Husband/Stepson/Money
I have posted before and want feedback. My DH and I married in our early sixties after 5 years of dating/living together. We both came to the marriage with assets- although he had considerably more than me. In principle, I did not object to signing a prenup becasue I had my own successful business which I started long before I met him.
I have never gotten over the fact that he sprung a heinous prenup on me two weeks before the wedding which I have regretted signing since the moment it was signed. (And yes -I have already consulted with the best lawyers. And yes - it can be contested if we ever get divorced. However, everything involving lawyers is incredibly expensive and in a divorce I have to pay my own legal fees.)
Since our marriage, my business situation has changed dramatically. As a result of an expansion that did not work out as planned I am in terrible debt, and am fighting to stay alive. This is MY problem and my responsibility - not my husband's. What I want from him is to give me a personal sense of security and to know that I will always have a roof over my head and the money to pay for it. He is easily in a financial position to do this. If he dies, the apartment goes to his son and he refuses to give me a life estate. Unfortunately, due to my finances right now, I just can't walk out the door. He says he loves me, but his refusal to give me a sense of security is destroying our marriage.
On the other hand, he is constantly subsidizing his only son's lifestyle. He gives generously to his grandchildren's education funds, and has pretty much paid for his son and daughter in law's lavish home. He hides his financials from me, but I sometimes snoop. In the 8 years that we have been married he has given his son close to 7 figures in gifts and subsidies. He has gifted me NOTHING.
His position is "We were both grown adults when we came into this marriage and it is not my responsibility to take care of you." Is this normal? Is this ethical? What is this marriage about?
I can't imagine being in a
I can't imagine being in a committed relationship with someone who cares so little about me and my well being.
WOW!
Your DH is showing you what you mean to him after death, especially if you will have hardships. Your personal sense of security is obviously of no concern to him. The pre nup two weeks before the wedding is in poor taste and humiliating because it was given to you in the final hour!. You signed under pressure. I find it thouroughly disgusting that upon his death you are uprooted. You shared this home together regardless of who payed what, and then to Will it to his son, who he had just bought a home for, well that would be a kick in the gut for anyone! Again, regardless of pre marital assets etc, the underlying tone is that YOUR standard of living or security after his death is of no concern to HIM. Just wow! Certainly wouldnt give anyone the warm and fuzzies.
Not certain your legal rights
Agreed, that the prenup, if pushed on you two weeks before the wedding is likely voidable, but not certain if the property is seperate property would you still get anything? I would be very worried that his attorney would have "proof" that you were provided the prenup months before the wedding, but did not sign until later.
Many people who marry late in life expect their respective children to inherit their assets. That appears to be what his understanding was.
Earlier you said you had retirement savings and social security. I would get on a wait list now for senior housing.
ETA -- If the prenup can be invalidated, you may end up with more as a widow than in divorce. But you may not want to wait.
Wow. Your 'husband' has
Wow. Your 'husband' has certainly shown you exactly what you mean to him. He may say he loves you but to not care what hardship you may find yourself in after his death...well, that isn't love, not even close. To be honest, it sounds as if you are a convenient companion and nothing more.
Presumably the son is also a 'grown adult' so by DH's reasoning, he's not his responsibiity either.
Are you able to get a free consultation with a lawyer to explain your position and see if there's any way your husband can be made to pay in the event of a divorce?
My husband and I have all our
My husband and I have all our finances separate, but we are each other's beneficiaries and we would take care of each other if it came to that.
Take out a life insurance policy on him
If he would agree to that,
If he would agree to that, that would be great, but one does not just take out a life insurance policy on someone. That someone buys a life insurance policy, on theirself, then names another someone as their beneficiary. She can agree to pay the premiums but he has to agree to take out the policy, and sign, in the first place. And, take the medical exam, if required.
ETA: Not to mention, he can change the beneficiary at any time.
She can own the
She can own the policy so long as he agrees and signs his consent. Then he can not change the beneficiary and all she has to worry about is continuing to make the payments.
That's good to know, as far
That's good to know, as far as the beneficiary, but like you said, she still needs his consent.
I see a lot of people saying (in other threads, not just this one), "Just take out a life insurance policy on him," like it is just that easy, like you can take a life insurance policy on anyone you please and be the beneficiary. I mean, can you imagine?
I'm confused you stated you
I'm confused you stated you had no objection to signing a pre-nup, then state that you regret signing it. Did you not consult a lawyer prior to signing the pre-nup, you were still two weeks out from the wedding. Plenty of time to consult your own lawyer and choose to not sign. Even if that meant you would not get married, the two of you had been together for 5 years prior, so in all that time of living together you never once spoke about finances and what would happen should you marry?
I agree that he's an ass. My
I agree that he's an ass. My DH and I married at around the same ages that you married. But I had a significant more assets than he did. He gave up a promising start up to geographically relocate to my area.
I am very much concerned with my DH's welfare if I predecease him. I cannot imagine not caring how he would live. Yes he could survive but he would be able to have a better life with some of my funds rather than for me to gift it elsewhere.
I of course do not want his worthless spawn to ever get his hands on the money. So it's in a trust that will pay a monthly stipend for DH.
