 'I got the ring', 'he didn't marry her, he married me', etc. I guess I feel bad for the people saying these things because clearly they think the ring is important somehow and that it actually makes their relationship more....'valid'?, real?, enduring?, committed? I don't know what but the point is that I know that there is no truth to that. Divorce is easy and it's done all the time. A ring on your finger doesn't make your relationship any better. Maybe they think it 'proves' something? I really don't get it.

There are couples who will be committed to each other enough to stick it out and work through problems. They will be whether they are married or not. Having a ceremony and a ring won't change their commitment one iota - except perhaps to make them stay together a little bit longer if it all turns sour - which IS NOT a good thing.

I know I'm rambling. I'm thinking this through as I write. It just bothers me when I see someone use the fact that they are married as a put down to people who chose not to marry - as if it somehow means you have a better relationship. It doesn't mean any such thing and I'm surprised that in this day with divorce all around that lots of people don't see that.

Comments

mommylove's picture

"Then again I'm one of those women who could go through life without having a man living under my roof"

Ditto!

Gia's picture

That is not what I learned in my macroeconomics class, lol. The economy is actually starting to get better.

DD10's picture

That was so rude. How do you know they aren't using the wall street journal as part of their examples in teaching? where did she say her knowledge came from a textbook???

PoisonApples's picture

Isn't it illegal for prospective employers to ask about your marital status?

I'm sure it is - or at least it used to be. I used to do a lot of interviewing for a very large corporation in the US.

There is no reason for prospective employers to know anything about your personal situation.

mommylove's picture

Don't feel bad. If you wear your wedding ring then they would've figured it out even withOUT your hyphenated name, but hey, they DID still interview you after they saw your name on the resume, right?

I kept my maiden name because that is my son's last name & I didn't want him to feel left out (H & all his kids, including our BS1 has his last name). However, I do wear my wedding ring.

JJO's picture

To me the only difference is that they can buy a house and do their taxes together. So yes , that is a benefit (and not always).

Other than that ,no there is no difference, marriages come and go just like relationships. Only divorces cost much more , while in breaking up, you just get your stuff out and move on.

However i must admmit that things in the States are far more conservative than in my home country in Europe. Before the wedding i was not as important - i could be discarded. But now ... I dont know... I guess we have a bond(???) . lol!

I am confused's picture

Well I lived with a girl off and on for about 10 years and though I pretty much intended to stay with her, I would never have married her. Why? I wasn't about to stand up in front of my friends and family and community and say "we are together as a team as long as we both shall live" because I wasn't sure it was true.

I honestly feel that there is something to being married.

I think it is the affirmation of getting up in front of your family, your friends, the law, whatever deity you may believe in, and your community and saying "we are together until the end and we will stay together." It should certainly give some peace of mind to those involved.

It's like in business when someone tells me "yeah we're gonna buy 500 of those widgets." Great. Show me a contract or a check or I'll believe it when I see it. When you're talking about marriage the widgets are tomorrow. Yeah, I'll believe it when I see it. When I wake up every day and you're still here, fine. But you haven't COMMITTED to anything. You've only decided to stay again today.

If neither person thinks it's important then I guess it's not. For me I want someone to make that affirmation, that commitment, that we are taking the same name, and swearing before whatever higher power we believe in and our families and our friends and everyone who reads the local paper, that WE ARE COMMITTED.

But that's just me...

PoisonApples's picture

But people can and do commit to each other without a ceremony. How valid and enduring those commitments are depends entirely on the character of the person making the commitment, not how many people witness them making it!

All commitments don't have to be legally binding (which marriage isn't really either since it's so easily dissolved) or witnessed by lots of people or printed up in the newspaper. In fact, I would argue that commitments made FROM THE HEART at a moment appropriate are more genuine than commitments planned months in advance to happen at a particular time and at great expense for the sake of 'proving' it to the world. Sorry, but that's making a SHOW of a commitment for appearances sake, not making a genuine commitment.

It sounds like you are saying that the important thing is that your families, friends and the local paper believe you are committed, as if the the appearance is more important than the commitment itself.

Lets be honest though. We all know that most marriages either end in divorce or with the unhappy couple barely tolerating each other but not really fulfilled in the marriage. Time for the truth folks, how many of you attend a wedding or read about a marriage in the paper and say to yourself 'Oh, now I believe they are really committed to each other and will stay together forever. Before they did this I didn't believe they had any commitment between themselves at all despite what they said but now I know they'll be together always'? I don't. Don't we all secretly wonder with some of them how long it will last? If it's the 3rd or more marriage for one of them don't we all groan a bit?

I just don't think that you need a contract for personal relationships. It's not a business deal like it was back in the day when marriage was invented and money or property was exchanged as part of the deal. Then they needed a contract but we don't anymore. Besides - it's not even legally binding!