Again your husband is horrible.
This is not usual
Not usual for a marriage anyway. I do hate to say, but it does sound as though you are more a companion with benefits than a wife to him. I would seek immediate legal counsel, even one appointment to see what your options are, and then start planning to care for yourself.
My DH and I leave everything (except some small gifting to our children) we own to the other in the case of our death. At the time of us both dying our estate gets spilt 50/50 - his half to be split between his 3, and my half to be split between my 2.
Thanks for your comments
I know this is hard to believe, but we never talked about money or finances. Even though we were living together, I still kept my own apartment until we actually got married. He generally paid for everything, we shared groceries and travel. The man I feel in love with appeared to be a generous person. He was generous to charity, took care of his sick mother, and there was nothing he wouldn't do for his son. I "assumed" that he would treat me the same way. I agreed to a prenup because I wanted to protect my business. I have proof that the prenup was first presented two weeks before the wedding. When I read it I was shocked. Who was this person???? We argued about it for two weeks and I signed against my better judgement 48 hours prior to the wedding. I threatened to leave him unless he changed it after a year of marriage. He begged me not to and we went to therapy. All of this is history. I didn't listen to the high powered lawyer who told me to move out until it was changed and I am where I am now. I never expected my business to collapse so I don't have a lot of options. On one level we have a good life together so I try to be happy everyday. I do have money saved and I do have family and friends who love me, but I feel constantly rejected. Divorce from him would be a nightmare and he would fight over every penny. I think my best strategy is to try to sort out my business problems, and then get on with my life. Unless he is willing to go for help, I see our future living together but separately.
Even if prenup is thrown out
Unlss you can show the property is maritial property, you would not get half in divorce. If he brought in into marriage, and did not title jointly, he can likely show it to be seperate property.
You can just wait it out till he dies, but even that is not without risk. He can give away property or move to GA, which has neither community proprerty nor dower share.
Agree
"I think my best strategy is to try to sort out my business problems, and then get on with my life."
Strategy
Stash as much money as you can away in a fund that your DH is not aware of. That way you will be in a better position should he pass before you do. Your DH is an ass for not recognizing your full contribution to the marriage in the last 8 years. if you have truly worked by his side and helped to improve the lives of both of you, you deserve something.
When DH and I first got married I was making more than him but I was led to believe that he was making more than he did and that his new-found career had great potential. I supported him for the first few years of our marriage so he could put SD through college. I owned the house he moved into - he didn't bring a stick of furniture or anything else. But he DID do some minor improvements and maintenance.
When we moved into our present home we both paid 1/2 of the initial cost. I spent twice that amount out of my own pocket for improvements, knowing that the house will be DH's if I die, but it was fair considering the work he put into it. If we divorce the house will be divided equally.
But here's the rub: Early in our marriage I was going through a discrimination complaint. The stress was unbearable, and at one point in time I wanted to quit work temporarily (under doctor's orders). My DH had a conniption fit and insisted I go back to work or "they will think you are a nut!" He let me know if needed, he would never support me financially - and he has never supported me emotionally either. He was never one to save money but worked my butt off to save for a nest egg. Much of what he could have saved was given to SD.
Fast forward to today: He has made poor life choices so he is on a limited income. DH is running out of money and refuses to get a part-time job. It appears he thinks I will take up the slack if necessary. Yes, there should be more to marriage but it's a deal breaker for me. Perhaps I am an ass too.
I'm sorry you find yourself
I'm sorry you find yourself in this position, OP - sounds like he pulled a bait and switch on you, leading you to believe he was a generous person who was willing to share his wealth with you as the two of you aged, at least if needed.
I personally couldn't live with a man that mercenary, and who cared so little about my well-being. I'd save up some money and get out if it meant living in a studio apartment in a senior living facility.
To me, pre-nups seem like a statement that someone doesn't trust you and I wouldn't marry someone who demanded one. I'd certainly discuss money and be fine with leaving trusts for their children, etc, but someone who decided I was out for their money and that they needed to protect themselves from me would not be the right fit for me.
I get the idea of leaving money to kids, but not of cutting out spouses entirely. Life is not predictable. Businesses fail, stock markets crash, health goes down the tubes - there are lots of reasons why circumstances change, and in my world, your spouse should be there to help you in need.
I messaged you, please check your inbox...
Just FYI, my DH was FORCED TO PAY ALL OF HIS EX'S LEGAL FEES, AS SHE WAS NOT IN A POSITION TO DO SO, AND SHE GOT A HIGH DOLLAR ATTORNEY AND DID VERY WELL.
life insurance?
Can you take a life insurance policy out on him? Such that when he passes, you will be guaranteed a certain amount? Perhaps even enough to purchase a home?
Further, what did the lawyer say about your current home, owned by your husband? if your husband passes, would you have to vacate immediately, or would you effectively have tenants rights?
At this point, I would do what Curious G suggested. Pretend your are on your own already. Do what you can to escape the debt. If its not your home, do not pay anything towards it. Stop buying gifts. If he wants to eat out, let him pay. If he wants to vacation, let him pay or don't go since you lack the funds.