I am confused's picture

I don't think there's any question that people can and do commit without a marriage. Maybe they could have all their friends over and swear to God (if they believe in that sort of thing) and their families and everyone they know that they're going to stay together until death do they part and then just not get a marriage license.

To me, that public commitment, that finality of making clear to everyone, not just in your home, that you are a TEAM and intend to stay that way forever, is the final nail in the box.

I have thought many times that I would never leave a woman who I was simply living with, but I did, and I'm not sure if I would have divorced her under the same circumstances. Of course, I never married her in the first place which makes me wonder if deep down I didn't know that if things changed I would leave her. I can't tell you the number of times people said to me "well it's not like you were married". That's the PUBLIC perception of marriage versus unmarried commitment, which is why I personally prefer marriage.

It's a personal thing and nobody can really convince anyone else of their side on something like marriage. It's important to me. May not be to you, but then that's what makes the world a lovely place. Smile

Will you marry me?

DD10's picture

It was a tax thing for us Blum 3 just kidding,maybe

our choice to get married was really spur of the moment and seemed like a good idea at the time.looking back, it was a good idea because we're still together and we're happy. I like the solid feeling a good marriage provides.i like the idea of our family unit fighting the evil forces of wicked BM and i didn't feel that way when i was a girlfriend or live in lover.i don't look down on couples who choose not to marry. it isn't right for everyone. it may not be right for me or for my husband in the future.you never know. life is full of uncertainty and people change.so i commend those who know without a doubt what they want and what they don't want.

Pantera's picture

I no longer think marrying someone is important. I learned my lesson the hard way. You don't need a piece of paper to show commitment. I don't think I will ever marry again (I know, famous last words, lol).

caya506's picture

"I don't dislike marriage but I don't feel it is everything!"

Exactly! I am such a fence straddler, which drives me nuts sometimes, and when it comes to marriage I don't think it is necessary but at the same time, it is something that I would like to experience!

herewegoagain's picture

I couldn't agree mire with you! I remember when my kiddo was born the talk of some of DHs family saying "well, his other kid IS the result of a marriage and this one is NOT...what will HER kis say to truant when she throws that in his face?" to which I replied "oh yes, your parents were together for a full 3yrs because of marriage and mine aré STILL together because of love"...ie up yours!

I lived as a "married couple" w/DH for 10yrs before we married...we looked at it as a "celebration" of 10yrs of making it through against all odds, ie il's, BM, truant, and sil trying to separate us...the ceremony was simple and ONLY w/those friends and family that have supported us and helped us throughout these last 10yrs...and we wrote the script so it was NOT the live happily ever after but "love each other in the here and now, and be the best partners we can be...living in the present and knowing we won't love each other the same everyday doing our best to live in the here and now...accepting the relationship within it's limits"

We do NOT feel any different than we did back 8yrs ago...we celebrated a milestone and "reassured each other" that we've been through alot and w/the help of our great friends and supporters as well as knowing all we have endured, we can someday celebrate another milestone...provided the "within limits" is met... ;-).

Gia's picture

I do not think that married people are "superior" than unmarried couples. However, I do believe that marriage is important because it shows a whole different level of commitment. A couple that only lives together might split at the very first big argument, whereas a married couple, would probably have to think it "through" for a while, and find creative ways to solve the problem because nobody gets divorced from one day to another. I honestly think I would have walked out of my marriage when things got pretty ugly, but being married and knowing that walking out of the house with two suitcases wasn't going to end it, gave me the *time* to think through, and find ways to solve our issues.

I don't give two craps about the ceremony, but I do believe that being legally married is one step "above". I believe that is is as far as any relationship can go to show "love" & commitment for each other.

When you meet someone and you like that person, you "date" for a while, then you get serious and he/she is your girl/boyfriend for a while, then you decided to take it once step further and get engaged, after a while, you get married, that's it, that is as far as you'd go.

I come from a very conservative culture, in which living with a man is not seeing right. I, however, think it is important to live with the person you will be marrying (not my case at all). And if you don't even want to get married, I think it is perfectly fine for two people to live together. I do see my status a little bit different when it comes to steptalk. There are many people here that live with their SO, and have lived for many years, they truly are stepparents and many times they own things together. But there are other people that have a girlfriend or boyfriend that (i think) don't have it as hard as others do, because they can easily walk out of the relationship when things don't get too pretty. I do not say or imply that any unmarried person is beneath me when I answer a post here in steptalk, that's just silly.

Honestly, I love being married. I love that DH showed THAT type of commitment to me and not BM. I love being able to call him 'My husband' and call myself, "his wife"....

I am confused's picture

Ding ding ding ding... we have a winner. Couldn't agree more. The "my wife" thing is HUGE to me.

The WORST thing is when your partner is separated and going through a long drawn out divorce and you are in public and she's "my girlfriend" but everyone knows she's someone ELSE'S wife. Ugh. That was a constant mental beatdown. Like every damned day beatdown. I will never do that again. Come see me when it's final.

caya506's picture

Couldn't have said it better myself! BF and I have talked a lot about getting married and If he asked me to marry him tomorrow I would most definitely say yes. However, it would never be a situation where it's marry me or else. Marriage doesn't tell me that a couple is more committed to each other just because they have a piece of paper. I still like the idea of marriage, although I think all women should sue Disney for raising the bar a little too high!! Smile J/K. But no, really I probably will get married someday, but that is not my main goal. If BF and I are together and we're happy, then that's good enough for me! But boy I tell ya, if FMIL had her way, we'd be married and I'd be popping out another grandchild for her in the next few months!!! LOL

PoisonApples's picture

Thanks for all the replies.

Another point I want to make is that when I talk to divorced people (myself included) and the topic of why they got married in the first place is discussed, most men (and lots of women) say it was because of pressure from the partner, the parents, friends and/or society. I have only ever heard one man say it was because he thought that making a public commitment to the person he married was important to HIM and to be honest, that man is a real flake in a lot of ways.

Marriage was invented as a legally binding contract between families for the exchange of goods, money and daughters. It was not an emotional commitment, it was a business deal - nothing more. It has evolved into this huge industry with all these unrealistic romantic ideals surrounding it. By continuing this are we setting our daughters and sons up for bitter disappointments in the future?

iwishyouwould's picture

Yup.

PoisonApples's picture

Don't get me wrong - I love romance as much as anyone and I totally believe that people should mate for life in monogamous relationships.

I just think that marriage as it is viewed by society in general is totally unrealistic and completely unnecessary in order to have a lifelong commitment to a relationship.

iwishyouwould's picture

Neither I nor H has ever been married or divorced before. SS5 was, very sadly, the product of a high school / teenage fling. IMHO, marriage - the institution of marriage that is - is not, and has never been, about love. Marriage is about security, money, commitment, propogation of the species, leagl and sometimes social standing and rights. Dont get me wrong, I love my husband; im just saying that for eons, love has been the optional part of marriage. In the us, its a cultural thing - the puritans might still be proud of us yet lol. But no, i dont think a piece of paper as you put it makes one couple any better than another; i think proposing and getting married is not so much for the paper, as for the gesture itself - but of course, the gesture cant be hollow; like you said, it cant be a performance for the rest of society. To the rest - maybe im naive, im 22 years old - im sure i am - but my parents have been married for 32 years, H's parents (who are not married, and never intend to marry) have been together for 30 plus years, my grandparents have been together for 50 plus years... it seems paradoxical and naive to say this on this site but i dont believe in divorce. Maybe in this day and age its conservative and old fashioned on our parts, but how H and I were raised... if you marry somebody and you hate them then youre shit outta luck till you work it out, be that tommorow or in ten years or never. I might be naive about all of this, but I hope I'm not; i like to think that H's love for me would outweigh any other shit we go through and vice versa. It has so far, and there has been some shit. Dunno. Just my opinion.

jojo68's picture

I am not married BTW.....

Is marriage important to you? Yes, it is a different level of commitment than just living together...I'm old fashioned and I feel like blended and Gia..I like to be called someone's wfie..being called someone's GF after a few years is kind of embarrassing almost

Why or why not? answered above

Do you think that a couple who are married have an advantage over couples who are not? Yes...whether we like it or not society views us differently. Maybe it is just me but I feel like I am always on the defesive when people ask me when we are getting married.....

Do you think if a man marries you it means he loves you more than if you weren't married? No

If you are married do you think your relationship is superior to relationships where couples are not married? Every situation is different so I can't really answer that even if I was married, but I am not the kind of person who feels superior to anyone.

PoisonApples's picture

I'm bringing this back up because the attitude that relationships only matter if there is a license has come up a few times in the last few days.

Fairy Stepmother's picture

I believe that stating your vows in front of your beloved and your other loved ones is the final building block. To me, personally, it gives a relationship even more strength and power. I've never seen people who choose not to marry share the same commitment, unity and connection. To me, it means we're on the same page, striving towards a common goal. We have chosen to bear witness to each others joy and sadness without judging. We have promised to stand up for and support one another during lean times and fruitful times. We have agreed to raise our children a certain way and run a household with equality. We are a true team with a great sense of communication and respect. We have commited our like for each other, as well as our love.

That is what my marriage means to me.

PoisonApples's picture

I've never seen people who choose not to marry share the same commitment, unity and connection.

I have. Dozens of them.