Also, this concerns me... "Divorce from him would be a nightmare and he would fight over every penny". This doesn't sound like a good person. I understand that later in life marriages look a bit different that starter marriages. But this husband of yours is in a position to make sure you have basic needs met upon his death. He's not struggling financially in any way (unless he's not telling you something).
My DH and I have had a troubled marriage for several years now, and I don't see it getting any better. However, in the event that one of us passes, we do have insurance policies. These are mainly in place to care for our young, minor children. But also to give give each other a financial break should one of us be without the others income. And seriously, most days I don't even like this man, but because I committed to him, and created a family with him, I wouldn't ever leave him nothing. So I'm having a hard time understanding your husband.
Yuck.
If your DH had followed through on his agreement to "work something out", then I would have more faith in him. But he hasn't. It was lip service.
While technically he doesn't have to make arrangements for you after he passes away, it's pretty shitty of him not to.
Like others have said, do what you can to get the life insurance policy. Offer to pay for it - the monthly cost is worth it. And please, do not contribute a single cent to the home you currently share. It's not your home. You can save up some cash once you get through the legal/debt issue with your business.
I agree on the life insurance
I agree on the life insurance idea; however, we do not know OP's husband's age or preexisting conditions. It may be difficult to obtain a policy.
And very expensive.
And very expensive.
I just can’t fathom people telling women in
Marriages that they need to work to be self sufficient and self dependent and not rely or expect their hubby to have their wife’s welfare at heart?? Like wth??
being in a marriage or a defacto relationship is a “PARTNERSHIP,” if you have no interests in working as a partnership to support one another as a team, you have no business moving together with someone and coaxing them on a fake belief of moving in together as a partner for life and basically treat them like a “f*#k buddy”
when i married my husband, he was a snr vp of a national bank and still is, has been on a 6 figure salary for a decade now. I took a few years off to have 2 kids together with my hubby and after 4 yrs chose to start my uni studies again so i could he finished by the time both kids were in fulltime primary school and i could be back in fulltime employment.
Hubby would retire early around that time or few years later. But we discuss things together as best we can and even planned to buy a home together in my country for us and our children together to live in. My future hasn’t been based on just thinking of myself solely. Hubby retiring early because he is in a financial position to do so and be a househusband, me working but we’ll both be working to jointly support one another and our minor kids as hubby’s youngest child with exwife will be an adult by then (another 3.5 yrs to go).
couples plan together their futures and support one another in the good and bad. Not just profit and benefit off them during the good times and go “f*#k it!!” When the shitty bad times come on...
Despite everyone's arguments to and fro about money,
the thing that concerns me most is the attitude of the DH. If this is in fact a direct quote, "We were both grown adults when we came into this marriage and it is not my responsibility to take care of you." -- then I think OP has a lot to worry about.
If this is her DH's attitude, then she needs to be concerned with not just a roof over her head but also what he will do with/to her should she become seriously ill/debilitated. A guy like this won't think twice about tossing her out to the nearest nursing home with the lowest price.
OP, I can tell you this - I understand your fears as I've had them myself. I am completely self-supporting and have enough to live comfortably on on my own throughout my retirement. But I am currently living in my SO's home which is solely in his name, but which was purchased with our retirement in mind.
When we moved here, I told him that I could care less about getting any of his money but I was indeed worried that I would have to leave this house should he predecease me. (I have no doubt that SD would kick me out in a heartbeat once her father passes even though she is much wealthier than I am.) I said that starting all over and moving to a new "home" and neighborhood when I was in my 70s would not be something I'd want to do.
Here's the difference between him and your DH. He completely understood and made out his will so that the house will be solely mine upon his death. He has plenty of other assets that he will be leaving to SD. That said, I still do have concerns that as we age he can always change his will. He has recently become a grandfather and that may change his perspective, as well as potential pressure from SD as the years go by.
I know of an elderly couple where the woman owned the home and the man lived with her (they were not married) They had been living together in the house for about 20 years, and she wanted him to live in the house if something should happen to her. She eventually became very frail and mentally fragile. He took care of her, cooking, cleaning, taking her to appointments, etc. One day her eldest daughter showed up with a lawyer in tow and had the woman sign over everything to her - including the house.
When the old woman died, the daughter gave the man two weeks to get out. Imagine being in your 80s and having that happen to you. He certainly wasn't able to start fighting her eviction. He just quietly got his personal things and moved out. I think it morally constitutes elder abuse, but since there's no law against it, the daughter was within her rights to do so.
I hope there is a special place in hell reserved for that daughter.
Money
This is much more than money - it is your future should your H die before you do.
He needs to provide for you. Simple as that. It sounds like the parasitic DIL is maybe manipulating your H a bit to provide for the SS more than his fair share.
Get your finances straight, get those life insurance policies (my mother got one on me, and I found out by accident!).
From reading your other posts - your H is sneaking behind your back, ie he is committing financial infidelity - and you really need to protect yourself. Lawyer up, and change the pre nup. What ever you need to do - do it. Disengage but stay married if that works.
Normal? No. Selfish? Absolutely.
DH has no interest in an equity life partner. He wants a maid with benefits.
Good luck.