To me, it means we're on the same page, striving towards a common goal. We have chosen to bear witness to each others joy and sadness without judging. We have promised to stand up for and support one another during lean times and fruitful times. We have agreed to raise our children a certain way and run a household with equality. We are a true team with a great sense of communication and respect. We have commited our like for each other, as well as our love.

Plenty of people have that without the ceremony.

I do understand that it's a personal choice. Some people need the ceremony to 'cement' the commitment?

I don't have a problem with that. For me, the problem is when some of those people who believe the ceremony is important use that same yardstick to judge those of us who don't think it's important - looking at us as if our partnerships are less valid or less committed.

Fairy Stepmother's picture

I respect and value your opinion. I can only speak for what I've experienced in my own life. I'm glad that you've been able to bear witness to so many wonderful relationships surrounding you. You're obviously very blessed.

I've never held a couple's choice of not getting married against them. I don't really care what other couples may choose because it doesn't affect me directly. I've just seen too many "on again, off again" situations that eventually are permanently "off". Could it be because they didn't have that "cement"? I'll never know. The cement didn't hold on my first marriage and I do know why. We didn't belong together but fell for the old "better you than to be alone" thing. Interestingly enough, the relationships I refer to in this paragraph were all within my first husband's side of the family. Hmmmmmmmm, that's food for thought.

Oh, I do remember hearing a marriage expert say once that it was a lot easier to walk away from a situation where they hadn't gotten married than one where they had. She said that being married made the will to fight through the issue stronger because there was more at stake. I have to agree..... again, only because of what I've seen and experienced and my personal beliefs.

Your mileage may vary..... Smile

stormabruin's picture

Is marriage important to you?
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Marriage is important to me

Why or why not?
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It makes me feel like our relationship/partnership is whole. Throughout the 8 years DH & I were boyfriend & girlfriend I knew we would be together, but I didn't feel our relationship was complete because we hadn't taken the final step. It just feels good.

Do you think that a couple who are married have an advantage over couples who are not?
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I think there are certain advantages/disadvantes to both depending on how you look at it. DH's job doesn't provide the opportunity for health insurance. Some employers/insurance would allow me to carry him on my policy as a domestic partner, but mine wouldn't allow me to add him until we were married.

Do you think if a man marries you it means he loves you more than if you weren't married?
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I believe DH loved me as much unmarried as he does married.

If you are married do you think your relationship is superior to relationships where couples are not married?
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I don't believe our relationship is superior to a relationship where a couple is not married. To say that would mean that in the years we spent committed to one another unmarried were inferior to a married couples relationship. I don't believe that to be true at all. Look at all of the married couples with partners who cheat who are still married only because divorce costs too much. It'd be wrong to say that those couples are superior to an unmarried couple who are faithful to each other & honestly happy together.

stormabruin's picture

Certainly, a lot of people view it from the religious aspect as well. I was raised going to church. I don't attend church anymore, but I do believe in God. Those who don't believe in God won't see it the same way, but it is important to some people to follow the religious path in their belief, which is often marriage, & making commitments to one another with God as a witness, & receiving His blessing.

forever2's picture

I had a close friend who was long ago divorced and later fell in love with another man and they lived together as a couple for 15 years. One day, the man was suddenly and tragically killed. I felt bad for my friend and was certainly sympathetic, but I learned a lot about my own opinions when I found myself thinking...at least she didn't lose her husband. I realized that my reaction to someone losing a husband of 15 years was far different than someone losing a boyfriend of 15 years. I am sure my friend had the same attitude as the writer of the original post, and obviously their committment to each other far outlasted most marriages...'til death do us part, literally. Marriage does signify to the world the deepest intended committment. If you don't want to shout it to the world, why not? I have always been very torn about this topic. As a professional,independent woman, my opinions have wavered through the years. I was surpised to realized after my friend's tragedy how I felt deep deep down. She has become an insecure and grumpy woman since her boyfriend's death. If she had lost her husband, I think she would get a lot more sympathy. Now when she says her boyfriend died 4 years ago, everyone basically says, ahhh, that's too bad, time to move on, how about online dating??? As a side note, it is in part a practical matter. After my friend's BF's death, she has dealt with countless lawyers because properties and accounts that they shared aren't recognized as hers in some cases because they were never legally bound. Why go through the hassels of NOT being married if you have found the one?

Lilly's picture

I think in you friends heart and mind, forever 1, she was married to him. They didnt need a piece of paper to tell them that. It was her husband that past away.. Alot of people that have lived with their BF for years, certainly refer to each other as husband and wife.
She could of easily said to anyone, that her husband past away. It not up to anyone that they require a license to use that word. Its the committment.
.

Its all what road you want to take, if you dont get married, you take a chance of complications if one passes away. legal issues

If you do get married, you have the problem of divorce legally. You just cant walk away

Its what ever you a couple want. but either way I think the committment is still their.